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Is Thad Young really an upgrade?


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#1 Red94

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    Posted 08 December 2013 - 05:02 PM

    New post: Is Thad Young really an upgrade?
    By: rahat huq

    Marc Stein's latest is that the notion of Philadelphia as a viable destination for Omer Asik has been making the rounds.  Stein reports that this, in part, is due to the fact that Philadelphia could send back Thad Young to the Rockets.  Stein also adds that there is an increasing belief that the Rockets intend to deal Asik to the Eastern Conference leading me to intensify my own belief that the Rockets probably will end up holding onto Asik.

    First, while Young at this stage certainly is an upgrade over sophomore forward Terrence Jones, I'm not sure he's enough of an upgrade to warrant trading the team's best remaining trade chip (and probably the best asset it will have to improve the team during the duration of the Dwight Howard-James Harden era.)  Adding Young to this lineup likely adds a win or two, but it also stunts and depreciates the value of Jones, nullifying any positive benefits gained if viewing this thing from the long-term.  Young also doesn't strike me as the type of asset that other teams would find enticing as part of a larger, later deal.

    Jones has slipped of late from his torrid start, even being benched to start the second half against Phoenix.  But his emergence has removed desperation from the Asik equation.  Point being, if Chandler Parsons and Jeremy Lin are healthy, I'm not sure it makes sense to just trade Asik just to trade Asik.  (Lo and behold, Parsons' return to the lineup the other night correlated with a rebound-game from Jones.)  At this point, I still think your best bet is some sort of complicated three-way deal that brings back a lottery pick for Asik.  A much grander deal involving Lin as well could improve the team, but that would seem even more unlikely just because that sort of thing rarely happens.  (Think 'Mel0, Bosh.)

    If Asik is dealt, I think it's for a lottery pick or in a blockbuster with Lin.  My money right now is on the team just holding onto him outright.  At this point in time, I don't see them dealing him for the likes of a Thad Young type.


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    #2 2016Champions

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    Posted 08 December 2013 - 05:14 PM

    New post: Is Thad Young really an upgrade?
    By: rahat huq
     

    Marc Stein's latest is that the notion of Philadelphia as a viable destination for Omer Asik has been making the rounds.  Stein reports that this, in part, is due to the fact that Philadelphia could send back Thad Young to the Rockets.  Stein also adds that there is an increasing belief that the Rockets intend to deal Asik to the Eastern Conference leading me to intensify my own belief that the Rockets probably will end up holding onto Asik.

    First, while Young at this stage certainly is an upgrade over sophomore forward Terrence Jones, I'm not sure he's enough of an upgrade to warrant trading the team's best remaining trade chip (and probably the best asset it will have to improve the team during the duration of the Dwight Howard-James Harden era.)  Adding Young to this lineup likely adds a win or two, but it also stunts and depreciates the value of Jones, nullifying any positive benefits gained if viewing this thing from the long-term.  Young also doesn't strike me as the type of asset that other teams would find enticing as part of a larger, later deal.

    Jones has slipped of late from his torrid start, even being benched to start the second half against Phoenix.  But his emergence has removed desperation from the Asik equation.  Point being, if Chandler Parsons and Jeremy Lin are healthy, I'm not sure it makes sense to just trade Asik just to trade Asik.  (Lo and behold, Parsons' return to the lineup the other night correlated with a rebound-game from Jones.)  At this point, I still think your best bet is some sort of complicated three-way deal that brings back a lottery pick for Asik.  A much grander deal involving Lin as well could improve the team, but that would seem even more unlikely just because that sort of thing rarely happens.  (Think 'Mel0, Bosh.)

    If Asik is dealt, I think it's for a lottery pick or in a blockbuster with Lin.  My money right now is on the team just holding onto him outright.  At this point in time, I don't see them dealing him for the likes of a Thad Young type.

     

    Took the words right out my mouth, I honestly agree with every word here. Months ago I wouldn't have agreed because it didn't hit me how much Asik helps us, and I had my doubts about Jones, but the picture is a lot clearer now. I do really like Thad as a player but Jones just seems like such a perfect fit.


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    "We're not satisfied with where we're at, but we're optimistic on where things will go from here" - Daryl Morey


    #3 2016Champions

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    Posted 08 December 2013 - 05:17 PM

    I want to add for everyone's knowledge that we can take back 150% of Asik's contact in a trade, which is around $12.5 million.


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    "We're not satisfied with where we're at, but we're optimistic on where things will go from here" - Daryl Morey


    #4 glucagon

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      Posted 08 December 2013 - 06:57 PM

      I disagree, I think Young is a much better fit than Asik. I don't know if acquiring him is any knock on Jones though. I see Young coming in as a forward that can run with the second unit, that can offer more size, energy, and defense than say Casspi does. I don't think you can alter a starting lineup that is posting astronomic +/- like the jones parsons howard front court is. But Asik seems to increasingly show how poorly he fits with the composition of this roster. His inability to catch passes in traffic, finish consistently at the rim, run the floor with an iota of body control is becoming incredibly frustrating. He offers elite rim protection and excellent individual defense, yes. But are we sure we get that from him all season if he doesn't get moved? I don't think so...and I'm not sure Morey does either. I think they talked with Omer and convinced him that to trade him he needs to appear to play nice. He's playing to get moved. He wants those starter minutes, and he deserves them. I'd be thrilled to get either Milsapp or Young in exchange for him.
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      #5 rockets best fan

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      Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:07 PM

      NO.......Thad Young is NOT enough of an upgrade to warrant letting Asik go. while he isat this point a slightly better overall player than jones, he is much closer to his ceiling than T-Jones at a much more expensive price tag. I see Morey much more interested in the N.O. first round pick that Philly owns if they are talking to Philly. maybe something like a Hawes + N.O. first rounder for Asik + D-Mo. I think Morey is after K-Love and he is trying to build assets for that purpose


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      you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


      #6 Buckko

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        Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:18 PM

        Why would we get another PF and deplete our C position?
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        #7 Cooper

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          Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:31 PM

          If we send him to Philly I'd want hawes and turner.
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          #8 pharmag

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            Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:59 PM

            Trying to be as unbiased and balanced as possible.  I made a similar suggestion a few weeks ago and am playing off the fact that the Cavs want to move waiters and supposedly like Turner so that being said.  How about http://espn.go.com/n...tradeId=krs28q5 plus Memphis first round pick from Cleveland?

             

                                 Rockets                           Cavs                               76ers

            PG                Bev/Lin                       Irving/Jack                      MKW/Wroten

            SG          Harden/Garcia             Karasev/Miles                  Waiters/Anderson  

            SF         Parsons/Cassipi               Turner/Clark              Thompson/McGee

            PF            Jones/DMo            Thompson/Bennett                Young/Allen

            C           Howard/Varejo              Bynum/Hawes                     Asik/Orton

             

            Rockets get back-up center + top 5 protected lottery guaranteed pick.

            76ers get a defensive anchor, a young shooting guard and a SF (to make money work)

            Cavs get Turner and Hawes to replace Varejo while maintaining cap flexibility for upcoming offseason.


            Edited by pharmag, 08 December 2013 - 10:08 PM.

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            #9 thenit

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              Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:02 PM

              It's a decent trade but no team would give up a top 5 lottery pick for Asik
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              #10 pharmag

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                Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:08 PM

                It's a decent trade but no team would give up a top 5 lottery pick for Asik

                My bad...mis typed that.  Fixed it now.


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                #11 2016Champions

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                Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:45 PM

                An upgrade I would welcome is Eric Bledsoe. I think people forget that he is going to be a free agent, and with out Asik we will have enough for a max contact.


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                "We're not satisfied with where we're at, but we're optimistic on where things will go from here" - Daryl Morey


                #12 timetodienow1234567

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                Posted 08 December 2013 - 11:15 PM

                An upgrade I would welcome is Eric Bledsoe. I think people forget that he is going to be a free agent, and with out Asik we will have enough for a max contact.

                 

                Apart from him tearing his ACL and the Rockets being the only team willing to sign him to a 4 year max deal, there's NO way Bledseo becomes a Rocket.

                 

                That has as much chance happening as us getting Durant or Davis.


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                Why so Serious? :D


                #13 Drew in Abilene

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                Posted 08 December 2013 - 11:17 PM

                Trying to be as unbiased and balanced as possible.  I made a similar suggestion a few weeks ago and am playing off the fact that the Cavs want to move waiters and supposedly like Turner so that being said.  How about http://espn.go.com/n...tradeId=krs28q5 plus Memphis first round pick from Cleveland?

                 

                                     Rockets                           Cavs                               76ers

                PG                Bev/Lin                       Irving/Jack                      MKW/Wroten

                SG          Harden/Garcia             Karasev/Miles                  Waiters/Anderson  

                SF         Parsons/Cassipi               Turner/Clark              Thompson/McGee

                PF            Jones/DMo            Thompson/Bennett                Young/Allen

                C           Howard/Varejo              Bynum/Hawes                     Asik/Orton

                 

                Rockets get back-up center + top 5 protected lottery guaranteed pick.

                76ers get a defensive anchor, a young shooting guard and a SF (to make money work)

                Cavs get Turner and Hawes to replace Varejo while maintaining cap flexibility for upcoming offseason.

                I really like Varejao as a player, though his history of injuries is disconcerting. That pick might be worthwhile, especially considering Morey's track record in finding quality players in the draft. Most proposed Asik trades strike me as either severely over-rating Asik's trade value or severely undervaluing him. This one seems closer to a happy middle ground. I still don't know if I'd pull the trigger on it, but it's intriguing. 

                 

                Back to the original post, I think a trade for Thad Young might fall into the same category as a feasible trade that isn't too outlandish. With that said, I'm still questioning whether Morey wants to trade for a piece to add to this core to make a championship run, or if this trade is for an asset to be shipped off for a final piece.

                 

                All of that is on top of my belief that Asik will have way more value to the Rockets during the playoffs, when teams will try to get Howard in foul trouble early, especially if there's no capable backup available. I wouldn't put it past Morey to ride out this year with Asik to try to pry open the championship window a year early with two of the best interior defenders.


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                #14 NorEastern

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                  Posted 08 December 2013 - 11:55 PM



                  I personally cannot think of a realistic trade for Asik that would bring equal value back to the Rockets. However, if Asik is dealt D-Mo will not be going anywhere. There is no better backup to Howard right now. I could possibly see Asik being traded at the deadline for picks, but only if Morey is comfortable with D-Mo as a backup, which may be doubtful. NBA teams are just not desperate enough right now to offer fair value. With Asik the Rockets could be fighting for a chip. Without?


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                  #15 Cooper

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                    Posted 09 December 2013 - 12:23 AM

                    Pretty sure Bledsoe would be restricted.
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                    #16 HazeWinkle

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                      Posted 09 December 2013 - 01:22 AM

                      i would take thad young and spencer hawes for asik and a future 1st rounder or D-mo


                      Edited by HazeWinkle, 09 December 2013 - 01:23 AM.

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                      #17 Buckko

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                        Posted 09 December 2013 - 04:26 AM

                        Now that would be a bad trade, young is just another PF to sit on our bench and we would not be able to resign hawes while demo is under contract for a few more years and improving. However why does Greg Smith get no love.
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                        #18 Rahat Huq

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                          Posted 09 December 2013 - 04:31 AM

                          Do any of you think Evan Turner would be possible?  I'd be all over that.  


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                          #19 Buckko

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                            Posted 09 December 2013 - 05:07 AM

                            Do any of you think Evan Turner would be possible?  I'd be all over that.  

                            I don't know how he would get minutes or touches in our system. We have our rotation pretty set and he plays the same position as harden. Not to mention would we have the space to resign him.


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                            #20 rockets best fan

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                            Posted 09 December 2013 - 07:44 AM

                            Do any of you think Evan Turner would be possible?  I'd be all over that.  

                            I like Turner..........I really do, but I think his numbers are inflated because he is a decent player on a bad team. besides I don't think he would be happy with a reserve role......hence we would have the same problem with him as Asik......he wants to start. I really don't see Turner coming here in trade. he doesn't help fill enough of the holes left by an Asik trade.


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                            you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)





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