23 replies to this topic

[MichaelPina]

Here's the second part of my "necessity for change" series, detailing a possible trade scenario that would bring both Dwight Howard and Rudy Gay to Houston.

Would love to hear what everybody thinks.

http://www.red94.net...ht-howard/9693/

[Stephen]

1)Rudy Gay. Why bother?
I just don't see the fascination with him. He's only averaged 20ppg ONCE in his career,a whopping 20.1ppg his second season.He's NEVER averaged 20 points Per 36 minutes. He's a mediocre 3pt shooter at best. He's never averaged 3 assists a game,so he's no playmaker for his teammates.he does rebound well,but no one has ever raved about his defense.
He's just another scorer in a League full of them who unlike the rest is getting a Max Contract.
He's had 6 years in the League,what he is is what he is.

And for a fun comparison,Gay's rookie season vs Parsons':
Gay.........12.4PER...27.0 minutes/game...10.8 points....422%/.364% on threes(his second highest career%)...4.5 rebounds...1.2 assists
Parsons...13.3PER...28.6 minutes/game.....9.5points.....452%/.337% on threes(.370% in last half of season)...4.8 rebounds....2.1 assists
Yeah,I can see why you'd want to trade Parsons for Gay

2)Howard. I'd love for the Rockets to acquire him. Even if he made it clear he wasn't staying,nothing to stop Rockets from trading him themselves.
That said,Orlando is also going to want to dump one of their bad contracts,either Turkoglu or Jason Richardson.
The Rockets don't have much left after the proposed Gay trade,perhaps Dalembert for Jason Richardson.

BTW,Dalembert was signed under the new CBA and thus the Rockets(and only the Rockets) can "stretch" the buyout. They can stretch it by twice the length remaining plus 1 yr. In other words the Rockets could buy-out Dalembert before July 8 and stretch his Cap hit to just $500,000 each of next three seasons.

[Ostrow]

I'm not sure if Gay is the answer but people like him because he can do one thing no Rocket can. Create his own shot. As good as Lowry and Dragic were this year, at the end of games when we needed a bucket we had no one to go to. Martin never has been great at it, and is even less now that they took away his ability to draw fouls on every play. To compare their rookie years is not all that fair. I like a lot of what Parsons does but his game was way more NBA ready than Gay's was. The Rockets were a much better this year than the Grizzlies were in Gay's first year as well. And he guarded some guys very well. The way I look at it is if you don't hear they are a bad defender they are good enough. He was on a good defensive team (with no shot blockers) so that makes me believe he was at least above average. It really look like the Grizzlies want to get rid of him and I think he would be worth Martin, Bud, and one of the first rounders (or Morris). Then we'd still have Pat, Lowry, 1 or 2 first rounders or Morris, Scola, Dalembert's opt-outable contract which includes a lot of what people are saying we would deal for D12.

[Ostrow]

And I'm an idiot. I didn't read part one before I wrote this but looks like our deals are pretty much the same. I was going with the Grizzlies wanting to deal Gay a little more than you did. But you swap the SF and they are pretty much identical

[Alituro]

This would be the quickest possible route to success, but loaded with risk and dependent on a remarkable alignment of the stars. The risk being that if you bite the bullet on Gay, and ORL doesn't bite, then your stuck (once again) with a 2nd option player on a max contract and no 1st option to pair him with. What do we do then? We're back at mediocre for an indefinite period. Aren't there similar 2nd option players out there to be had for a more reasonable price? Batum? Granger? Iggy? Seeing as how the end result is to get Howard and it will be done without his input (theoretically) via trade, why does the enticing piece need to be in place first? Howard's milkshake will bring ALL the boys to the yard, and if after you're able to satisfy him with pieces he approves of, you may have him for more than just 1 year.

[Stephen]

I get the big appeal in Rudy Gay is that he can get his own shot.
So why doesn't he?
He seems remarkably content to get his 18-20 points and call it a game.

[NorEastern]

a 2013 top 10 protected first round pick

Sorry we cannot trade the 2013 pick because our pick belongs to Brooklyn.

[Ostrow]

The Grizzlies are a more post oriented team. But at the end of games the ball went to Gay to create a shot.

[MichaelPina]

Hi NorEaster. Pretty sure Houston does in fact have their 2013 first round pick. At least according to Draft Express. http://www.draftexpr...ransactions.php

[Stephen]

The 2013 can't be traded because it could still go to NJ as part of the Williams trade.
Until the Rockets send NJ a non-Lottery First,future Rocket Firsts cannot be traded until the Draft order is known,thru 2016.
For example,the Rockets cannot trade the 2013 if it's out of the Lottery as it then goes to NJ. If it is a Lottery pick the Rockets could trade it,but only after the season ends and they know it's a Lottery pick. Until NJ gets it,the same holds true for 2014,2015 and 2016.
There is one exception,the Rockets could trade the 2013 w/the provision it had to be from 1-14(or say 6-14) thru 2016 and then no conditions after,

[ChinaConor]

Getting Howard is a great idea if Orlando is going to trade him incredibly cheaply. But I think your offer is pretty weak, especially since they have to absorb the Scola contract and none of the three picks are high.

Here's a question I would like to ask the community. How long should Morely pursue a Howard deal this summer?

The reason I ask is that the team needs to move or make a decision on more than half the roster. (trading Martin before his free agency, trading Lowry or resigning Dragic, trading Budinger while he's still cheap, trading Dalembert, Camby and Lee free agencies) And making any trades would probably be best done before or during the draft. So if Morely holds out for Howard, but doesn't acquire him the opportunity cost could be very high.

[Ostrow]

The reason Scola is involved is because of salary cap issues. The Rockets don't have a lot of high paid players to include in the trade that would take in Howard's 18 mil? (not sure if that's the exact number, but something around there) and Davis (6ish) or Hedo (10+) or J-Rich (6ish) so he has to be involved for the Magic to dump their bad contracts.

[ChinaConor]

I realize that Scola is involved because of salary cap issues. But Scola's contract is also bad. It's longer than Turkolou's and will be over 10 million for each of the last two years. I don't think Pina's offer is better than a year of Howard before he walks and would think it would be easy for other teams to top it.

[blakecouey]

We have flexibility that allows us numerous trade pieces to make a deal work. Not to mention that we were rumored to have had an acceptable trade in place that was denied because of Howard signing the ETO, he doesn't have that luxury anymore, now its not his decision its the GMs. It will depend on the direction Orlando's new gm wants to go though, he may not like the deal Otis Smith liked.

[Rahat Huq]

I can't see there being any way that they take back Scola unless they have another deal in place to move him along to another team.

That K is the definition of a poison pill for a team trying to rebuild.

[Stephen]

For discussions sake.
Martin($11.5mil),Lowry($5.75mil),Dalembert($7mil,$1.5mil buyout by July 8) total some $24.25mil+ in contracts.
More than enough to match Dwight and another Orlando contract(Turkoglu,J Richardson).
If the deal was done before the Draft,it could even be a three-way(or two separate trades) w/Martin going to Minn and Webster($600,000 buyout),Miller($800,000 buyout),the #18 going to Orlando.

Include cheap young talent(some combo of Bud,Morris,Patterson,Motie),the rights to Llull,the #14,the owed Dallas pick and swapping the #16 for the Orlando #19.

[ChinaConor]

For discussions sake. Martin($11.5mil),Lowry($5.75mil),Dalembert($7mil,$1.5mil buyout by July 8) total some $24.25mil+ in contracts. More than enough to match Dwight and another Orlando contract(Turkoglu,J Richardson). If the deal was done before the Draft,it could even be a three-way(or two separate trades) w/Martin going to Minn and Webster($600,000 buyout),Miller($800,000 buyout),the #18 going to Orlando. Include cheap young talent(some combo of Bud,Morris,Patterson,Motie),the rights to Llull,the #14,the owed Dallas pick and swapping the #16 for the Orlando #19.

This is something that Orlando might consider. From Hoopshype salary page it looks like Orlando would save more than 10 million next year. They'd add two first round picks this year and another later. And they'd get some young players who would at least be intriguing. And given Lowry is much better than Nelson was last year, they might still make the playoffs. I would assume that they would want Morris and Motie instead of Patterson and Budinger. And maybe they would demand Parsons and Motie instead.

[ChinaConor]

We have flexibility that allows us numerous trade pieces to make a deal work. Not to mention that we were rumored to have had an acceptable trade in place that was denied because of Howard signing the ETO, he doesn't have that luxury anymore, now its not his decision its the GMs. It will depend on the direction Orlando's new gm wants to go though, he may not like the deal Otis Smith liked.

I agree. I just think that this proposal is really bad for Orlando. But we could add a lot more and remove Scola to make it palatable.

[ChinaConor]

If Morely can't acquire Howard by draft day, should he move on and make other deals. The draft seems like the best time to trade Lowry, Martin, Budinger and Dalembert so that Morely can pick the players he wants?

[JarredAllen]

My concern would be that we get rid of too many players, draft more rookies and let them ride the pine again. It would be great to grab a bunch of draft talent, but with the way the Rockets use their Rookies, I would first, hate to be a rookies drafted by them and second, know that the Rockets would only send their rookie picks put on the D League squad to play other washed up scrubs and not given the chance to get better, improve and show potential against the games elite in the NBA. What Parsons did was rare and I can't see that happening again. We need to take chances with playing rookies in the NBA like other NBA teams or stay mediocre forever and continue to piss off players who could have been great, but never get a chance in the pros. Just look how Hill responded when given the chance in LA! He showed more potential in those few games than years in Houston because LA empowers players to excel while the Rockets seem to want to limit and hide players talent. Basketball isn't like Baseball, therefore we should quit shipping our players off to the "Minor Leagues" and start giving them a chance. The air surrounding the Rockets is beginning to stink as there is something wrong with management, coaching or players who perform poorly only to be traded away from Houston and shine when given the opportunity to play at the NBA level.