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@  majik19 : (13 October 2015 - 09:09 PM) Apparently we claimed Arsalan Kazemi off waivers from the Hawks today... yet another undersized (6'7") power forward for Morey's cupboard.
@  Mario Peña : (10 October 2015 - 01:12 PM) If your part if the Red94 Fantasy Basketball League check the thread to vote for the date and time for the draft event. Thanks y'all!
@  jorgeaam : (07 October 2015 - 08:47 PM) Guys we need 1 more owner for the Red94 fantasy league, if interested please comment on the post in the fantasy basketball thread
@  slick shoes : (07 October 2015 - 06:50 PM) Kobe ranked one spot higher than Ariza? Is this based on legacy or...??
@  slick shoes : (07 October 2015 - 04:13 PM) It was hard to keep up with both the Astros and Rockets at the same time. Should be interesting on Thursday with the Texans and Astros on simultaneously.
@  Mario Peña : (07 October 2015 - 04:09 PM) It was fun to have the Rockets on last night! Right now I'm watching the Celtics versus Milan and Alessandro Gentile is impressive.
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 07:47 PM) Well, thinking twice about it, I'd rather have him score less and have the team as a whole do better. Lawson should take a lot of his load off
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 07:47 PM) Loving that, hope he hits 30 PPG this year
@  thejohnnygold : (06 October 2015 - 06:15 PM) Someone is feeling confident :) : LINK
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 05:54 PM) 10 Teams done, will need 2 more
@  Mario Peña : (06 October 2015 - 02:35 PM) Alright guys, if anyone is interested in joining the Red94 fantasy basketball league we could use one more player to get us to 10 teams (or three to get us to 12 teams). Just check the thread in the Fantasy Basketball forum. Thanks!
@  thejohnnygold : (05 October 2015 - 06:23 PM) I use leaguepass here in Austin with no problems...
@  skip 2 my lou : (05 October 2015 - 03:14 PM) Hey fellas, I'm a rocket fan but I live in the heart of Dallas. Does anybody know if I buy NBA Leaguepass if it's too close to be subject to blackouts?
@  Losthief : (02 October 2015 - 02:24 AM) tks jg
@  thejohnnygold : (29 September 2015 - 05:16 AM) FYI, it was media day today. Interviews are up at NBA.com
@  slick shoes : (23 September 2015 - 06:37 PM) kind of late in the day but NBATV is broadcasting classis Rockets games all day today.
@  SadLakerFan : (16 September 2015 - 04:37 AM) Man, as a Laker fan, I'm learning how little you care about the off season when your team sucks. Anyway, a quick moment to remember Moses. Still remember watching the 81 team as a kid - losing record, NBA Finals. I would have cried w/joy if they could have beaten the Celtics.
@  jorgeaam : (15 September 2015 - 08:30 PM) http://bleacherrepor...ist-after-crash
@  jorgeaam : (15 September 2015 - 08:30 PM) So to celebrate his new contract, Montrezl Harrell saved someone's life on monday
@  thejohnnygold : (14 September 2015 - 04:36 PM) A good article from Blinebury talking about when Hakeem and Moses used to play in the park. LINK

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A Donatas Motiejunas Roundtable.


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#1 Red94

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    Posted 14 January 2015 - 09:54 PM

    New post: A Donatas Motiejunas Roundtable.
    By: Paul McGuire

    McGuire: As Rahat put it after Monday’s game against Brooklyn:

     

    https://twitter.com/RedNinetyFour/status/554833158764376064

     

    Motiejunas’s development is up there with “Harden playing defense and having an actual mid-range game” as one of the best positive surprises of this season, and serves as yet another example of how I don’t know what I’m talking about. I was extremely pessimistic about Motiejunas at the start of this season. I was not convinced he could stop fouling, and I do not believe that a true post game, Motiejunas’s greatest strength, is that important a weapon in a NBA which has gone away from it.

     

    Well, Motiejunas has certainly proven me wrong in a post game’s value, and he grabbed consecutive double-doubles against the Nets and Jazz for what Bill Worrell said was the first time in his career. He already has more Win Shares at this point in the season than he accumulated in his previous two years combined.

     

    So, what do you think about Motiejunas’s development and the role which he should play on this team? We are not looking at a future star, after all - or are we?

     

    Walker: Not to turn down the music too much, but he’s almost certainly not a future star. That’s not an insult, just boring old reality. He’s a wonderful fit with this particular Rockets team, and he’s growing into an excellent role player, but stars are few and far between. It’s still possible, I suppose, that he’s the next Paul Millsap, but Millsap isn’t even really a star. He doesn’t need to be, anyway. If he keeps playing like this, D-Mo’s gonna stay in the starting lineup, help with a deep playoff run and get paid some serious paper pretty soon.

     

    Huq: Why is he not a future star?  WHY!?!  He is a 24-year-old 7 footer with one of the best post arsenals in the league, ability to pass off the dribble (sort of), while providing statistically way-above-average defense and rim protection.  If I were still in Houston and attending games, I would make it my personal mission to get it through to him to rebuild his shooting form this summer.  If he added the range he was initially touted for, he would be absolutely deadly.  But back to the question.  What young big is doing what he is doing right now....for a winning team, nonetheless.  Motiejunas saved the Houston season!

     

    Dover: Remember last night during the Brooklyn telecast when they put up a list of the point guards in the Western Conference? Let’s do the same thing with Power Forwards because it’s almost as daunting. Aldridge, Randolph, Nowitzki, Griffin, Duncan, Davis, Ibaka. Add Draymond Green to that list and Motiejunas is probably the 9th best starting power forward in the conference (give or take Derrick Favors and/or Kenneth Faried). Not a bad starting point, and certainly much better than where he was at the beginning of the season, but there’s still a long way to go before he’s worthy of top billing like some of those others.

     

    Motiejunas is never going to be higher than third banana for this team. That’s fine - your third best player is still really important if you want to perform at championship level. But if he wants to be a ‘star’ (I really hate using that term but that’s a discussion for another time) it’s not going to happen while he has to grab the occasional sliver of limelight from behind Howard and Harden. For now I feel like we should embrace the role he’s currently in - providing some offensive punch from the post when required and otherwise just filling in the gaps as needed.

     

    McGuire: I may or may not have made that star comment just to watch Rahat react.

     

    Richard: Man this is the second time Paul does a roundtable on my posting day. I demand a gift basket in return. At this point, I think everyone agrees that Dwight Howard is not a particularly wonderful offensive option with his present usage. Since Harden is our first offensive option, and Harden driving and kicking to a shooter is our second offensive option, does that make DMo our third offensive option?

     

    Could one of the unseen advantages of DMo be that he’s taking away possessions from Howard in the post? I mean, if we agree that Howard in the post is a big opportunity cost, then DMo in the post is addition by subtraction, along with whatever added value he has by himself. Another thing worth mentioning is that, if Howard is not awkwardly maneuvering the post, he’s free to roam the offensive boards. That has to be worth something.

     

    McGuire: I prefer looking at things in terms of options as opposed to who is a star player or not, and I think Motiejunas is Houston’s best non-Harden option. That said, Motiejunas’s development does not mean the Rockets could use another shot creator. One reason why I remain doubtful of the role of the traditional big man post-player is because it’s just harder to get players like that the ball in today’s NBA. Motiejunas’s post skills do nothing to diminish that - who can forget what a pain it was to watch the Rockets trying to get Yao Ming the ball? (Dear God, Yao hasn’t played relevant basketball in over half a decade now).

     

    Still, how does our frontcourt rotation look going forward, especially when Terrence Jones finally returns? I was probably the most nervous out of us about signing Smith, and there are plenty of things I still don’t like about his play. His passing reminds me of Terrence Williams in “it works really well when you don’t turn the ball over”. His shooting is problematic not just in the shot itself, but because Smith hangs around the perimeter way too much in general. But he has had been alright despite everything, and for once this team might actually have the luxury of depth.

     

    Huq: Forrest, that was really weird when they put Beverley among those other point guards.  Oh, also...

     

    https://twitter.com/RedNinetyFour/status/555196777008492545

     

    https://twitter.com/RedNinetyFour/status/555197096672755712

     

    https://twitter.com/RedNinetyFour/status/555197513079066624

     

    Carry on.

     

    Walker: Donatas is for sure taking away possessions from Howard in the post, and it’s definitely an advantage, but I don’t think it’s unseen. That’s like boon number one that he’s offering, number two being to keep Josh Smith on the bench. He’s in beast mode right now, but that doesn’t mean he’ll stay in beast mode forever. This might be heresy to imply, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Jones gets that starting spot back. Motiejunas is a credit to the basketball powers of Lithuania for sure, but if we might recall, the Rockets (in an admittedly tiny sample size) ran roughshod over everyone with Jones in the lineup. Jones is still a fantastic fit next to Dwight, even if Donatas is establishing himself as another great fit. Having too many usable power forwards might end up (again, always) as Houston’s biggest roster issue going forward.

     

    Felker:  As someone who always had an inflated opinion of Motiejunas, his development hasn’t been a huge shock.  I always hoped he’d develop into a Boris Diaw-type: a big man with good feet, passing skills and the ability to develop from long range.  Motiejunas used to play with “happy feet”, and you could tell his body was always too eager to make a play before his brain had digested the play in front of him (hence all the foul trouble and awkward floaters).  You hear it all the time with young guys, “the game is finally starting to slow down” for D-Mo.

     

    I think his role going forward all comes down to Terrence Jones; when will he be back and how long will it take for him to get into the swing of things (I don’t know how similar Jones’ injury is to Carson Palmer’s shoulder troubles, but it seems like the nerve could just “wake up” one of these days).  I certainly lean towards Walker’s point that Jones should get his starting spot once he’s 100%.  A starting five with James Harden in the lineup doesn’t need much help scoring, and I actually like a second unit with D-Mo's and J-Smoove’s passing combined with Corey Brewer as a run-and-gun bench brigade that can also defend.  Hypothetically, Motiejunas could be the backup-5 and still close out games as the crunchtime power forward.

     

    I know you guys like him taking a few possessions away from Dwight, but doesn’t D-Mo posting up with the starters mean Harden is standing 25 feet from the basket without the ball?  Wouldn’t the entire team be better served if Motiejunas was the Sixth Man and the focal point of the second unit while the stars catch wind?

     

    Li: We all say “second unit” like basketball coaches have hockey lines. Obviously that’s not the case. Currently James Harden averages over 36 MPG. Any player coming off the bench has, at most, 12 MPG without Harden, during which he can lead the second unit. And if we plan on playing both DMo and Harden together during crunch time, that 12 MPG is, at most, 7 MPG. Basically, people are going to be playing with James Harden. And that’s a good thing!

     

    I’m perfectly OK with DMo taking possessions away from Harden. If he didn’t, Howard would be. And as good as Harden is, the Rockets aren’t going to get very far as a one man team. The idea of a valuable bench player, those 6th men of the year types, is actually misleading because those types (Manu, JR Smith when he had a pulse, Harden himself on the Thunder) actually play ~30 MPG, most of it is spent with the starters. If DMo does come off the bench, he better have that type of playing time, or else I just give up.


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    #2 thenit

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      Posted 14 January 2015 - 10:21 PM

      "but if we might recall, the Rockets (in an admittedly tiny sample size) ran roughshod over everyone with Jones in the lineup."

       

      Totally disagree that we ran roughshod over everyone with jones. He had amazing games but he feasted on poor teams where he would get 25 + but would disappear against the better teams with good PFs. Defensively he couldn't cover the guys in the West. He would get eaten up by Griffin, Love, LMA, Randolph, especially the larger PFs, would just back him in and have a 4 foot lay in. Dmo has played Zbo twice and stopped him thanks to his bigger frame, and played well against davis and Griffin. Dmo is sounder defensively and in this small sample size been a lot more consistent giving us 12-16 points a game on around 10 shots while Jones could have a great night or a poor night in back to back. Jones might give you the great block but is poorer help defender but better rebounder but we don't need that if we have howard there. Dmo has a higher ceiling and also plays better defence while having a better positioning, his biggest flaw before was that he took too many fouls ( I think it was because he rarely played last season and have to look over his shoulder he over extended himself.) but that has been rectified.


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      #3 thejohnnygold

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      Posted 14 January 2015 - 11:15 PM

      @thenit, that was last year.  He didn't face any of the guys who gave him trouble last year.  It's a question mark.  What's not a question mark is that the "feasting" he was doing last year on bad competition had taken a step up.  This is what he did to Boston:

       

       

      The only thing he didn't showcase in that video is his improved defense and mid-range shot.  I'm not sure he should immediately step back into the starting role, but we should definitely get him back on the floor and see where he is at.

       

      I can't say enough about D-MO.  He is my second favorite player to watch on our team right now after Harden.


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      #4 NorEastern

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        Posted 14 January 2015 - 11:42 PM

        Using a sample size of four games to make a judgement on Jones this season is almost a criminal misuse of data. Last season provided a reasonable statistical sample of Jones' abilities, and xRAPM data puts him in a poor light. It is at times difficult to credit a player with great defense when they are not skying for several blocks a game, but a cursory examination of SportVU data should clear up where D-Mo sits quickly. In my eyes he is looking like a smaller quicker Hibbert with much more offensive game.

         

        Jones will probably get a chance to win back his starters role, but I cannot see that happening this season. Please don't get me wrong though. I hope Jones gets back quickly. When he is back to 100% he will improve the Rockets team.

         

        Oh and usual guys, a great read. Thanks.


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        #5 thenit

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          Posted 15 January 2015 - 02:13 AM

          @JG

           

          Yes we don't know what he can do this year, but we know what Dmo can. The 4 games he played against are all teams with very poor record and weak 4s. Utah, LAL, Bos, Phi, and he had a dud game, 2 ok game and 1 big game. Not saying that its inconsistent but what he did the 4 games doesn't tell us much. So everything I based it on was last year. But even last year there was a game where DMo helped the team win by coming in and shutting down Zbo. Despite Dmo commiting a lot of fouls last year, his D was very good when he was on the floor. Jones D has been below average due to his size and positioning. Even when Howard was out Dmo held down the fort in the middle playing with dorsey and black. No bev either for a stretch. 

           

          Jones is almost like Lin, he would have a great game one day scoring 30 and next one he would score 7. So when you are that inconsistent you need  a stabilizing D which he doesn't provide. The games DMo has played against elite bigs this year he has done very well, even games without dwight. So even when he has an off night he helps the team. Jones still has upside, but right now I don't think Jones should start when he comes back (not saying that you are advocating this) that its Dmo's to lose.


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          #6 cointurtlemoose

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            Posted 15 January 2015 - 03:42 AM

            I <3 DMo.

             

            As Mr. Felker put it, saying the game is "slowing down" for DMo seems like the perfect description.  Defensively, he just seems more comfortable and more proactive. And offensively, he's picking his spots extremely well, showing a hugely improved ability to know when to back down, when to pass out, when to repost, when to roll/pop, etc... and of course, developing that deadly and unassuming flip shot hasn't hurt.

             

            In our better moments, I've liked the frontcourt rotation patterns we've been settling into lately. In our worser moments, I long for TJones' return to give us some more offensive firepower for the starts of the 2nd and 4th quarters. Either Jones or DMo could both fulfill that role well, and I don't really see either one being too picky about not starting. 

             

            As it is now, I find it hard to see Jones getting 100%, and then catching up and surpassing DMo's newfound fit with the starters/Dwight by the time the postseason cracks the horizon.


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            #7 Jatman20

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              Posted 15 January 2015 - 06:11 PM

              It's unfortunate Jones developed a nerve problem this season. D-Mo has taken advantage of the situation to his credit. Huq highlighted some of the defensive flaws the Rockets exhibited during the Orlando game. Everybody probably had a let-down knowing they play the Thunder on National TV the next night. I discount the games Josh arrived when it disrupted our defensive rotations because Josh didn't have practice. It was our transition defense that cost us games during that stretch. Ariza, Brewer and Beverley were the only ones getting back and rarely at the same time (fast break points allowed were too high.....and easy).

              I'm hard on D-Mo because I feel he doesn't do as much as Jones did across the board; yet D-Mo receives greater accolades. The great numbers posted of D-Mo in the post has not equated to more points per game vs Jones this year or last year. IMO Jones would be up there with D12 as top rim protectors since Beverley may know the defensive scheme better and the arrival of peremiter defenders such as Brewer and Ariza have improved our defense as a whole. Pau Gasol and Nene have torn up both Josh Smith and D-Mo recently. Huq, can you break down which PF's are destroying our defense in the near future (since D-Mo was reinserted as the starter). I'm guessing it's PF's with range of 10 feet or greater that have a center that forces D12 to stay close. Ibaka, Griffin, LMA, Pau, Nene. It's tough now-a-days as the Cavaliers had M. Morris tearing up K Love; which forced Love out of the game in the 4th quarter recently. McHale may be right when he says it doesn't matter who starts....rather who finishes. Nice to get Jones in playing form again, if nothing else to help with game time situations.......between D-mo, Smith and Jones. We should be ok.
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              #8 thenit

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                Posted 15 January 2015 - 09:27 PM

                Dmo hasn't really been destroyed one on one on most games this season and going back to last year his xrpm has always been better than Jones by a mile.  Offensively they have very similar numbers.

                Per 36 minutes I am using Jones numbers from last year and Dmo's this year.

                Jones is averaging 16ppg 9.1 reb 1.5 ass shooting 54 % on the floor with 17fga.

                DMO is averaging 14ppg 7.8 reb 2.1 ass shooting 51.5 % on the floor with 11.3 fga

                 

                They are very similar numberwise. While DMo takes almost 6 attempts less and score 2p less a game. So if he took the same amount of shots he would get more ppg than jones. The biggest difference is that DMo has been more successful guarding the better 4s in the league so far due to the size. Jones might give you the crazy dunk or block that catches the eye, but DMO positioning and strength gives our team a better chance against those guys who just pushes jones to the rim due to the size disadvantage. The reason most people think Jones scored more points is because he has more memorable games where he goes for 25+ but he also scores a lot of 5-10 ppg outings. Dmo has been very consisntent on getting between 10-18 a game for a long period. He also proved that he was able to protect the paint without bev and Dwight for a stretch.

                Dmo is just efficient on both sides of the floor. Jones was spectacular last year, and I think he will be huge for us off the bench if he comes back, but he can't really create his own shot or for others. He just fit into our high pace offense the past two years but in a half court offense and slowdown pace, I just think Dmo is the better fit and defender. I don't know who will be better in 5 years or have a better career but for us this year, Dmo is my guy. He was clueless last year on offense and commited silly fouls, but when he was on the floor he sported a better D and RAPM than jones, and could guard the elite guys better than Jones did
                 


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                #9 Jatman20

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                  Posted 15 January 2015 - 10:47 PM

                  You can't judge D-Mo and Jones by this year and last......that's the mistake. Lin and Parsons poor defense are what Jones had in front of him. With them gone our defense has improved; throw in a more focused Harden on defense. It's like night and day from this year to last year. The emphasis was on offense.....this year on defense. It's pointless to argue any of this until Jones gets healthy! Hope he does. D-Mo may not feel able to go 36 minutes a game.....so don't project what may not be obtainable. Consistency is what I want out of any of them. If D-Mo gives me 15-16 points a game like I hoped TJ would have this season......then the job is his. Going by the numbers so far Terrence is the better rebounder and shot blocker and FT shooter. D-Mo needs to get better with consistency in those categories. I refrain from using the race card!! Whoever puts up the better numbers should start or play more minutes.......regardless of race. Each will get their chances vs the Griffin, David Lee, Draymond Green, Ibaka, LMA, Milsap, Horford, Nene, Gasol (both). Last year ZBo destroyed both Jones and D-Mo......D-Mo used his body better and knew what to expect this go around. D-Mo didn't bite on the up and unders or pump fakes and towered over the 6'8" ZBo. Duncan also is less of a threat to get around D-Mo this year. Guys with range vs D-Mo will be the proof in the pudding. Someone before told me that D-Mo held his own vs Griffin earlier this year.....to that I don't know (30 points in 30 minutes......a point per minute is not good). No more Black or Dorsey to blame....the responsibility falls on D-Mo,Josh,Jones.
                  Hopefully Griffin doesn't get a point a minute.
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                  #10 thenit

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                    Posted 16 January 2015 - 01:39 AM

                    First of all the stats per 36 min is a production stat not what they should play each game.

                    Yes the D is better this year, and I'm not attributing it to DMo, but he played well against Zbo and other when he did get the chance even last year. I think a lot of people can agree that Dmo always played well defensively since the 2nd half of last year.

                    The problem is we don't need the rebounds and the difference is a little over a rebound. The shotblocking is why north americans doesn't understand that its eye catching but it still not better than disciplined D. A layup and a ferocious dunk is still 2 points. Thats why a lot of casual fans were up in arms on how Gasol won the DPOY. Because he could guard anyone in the post, excellent positioning and body control with high IQ. Guy rarely leaves 2 inches of air when he goes up, but he still was the best big men defensively. 

                    If you actually watch the games, Griffin was held by Dmo, but when he sat Griffin feasted. He also played well against ZBo last year so he didn't get destroyed and he did it again thisyear. Maybe if you watched the game more closily and stop refering to PER and box scores, you will notice the D.

                     

                    In regards of its night and day, we played at a higher pace last year so those 36 min, we got off more shots made and missed which results in more rebound and points opp etc. But thats not a valid argument for me either but its the best comparison we had this year and you can't argue that Jones has the same tools as DMo in a half court offense. On the other side of the coin I can't argue that Dmo is better on  fast breaks and athletiscm on Jones. But those numbers were the only comparison.

                     

                    Consistency favors Dmo by a mile even if you just look at the game logs.


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                    #11 Mitchell Felker

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                      Posted 16 January 2015 - 08:39 AM

                      My final thoughts that didn't make the round table in time for publication.

                      Felker: The point of my second unit comment wasn’t to suggest he’d be running a large portion of the games’ minutes as the focal point, but more an idea that for those 12 minutes when Harden isn’t on the floor could maximize whatever potential D-Mo has as a shot creator for the rest of the offense.
                      It seems we all agree that Motiejunas is the Rockets’ second best offensive option after Harden’s multifaceted attack, so, as the Spurs have always done with Tony Parker and Manu, why not stack his minutes so that he can carry the load while Beard sits? He should definitely be playing 30 minutes a game, but when he logs those 30 can really change his impact. Bill Simmons said recently in a podcast with Zack Lowe (they were discussing the possibility of the Grizzlies trading Kosta Koufas) that you can’t win a game in the 12-13 minutes that your starters are off the floor, but you can lose it. The bench has a lot of key pieces, but none that can create their own shot consistently. I really like a lineup with D-Mo, Smoove, Papa, Brewer and Guard X against any bench unit in the NBA, save for the Bulls. It allows D-Mo all the touches he needs to do his thing (against mostly-backups no less), and has plenty of perimeter defense to help protect the rim sans Dwight.
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                      #12 marbony81110

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                      Posted 16 January 2015 - 01:02 PM

                      I understand D.Mo and Jones play the same position, but this defensive comparison is ridiculous. D.Mo is a true PF/C. Jones is a slightly oversized SF. Of course D.Mo is going to guard the 4/5 better. Jones would get torched by the better and larger PFs because he is undersized. D.Mo isn't. D.Mo can maintain his position while Jones cannot.
                      Either player could start. I like the idea of D.Mo anchoring the second unit as a steady and reliable post presence. I could also see Jones being the post presence (offensively), penetrator and creator on the second unit. Jones handles the ball like a guard and has good vision.
                      I am happy with what D.Mo is doing, but let's please forget the notion that he is the definite starter or miles better than Jones. They are two diffirent players with two different playing styles. We aren't comparing two TRUE PFs like a Griffin and Aldridge. We are trying to compare a true center/power forward to an undersized 4 or slightly oversized 3.
                      I think matchups and performance will determine who starts, finishes, and plays more minutes. I like Jones and D.Mo. I think Jones would be more productive with the starters than the bench and D.Mo more productive with the bench. However, you can't go wrong with either player. The bottom line is this team is stacked. All that's left is to figure out everyone's role and fit.
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                      #13 thejohnnygold

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                      Posted 16 January 2015 - 07:01 PM

                      I was going to stay out of this.....but here I am  :rolleyes:

                       

                      Look, D-Mo is playing as well as anyone could want for us.  He is filling that role perfectly.  There is no denying all the positives he brings to the table.

                       

                      The discussion isn't whether or not D-MO is awesome.  We KNOW he is awesome.

                       

                      The thing I can't understand is that no one seems to acknowledge the possibility that Jones was making the same leap from last year to this one that D-Mo has made.  He got to play 4 games and, regardless of how you read the box scores (I think they are very good--especially the ORB), he played really, really well in all 4.  He looked like the perfect 4 to play alongside our starters.

                       

                      The reality is we have two really good, young PF's here.  They are both on rookie deals through this season and the following 2 years after that.

                       

                      I don't think anyone is saying Jones should automatically be handed the starting spot as soon as he's healthy.  That doesn't make much sense.  I do think he should see the court and get some run with the starters after he is re-acclimated just to see what we've got.  More options is always a good thing.  I think Jones was making a leap (the same as Motie) and to continue using last season's lenses to view him misses the mark the same way it would miss the mark on how much D-Mo has improved.

                       

                      Let's hope he can get healthy.  That's all that matters.  Fitting him into the line up is a good problem to have.


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                      #14 Losthief

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                      Posted 16 January 2015 - 10:24 PM

                      At what point do you think DMO's post game will draw the better/bigger post defender regardless of matchup (he's actually taller than dwight anyway, so if you view as dwight at the 4 and dmo at the 5 like the memhet okur jazz it might be easier to see), and what if anything will this do for dwights post game?

                       

                      I bring this up cause i noticed the nets used garnett on dwight to open up and plumlee (the larger/taller) on dmo and dwight was easily handling garnett. He struggled against brook lopez's size when the nets went to two 7 footers, but not many teams have a outside shooting 7 footer with the size to put up with dwight (like brook lopez which sucks a bit for us that okc is getting him).


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                      #15 marbony81110

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                      Posted 16 January 2015 - 10:35 PM

                      I was going to stay out of this.....but here I am  :rolleyes:

                       

                      Look, D-Mo is playing as well as anyone could want for us.  He is filling that role perfectly.  There is no denying all the positives he brings to the table.

                       

                      The discussion isn't whether or not D-MO is awesome.  We KNOW he is awesome.

                       

                      The thing I can't understand is that no one seems to acknowledge the possibility that Jones was making the same leap from last year to this one that D-Mo has made.  He got to play 4 games and, regardless of how you read the box scores (I think they are very good--especially the ORB), he played really, really well in all 4.  He looked like the perfect 4 to play alongside our starters.

                       

                      The reality is we have two really good, young PF's here.  They are both on rookie deals through this season and the following 2 years after that.

                       

                      I don't think anyone is saying Jones should automatically be handed the starting spot as soon as he's healthy.  That doesn't make much sense.  I do think he should see the court and get some run with the starters after he is re-acclimated just to see what we've got.  More options is always a good thing.  I think Jones was making a leap (the same as Motie) and to continue using last season's lenses to view him misses the mark the same way it would miss the mark on how much D-Mo has improved.

                       

                      Let's hope he can get healthy.  That's all that matters.  Fitting him into the line up is a good problem to have.

                       

                      I agree with everything you said...that is all. I think people are forgetting how good Jones is and that he was undoubtedly making another leap before his injury.


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                      #16 thenit

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                        Posted 17 January 2015 - 02:52 AM

                        @JG

                         

                        I agree we have two Pfs with great potential. My argument is that Dmo D and size makes him such a better fit to defend the opponents and that his leap this year has been kind of proven with great consistency. Jones may have made a big leap as well but the signs he showed was pretty good overall in those 4 games, but those were all against weak teams and a small sample size. 

                         

                        If and when Jones returns, I think he should get a good run with the team and get sufficient minutes to play himself into rhytm and shape, I just don't think even if he gets in and plays well, he will struggle mightily because he is undersized as Marbony alluded to and we have a lot of those big PFs in the West and I can't think of any playoff team that doesn't have that big presence at the 4 pos except for Pho.


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                        #17 marbony81110

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                        Posted 17 January 2015 - 08:00 AM

                        @thenit

                        I agree D.Mo's size makes him a better defender against those bigger, back to the basket bigs. I say let the matchups determine who plays. If they are playing a 4 like Ibaka who stays mainly on the outside, let Jones burn him (D.Mo can as well in a different way). If they are playing against a 4 like Griffin or Z.Bo., it has to be D.Mo. because Jones will struggle defensively.
                        I think either one of them can play Aldridge since he isn't that big and will score regardless of who is guarding him. Let's be honest, there is no solution for him. You just have to contain him and hope he misses his shots.
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                        #18 thejohnnygold

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                        Posted 17 January 2015 - 02:56 PM

                        @JG

                         

                        I agree we have two Pfs with great potential. My argument is that Dmo D and size makes him such a better fit to defend the opponents and that his leap this year has been kind of proven with great consistency. Jones may have made a big leap as well but the signs he showed was pretty good overall in those 4 games, but those were all against weak teams and a small sample size. 

                         

                        If and when Jones returns, I think he should get a good run with the team and get sufficient minutes to play himself into rhytm and shape, I just don't think even if he gets in and plays well, he will struggle mightily because he is undersized as Marbony alluded to and we have a lot of those big PFs in the West and I can't think of any playoff team that doesn't have that big presence at the 4 pos except for Pho.

                         

                        You can keep repeating the same things, it doesn't enhance them.  Size and consistency from D-Mo.  Got it.  Weak teams, small sample size, and last season's defensive failure for Jones.  Got it.  You may be right, but the reality is you don't know.  The same arguments you use to bolster your stance undermine it as we don't know how he will fare against the better PF's in the league--we didn't get to see it.

                         

                        Last year was last year.  If we base everything in this manner then James Harden will forever flame out in the playoffs, right?

                         

                        Size is great, but athleticism can balance that.  There are plenty of successful 6' 9" players--even defensively.  Josh Smith comes to mind.  Taj Gibson and Zach Randolph too.  Paul Millsap is 6' 8" and is (allegedly) a solid defender.

                         

                        My point is height helps, but is not required.  Jones has all the tools that allow a player who is giving up a few inches to remain competitive--he just needs time to figure out how to use them.  Quickness, agility, a 7' 2" wingspan, and 250+ pounds of muscle with a low base are good tools.  He needs to learn to use them is all.

                         

                        Given that he has played 99 total games (75 as a starter) I think it is a bit premature to write him off as incapable.  In essence, this would have been his sophomore year and you want him to be an elite defender already?  You want him to shut down players that nobody shuts down?  Seems a bit unreasonable.

                         

                        What does seem reasonable is what Marbony said above, as well as others.  Match ups.  Skill sets.  Flexibility.  We all love D-Mo....why can't we love Jones too?  It's ok to forgive him for last year's playoffs.  It wasn't all his fault.  That was a rookie (essentially) trying to hold his own against one of the league's elite scorers in his prime.  It's called a bad match-up.  Imagine a rookie center trying to defend Dwight Howard in his prime in a 7 game series......yeah....that was Terrence.

                         

                        Maybe he doesn't ever get there.  Either way, we both agree that, due to our sample size from this year, it is a big unknown.


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                        #19 08huangj

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                          Posted 18 January 2015 - 12:12 AM

                          According to McHale, Jones is on the final stages of getting back on the court. "About ten days to two weeks."

                          The depth of this team is getting deeper and deeper. I can't wait for Jones' return. He's supposed to be a breakout player this year. He's gonna make the leap!


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                          #20 timetodienow1234567

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                          Posted 18 January 2015 - 03:11 AM

                          Will jones get any PT? I don't see how unless they take away some of DMos or Josh Smiths minutes. I think he'll be lucky to average around 10 a game unless one of them gets injured.
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