43 replies to this topic

[MichaelPina]

I wrote something this morning about Roy Hibbert, and how dominant he might be in the future. What does everybody think? Should the Rockets sign him even if it's to a max deal?

Link to full story: http://www.red94.net/roy-hibbert/9598/

Edited by Rahat Huq, 03 May 2012 - 04:24 PM.

[pharmag]

Honestly, I have looked at centers a little and I think I like him more than anyone, including D12. Howard, Hibbert, and Bynum are all essentially the same age, and while Howard and Bynum are better now, it has contributed to a team decimating ego. Hibbert seems to have that quality of being a student of the game that the other two sometimes lack, as well as being able to recognize his own abilities and limitations. If we sign him to a max contract, I might actually like that more than any trade for Howard, an idea I had slowly been moving towards over the past few weeks. I could see some potential in a team that does the following:

Sign Hibbert to a max.
Resign Lee and Camby.
Move Scola, Martin, Bud, and 1 of PG (if Dragic is retained).
Bring Motie over.
Use our two picks to grab a wing player and another big man (or trade up and grab best available).
Sign a back-up PG.

Not sure if it would work money wise (i will try to look into it later), but I like that team and I think Hibbert is a player you can risk a max contract on and not get burned, even if he isn't worth it yet. This would give you the following line-up:

PG Lowry or Dragic/FA
SG Lee/Draftee
SF Parsons/Morris
PF Motie/Patterson/Draftee
C Hibbert/Camby/Draftee

I like the potential of Morris maybe developing into a go-to scorer (everyone talks about his best attribute being creating his own shot, and watching him at Kansas I like his chances). If necessary for closing sakes then (provide Morris doesn't take Parsons starting role), I like the thought of having a line-up of Dragic/Lowry, Parsons, Morris, Motie, Hibbert. Any thoughts?

[Rahat Huq]

Very interesting piece - I did not realize he had become so dominant. The part about the private scout was probably the most telling - few big men, maybe in history, are THAT committed.

But Indiana is sure to match any offer, right? I don't see how they could possibly let him walk.

[MichaelPina]

Regarding the Pacers matching any offer on the table for Hibbert, I should've mentioned in my piece that they had a chance to extend him and instead chose not to offer anything. If Indiana was so concerned with losing Hibbert, they didn't show it. Meanwhile, Minnesota signed Kevin Love (albeit to a deal not to his liking), and the Thunder locked up Russell Westbrook. I thought that was telling, and so did Hibbert, who said he'd love to entertain offers this offseason.

[Lyfestyle]

If I'm Morey, I'm extending Hibbert and Gordon max offers and forcing their respective teams to match. It would be baffling to me if Indiana let him walk.

[rockets best fan]

indiana's not going to let him walk. they will match any contract including a max offer. they simply want to make him earn his money. they didn't extend him hoping it might save them some money, and it still might if he doesn't sign a max offer sheet. with that said he would be nice if we got him, but (IMO) it will probably will be easier to trade for howard than to get indiana to turn him loose

[Rahat Huq]

Regarding the Pacers matching any offer on the table for Hibbert, I should've mentioned in my piece that they had a chance to extend him and instead chose not to offer anything. If Indiana was so concerned with losing Hibbert, they didn't show it. Meanwhile, Minnesota signed Kevin Love (albeit to a deal not to his liking), and the Thunder locked up Russell Westbrook. I thought that was telling, and so did Hibbert, who said he'd love to entertain offers this offseason.

I have to disagree here. They have no reason to be concerned because he's restricted. Aside from goodwill, they gained nothing from extending him. By letting him test free agency, they can get him at a cheaper deal by matching whatever offer he signs. (4 years as opposed to 5 years, and 7.5% annual raises as opposed to 12.5%, if I'm not mistaken.) This is similar to the strategy the Rockets take with all of their players.

However, I'm sold on Hibbert. I'd hit the draft and test out the Dwight Howard option. If that fails, on Day 1 of free agency, I drop Dalembert and extend an offer to Hibbert and see what happens.

[MichaelPina]

RBF and Rahat: You guys are certainly right, but what if Indiana targets Steve Nash and Eric Gordon? It all depends on how they play against/lose to the Heat. If it's four or five games, a major change could be coming.

[rockets best fan]

MichaelPina:
indiana's not going to target nash when they already have collison and hill (restricted FA) on the books. gordon could help them, but with the need to sign hibbert and hill, they will be busy trying not to lose what they already have.

[MichaelPina]

If you're Indiana, there's only so long you can go with this patient process before making a splashy move. The Pacers are at the bottom in attendance and re-signing George Hill doesn't improve that. It also doesn't improve your basketball team. I'd say this team is at the top of the list for Nash this offseason.

[Alituro]

I'd love to have Hibbert, as others had said, probably more than DW or Bynum. Impressed by his work ethic.

A factor some may have not considered in our pursuit of him: Larry Bird is Prez of Bball operations for Indy. Would his and McHale's relationship give us an edge?

[blakecouey]

I'd love to have Hibbert, as others had said, probably more than DW or Bynum. Impressed by his work ethic.

A factor some may have not considered in our pursuit of him: Larry Bird is Prez of Bball operations for Indy. Would his and McHale's relationship give us an edge?

There is no quid pro quo in the pacers favor, if it were a trade scenario then maybe? But the pacers are in the bad position and if we happened to offer a max contract that has to hurt the pacers.

Hibbert would be an upgrade for sure, and as has been said his committment is commendable. A max offer wouldn't be a huge risk, much less so than E Gordon. If we kept the original plan to drop Martin, dally, one pg, and possibly scola wed have the space for more upgrades too. I wont beat a dead horse and mention a certain sg from Memphis I'd like to add to our team.

[rockets best fan]

blakecouey:
when we mentioned mayo in the other post it cause an uproar, but I wonder did they see his 20 points in last nights playoff game that help memphis to win. as for hibbert there is no way we can get him period. all the things we see in him indiana does too. I looked up their salary cap situation and they are in good shape to sign him to max money and still have money to sign hill. we have no shot no shot to get him. I don't think the rockets are going to chase him based on that reason. someone I would like to see us chase as a bandage till we find our big man of the future is kaman. we could possibly sign him to less that max money, and still bring in a big man to be groomed by him.

[blakecouey]

blakecouey:
when we mentioned mayo in the other post it cause an uproar, but I wonder did they see his 20 points in last nights playoff game that help memphis to win. as for hibbert there is no way we can get him period. all the things we see in him indiana does too. I looked up their salary cap situation and they are in good shape to sign him to max money and still have money to sign hill. we have no shot no shot to get him. I don't think the rockets are going to chase him based on that reason. someone I would like to see us chase as a bandage till we find our big man of the future is kaman. we could possibly sign him to less that max money, and still bring in a big man to be groomed by him.

There being no shot at getting him makes even more sense for us to go after him, if anything we can tie Indiana into a max deal which although they have decent cap space(Barbosa is a FA as well), it WILL hinder them in future years when they want to resign Granger and West(next year). Indiana also has several mid level players that will probably be looking for more money as well, C being one of their deepest positions maybe they let Hibbert slip?
Kaman is a possibility, but I'd be somewhat irritated if we go after him and not Hibbert or Pekovic(in trade). Durability is a big issue with me, I dont care what your talent if I can't rely on you to be on the court using it.
I know mentioning Mayo causes a frenzy of haters, but if nothing else it's caused readers to watch him more closely in game and hopefully they will change their tune after a few games. In addition, the "our focus needs to be a big" comment from most of them is worn out, we all know we need a big, but if we play our situation correctly there is enough room for other additions. These additions can cost-effectively come from players with starter talent that have been forced into reserve roles due to the depth of their previous team(much like Lee/Dragic has been for us), these players can be "stolen" for much less than their starter counterpart due to their lack of popularity. Put simply: Mayo @8m > Gordon@max.

[rockets best fan]

blakecouey:
agreed on most points, but think about this (if you were indiana would you let hibbert slip?) I don't think so. it does us no good to tie there salary cap up because they aren't in our conference. whether we go after hibbert or not i'm sure some other team will force indiana to pay him a max deal. fact is there are not many FA that can change us into an elite team. we are probably going to have to look at the draft and trade possibilities to improve this team in a way that makes us elite.

[blakecouey]

blakecouey:
agreed on most points, but think about this (if you were indiana would you let hibbert slip?) I don't think so. it does us no good to tie there salary cap up because they aren't in our conference. whether we go after hibbert or not i'm sure some other team will force indiana to pay him a max deal. fact is there are not many FA that can change us into an elite team. we are probably going to have to look at the draft and trade possibilities to improve this team in a way that makes us elite.

Much like their fans, I haven't seen enough of Indiana play to make that judgement. I am not knowledgable on their depth or rotations so I cannot use anything but statistical analysis, which leaves out the all important chemistry, heart, and non box score attributes. Using the stats provided, Indiana has no backup 5 that is ready for a starting role, Amundsen lacks the size, and Fresenko has no ability to score. Fresenko is huge, young, and is a defensive powerhouse, but won't be given a chance to start. So, unless Michael is right and they go down hard to Miami they may be forced to keep him along and lose another piece, or lose him and rely on the draft. I disagree that tying up their cap space isnt beneficial to us, sure it'd help if they were in conference but if they have less/no space thats one less team that can pursue other options intelligently. Also, Hibbert sits at 13ppg/9reb/2blocks a game, that isnt all-star caliber, there is always the possibility that Indiana management thinks he's reached his ceiling and believes they can do better. So to finally answer your question directly, yes I think there is a possibility Indiana lets him slip, especially for a max contract or frontloaded deal that would cause them issues resigning some of their other FAs. In another note, offering Hibbert a deal doesn't infringe on our other options at all. Camby should be quite aware that we aren't looking for him to start 82games next year, and Dalembert probably realizes his time is up in Houston.

[rockets best fan]

blakecouey:
it could temporarily tie up our cap space until indiana steps up to match it possibly making us miss some other opportunity. as for camby and dally the last thing the rockets should be worried about is hurting their feelings. neither are part of the core on this team. in fact I think they should cut dally and not resign camby. we must not only get better down low, but we must also get younger. if I was going to keep either it would be camby, and only if he will accept 5 mil per or less for max 2 years. that would only be so he could help groom the future replacements.

[Rahat Huq]

I don't know about their situation now, but I know the team was in dire financial straits a year or two ago, to the point where, I believe, the city had to provide them with a loan amount. The article is somewhere online. Perhaps a front loaded contract would be too much to swallow?

[majik19]

Hibbert is not a max player. Max players are (rather should be) superstars. Hibbert is on a Pacers team that is a lot like the Rockets are now, and do you consider them a legitimate contender for a championship?

The Pacers started Hill, George, Granger, West, and Hibbert this year. George, Hansborough, and Collison came off the bench.
Our best lineup was Dragic, Lee, Parsons, Scola, and Camby. At full strength, we would have Lowry, Martin, Budinger, Patterson, and Dalembert coming off the bench (unrealistic... but let's assume it for now).

If you switch Hibbert and Camby, have we gained anything but youth? Would we be any better? We would not be a championship contender, and 1/5 of our salary would be tied up in him for the next 5 years. Not to mention we would be strapped to get a true "best player on a championship team."

We would be betting an awful lot that Hibbert improved - dramatically.

I'd also like to point out Hibbert was drafted 17th. We pick earlier than 17th every year. I'd like to hope we can find our own Hibbert, much cheaper than max.

[blakecouey]

We would be betting an awful lot that Hibbert improved - dramatically.

I'd also like to point out Hibbert was drafted 17th. We pick earlier than 17th every year. I'd like to hope we can find our own Hibbert, much cheaper than max.

It's been shown that he has improved each year in the league. Maybe not dramatically, but improvement shouldnt go unnoticed. Max might be a stretch for Hibbert, but a solid center puts us much closer to our end goal of being in contention. The fact is, this year unless you can get away with Howard or Bynum you won't be adding a surefire superstar center to your team.
For the draft comment, some players need development, and just because we have a lower pick than that doesn't mean an equal or better talent will be available to us. Looking at it, the 08 draft was fairly deep with good talent: Rose, Beasley, Mayo, Westbrook, Love, Gordon. Ibaka was drafted 24 in that class, next year he will be getting paid, a lot.