11 replies to this topic

[majik19]

Did anyone see this proposed trade, courtesy of John Carroll, ESPN Insider:

Paul Pierce to the Houston Rockets for Kevin Martin and Patrick Patterson OR Jordan Hill

Obviously there is a big difference between including Patterson or including Hill. Honestly, I think it is a no-brainer if you include Hill and not Patterson. Pierce would give us a superstar (albeit our window would be two years.) He may be able to draw other players to want to play in Houston. He can score in the clutch, he can shoot well, and he plays decent defense. He's much more high-volume than Martin, but I believe he would be a great fit, once he's healthy. Their PERs are close this year, but both have been down (Pierce because of injury, Martin because of rule change?)

What do yall think?

[Rahat Huq]

I wouldn't do it if were Patterson. But I'd do it for Hill, just because of name-brand. The team's win-loss with Lee in the lineup instead of Martin isn't any different. You could move Chandler to the bench, plug Lee in at sg, Pierce at the '3', and try to lure Dwight.

[majik19]

I wouldn't do it if were Patterson. But I'd do it for Hill, just because of name-brand. The team's win-loss with Lee in the lineup instead of Martin isn't any different. You could move Chandler to the bench, plug Lee in at sg, Pierce at the '3', and try to lure Dwight.

I think putting Lee in the starting lineup would kill our bench - at least offensively. I don't know if Bud and Parsons can play on the floor together well.
And even Patterson leaves it at intriguing, at the very least. Maybe we would need a lottery protected 1st rounder back in that case (which they would likely not want to trade.)

[Rahat Huq]

I think putting Lee in the starting lineup would kill our bench - at least offensively. I don't know if Bud and Parsons can play on the floor together well.
And even Patterson leaves it at intriguing, at the very least. Maybe we would need a lottery protected 1st rounder back in that case (which they would likely not want to trade.)

Actually, I take this back. I wouldn't do it. I don't think PP convinces DH12 to come here. And getting Pierce just for Pierce isn't worth it - I'd rather have Martin.

[TwistedNematic]

Sup guys, finally registered.

This trade sounds awful, Pierce is old (not Kevin Martin old but 34 and on the decline). One version of the trade would put a halt to the outstanding development we've seen from two great young guys; pp and cp25.

This is going all in for the next two years after literally grinding for the past four. (game 6 of the lakers series was the last high point)

Trades that don't involve superstars just don't seem worth it. If this trade went through, this season will probably be a lost cause so that we can rework chemistry and we'd still be a trade away from a true contender.

[Rahat Huq]

Sup guys, finally registered.

This trade sounds awful, Pierce is old (not Kevin Martin old but 34 and on the decline). One version of the trade would put a halt to the outstanding development we've seen from two great young guys; pp and cp25.

This is going all in for the next two years after literally grinding for the past four. (game 6 of the lakers series was the last high point)

Trades that don't involve superstars just don't seem worth it. If this trade went through, this season will probably be a lost cause so that we can rework chemistry and we'd still be a trade away from a true contender.

Have to agree here with pretty much everything you said.

[FelixPR]

Pass. You trade for Pierce when you need that extra nudge to reach the top. This team is not even close to that. As much negatives Martin has, I rather have him right now than Pierce who is 34 years old. I know Pierce brings an extra value with his name (not much though) but his age plus his contract outweighs the positives. If this Rockets team were in a better place (ala the time we got Artest) then it would make more sense for us.

[TwistedNematic]

Pass. You trade for Pierce when you need that extra nudge to reach the top. This team is not even close to that. As much negatives Martin has, I rather have him right now than Pierce who is 34 years old. I know Pierce brings an extra value with his name (not much though) but his age plus his contract outweighs the positives. If this Rockets team were in a better place (ala the time we got Artest) then it would make more sense for us.

Care to elaborate on the negatives? He's improved his defense and is currently shaking off the shortened season rust. HIs decision making is unorthodox (fast break 3s, trying to draw fouls when the defender is trying his hardest not to foul..) but the fact that he still shows signs of success in a season where the NBA is trying to abolish his style of play is pretty amazing. He's a cheaper and more efficient shooting guard version of melo.

I won't lie though, part of it is me just being a homer. But honestly, name 3 shooting guards who are younger AND better? The 2 spot is like wine, it gets better with age. (see kobe, ray allen, dwade, jason terry, billups, manu, joe johnson, etc..)

[FelixPR]

Care to elaborate on the negatives? He's improved his defense and is currently shaking off the shortened season rust. HIs decision making is unorthodox (fast break 3s, trying to draw fouls when the defender is trying his hardest not to foul..) but the fact that he still shows signs of success in a season where the NBA is trying to abolish his style of play is pretty amazing. He's a cheaper and more efficient shooting guard version of melo.

I won't lie though, part of it is me just being a homer. But honestly, name 3 shooting guards who are younger AND better? The 2 spot is like wine, it gets better with age. (see kobe, ray allen, dwade, jason terry, billups, manu, joe johnson, etc..)

Defense is improved but nobody is going to confuse Kevin Martin with a two way player. He also has a specific way to get points which involves actively seeking calls on drives. Plus, if Kevin is not someone who can consistently do anything else aside from scoring (defense, rebounds, assists). He has his moments in a rare game or two but the averages show that his job is to score and that is it (which is perfectly fine).

I have nothing against Martin. Maybe I worded my prior sentence wrong. I was trying to put a realistic approach on that Martin is flawed like many players but I rather have him and what he brings to table than Pierce who is older and may not be able to consistently do what is needed to justify the price tag.

One way of looking at it is, would someone rather have Martin's consistent all offense approach or take the gamble with Pierce who is a two way player but is much older, more expensive and on the same boat if not more likely to be injured. My money is on Martin.

[bloodiemario]

I would not give up Pat for Paul Pierce. Shoot, I wouldn't give up either of those guys for Pierce. Yes, he has a ring, can score, and is a superstar. We don't want to turn into the Boston Celtics. Young talent. Deron Williams, Dwight Howard, players like that. We have a good supporting cast all around, just need that one superstar to put them around. Paule Pierce is not him.

[Rahat Huq]

In fairness though, I think the motivation there would be just as a bait to land a superstar. The problem is, he's not nearly enough of a bait for anyone to come at his age.

But on personal merit alone, I wouldn't even trade Chandler Parsons straight up for Pierce.

[Favian Pua]

This trade is a definite pass. Not biting the bait on this. It sounds alluring because Pierce has the "superstar" tag, thus exaggerating his credentials. The problem is that we are trapped in the illusion of perception: we choose to view Pierce as who he was. We recall what he brings to the table back in 2002 when he virtually dragged the Celtics to the Eastern Conference Finals by himself. The truth (no pun intended) is that today, Pierce is no longer the game-changing 2008 Finals MVP he once was anymore. A Martin for Pierce deal already is a downgrade on Houston's part, what more if you throw in Patterson or Hill into the mix.

I know what you're thinking. Pierce, to a certain extent, had some pull tagging Garnett and Allen along for the ride. That's not how it will play out with regard to Howard, whether it happens this midseason or in the summer. We're talking about superstars joining forces and are in it to win it for the long haul, not just a two-year crash and burn experiment. Howard would not sever ties and leave for a shaky core that has no long-term blueprint.