37 replies to this topic

[Rahat Huq]

Huq,

I hate to say it but after thinking about it for quite some time, being bad to me is not the solution. It is very rare for teams to succeed when they decide to blow up their team, start over, and hope for a miracle(s) in the draft. I know having high draft picks give you flexibility in the fact they are very nice trade assets and hey who knows you may end up with the next superstar, but all too many times, you just end up being terrible for the next decade even if you get a very nice player just because the players around him suck so much. Points in my favor would be the Stevie Franchise years, the Clippers before C. Paul went there, Golden State, Washington just to name a few scenarios. Points in your favor would be the Yao Ming years had injuries not set it or Orlando getting D. Howard, Miami getting D. Wade and Cleveland getting L. James.

But to me, I shudder to think about blowing this team up and hoping eventually we get lucky in the draft because luck is a fickle beast. I'd rather watch a competitive team year in and year out than get ran over for the next decade, but hey, maybe you're right and sucking for a few years would work. It could be those other teams I mentioned were just mismanaged and they picked the wrong guys in the draft. Maybe if Morey had better draft selections, he could work his magic and bring us to the mountaintop that way.

Finally, maybe I'm just too scared and cynical to think that strategy is the right way to go, which is always a possibility.

You have a point, though, like you said, my counter would be that those teams are all mismanaged.

But I think ultimately, it's moot. The Rockets won't tank. While nothing is likely, it almost seems likely that they end up with Gasol. We might as well discuss how to construct a team around him for the next 2 years.

[blakecouey]

Well to everyone who hoped for Eric Gordon to be had in free agency, there is no way the Hornets let him go now that they're assured of landing Anthony Davis. Kaman likely will be available though..

[Mario Peña]

I second everything Dan has written. Blowing up the current roster to be good in about 8 years is much less desireable to me than staying competitive and hoping Morey can swindle other teams through trades as well as acquire role players.

[blakecouey]

From ESPN Insider, Chris Broussard.
"4. C Pau Gasol, L.A. Lakers for PF Luis Scola, PG Kyle Lowry and SF Chase Budinger,Houston Rockets
Scola dropped off this season but still had a fairly productive year, averaging 15.5 ppg and 6.4 rebounds. While he's not the player Gasol is, Lowry would more than make up the slack by giving the Lakers a legitimate starting point guard. Lowry is tough-minded, great defensively and a solid distributor. He would solve one of the Lakers's major problems, which is their ability to guard top-flight point guards. Budinger would sweeten the package with his athleticism and 3-point shooting at the small forward position.
For the Rockets, Gasol would finally give them the star player they've been dying for. Lowry, who has publicly stated his desire to be traded because of his dislike for Houston coach Kevin McHale, is expendable now that Goran Dragic has emerged. With Lowry gone, the Rockets can sign Dragic, and a one-two punch of Gasol and Dragic, with scorer Kevin Martinat the two-guard, could be pretty strong."


Either he has more knowledge on the situation than us, or he's clueless about the Kevin Martin situation. I suspect the latter. Either way, figured it was relevant for the topic and shows a possible trade where we would still have K Mart, Dalembert, Patterson, etc to deal/keep if we went that way.

On other trades, the first listing was Bynum/Sessions to Brooklyn for Lopez/Williams. If Bynum was in fact on the market, we would be stupid not to attempt it- although I expect he doesn't care for H-Town(or potential teammates lol) much due to his being ejected twice this year against us.

[Stephen]

Bynum is on the market only for a Superstar,which Houston lacks.

Most National writers are clueless about the Rockets. They think two things about the Rockets-the team plays hard and their players are available to fill other teams needs.

[blakecouey]

There are very few elite players that we truly have a chance at, all I mentioned was that we would be stupid not to attempt it.

[Mario Peña]

elite - a group of persons considered to be the best in their category due to talent, skill and accomplishments

seems pretty obvious Gasol is elite, a short memory might only judge Pau this past year when he was essentially pushed out of the paint and neglected in whatever Brown had masquerading as an offense...

[blakecouey]

^^^ you honestly believe 2012 Pau Gasol is an elite player. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

YEP. There aren't too many players out there with multiple rings, much less that actually were reasons for their team winning them. Also, as feelingsupersonic said, you can't judge a player on just one season, especially when they've recently changed head coaches.

How about I name 5 players who are better than Pau at the PF position to prove he is not elite.
Chris Bosh
Tim Duncan
Blake Griffin
Kevin Love
Lamarcus Aldridge.

Heck add Horford, Zach Randolph and Kevin Garnet to the mix too.

Whichever you look at it, the nixed trade was a blessing to the Rockets albeit a curse to the Lakers. The Rockets were going for Pau Gasol with the understanding that they will pair him up with Nene- although Nene already informed everyone he wanted to remain in Denver because of his wife- I think he was using the Rockets for leverage.

Now ignore Pau diminishing skills and toss in his albatross contract and you will understand why the Lakers are in a hurry to get rid of him.
Pau is a luxury the Lakers can afford to have at that contract- a luxury that the Rockets can't afford especially after gutting our players to get him

Ok, you mention 8 players that are arguably better than Pau at the PF position. You failed to mention the dozens that are better than each and every player that we would be giving up. If you know ANYTHING about sports trades you know that it takes SEVERAL role players/decent starters to equal the value of one elite/all star player. Again, I am saying Pau is ELITE. Next, the Rockets CAN afford to throw big money at players and even OVERPAY them if needed. We have players that we are willing to get rid of(namely Scola) and players we NEED to get rid of(Martin, Dally) that open us up to not only signing someone like Pau with his current contract, but also signing another large contract, if not max, if they are deserving. More so than other teams we can afford to make big moves, as small ones will leave us nowhere other than the 14th pick again next year.

Pau Gasol is a good player on a terrible ontract but lets not act as if he is the second coming of kevin mchale.
He can pass from the post, has some post moves but would rather settle for jumpers, iffy rebounder- sounds exactly like scola except he's a better rebounder than scola.
Plus do we really need another soft player on our starting 5. A pf that is afraid of contact. We r getting rid of scola for a taller more expensive clone.
We end up getting older and softer while the Laker revamp with their loot off us.
Add all the players we will be giving up for Gasol, and you will agree HE IS NOT WORTH IT. Marc Gasol is worth it tho.

Ok, so unless the calendar has changed without my knowledge Pau(July 6, 1980) is younger than Scola(April 30, 1980) by a few months, in which case, how are we getting older? We would be giving up mid twenty year old players as well, which would likely be replaced by draftees(again younger).
Good joke about Marc>Pau by the way. In 2012(an off year for Pau), Pau had better Points, Rebounds, and PER than Marc, so how again is Marc worth it over Pau?

These are my opinions, but they are also fact.

[Stephen]

No Dirk?
Let's go to the tape(this yr).
Player(minutes/game)...PER...Points/Game(Per36)...Rebounds(Per36)...Assists(Per36)...Blocks(Per36)...shooting %/TS%/eFG%.

Gasol(37.4).....19.5...17.4(16.7)ppg...10.4(10)....3.7(3.5)....1.4(1.3)....501%/.566%/.518%
Bosh(35.2)......18.9...18.0(18.4)ppg....7.9(8.1)....1.8(1.8)....0.8(0.8)....492%/.557%/.493%
Aldridge(36.3)...22.7...21.7(21.5)ppg....8.0(8.0)....2.4(2.4)...0.8(0.8)....512%/.560%/.513%
Love(39.0)........25.4...26.0(24.0)ppg...13.3(12.3)..2.0(1.9)...0.5(0.5)....448%/.568%/.491%
Griffin(36.2)......23.4....20.7(20.6)ppg..10.9(10.8)..3.2(3.2)...0.7(0.7)....549%/.557%/.550%
Duncan(28.2)...22.5....15.4(19.7)ppg...9.0(11.5)...2.3(2.9)...1.5(1.9)....492%/.531%/.492%
Garnett(31.1)....20.4...15.8(18.3)ppg...8.2(9.5).....2.9(3.4)...1.0(1.2)....503%/.550%/.505%
Horford(31.6)...19.0....12.4(14.1)ppg..7.0(8.0).....2.2(2.5)....1.3(1.4)....553%/.585%/.553% *Only 11 games,similar to career stats
Jefferson(34.0).16.6....19.2(20.3)ppg..9.6(10.4)...1.4(2.3)....1.4(1.8)....492%/.520%/.493%

Aldridge,Griffin,Jefferson,Love averaged the most shots on their team.(Usually by a large margin,Love being best at 19/7 shots/game,second on his team was Beasley at 10.4)
Gasol,Duncan,Garnett averaged the second most. Duncan and Garnett averged just a bit less than their team's #1 option,Gasol shot 7 times less a game than Kobe.)
Bosh was third and Horford was fourth(usually he ended up third).

Since the Rockets would play Gasol at Center,comparing him to other PFs is not particularly useful,BUT....
Gasol is second in minutes/game showing endurance.
Gasol is first in assists.
Gasol is second in blocks/game(4 per36 if Horford included)
Gasol is third in rebounds/game(5 per36)
Gasol is third in eFG% trailing only Blake and Horford.
Gasol is third in TS% behind Love and Horford.
Gasol is sixth in PER.
Gasol is sixth in points/game(drops to eight per36)

If you just look at points/game,Gasol is lacking compared to the rest. But if you across the board,points,shooting %,rebounds,assists,blocks,ability to play big minutes,Gasol is elite.

Of the taller players listed,Gasol,Aldridge,Bosh,Duncan,Garnett,only Duncan averaged more rebounds per 36,none more per game,and you have to wonder if Duncan could have made it thru the season playing 36 minutes a game.

[blakecouey]

so multiple rings makes a player elite?
Adam Morrison and Scalabrini have rings too- does that make them elite?
Pau is not elite, he might have had one or two elite years, but Pau Gasol hasn't crossed my elite radar in a while.
We are getting older because of the younger pieces we are giving up for Pau.

Leave your opinions as opinions cos they are not facts.
A young Pau Gasol couldn't do much on the Grizzlies, and now you expect a broken down Pau Gasol with nothing to prove to take the Rokets to the next level.

Sometimes I wonder where most rockets fans get their basketball ideas from.
Facts pssshhhh

I mentioned those players for the dictionary enthusiast who wanted to define elite for me.
He's not top 5 at his position.
He is not among the top two options at his position
For a 7ft, he is a terrible rebounder for his height, position and minutes

So what exactly makes Pau Gasol an elite player- his passing?
Yes, at 3.7 assists, he is the next coming of Chris Paul.

First off, read the entire sentence before commenting Morrison/Scalabrine. As I mentioned the reason Championships factor in for Pau is because he was an integral part of those Championship winning teams, and without HIM they likely lose BOTH. Secondly, it is fairly obvious you operate only on your opinion/assumption/ignorance as you fail to comprehend the facts that are shown to you. Thankfully Stephen posted the stats so I don't have to, but they show what has been said, Gasol is elite. I also addressed your comment about the Rockets getting older, I guess Ill say it again(maybe youll comprehend it this time??). The package the Rockets would be giving up for Pau would indeed cost us a few younger players, calling Scola/Gasol age wise a wash, but we would be filling those lost players positions in the draft most likely, replacing 23-26 year olds with 19-22 year olds. So again, how does that make us older?
Mentioning a PF's assist statistic in some sort of sarcastic comment shows one of two things:
Either you're too stubborn to admit that you are wrong; or
You comprehend so little about basketball that you truly believe yourself to be right.

Gasol is Elite and even if his skills are "diminishing" he is still an upgrade, and brings several non-statistical traits to the team that we lack at this time(playoff experience being number one).

[Mario Peña]

Hey RedStewie, if you dont think Gasol is elite I respect your opinion but I have been watching basketball since I was a kid in 1985, I know when I watch a player if they can ball or not and if they are elite, top and bottom Pau Gasol is elite...

[blakecouey]

I respect your opinions too feelingsupersonic, but if Pau was really elite, the Lakers wouldn't be trying to get rid of him just like that

Other issues go into the decision, to trade away or trade for players, than abilities, even more so when you've got Kobe and Bynum. It is no question that Pau isn't the first, or even second option on the Lakers, but that does not mean he is not elite. Ray Allen is no longer the third option on the Celtics, but is there any question about him being elite(STILL)? Sometimes a team comes to a point where they have a good player that they have to get rid of because they have a higher value to other teams than their own, therefore allowing them to get a higher value return for their team. It is especially true for the Lakers with a deal we can give them. They would have a downgraded PF in Scola, but they would be able to get a borderline all star in Lowry(huge upgrade over Sessions), and any other filler piece would most likely be an upgrade for their bench. This isn't the 80s/90s anymore where players spend their entire career on one team, teams are constantly trying to improve and players are constantly chasing money/titles going wherever they get the best opportunity at them. At times this causes elite players to change venues, either by FA or by being traded.