35 replies to this topic

[MichaelPina]

Join the discussion that Rahat and I started here: http://www.red94.net...kets-part/9699/

[Stephen]

I would certainly agree w/getting Howard.
But Michael's point about getting a Rudy Gay as well has merit. Not that particular player,but a second Star.
Cleveland and Orlando tried surrounding their Star w/what they thought were very good role players and their stars ended up believing the y couldn't carry their teams past other multi-star teams.
LA,Boston and Miami went w/adding other stars to their star and have had repeated trips to Finals and Titles(LA 2,Boston 1,Miami w/still dominant Shaq 1).
Should the Rockets get Dwight it would be imperative they add another Star-either thru one of the kids exploding,Parsons,Morris,Motie,Dragic-or via trade or free Agency.

[Rahat Huq]

Yeah, I agree. Like I said in the other thread, Rudy Gay by himself - no thanks. But if it's in combination with Dwight, I'd do it. Not necessarily because it would make us better (I think there might be better ways to spend that money), but for the psychological aspect. Howard would be much more likely to stay if we had Gay.

[blakecouey]

I would certainly agree w/getting Howard.
But Michael's point about getting a Rudy Gay as well has merit. Not that particular player,but a second Star.
Cleveland and Orlando tried surrounding their Star w/what they thought were very good role players and their stars ended up believing the y couldn't carry their teams past other multi-star teams.
LA,Boston and Miami went w/adding other stars to their star and have had repeated trips to Finals and Titles(LA 2,Boston 1,Miami w/still dominant Shaq 1).
Should the Rockets get Dwight it would be imperative they add another Star-either thru one of the kids exploding,Parsons,Morris,Motie,Dragic-or via trade or free Agency.

I think we risk too much if we try to wait and hope for one of the kids to be the second star. For that reason is rather give up some of them to attain a current star, it may cost more but it gives a greater possibility of retaining dwight. The longer I think about it though the less I want that second to be Gay, I guess it all depends on whose available though.

[amacbrooks12]

first off i would like to say that i obviously agree on trying to get dwight howard , but we also obviously need to have all stars or all star leveled players around him so he would stay . anyways since nobody else read my comment in the "rudy gay" post , i will repeat my suggestion and statement .. We dont even need rudy gay or any other shooting guard or small foward thats CLOSE to an allstar ( you guys talked about the possibility of getting eric gordon as well ) , when we have kevin martin who averages 5 more points than gay does in a good season ( he averaged 24 ppg last year ) . i also dont know why so many people want to trade kmart just because he had 1 bad year due to injuries and a new offense . kevin martin can get his shot off whenever he wants , everyone keeps saying we need a guy who can create his own shot .. well hello we have a guy like that . he is such a great scorer that even when he has a terrible season like this season , he still averaged 17 points . i rather pair up martin with dragic than dragic and lee anyday because i highly doubt courtney lee will ever be an elite scorer the way martin is . my point is that i still think martin can easily be a 25 ppg scorer and i still think he can really help this team .

[blakecouey]

first off i would like to say that i obviously agree on trying to get dwight howard , but we also obviously need to have all stars or all star leveled players around him so he would stay . anyways since nobody else read my comment in the "rudy gay" post , i will repeat my suggestion and statement .. We dont even need rudy gay or any other shooting guard or small foward thats CLOSE to an allstar ( you guys talked about the possibility of getting eric gordon as well ) , when we have kevin martin who averages 5 more points than gay does in a good season ( he averaged 24 ppg last year ) . i also dont know why so many people want to trade kmart just because he had 1 bad year due to injuries and a new offense . kevin martin can get his shot off whenever he wants , everyone keeps saying we need a guy who can create his own shot .. well hello we have a guy like that . he is such a great scorer that even when he has a terrible season like this season , he still averaged 17 points . i rather pair up martin with dragic than dragic and lee anyday because i highly doubt courtney lee will ever be an elite scorer the way martin is . my point is that i still think martin can easily be a 25 ppg scorer and i still think he can really help this team .

KMart has yet to have a year averaging over 25ppg, he's been close though. Another reason is because Martin is getting older, and continuing to be unable to play full seasons due to injury issues. Also, Martin saw a decrease in the amount of ppg this year primarily because he wasn't getting to the line nearly as often as in years past-this is something that can win/lose games in the end(this year it lost them). Also for the amount of money Martin will be paid next year we could significantly upgrade. In addition, Martin had those early season issues because of being nearly traded, which never seemed to be handled and I doubt are any better at this point. Either way, we will see what happens in the next few weeks/months.

[NorEastern]

I have extreme misgivings about acquiring Howard for all of the usual reasons. Do the Magic even have a GM in place? If not, or if he is a weak GM then I do not see any possibility of them trading Howard. But with his antics last season, Howard's value will surely have dropped.

A question. Would it be more advisable to trade for Gasol and Josh Smith? The Lakers have to be looking to dump salary ($86 million in luxury tax in 2014-2015 if they resign Bynum) and Smith will be a UFA next summer and has stated he wants to be out of Atlanta. The price for Gasol and Smith might be approximately equal to Howard's. And you probably would not have to take back much salary. Resign Dragic, Lee, Camby, PPat, trade Martin as an expiring at the trade deadline, D-Mo, Parsons and Bud/Morris might make a fine team. Of course you would have to fill the backup roles at SG and PG.

[NorEastern]

Oh - the trades - Lowry and Scola for Gasol. The 14th, 16th, Dallas's protected first round pick, Morris and Dally for Smith.

[amacbrooks12]

NorEastern , im 100% with you on josh smith . i would love the rockets to try and aquire him because he is a great player and would certainly be an upgrade over scola . ( even though josh smith takes alot of ill advised shots ) anyways i disagree with pau gasol though . i still think he is too old , not consistant , and cant be relied on . Luis Scola is better than Gasol , and has so much more skill than Gasol as well . the only reason why Gasol is actually more valuable is because of his height , which is why some guys are still in love with the idea of getting him . i think we should still trade scola with lowry but to try and aquire someone else . ( i cant think of any good centers that we can trade for besides howard )

[amacbrooks12]

btw if not josh smith , how about demarcus cousins ? i just know he will be something special in this league real soon . but will the kings trade him even if we make a offer they cant refuse ?

[NorEastern]

NorEastern , im 100% with you on josh smith . i would love the rockets to try and aquire him because he is a great player and would certainly be an upgrade over scola . ( even though josh smith takes alot of ill advised shots ) anyways i disagree with pau gasol though . i still think he is too old , not consistant , and cant be relied on . Luis Scola is better than Gasol , and has so much more skill than Gasol as well . the only reason why Gasol is actually more valuable is because of his height , which is why some guys are still in love with the idea of getting him . i think we should still trade scola with lowry but to try and aquire someone else . ( i cant think of any good centers that we can trade for besides howard )

I understand that many smart people agree with your assessment of Gasol. But the guy was a WC all star for 3 out of the last 4 years. Magic said he is one of the 4 best centers in the NBA. And he earned 2 rings with the Lakers. He was not a 4th option. It was Gasol, Kobe and Odom doing all of the heavy lifting. He has seen some decline in his production the last couple of years. But that is the roster miss match the Lakers have fielded the last 2 years. I could continue but ...

I am totally good with your opinion. We can agree to disagree.

[blakecouey]

I understand that many smart people agree with your assessment of Gasol. But the guy was a WC all star for 3 out of the last 4 years. Magic said he is one of the 4 best centers in the NBA. And he earned 2 rings with the Lakers. He was not a 4th option. It was Gasol, Kobe and Odom doing all of the heavy lifting. He has seen some decline in his production the last couple of years. But that is the roster miss match the Lakers have fielded the last 2 years. I could continue but ...

I am totally good with your opinion. We can agree to disagree.

Ive said my piece about Gasol on other threads, so I wont get into it much. the only thing I disagree with that you said is he has had production decline in the last few years. Out of PTS/REB/AST/TO's Gasol increased in all but Points and Turnovers this past year over the last. He also dropped slightly in FG/FT percentages but that's assumed with the drop in points. I have no doubt he will decline soon, but I dont see anything that makes me agree with him already declining for any reasons other than being a lesser option than others on his team.

[NorEastern]

Ive said my piece about Gasol on other threads, so I wont get into it much. the only thing I disagree with that you said is he has had production decline in the last few years. Out of PTS/REB/AST/TO's Gasol increased in all but Points and Turnovers this past year over the last. He also dropped slightly in FG/FT percentages but that's assumed with the drop in points. I have no doubt he will decline soon, but I dont see anything that makes me agree with him already declining for any reasons other than being a lesser option than others on his team.

Total agreement here. You probably understand the horrendous spacing issues for Gasol's game when Bynum is on the court.

I think the way he is holding up he might just go into a TD type decline and be good for the next 4 years.

[amacbrooks12]

NorEastern , you just said the key word so many times . Yes he WAS an all star 3 out of the last 4 years , yes he WAS one of the best 4 centers in the league , and yes he WAS a great playoff performer that helped bring two more championships to the lakers organization , but you cant keep living in the past . because in that case we should just trade for tracy mcgrady and sign allen iverson . pau gasol is not what he used to be , hes old and soft , it happens . i , respectfully , disagree with you wanting to aquire pau gasol when we can get someone so much better for kyle lowry AND luis scola .

[ChinaConor]

I would certainly agree w/getting Howard. But Michael's point about getting a Rudy Gay as well has merit. Not that particular player,but a second Star. Cleveland and Orlando tried surrounding their Star w/what they thought were very good role players and their stars ended up believing the y couldn't carry their teams past other multi-star teams. LA,Boston and Miami went w/adding other stars to their star and have had repeated trips to Finals and Titles(LA 2,Boston 1,Miami w/still dominant Shaq 1). Should the Rockets get Dwight it would be imperative they add another Star-either thru one of the kids exploding,Parsons,Morris,Motie,Dragic-or via trade or free Agency.

I think that the problem is that Gay is not really an All-Star or a star. Every recent champion has had two or three players better than Gay (Duncan-Ginobili-Parker, Billups-Hamilton-Wallace, Kobe-Shaq, Kobe-Gasol, Shaq-Wade, Dirk-Chandler, Garnett-Pierce, and whoever wins this season). So Morely needs to look to acquire a better player, maybe even a significantly better player than Gay.

Unless Morely is able to make some trades that most third party observers think are onsided, I think it would be best for the Rockets to flip some of their better players and roll the dice on the draft.

[JarredAllen]

Why are we only focusing on these big name players, while at the same time wanting to give up what makes the Rockets a current decent, but not great team? We have alot of depth and by going after a stud we would most certainly have to give up many key players to our overall success. While it would be awesome to aquire Dwight Howard, how much would we have to give up in regards to other player talent and salary? If you haven't noticed, the Magic have many quality players and were unable to win a championship or make it to the finals. I am all for trading Lowry and Kmart, along with scola, but we have to make sure we have depth to back up their departure. I would rather have the rockets go after adequate players such as Cousins (C need) or Nicholas Batum (SF need) while they are young cheap and would require less money committment if we signed them to an extension. There are many other quality players out there that can consistantly drop 15 to 25 on a given night, given the opportunity, and fill the needs that the rockets require. Rockets enjoy playing with a deep bench because it gives time for players to recover. To change this would mean changing their philosophy and in my opinion hurt the team. I am not oppossed to keeping Dalembert and teaching him some offense as he could be a consistant double double guy with some gym time.

Lastly, let's discuss some other players that will be free agents or would likely be trade bait via the draft or teams looking to clear cap space.

Personally Dragic as a starter is a 20 Point 10 Assist PG if given the whole season. He's aggressive and it seems as if he has something to prove. Lowry Hustles, but seems to lack that killer mentality and athleticism that we needs in the 4th. Courtney Lee would make a great starter at SG as he would add some defense. He also demostrated his potential in Orlando and coming off the bench for us. Parsons could be great and Morris looks deadly, but confused when on the floor. let them put it together and we have star power. Scola is Scola and Patterson, when healthy is a freaking springboard of rebounds and scoring.

[Rahat Huq]

Why are we only focusing on these big name players, while at the same time wanting to give up what makes the Rockets a current decent, but not great team? We have alot of depth and by going after a stud we would most certainly have to give up many key players to our overall success. While it would be awesome to aquire Dwight Howard, how much would we have to give up in regards to other player talent and salary? If you haven't noticed, the Magic have many quality players and were unable to win a championship or make it to the finals. I am all for trading Lowry and Kmart, along with scola, but we have to make sure we have depth to back up their departure. I would rather have the rockets go after adequate players such as Cousins (C need) or Nicholas Batum (SF need) while they are young cheap and would require less money committment if we signed them to an extension. There are many other quality players out there that can consistantly drop 15 to 25 on a given night, given the opportunity, and fill the needs that the rockets require. Rockets enjoy playing with a deep bench because it gives time for players to recover. To change this would mean changing their philosophy and in my opinion hurt the team. I am not oppossed to keeping Dalembert and teaching him some offense as he could be a consistant double double guy with some gym time.

1. Daryl Morey has shown in the past few years that he can put together deep teams with quality role players in his sleep. It's getting the superstar that's the hard part. If getting Dwight ravishes the cupboard, I have full faith that it will quickly and easily be replenished as proven by Morey's track record.

2. While you cite Cousins and Batum as examples of "adequate players", they're more unattainable than even Dwight. Those guys' teams aren't parting ways with them.

[blakecouey]

1. Daryl Morey has shown in the past few years that he can put together deep teams with quality role players in his sleep. It's getting the superstar that's the hard part. If getting Dwight ravishes the cupboard, I have full faith that it will quickly and easily be replenished as proven by Morey's track record.

2. While you cite Cousins and Batum as examples of "adequate players", they're more unattainable than even Dwight. Those guys' teams aren't parting ways with them.

Agreed with #1 for sure, although most of us would admit there are some players that might 'hurt' to lose I still have no doubt they could be replaced with ease with Morey as our GM. As far as #2 goes, Im not sure Cousins is unattainable, but he certainly seems uncoachable and has his attitude issues(sad considering his talent and potential). Batum on the other hand has been rumored to be untouchable as you mentioned-nor is SF a position I see worthy of dropping as much into a trade to improve on as it would take for most upper level guys, SG/PF/C are bigger needs by far.

[amacbrooks12]

totally agree with blake , our biggest needs are SG / PF / C . Courtney Lee hasnt convinced me that he can be a consistant full time starter , especially for 82 games . Dont get me wrong he is a good player but he is at best a guy who belongs on the bench to bring instant offense into a game ( just like how moe williams was for the clippers ) . Which is why i say we risk the chance and sign eric gordon even with his history of injuries . As for the Center position we obviously must try and go for Dwight Howard , but as for the PF position i have one guy who i think would fit perfectly with the rockets , especially if we aquire Dwight . His name is Ersan Ilyasova , this guy has proven he can consistantly put points on the board and that he has improved his game to a whole different level . NorEastern stated that Pau Gasol's performance and impact was brought down due to bad spacing because of Bynum . Well IF we aquire Dwight Howard , Ilyasova wont be bothered one bit because he has the ability to space the floor due to his lethal three point shooting . This kid is only going to get better and i honestly would take him over Scola anyday . what you guys think ?