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Should The Rockets Trade Kevin Martin?

rockets kevin martin free agency offseason

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#1 Adi1008

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    Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:03 PM

    Kevin Martin's trade value has gone down dramatically this year due to injuries and poor play, and Courtney Lee has proven to be an adept SG. Should the Rockets trade Martin in order to get a true superstar, or should they keep him and hope he comes through in 2012-2013?
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    #2 rockets best fan

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    Posted 06 May 2012 - 11:09 PM

    I don't think there's a question. he will be traded. only question is when ( b4 the season or at the trade deadline). martin was on borrowed time the moment rick aldelman left. I do disagree about his trade value. martin has high trade value for 2 different reasons. 1. martin by stats is one of the most effecient players in the league and a pretty good shooter. 2. martin is in the last year of his contract which will pay him almost 13 mil this season. he is exactly the type of player most teams are looking for(a good player with not much money tied up in him). there will be 2 different kind of offers coming at the rockets in reguards to martin. teams who want him for what he can knock off their salary cap the following year, and teams who need a shooting guard and want a decent one without investing a lot of future money. I am more concerned that the rockets maximize what they can get for him which should be a pretty good haul. remember t-mac's expiring contract? remember how badly new york wanted it? same thing will happen with martin except he will still have something left in the tank.
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    you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


    #3 Rahat Huq

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      Posted 06 May 2012 - 11:49 PM

      I think the only questions regarding Martin aren't if he'll be traded but rather how soon and for what. Minnesota seems like the most logical choice for their #18 as others here have pointed out, but man, what a buzzkill to have the guy who was supposedly our best player slip that much in terms of value and only net back a package like that. Hopefully I'm wrong and they can squeeze out something else of value but I'm not holding my breath.
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      #4 areteejay789

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        Posted 07 May 2012 - 12:33 AM

        Didnt i hear Minnesota is looking to get rid of beasley? maybe we could get 18 and beas, and then trade beas off to someone else, or three way trade sending beasley to someone in need of scoring/talent (charlotte?) to net us something else.

        I agree it would be a bit dissapointing to only get the number 18 pick, but minny have the biggest demand for martin, and they dont really have anything we need, (unless we could get pekovic?)
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        #5 rockets best fan

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        Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:58 AM

        areteejay789:
        I don't see minny parting with pekovic. when the rockets and minny were discussing a trade near the deadline the rockets wanted williams the kid they drafted #2 last year, but minny wouldn't bite. the #18 pick is not enough for martin. besides minny isn't the only team that will come calling. there are several teams that need a shooting guard. how about chicago, portland, utah, brooklyn and washington just to name a few.
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        you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


        #6 Rahat Huq

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          Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:31 AM

          areteejay789:
          I don't see minny parting with pekovic. when the rockets and minny were discussing a trade near the deadline the rockets wanted williams the kid they drafted #2 last year, but minny wouldn't bite. the #18 pick is not enough for martin. besides minny isn't the only team that will come calling. there are several teams that need a shooting guard. how about chicago, portland, utah, brooklyn and washington just to name a few.

          Agreed on Pekovic - I would have to think he's close to untouchable for them. You don't see too many bigs that skilled.

          As for the others, Chicago and Utah make the most sense.

          Not sure on Portland - they claim they plan on retooling and not rebuilding so who knows.

          For Brooklyn, it would depend on whether Deron Williams is back.

          Washington could also make sense as they seem to want to now be surrounding Wall with veterans (like Nene).

          I think the best you can hope for in a Kevin Martin deal is a mid-range draft pick (like the Minnesota #18) and an untapped young player.
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          #7 rockets best fan

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          Posted 08 May 2012 - 04:23 AM

          Rahat:
          it amazes me you guys think martin is worth so little. martin average 17.5 points a game this year. sure he missed part of the season, but even in a down year for him he average 17.5 points. if you look at the point we acquired martin he had just had a down year for him in sac. teams are not going to suddenly forget what martin is capable of. I don't like martin, but just because we are ready to toss him out don't mean he suddenly lost his value. martin is a very capable 2 guard. sure he has limitations, but some other team may feel they can cover his faults long as he keeps putting up 20 point games. remember way back when we used to feel like that? I know martin is not going to bring us a package worthy of a star, but if we take anything less than at least a lottery draft pick we are getting hosed. in addition martin is on the final year of a large contract. even if a team has no intention of keeping martin with the salary cap set to reduce and the luxury tax becoming more punitive, teams will be scrambling looking for ways to reduce payroll. maybe you all have forgotten the mc grady trade, but I haven't. morey is very good at flipping these type of assets.
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          you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


          #8 Rahat Huq

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            Posted 08 May 2012 - 04:58 AM

            What do you think would be a good, expected return for Martin, theoretically?
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            #9 rockets best fan

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            Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:07 AM

            What do you think would be a good, expected return for Martin, theoretically?

            I think probably 1 young player( with high up side) and a lottery pick between 8-12 or a decent big man and latter 1st rounder between 18-23.
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            you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


            #10 Stephen

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              Posted 08 May 2012 - 04:23 PM

              Cap Room and 2 middling Firsts,don't have to be in same Draft.
              The Cap relief would go a long way toward resigning Dragic and Lee.
              The Firsts could get a fringe rotation player or be used in other trades.
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              #11 Mario Peña

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              Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:20 AM

              Martin might be most valuble in a three team trade that requires specifics such as matching contracts and assets that push a large trade through. Martin is definitely worth more than an 18th and some serviceable role player. I believe NBA scouts and front office types know Martin's potential on the right team with the right offensive scheme, despite what happened this season.
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              #12 rockets best fan

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              Posted 09 May 2012 - 02:40 AM

              Cap Room and 2 middling Firsts,don't have to be in same Draft.
              The Cap relief would go a long way toward resigning Dragic and Lee.
              The Firsts could get a fringe rotation player or be used in other trades.

              we don't need cap relief or we would keep martin until his contract expired. if we don't get an upcoming player, we should get at least 2 first rounders with 1 of them being in the lottery.

              Martin might be most valuble in a three team trade that requires specifics such as matching contracts and assets that push a large trade through. Martin is definitely worth more than an 18th and some serviceable role player. I believe NBA scouts and front office types know Martin's potential on the right team with the right offensive scheme, despite what happened this season.

              I could see this happening. maybe send martin to minny. they send their 1st rounder and beasley to orlando. orlando send howard to houston. houston send 14 and 16 picks plus pick we get from dallas next year to orlando
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              you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


              #13 Stephen

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                Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:09 AM

                As to Martin's trade value,he was traded for Carl Landry and salary relief.

                That was then,this is now,and now Martin will be on the last yr of his contract. So any team that wants to trade for him has no assurance he'll re-sign w/them,thus decreasing his trade value.

                As to my reasoning for being happy w/Cap relief and a couple middling Firsts(spec Minn and the #18 this yr and the Memphis 2013):
                If it's done just before the Draft,nothing to prevent Rockets from packaging 2 of three to move up. A rebuilding NO might prefer the #14 amd 18 for their #10 for instance.
                Second it gives the Rockets 4 picks over next two Drafts to trade(the 16,18 this yr,own and Memphis next yr) plus a Future Dallas pick.
                Finally,the Rockets could actually use all three picks and draft a big,a SG and perhaps reach a bit and draft a defensive stopper SF in Jeffrey Taylor or a PG that falls they like.

                As to the Cap relief,w/such a trade the Rockets would be at @ $44mil,some $14mil under Cap WITH Dalembert and the Cap holds for Lee and Dragic. That's enough to make a max offer to whoever Rockets want. Stretch buy-out Dalembert and the Rockets have about $20mil in cap space.
                At this point the Rockets could offer to take on just about any player w/nothing going back except some or all of 2 Firsts in 2013,2 or 3 First from 2012 and Motie.
                If Goran and Lee get offers and/or agree to sign early,the Rockets could afford signing them to some $15mil combined and STILL have some $14mil to offer a FA.
                Unloading Martin's contract allows the team to re-sign Goran and Courtney and still have enough for a max-type offer,plus add a cheapish roster filler. Without dumping Kevin's contract,the Rockets Cap room will be eaten up by re-signing Dragic and Lee.
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                #14 Rahat Huq

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                  Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:16 AM

                  I have to agree with Stephen. Kevin Martin in his prime was traded pretty much straight up for Carl Landry, a nice young power forward, but a bench player and one who wasn't seen as having star potential.

                  While it may be the case that his talent is the same, because he's on the last year of his deal, he probably has even less value.

                  Either way, it's all speculation at this point, so we'll see what happens. I think we'll get something along the lines of a mid-first rounder and a young player or a future pick. One thing we can all agree on though is that he'll most likely be gone.
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                  #15 rockets best fan

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                  Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:12 PM

                  stephen:
                  martin was traded for landry, dorsey (who was also regarded as upcoming at the time) and cash. that's 2 young power forwards and cash. the difference this time is the short contract,( which is an advantage). indirectly you make a good point of how important salary relief is to nba teams. we had been after martin for a couple of years b4 we got him, and we only got him when sac needed to get rid of salary. this time around a team can get not only talent in martin, but salary relief too. martin is very low risk. this is what nba teams love(high return low risk cheap talent). if martin works out with his new team they sign him for less. if he doesn't they let him walk and chop 13 mil off their salary. that's a win/win for any team. also as I mentioned in a previous post, morey is very very good at flipping these kind of assets. remember he also traded mc grady the same day we got martin. it was a 3 team deal. now mc grady had all kind of question marks surrounding him at the time, but was on an expiring deal. basicly morey took out the trash and brought in martin on that day. I trust him to be able to do the same with martin.
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                  you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


                  #16 Stephen

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                    Posted 09 May 2012 - 05:00 PM

                    The problem w/Martin as salary relief for another team is it means that the Rockets are absorbing the contract(s) that the other team doesn't want anymore.Trading Martin to get someone else's bad multi-yr contract better come attached to something great,which is highly unlikely and questionable at best whether you'd want to get stuck w/a bad contract when Cap room will become invaluable in future yrs.(Not to mention the new revenue sharing gives poorer teams the ability to simply buy-out that middling bad contract. With Les having to pay revenue sharing whether he goes over Lux Tax or not,asking him to pay additional 10s of millions to buy out a contract is going to be tough-esp since that bought out contract will stay on the Cap.)

                    If Martin is being traded for a "better" player,the other team is NOT going to want just Cap relief. They're going to want more,young players,draft picks,etc. So it won't be Martin for so-and-so,it'd be Martin PLUS whatever for so-and-so.(To be fair,I could see a Martin even up for Indy's Granger. Indy wants to move George to SF and wants to make a run at Gordon. If Gordon takes the qualifying offer and doesn't accept anyone else's offer sheet,it'd be clear that he wants to go to Indy as well. Altho if he wants to go to indy that bad,nothing to stop the two teams from doing a sign-n-trade for Granger directly.)

                    Teams that are approaching Cap Hell are not going to be trading All-Star caliber players just for Martin. OKC isn't trading Westbrook for him,no way Morey takes on Joe Johnson or Amare,so who's left? Deng,waaay overpaid. Zac Randolph,ha! RRudy Gay,hmmm,last yr out,team one First Rd,this yr healthy,team struggling,not exactly what you'd want out of a max player.

                    My opinion is if Martin is being traded for a pretty good player it means either the Rockets are having to take on a horrible contract or they're giving up more in the trade.
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                    #17 rockets best fan

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                    Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:19 AM

                    Stephen:
                    getting back a good player is the hole idea. if we aren't getting back a good player why trade martin? the rockets already have plenty of cap room even with martin. as for giving up something with martin ( as long as it is a better player is totally acceptable). we are not going to get a team to give us their good players for nothing. you have to give something up to get something. if taking on a star means we also take on extra money so be it. my thoughts are to include martin in a trade for a star, or at least a player who has a chance to be a star. other that that we should only be after draft picks.
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                    you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


                    #18 Stephen

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                      Posted 10 May 2012 - 03:38 AM

                      Rockets best fan,
                      "other that that we should only be after draft picks."
                      That's my point.
                      The Rockets can reasonably expect cap relief and middling draft picks. I doubt they can get more,and I doubt they'll accept less.
                      As to why they should trade Martin,I would not be at all surprised if he hasn't gone to Management and asked for a trade. He did in Sac and was a true professional,keeping quiet about his trade demand.
                      And it was telling that the Rockets were in no hurry to get him back on the court compared to Lowry. I think it's pretty obvious they don't have him in their future plans. There's no chance at all that they will re-sign him,so why not get what you can for him while you can?


                      BTW,I erred when I had the Rockets 2013 First being available for a trade. Until NJ uses the pick they got for Williams,the Rockets can't trade away their own future Firsts.
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                      #19 rockets best fan

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                      Posted 10 May 2012 - 04:54 AM

                      Stephen:
                      we are going to trade martin. there is no doubt in my mind. I think there will be 2 stars on the market this year via trade (IMO). I think oralndo will trade howard, and atlanta will trade josh smith. if the rockets get a chance at either I think they should take it. absorbing a little extra salary won't hurt us. we need players who can make a difference. piling up middle 1st round draft picks ain't going to get the job done. we need a bold move, not some play it safe move. when howard becomes available if I were the rockets I would offer martin, dally, parsons, #14 and dallas pick next year. even if I had to throw in the # 16 pick this year I would still do it. if we keep doing the same thing we can expect the same results. real change is only going to come from a shake up of this roster.
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                      you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


                      #20 Adi1008

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                        Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:15 PM

                        I have 2 things to say after finally coming back to this topic:

                        1) I agree with most of the comments above
                        2)I should have rephrased my topic. Kevin Martin's trade value has not necessarily gone donw; the Rockets can trade him to various teams and get quite a bit in return. It's Kevin Martin's value to the Rockets that has decreased. Martin is a one dimensional player, and since officials have not been calling as many fouls this season, Martin's one dimension has diminished greatly. He struggles with defense, cannot create for other players, cannot rebound efficiently... Most likely will be traded
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