41 replies to this topic

[rocketrick]

Was Doc's team underachieving? Based on talent level, I'd say no. With Mchale, he did underachieve based off talent level.

Same ol' bs, quite boring to me. Rivers had KG, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen while challenging for back to back titles and challenging for a place in the NBA Finals prior to that.

3 future NBA Hall of Famers.

[rocketrick]

@NorEastern
LEADER OF MEN? McHale couldn't lead a hungry man to the food bank  his leadership abilities are way way overblown. in what way has McHale shown leadership????????

The Charlie Brown comments are beyond pale (other similar posts by this "author").

Pathetic.

[thejohnnygold]

Rocketrick, I would not consider posts like yours as contributing to the conversation.  Please consider that trite, boring, and same old same old are words that more aptly describe your posts which are rude and teeter way too close to a "personal" attack.

 

Your tenure here only buys you so much leeway.  Get right, please.  Chiding others for posts you dislike without bothering to contribute to the conversation yourself doesn't work around here.

 

[thejohnnygold]

Was Doc's team underachieving? Based on talent level, I'd say no. With Mchale, he did underachieve based off talent level.

 

Talent?  TALENT???  OK.  Click this LINK.  That is Houston's roster for the 2012-13 season.  Look at those names.  Does that roster say Western Conference playoff team?  Sure, in hindsight it does.  What that roster really says is D-League with a couple of veteran journeyman.  We used 14 players with 2 years or less of experience.  Western Conference.  45-37.  Team upheaval pre-season and then mid-season.  No problem, right?

 

So, then the playoffs come around and we are facing the #1 team in the league with the #1 ranked offense and #4 ranked defense and the 2nd best player in the world.

 

We played that series without a PF and with a mid-season rookie at PG.  We lost games 2 and 3 by 3 points a piece.  That is a one possession game.  We proceeded to win the next two, before falling again.  Yes, I recall Westbrook went down and that matters.  We were still huge underdogs.  Our bench was Greg Smith, Carlos Delfino, Francisco Garcia, Terrence Jones, and Aaron Brooks.  Underachieve is so far from the right word.

 

I've gone into detail multiple times about the Portland series and why it was not a massive failure.  Was it disappointing?  Of course.  That doesn't mean that months later we, as fans, should still harbor emotion-based resentment that skews our ability to see objectively.  Portland was a very good team, that came into the series hot, got tons of good bounces, ran into an ice cold James Harden, and still needed two buzzer beaters to win the series.  Underachieve?  Whatever.  I wonder if everyone holds themselves to the same standards they apply externally....

[Cooper]

To me it was underachieving its hard to say the entire team underachieved because Dwight was great, Daniels outperformed expectations. Parsons , Asik and lin played about as good as you could expect. But Jones, bev and  Harden underachieved, cold shooting whatever you want to call it it wasn't what we normally see from him. Bev gets a pass since he wasn't fully recovered. Jones might just not be all that good so you could argue he didn't underachieve. Now what could mchale have done to change any of that? Id argue essentially nothing. Its underachieving in the sense that it was a series they would normally win but more of fluke than a coaching or organizational problem in my view.

[thejohnnygold]

To me it was underachieving its hard to say the entire team underachieved because Dwight was great, Daniels outperformed expectations. Parsons , Asik and lin played about as good as you could expect. But Jones, bev and  Harden underachieved, cold shooting whatever you want to call it it wasn't what we normally see from him. Bev gets a pass since he wasn't fully recovered. Jones might just not be all that good so you could argue he didn't underachieve. Now what could mchale have done to change any of that? Id argue essentially nothing. Its underachieving in the sense that it was a series they would normally win but more of fluke than a coaching or organizational problem in my view.

 

That's a pretty fair assessment.  Yes, Harden "underachieved".  He shot 16-54 from deep while taking roughly 2.5 more threes per game than he did in the regular season (6.6 reg season vs. 9.0 in playoffs).  Portland sealed off the paint and he did not adjust well (and yes, part of that falls on the coach) which led to him forcing more shots from deep.  Still, he is good enough to make more than 16-54 and if he had this discussion is likely very different.

 

Harden was taking more shots than usual--he took 40% of his shots from deep during the season and that number held true for the playoffs.  He averaged 17 fga/gm during the regular season and 22 fga/gm during the playoffs.  That's not a bad thing given he is an elite scorer.  Part of it was Portland defending well and part of it was him not knocking down shots he normally makes.  

 

I dislike bringing up referees as an excuse, but to me it was a bit much.  I know the game changes--and Harden needs to learn that--but it wasn't just Harden--there were bone-headed calls throughout the series and I feel the scales were not balanced.  Harden, during the season, attempted .552 ft's per fg attempt (according to basketball reference) and that number plummeted to .376.  That is substantial.

 

I think Harden will grow and learn from the experience so I am not concerned about any long term issues with him.  I would say that McHale has probably spent time going over game film with him and imparting some wisdom, experience, and guidance, but it would not matter in the eyes of those who see him as they do. 

[Mario Peña]

Besides all the good points about talent on the rosters I would add that the East was relatively weak in Docs' early days whereas McHale is going up against an era of one of the strongest conferences in NBA history. There is a big picture so try to see all of it.

For years they were calling for Rivers to resign in Boston but Ainge built a big three and brought in a defensive coach and we all know the rest. Good for Celtic fans that Ainge stood by Doc.

[rockets best fan]

Cooper/JG/FSS

PORTLAND SERIES WAS A MASSIVE FAILURE. we can debate the finer points of bounces of the ball, Ref calls, Harden's slump or any number of other EXCUSES. however in my mind it boils down to one factor.............Stotts flat outcoached McHale. his team was always one step ahead of our next adjustment. we have superior talent to Portland. we should have kicked their butts like we did  during the season. I don't believe in sugar coating failure. we had a massive upgrade in talent and was facing a lower playoffs seed than us with home court advantage with a coach who is almost as dumb as McHale. what else can we ask for? yet we still ended up with the short end of the stick. that's not just disappointment, but failure in my book.

[Steven]

Besides Harden and Howard, no one else on last years team would have played massive minutes on the Trailblazers. Parsons would have been a backup to Batum and might have got 20 minutes a night, and Asik would have been the backup C. That's it. The Blazers had three PGs I would take over any the Rockets had.

[rockets best fan]

@Steven

I promise you if Portland had Asik he wouldn't have been on the bench. he is an upgrade to Lopez. Parsons and Batum played to a standoff. you can argue which is better, but they are close enough to be a wash. D-12 superior to Lopez. Harden superior to Mathews. we got killed from two positions.........PF and PG. if Bev is healthy PG would have been a better matchup. PF..............we got killed here for a few different reasons. LMA is a star, but the disparity should not have been as great as it was. first off we didn't make LMA have to play both ends of the floor by using T-Jones strengths scoring. second we didn't get physical with LMA until the 3rd game which by then we were already behind the eight ball. third we didn't take some of the juice out of LMA jump shot by setting screens with his man. basically we were to slow adjusting to Stott adjustments

[rocketrick]

Rocketrick, I would not consider posts like yours as contributing to the conversation.  Please consider that trite, boring, and same old same old are words that more aptly describe your posts which are rude and teeter way too close to a "personal" attack.
 
Your tenure here only buys you so much leeway.  Get right, please.  Chiding others for posts you dislike without bothering to contribute to the conversation yourself doesn't work around here.
 

Oh geez,

I was only trying to point out that the Charlie Brown comparison is ill-suited since Charlie only played Football, not Basketball.

OK, Go Texans, Could Seriously be 2-0 after today!!!!

Edited by rocketrick, 14 September 2014 - 12:45 PM.

[rocketrick]

Rocketrick, I would not consider posts like yours as contributing to the conversation.  Please consider that trite, boring, and same old same old are words that more aptly describe your posts which are rude and teeter way too close to a "personal" attack.
 
Your tenure here only buys you so much leeway.  Get right, please.  Chiding others for posts you dislike without bothering to contribute to the conversation yourself doesn't work around here.
 

And you are completely correct,

I never contribute on this board, just exactly like James Harden never contributes to the USA team in FIBA.

Oh well, it is just what is is...........the truth hurts and nobody else on this board is willing to go there.

Fine, I will be the bast**d and whatever here to try and say what needs to be said.

[thejohnnygold]

And you are completely correct,

I never contribute on this board, just exactly like James Harden never contributes to the USA team in FIBA.

Oh well, it is just what is is...........the truth hurts and nobody else on this board is willing to go there.

Fine, I will be the bast**d and whatever here to try and say what needs to be said.

 

Yeah, if you could stop calling people and their posts "pathetic" that would be a good start.  We don't need, nor do we want, you to martyr yourself.  Try being the smart, nice guy who makes interesting and informative posts rather than the surly curmudgeon who tells everyone else how terrible they are.  Be the change you wish to see in the world....

 

[rocketrick]

Perhaps there should be a dictionary of "forbidden" words on this site. Just one step away from Fahrenheit 451.

Just saying.

So when I use one of those "forbidden" words, it seems to automatically also be an attack on someone else? OK.

[rocketrick]

Besides, Charlie Brown never once played basketball that I recall. He was pathetic at football and baseball.

Ooops, I used that word pathetic yet again............

[thejohnnygold]

Unlike your dystopian view of this situation, I think it could all be rectified by simply banning one word: rocketrick.

 

You are subject to the same standards as everyone else.  There is no conspiracy here.  There are no "Firemen" destroying the world's knowledge.  There is no Big Brother trying to keep people away from the truth.  There is just you, attacking people because you don't like their opinions.  Disagreeing has never been a problem here.  Not abiding by forum standards has.

 

Please stop spamming the boards with your contrived crusade against the invisible threat to your freedom of speech.  Please, if you disagree with a person use reason and logic to respond.  It's not about opinions--it's about tact and decorum.

 

This forum would benefit more from you using your vast knowledge and history with the team to share stories, experiences, and perspectives in a positive manner that many of the younger fans do not possess.  Instead, there seems to be a disconnect and there is no respect for those who "don't get it" which leads to the dismissive attitude.  It's a shame, really.

 

One last thing--returning to your Farenheit 451 reference.  If what you believe is true then would it not behoove you to become a "book" yourself?  Much like the hobos who lived outside the city were each a book unto themselves, you could become the History of the Rockets and, instead of hoarding that knowledge, share it with us....pleasantly.  Just a thought...

[clydesmoustache]

Hey guys does anyone know much about T.R. Dunn? It appears he is no Lionel Hollins. I am a bit worried that he worked for Adeleman. Doesn't sound like a defensive coordinator. Though according to Wikipedia he is a 3x defensive second team as a player

[thejohnnygold]

Hey guys does anyone know much about T.R. Dunn? It appears he is no Lionel Hollins. I am a bit worried that he worked for Adeleman. Doesn't sound like a defensive coordinator. Though according to Wikipedia he is a 3x defensive second team as a player

 

This is from Zach Lowe's article about the Rockets

 

 

 

Houston is taking steps. J.B. Bickerstaff, the current defensive coordinator, is a rising star assistant coach. Houston today will announce the hiring of assistant coach T.R. Dunn, a longtime Rick Adelman assistant who was in Houston during the Yao Ming years — when the Rockets had perhaps the league’s best defense over a three-year span.

[clydesmoustache]

League best defense over a three year span? I stand corrected!

[Losthief]

yeah i mean the guy made the yao/mutumbo combo a good anchor on defense, and even if howard declines significantly at some point in the future I still think he's always going to be more mobile than than yao and (at that point in his career) mutumbo. Just imagine what he can do....and I think a acceptable ceiling for d for tjones is what scola was giving us then.

Edited by Losthief, 30 September 2014 - 08:37 PM.