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@  majik19 : (28 April 2016 - 04:25 AM) klay thompson is the best player on the floor. hard to win when Harden isn't the best.
@  majik19 : (28 April 2016 - 04:19 AM) GS is better at hitting bad/covered shots than anyone on our team is at hitting open shots.
@  majik19 : (28 April 2016 - 04:16 AM) that was embarassing. 4 offensive rebounds. 2 missed 3s by Ariza and 2 missed 3s by Beverley.
@  Cooper : (28 April 2016 - 03:24 AM) this team is depressing
@  majik19 : (28 April 2016 - 03:01 AM) Ariza is a complete negative on the floor. he can't hit a shot or fight through/around a screen to save his life
@  majik19 : (28 April 2016 - 02:54 AM) everyone but james harden is terrible right now
@  thejohnnygold : (27 April 2016 - 08:49 PM) I think Walton is going to be a solid hire for somebody. I wouldn't mind if it were for us.
@  slick shoes : (27 April 2016 - 06:15 PM) I'd like to see them take it full circle and hire Walton. I don't know if he's the right buy for their young core currently, but maybe 2-3 years from now.
@  thejohnnygold : (27 April 2016 - 05:24 PM) Knowing LA, they will do something that leaves us all scratching our heads.
@  slick shoes : (27 April 2016 - 04:56 PM) While I do favor JVG, I hope that we also kick the tires on a few other guys as well.
@  thejohnnygold : (27 April 2016 - 01:34 PM) If you mean JVG--no, I'm not worried. :)
@  slick shoes : (27 April 2016 - 12:32 PM) Is it just me or is the Lakers firing Scott a bit worrisome for our coaching search?
@  DenverRocket : (27 April 2016 - 12:02 AM) Seems like Parsons is already trying to recruit Dwight to the Mavs ;-)
@  DenverRocket : (26 April 2016 - 05:51 AM) I love KD even more after his post-match response to that Cuban comment: "He's a idiot!" :)
@  slick shoes : (26 April 2016 - 03:01 AM) Why give Westbrook bulletin board material in a closeout game?
@  Mario Peña : (26 April 2016 - 02:28 AM) That insult Cuban hurled at Westbrook was classic big mouth Cuban. It gave Wedtbrook some fuel no doubt.
@  Mario Peña : (25 April 2016 - 02:40 AM) I can't stand the Warriors but I hate to see great players fall prey to injuries. Seems like Steph could be done till next season which is unfortunate since he does play on one team I root for, Team USA.
@  majik19 : (24 April 2016 - 10:02 PM) down by 23 points and we have McDaniels AND Brewer in. WTF?
@  majik19 : (24 April 2016 - 09:48 PM) the difference in this gme has been Brewer is in and Beverley is out
@  majik19 : (24 April 2016 - 09:46 PM) Team gave up. I know it's hard when the Warriors won't miss and we can't hit anything, but man.

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The standings, the MVP race, the Pelicans, and the Hawks


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#1 Red94

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    Posted 09 March 2015 - 12:42 AM

    New post: The standings, the MVP race, the Pelicans, and the Hawks
    By: Rahat Huq

    We have to get to the second seed now because the Spurs have climbed to sixth.  Last week, when the officials handed the Memphis Grizzlies a win by blowing a call the league later admitted should have been made, I said it hurt because the second seed was so very much within reach.  Many of you responded that seeding did not matter, something I had been saying all year, and I agreed.  But with San Antonio having won five straight now, and the Mavs slumping, seeding very much does matter.  Out of the field, the Spurs and Mavs are the two best matchups for Houston.  But I think San Antonio is decidedly more frightening.  It's true that Houston's advantage athletically would be overwhelming.  But in the playoffs, the Spurs are a different beast.  You'd just think that they'd find some way, some combination, to overcome Houston.

     

    An interesting conversation emerged Wednesday night on the Twitterverse after another Russell Westbrook explosion.  Most agreed that if the Thunder point guard continued at his current pace, and if the Thunder claimed the 8th seed, he deserved the MVP.  I concur with that sentiment.  And its unfortunate for James Harden, a player who has sustained greatness throughout the course of the season, because he holds claim to neither exteme in team success and individual statistics, unlike Westbrook and Steph Curry.  This year's race almost feels presidential, with a new frontrunner emerging weekly, with the fear being of peaking too soon.  Westbrook, Curry, and of course Harden, would all be worthy candidates, but may I opine for a moment about Lebron James?  He's been godly, as usual, and undoubtedly is the difference between a bonafide Finals contender and a trip to the lottery.  But how can a voter in good conscience vote for someone who, in essence, took a two week vacation, when other candidates have carried their teams for the entire 82 game stretch?

     

    Here's a Rockets fan problem: if Westbrook, like, averages a triple double the rest of the way, and the Thunder get in, he's the MVP.  So then do you need to hope for the Pelicans making the 8th seed?  While that might get Harden the MVP, it also lowers the value of the Pelicans pick which Houston owns.  But on the flip side, Houston's best chance at the Finals is with someone else taking Golden State out along the way - the Pelicans wouldn't have a prayer, unlike a healthy Thunder team.

     

    One final note on the Hawks: it's funny looking back to the early days of the season when Paul Millsap was one of our favorite topics of discussion.  For one, we don't need a power forward anymore.  But what's more, is how we were all wrong.  In those days, the Hawks were still good and near the top of the standings, but hadn't yet taken flight.  I used to say that I didn't think Millsap would be on the market because the team was doing well.  Many of you responded that it didn't matter if they were just "doing well"...they were on the mediocrity treadmill.  I agreed that they were on the mediocrity treadmill but said they were content with it.  Not so much on the mediocrity treadmill now, are they?  What does that tell us?  I've said before, I think this year moreso than any in recent history, underscores the importance of coaching in the NBA.  We saw it before on the defensive side, with teams like the Bulls overachieving on the strength of solid defenses.  But now, we're seeing two teams in Golden State and Atlanta, blowing away the rest of the league, after bringing back the exact same rosters they had from the previous season.  Where do the Rockets fit into all of this?  For as much as Morey shares about his philosophy regarding player personnel, he's a pretty closed book when it comes to his views on coaching.  The one quote I do recall is one where he said something like, "a coach isn't worth more than 5 wins" or something like that.  I wonder if that thinking has changed.


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    #2 thejohnnygold

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    Posted 09 March 2015 - 04:28 PM

    I was just looking at Westbrook's numbers at basketball-reference.com.  Wow.  Check out his Usage % splits HERE.

     

    To me, that spells MVP more than any other player on the list.  Westbrook is the team.  Curry, James, and Harden all float in the lower to mid thirties on usage rate (Curry actually spends a lot of time in the upper 20's).  Not Russell.  I have been thinking about it all season...Russell Westbrook is the single player in this league that would make us unstoppable as a team.  Forget the salary cap/trades/everything else.  It would be 1986 all over again: Unbeatable.

     

    Back to reality.  Nothing against James Harden--who has no doubt turned in an MVP season thus far--however, Russell Westbrook is embodying the MVP right now in every possible way aside from having the best record.

     

    As for the coaching--I don't think it has changed.  In Golden State, that is a case of having two players emerge as studs in the same year (Thompson and Green) after turning in solid performances the year before.  Shaun Livingston was a great pick up for them.  They have a deep roster that matches their style of play.  Kerr simply had to not screw it up.  Which he has done.  It's a free flowing offense and everyone has a green light to shoot.  We'll see how good Kerr is once they pay Green (if they do).

     

    They are at $83M for next season and that is at 11 players and no Green nor Barbosa.  Even if they get someone to take David Lee's expiring deal without getting anything in return they are at $68M.  They can drop Speights' $3M too.  That seriously diminishes their depth as both of those guys are a big part of the team.  I seriously doubt GS posts a record this good next season.

     

    As for Atlanta, that is no surprise either.  They got Horford back, Teague has truly come on, Korver is re-defining the definition of good 3 pt. shooting, they picked up Sefolosha (similar to our Ariza pick up), Schroeder is playing well, Mike Scott and DeMarre Carroll are solid off the bench, and they have Millsap on one of the best contracts (per value) in the league.  Once again, this is about roster as much as anything else.  The coach is doing a great job, but this roster would be winning either way.  They literally got an upgrade at every position but PF either through free agency, health, or player improvement.  Like Golden State, they have enjoyed a relatively healthy season which never hurts the W/L record.

     

    Certainly, coaches matter, but I don't think one can legitimately imply that they are the sole factors in what we are seeing in Atlanta and Golden State.  Those teams are peaking right now (in terms of windows) as everything is aligned perfectly for them.  They will drop back to earth in no less than 1-2 seasons.  They will still be good, but not like this.


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    #3 Jatman20

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      Posted 10 March 2015 - 12:47 AM

      All year I've heard Curry would win because the Warriors record would be better than Harden and the Rockets. So they give it to a guy who's team finishes as the 8th seed. Both the Warriors and the Thunder are both loaded. Both teams before the season were picked to be top seeds; while the Rockets were projected to barely win 45-48 games since we lost Lin, Asik and Parsons. Just further evidence the fans, league (outside of Houston), opposing teams hate the Rockets (or fear/jealousy) if Westbrook wins. Interesting on the +/- ...........Westbrook +6.0......Harden +6.8....Curry +16.4

      Of the 3 one is not a point guard and we should not expect much from the assist standpoint.

      Edited by Jatman20, 10 March 2015 - 12:53 AM.

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      #4 thenit

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        Posted 10 March 2015 - 09:56 PM

        But two of those guys should not be expected to score since they are PGs. 

        You should look at usage and what they do on the court for the team on both sides etc.

        IMO its whoever finish the strongest down the stretch of the last 20 games will win the recency fallacy of the voters. 

        You can make a case for Russ, Harden, Curry, Davis, LBJ even Paul for votes. 

        A MVP is nice to have and I think Harden would love it, but I rather him win the finals MVP and the championship.


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        #5 Jatman20

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          Posted 11 March 2015 - 12:54 PM

          PG's are not immuned to scoring now-a-days....few shooting guards assist like Harden. MVP is most valuable player (to their team).

          *Curry has Bogut, Clay, Iggy, Lee, add Green and Livingston. Almost zero injuries on that team. I heard that their second team has 3 former starters (most of the season....well when Lee came back).
          Lee, Iggy were allstars while Livingston has been a starter in this league. That's where plus/minus when the supposed MVP is on/off court should be looked at.

          *Many predicted the Thunder would be a first or second seed in the West prior to the season starting. Thunder are 2-7 (or something like that) when Westbrook scores over 30 points.

          *Anthony Davis is great, but it goes along with Westbrook/team record......it's ok for Westbrook to be an 8th seed and win; but not Davis!!

          *LeBron had Irving and Love and they didn't win very well......then they traded for Mosgov and added JR. and Shumpert...so it's the added players that helped LeBron win. So they are the Co-MVP's. Without them they would still be losing. Are you kidding.....with Love and Kyrie. Well they were just put in place (this being their first year.....I don't care). He did take to GSW but looked bad vs Houston on national TV being 0-11 in the paint and missing all those FT's. The FGA's close to 40 attempts cost him the MVP in my opinion.

          * Harden has missed one day because of suspension....been consistently good with assists, rebounds, FT's, Points,.....add defense (steals/win shares) without TJ and D12 most of the year. Harden was winning before Brewer, Josh Smith arrived.

          Harden gets my vote.
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          #6 Jatman20

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            Posted 11 March 2015 - 01:10 PM

            Guess all stats will be looked at........just throwing this out there.

            Curry OWS 8.7 DWS 3.5,,,,,,LeBron OWS 5.8 DWS 2.2,,,,Westbrook OWS 5.5 DWS 2.5,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Harden OWS 9.5 DWS 3.5.

            Didn't look up A Davis......probably better than all of them?

            According to BasketballReference.com

            Edited by Jatman20, 11 March 2015 - 01:10 PM.

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            #7 Losthief

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            Posted 11 March 2015 - 06:47 PM

            one thing about curry is his on/off court +/- is still pretty staggering....that said they play alot of blowouts so that factors in.

             

            A/D needs to be in the conversation if Westbrook is in it imho. Whichever one gets to the playoffs should get consideration over the other. Especially now that A/D is down jrue holiday, t. evans, and r. anderson.


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            #8 Jatman20

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              Posted 11 March 2015 - 11:47 PM

              I completely agree with you.....I was impressed with Curry +/- on/off the court.....that starting lineup creates such a plus for Curry. LeBron is up there; but plays more games vs the East. Westbrook has a +9.3.......while Harden sports a nice +11.6.

              I would say it is a two player race: Harden and Curry......Thunder are 8 games behind Houston in the wins column or 8 games more in the loss column. Anything can happen.

              Curry has had an intact team most of the season while having a side-kick who allows Curry to take plays off and rest while on the court and off....Klay.
              While Harden has been without D12 and TJ for much of the season. Morey tweeted recently that the Rockets would be nowhere if not for Harden. I agree. The Rockets have basically gone much of this season without 3 starters from last year.....D12/TJ and Parsons. Curry has not had to adjust so much. IM humble O.

              Stats from 82games.com

              Edited by Jatman20, 11 March 2015 - 11:47 PM.

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              #9 Jatman20

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                Posted 12 March 2015 - 02:34 AM

                Westbrook +9.3 and Harden +11.6 that I noted is Net.

                If the season were to end today....I think Curry wins because I believe the voters go by wins much of the time. I just wonder how many wins the Warriors would have if Bogut had missed as many games as D12 and David Lee had missed as many as Terrence Jones. Grizz lost to Boston tonight. Rockets are back 1.5 from second seed (play Blazers later tonight). We could be 1 game out of second place in the West. Darn refs screwed us last week!! Oh well.

                Edited by Jatman20, 12 March 2015 - 02:39 AM.

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                #10 thejohnnygold

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                Posted 12 March 2015 - 04:20 PM

                Westbrook +9.3 and Harden +11.6 that I noted is Net.

                If the season were to end today....I think Curry wins because I believe the voters go by wins much of the time. I just wonder how many wins the Warriors would have if Bogut had missed as many games as D12 and David Lee had missed as many as Terrence Jones. Grizz lost to Boston tonight. Rockets are back 1.5 from second seed (play Blazers later tonight). We could be 1 game out of second place in the West. Darn refs screwed us last week!! Oh well.

                 

                It would be more like Bogut and Draymond Green rather than David Lee.

                 

                As for Westbrook, you can't keep referring to "voter bias" towards W/L records while you clearly hold that against Westbrook.  Look, I don't care who wins it--I was just voicing an opinion.  I think the whole thing is stupid, mostly.

                 

                Westbrook missed 14 games.  In those games OKC went 4-10.  Now, when you go directly to playoff seeding and W/L record don't ignore that portion of it.  Reverse those numbers (which is more than fair) and you get OKC with a record of 41-23 sitting in 6th place and on the doorstep of 3rd place with the rest of LAC, POR, HOU, and SAS.

                 

                Considering Durant's injuries, the complete roster overhaul, the widely held belief that Scott Brooks is one of the worst coaches in the league, and maybe Westbrook is doing more than people give him credit for.  Personally, I don't like their roster moves this season.  I think Presti screwed them pretty hard.

                 

                Speaking of "most valuable", Westbrook is leading the league in points, assist%, usg%, he is 2nd to AD in PER, while chipping in 7 rebs, 8 assists, and 2 steals in 33 mpg.  Like I said before--he is the team right now.  OKC would be sub-Philly level bad without him....Unless you think Augustin, Waiters, Singler, Ibaka, and Kanter is a playoff caliber line-up.


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                #11 majik19

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                  Posted 12 March 2015 - 05:01 PM

                  The biggest problems with Westbrook's candidacy are:

                  1) OKC's overall record and seeding

                  2) Missed 14 games, Harden's missed 1, Curry 0 (I think).

                   

                  but the biggest nail in the coffin...

                  1) Without Westbrook: 4-10 as mentioned above

                  2) With Westbrook, but without Durant: Only 12-10. and get this: Only 3-9 against teams with winning records, and 9-1 against sub-500 teams. 

                   

                  I know that's in the weeds a bit... but that's your MVP?

                   

                  I'm not sure if the MVP is Curry or Harden, but I still think it's one of those two. Harden has less help... People like to tout Curry's +/-, but he plays most of his minutes with Thompson... who also has a high +/-.  


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                  #12 Losthief

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                  Posted 12 March 2015 - 06:02 PM

                  curry's missed one too.


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                  LoSTHieF

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                  #13 thenit

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                    Posted 12 March 2015 - 11:55 PM

                    PG's are not immuned to scoring now-a-days....few shooting guards assist like Harden. MVP is most valuable player (to their team).
                    *Curry has Bogut, Clay, Iggy, Lee, add Green and Livingston. Almost zero injuries on that team. I heard that their second team has 3 former starters (most of the season....well when Lee came back).
                    Lee, Iggy were allstars while Livingston has been a starter in this league. That's where plus/minus when the supposed MVP is on/off court should be looked at.
                    *Many predicted the Thunder would be a first or second seed in the West prior to the season starting. Thunder are 2-7 (or something like that) when Westbrook scores over 30 points.
                    *Anthony Davis is great, but it goes along with Westbrook/team record......it's ok for Westbrook to be an 8th seed and win; but not Davis!!
                    *LeBron had Irving and Love and they didn't win very well......then they traded for Mosgov and added JR. and Shumpert...so it's the added players that helped LeBron win. So they are the Co-MVP's. Without them they would still be losing. Are you kidding.....with Love and Kyrie. Well they were just put in place (this being their first year.....I don't care). He did take to GSW but looked bad vs Houston on national TV being 0-11 in the paint and missing all those FT's. The FGA's close to 40 attempts cost him the MVP in my opinion.
                    * Harden has missed one day because of suspension....been consistently good with assists, rebounds, FT's, Points,.....add defense (steals/win shares) without TJ and D12 most of the year. Harden was winning before Brewer, Josh Smith arrived.
                    Harden gets my vote.


                    Everyone has a cae, even Paul has a boost if you look at his D that was referenced today on espn. Jordan seems like an overrated defender without Paul and people overrate hi. Because it looks nice when you are swatting balls into the crowd. It looks nice but help defending and positioning just doesn't have that crowd pleasing factor, same can go with hardens game. It's so efficient but it isn't pretty.
                    What I am saying is they all have a case and it's a special year once in every 25 years we see so many player play this well at the same time.

                    In regards of assist and scoring, it comes down to usage. Harden is a great passer but with his usage as other wing players they should rack up assists to get into the conversation.
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