103 replies to this topic

[rockets best fan]

rahat :
yes I do think olando will do the deal for cap relief. after all it may only be a rental. in addition they trade howard out of their comference they get martin and scola who (while we are tired of them) are good nba vets to another team. it's not like they don't put up fair numbers. also they get a good prospect in morris (don;t forget he was a lottery pick last year) also they get 2 #1 draft picks in addition to their own, and to top it all off they get cap relief to prevent them from having to pay the luxury tax.........................when the circus starts again in olando next year the rockets offer will look pretty good to them. also if they don't want kevin martin we can always trade him to minnesota for beasley and their 2014 draft pick and pass that on to orlando instead

[ChinaConor]

It seems like most of the offers on the page are overly optimistic as far as dealing for Howard. Didn't Orlando have salary relief available if they traded at the deadline? They didn't take the Nets offer of Brook Lopez, picks and salary relief. Why would Lowry and a bunch of late picks/cheap roles players that aren't essential? After all, I've seen someone advocating trading Martin for a future first round pick and salary relief. So why would Orlando want him? Scola is 31. He's probably only average at his position. He hasn't been as good this season and last season fans and columnists were arguing whether his defense liabilities outweighed his offensive contributions. Does he help Orlando rebuild?

I think Orlando would be better jumpstarting their rebuilding project with Portland's two picks and Batum. I would imagine Portland jumps at the chance to pair Aldridge and Howard together and I think three good pieces are better than 1 good piece and 4 mediocre ones.

If the Rockets are going to pry Howard away from Orlando, I think it's going to hurt. I would guess at least Lowry, Chandler, Montenjunas, Morris and 3 1sts (since the Rockets' controlled picks are all out of the lottery).

[rockets best fan]

ChinaConor:
the reason olando don't want to trade howard to new jersey is because he would be in their conference and they would have to compete directly against him 4 times a year. also on their offer you get brook lopez and some draft picks but little else, but by the time this plays out in orlando again it's likely d william is gone so they will have lost their apeal to howard. I don't think orlando will be in position to demand the type of package that utah got for d williams because at the time utah traded d william he was going to be under contract 2 more years howard won't he will be able to leave at the end of the year. that cuts dramaticly into what you need to give them to do a deal. now as for portland. I don't think they trade for him because howard wants a large market team so they know they have little chance to keep him there. I think they are thinking along the lines of this (if we have to give up batum it will be for a piece we can hang on to), and howard doesn't meet that. I think the rockets major competitor is the lakers they have players orlando wants but can not offer cap relief. also while we don't hold scola and martin in high regards here that doesn't mean they don't have value in the league. besides orlando knows that when they trade howard there's going to be some lean years ahead and these 2 vets can cut the rebuild time down.

[Rahat Huq]

ChinaConor:

I think the reports on that Nets package were that the Magic didn't want Dwight to remain in conference. Lopez also got hurt.

As for Portland, I agree that that package you put together would be far better than any Rockets package. But there hadn't been any reports that Portland was willing to rent Howard. I think there are also several other teams out there that can put together better packages than Houston, but they also hadn't been reported to be willing to take a risk on a rental. Of the teams stated to be willing to rent, Houston has the best assets left, now that Monta has already been dealt.

[ChinaConor]

Rockets Best Fan:

It may be that the Orlando doesn't get better offers because other teams are not willing to risk renting him.

Maybe the Rockets will get lucky. But remember that the Howard-less Magic are going to be awful. I don't think they'll want Scola or Martin. Neither of them have any value to a rebuilding team. So at least I think they'll demand young pieces.

[ChinaConor]

Rahat Huq:
I really enjoy your site. Maybe you're right that Portland or another team won't make a big offer. But if a big offer doesn't come I would expect Orlando to keep him for the year and just take the cap space.

[rockets best fan]

ChinaConor:
martin's contract is cap relief for orlando. he will make almost 13 mil next year in the last year of his deal. they don't want the player they want the contract for cap savings the following year. you need scola in the deal to make the money work. the up side of this deal for them is they get morris who was a lottery pick last year and 2 #1 draft picks and still get the cap saving as if howard had left. also for reasons I stated above orlando will not be dealing from a position of power. if they don't get rid of howard by the start of the season their in trouble because as the season goes along they will be offered less and less for howard

[ChinaConor]

Rockets Best Fan:

Maybe you are right, but I think that your offer is pretty terrible for Orlando. If that's the best they can do, I think they would just keep him for one more season and let him leave as a free agent. One year of Howard plus a small chance to resign him is better than trading him for such an offer. If Howard leaves they'll be bad whether they get a couple of late round picks or lot. And since they didn't already trade him, I think that's how they feel about it. I think they'll keep him unless they get a good offer.

At least even if they would consider your deal, wouldn't they check with other teams around the league. Your offer is low enough that I think most teams with cap space (so they could absorb Howard's salary) and even those without it would be willing to offer more. Don't you think Portland trades the 6th pick in the draft (from the Nets) and say their 2015 1st rounder for Howard?

[ChinaConor]

I think a good target for the Rockets would be Josh Smith. A Josh Smith for Lowry and Dalembert seems to work for both teams. The Hawks desperately need a point guard who can distribute the ball and Hortford always wants to play power forward anyway.

Lowry at the point, Teague as a scoring option off the bench, Hortford at power forward and a Dalembert/Pachulia center combo is better than Teague at the point, filler on the bench, Smith at power forward and Hortford/Pachulia at center.

For the Rockets they could resign Dragic to play the point and they would have a very good two-way power forward. Right now the knock on Smith is his efficiency, but who knows how he'd play with a competent point guard. Even as he is now, he'd still be the Rockets best player and in my opinion is the best player in the trade.

[Rahat Huq]

Rahat Huq:
I really enjoy your site. Maybe you're right that Portland or another team won't make a big offer. But if a big offer doesn't come I would expect Orlando to keep him for the year and just take the cap space.

Thanks - always good to see new readers. As far as them preferring to ride it out, I think that's the most likely scenario. The only way he gets dealt, I think, is if he demands a trade or flat out tells them he's not coming back.

[rockets best fan]

I think a good target for the Rockets would be Josh Smith. A Josh Smith for Lowry and Dalembert seems to work for both teams. The Hawks desperately need a point guard who can distribute the ball and Hortford always wants to play power forward anyway.

Lowry at the point, Teague as a scoring option off the bench, Hortford at power forward and a Dalembert/Pachulia center combo is better than Teague at the point, filler on the bench, Smith at power forward and Hortford/Pachulia at center.

For the Rockets they could resign Dragic to play the point and they would have a very good two-way power forward. Right now the knock on Smith is his efficiency, but who knows how he'd play with a competent point guard. Even as he is now, he'd still be the Rockets best player and in my opinion is the best player in the trade.

I disagree with you on howard, but I do think josh smith is also a worthy target for the rockets to pursue. I just wouldn't give up lowry to do it. atlanta is in salary cap hell next year and the year after that. they have 61 mil comitted to six players. joe johnson's contract is killing them so they will be looking to dump some salary next year. they are looking for a trade of draft picks because they don't want to take back contracts or it puts them in the same hole as b4. maybe I would send them something like this martin+draft pick next year from dallas+our 2014 first rounder(top14 protected)

[ChinaConor]

Maybe you are right about Atlanta. But trading underpaid players like Smith is a bad way to get under the salary cap. If I were Atlanta before I did dumped Smith, especially in a trade that only reduces salary for one season (2013-2014), is over to give away Johnson. I think Orlando might be willing to do a Johnson, Williams for Turkolou, Richardson and Davis. Orlando would take on a huge amount more salary, but become a much better team. At least their last year with Howard would be fun and exciting.

[rockets best fan]

Maybe you are right about Atlanta. But trading underpaid players like Smith is a bad way to get under the salary cap. If I were Atlanta before I did dumped Smith, especially in a trade that only reduces salary for one season (2013-2014), is over to give away Johnson. I think Orlando might be willing to do a Johnson, Williams for Turkolou, Richardson and Davis. Orlando would take on a huge amount more salary, but become a much better team. At least their last year with Howard would be fun and exciting.

you are right about one thing atlanta would love this deal but orlando won't ..............to understand what motivates a team to make a trade first you have to accept money drives the nba . the new collective bargaining agreement that the league just instituted leaves the salary cap at 58 mil this year and next year, but after that the salary cap will drop because the players accepted less BRI in the new deal this should bring the salary cap in around 53 mil a team can be over the salary cap and still not have to pay luxury tax but they can't be more that 10 mil over the cap or they pay whats called luxury tax in the old agreement a team paid 1 dollar for every dollar they were past the luxury tax so if a team was 5 dollars over the tax threshold they would have to pay 10 dollars in tax. in the new agreement after next year teams that are over the tax threshold will have to pay 3 dollars for every dollar they are over the tax threshold that means a teams like the lakers who have 87 mil in salary this year would be 24 mil over the tax threhhold and would have to pay 72 mil in tax to the league. this is why teams are almost always trying to decrease payroll. this is why the lakers gave odom away for basicly nothing it cuts 9 mil dollars off their payroll saving them 27 mil in tax they have to pay.... now these rules kick in year after next but teams are already trying to prepare there are several team who have a problem like the lakers and atlanta is one of them watch what I tell you they are going to give smith away for what seems like almost nothing that is why contracts like martins is so valuable in the league when his contract is up that money drop off payroll saving you money

[rockets best fan]

so you see teams don't make trades all the time because you want to get better, sometimes its to save money. its kinda like this: either they are competing for a championship or trying to maintain flexability so they can make other moves. that's why some of these deals sound crazy. some of these teams overpay players and then get stuck with their contracts, and will trade away other good players just to get rid of a bad contract. ...........sorry about the run on sentences in last post I just got carried away

[ChinaConor]

Rockets Best Fan:
"to understand what motivates a team to make a trade first you have to accept money drives the nba ." While this may be true in most cases, hasn't Orlando proved money isn't their primary motivation. They've taken on the contracts of Vince Carter, Gilbert Arenas and Hedo Turkolou. They signed Chris Duhon to a longterm deal and he's barely an NBA player. Just this offseason, despite the new CBA they traded Brandon Bass to acquire the more expensive (and for longer) Glen Davis and resigned Jason Richardson. Except for amnestying Gilbert Arenas, can you point to a decision that Orlando has made that hasn't been about money?

You may argue that their decisions have been foolish, but clearly their owner is willing to open up the purse strings to pursue a championship. Paying Johnson $26 million for the 2015-2016 seems like a price he'd be willing to pay for a chance to win over the next couple of seasons. Especially since if it doesn't work out over the next two seasons they'll probably be able to clean the rest of their books.

[ChinaConor]

Rockets Best Fan:
Speaking of bad contracts, would you be willing to take on Ben Gordon's contract (2 years 25.6 million) or Charlie Villanueva ( 2 years 16.6 million) (salaries from Hoopshype.com) in order to aquire their lottery pick?

[rockets best fan]

Rockets Best Fan:
Speaking of bad contracts, would you be willing to take on Ben Gordon's contract (2 years 25.6 million) or Charlie Villanueva ( 2 years 16.6 million) (salaries from Hoopshype.com) in order to aquire their lottery pick?

yes I would take one of those contracts to get their draft pick. as for orlando they are trying to win a championship, so they are going to be one of the top spending teams, but if they lose howard they are going to be stuck with a bunch of bad contracts. thats why they would want salary cap relief in any deal to move howard. its hard to start over when all your money is spent

[pharmag]

Rockets Best Fan:
"to understand what motivates a team to make a trade first you have to accept money drives the nba ." While this may be true in most cases, hasn't Orlando proved money isn't their primary motivation. They've taken on the contracts of Vince Carter, Gilbert Arenas and Hedo Turkolou. They signed Chris Duhon to a longterm deal and he's barely an NBA player. Just this offseason, despite the new CBA they traded Brandon Bass to acquire the more expensive (and for longer) Glen Davis and resigned Jason Richardson. Except for amnestying Gilbert Arenas, can you point to a decision that Orlando has made that hasn't been about money?

You may argue that their decisions have been foolish, but clearly their owner is willing to open up the purse strings to pursue a championship. Paying Johnson $26 million for the 2015-2016 seems like a price he'd be willing to pay for a chance to win over the next couple of seasons. Especially since if it doesn't work out over the next two seasons they'll probably be able to clean the rest of their books.

I would argue though that an agreement to trade Howard is an aknowledgment that they aren't going to win a championship anytime soon, at which point salary cap relief is vital. A lot of those players he took on for huge contracts were guys that were good players in their time, but had slipped. The owner was trying to put pieces around Howard to get the championship, albeit he was going about it the very wrong way.

[pharmag]

yes I would take one of those contracts to get their draft pick. as for orlando they are trying to win a championship, so they are going to be one of the top spending teams, but if they lose howard they are going to be stuck with a bunch of bad contracts. thats why they would want salary cap relief in any deal to move howard. its hard to start over when all your money is spent

I would be hesitant to do so as it will make it difficult to get Howard and even if you do, how do you retain him with that kind of contract on the books and still keep a semblance of a team.

[rockets best fan]

I would be hesitant to do so as it will make it difficult to get Howard and even if you do, how do you retain him with that kind of contract on the books and still keep a semblance of a team.

if I was going to take on that contract I would forget about howard and try to get my big man from the draft. detroit is going to have a high pick where what I feel star level talent will still be on the board.