77 replies to this topic

[miketheodio]

Can you name any teams who have had as much turnover and roster changes that are also playoff teams?

i buy this argument for last year. not so much this year.

[rockets best fan]

i buy this argument for last year. not so much this year.

I would agree with that. the team is still making last years mistakes. turnovers, bad shots, no defense, no discipline. those are all areas the coach should be affecting. if McHale isn't able to change this he should be fired. coaches can and do make a difference. I'm giving McHale this year to figure this out, but if we have not improved in these areas by the end of the season he should be fired. I have never liked him as a coach, but hoped he could find his way..........I am no longer as optimistic as I once was that he will figure it out

[thejohnnygold]

Firstly, I'm not saying McHale is perfect--not by any means.  I'm not saying I agree with all of the decisions--or apparent decisions since none of us know for sure.  My disagreement stems from the casual way some posters (not all) immediately glum onto every loss and use it to prop up their dislike of McHale.  I make counter points not so much because I believe he is innocent of wrong-doing; rather, I make counterpoints because I don't think the criticisms he is getting are validly supported.

 

I honestly think he is the kind of guy who would throw his kid in the lake to teach him to swim.  I think that is what's going on a lot.  He is content to watch them drown until they learn--the benefit outweighs the cost.  This may appear as if he has no clue, but I really doubt that is the case.  What is more likely is that he has forgotten more about basketball than any of us will ever know and he understands that if they cannot walk by themselves then how will they ever run?

 

Phil Jackson was well known for letting his players work out their own problems--for better or worse.  Now, with 10 rings he gets a free pass, but is it so different from McHale's approach?  Of course it is going to be ugly.

 

The reason the patterns are emerging the way they are is because other teams understand how to close out a quarter, a half, and a game.  There is room to give that little extra energy burst because you know you are going to get a quick rest soon.  Those teams aren't running fancy plays to score.  They're not making sneaky substitutions and creating mismatches.  They know what they are doing better than we do.  I have no doubt the coaches have spoken to them about it, but until they can put it into action they are just words and their meaning is abstract, not concrete.

 

I am perfectly fine with criticisms of McHale, but more often than not what I am really seeing is people projecting their own thoughts onto him and that's not very fair.  Oh, is it really McHale's fault Lin posted an 0-fer night against Dallas?  Oh, the pick n roll looks muddled...must be McHale's fault.  Come on, guys, I know you didn't ALL grow up in the everyone-gets-a-trophy era.  Sometimes it is your fault because sometimes you suck--that's the way it goes in sports.  It is also possible to simply get out-played.  Anyone who watches tennis will remember the Roddick-Federer Wimbledon match from a couple years ago.  Roddick played out of his mind--it was nothing short of amazing.  He lost.  Life isn't fair.

 

I'm not certain why we aren't running the pick n roll more.  It's not like we aren't aware of the effectiveness.  If we are going to blame anyone it has to be Morey and Dwight.  Morey wanted Dwight and Dwight made it clear he does not like the pick n roll.  Sorry, but it looks like that is the price of having Mr. Howard man the paint.  We are still #1 in the league in ppg.  Our efficiency is down, but that has as much to do with our 3 pt. shooters going ice cold as anything else. (Did you guys know Miami is shooting 3's at a 46% clip as a team?  I'm not even mad...That's amazing!)  Our free throw rate isn't helping either at .702 (4th worst in the league).

 

Coaching can't fix those things very much.  I've seen most of our 3 pt. shots--they are open shots.  What I see is that we are doing well while playing poorly in four key areas--3's, ft's, to's, and defense (only Philly gives up more ppg than us).  Our point differential is +3.8 (similar to last year).  Minnesota is +8.1 right now and Miami, Indiana, and San Antonio are all pushing +10.  We are 7th overall in that category, but there is clearly a chasm between us and the top.  My feeling is that once we get the threes and defense under control (free throws are out with Dwight on board) that number should climb into that upper stratosphere.

 

In short, I think our strategy is fine for now.  Like others, I believe the Rockets are still hammering out a lot of the details.  I think criticisms of McHale need to be more concrete--most of them use hindsight and presumption to support the notion that he is bad.  What else could have happened?  Why would it have been better?  Why are we so sure the blame is all his?  Coaches can't catch a break--when the team loses it's all their fault.  When the team wins it's because of the players.

[timetodienow1234567]

I think Mchale isn't that great of a coach, but he does get flak for some things that aren't his fault, but he gets a pass for some things that are his fault from some as well.

[Mario Peña]

Dang johnnygold, you should be writing. Well I guess you are here on the forums lucky for us.

[thejohnnygold]

Thanks, FSS.  I do enjoy writing, but once it becomes a job that changes--such is my life.  That adage about "do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life..." just doesn't apply to me...or I'm just doing it wrong .

 

TTDN, I am genuinely curious--what sort of things are you seeing in Mchale?  What is his fault and what is he taking undue blame for?  I do think he could improve in certain areas--I just don't think he is why we are losing more than we would like.

[rockets best fan]

Thanks, FSS.  I do enjoy writing, but once it becomes a job that changes--such is my life.  That adage about "do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life..." just doesn't apply to me...or I'm just doing it wrong .

 

TTDN, I am genuinely curious--what sort of things are you seeing in Mchale?  What is his fault and what is he taking undue blame for?  I do think he could improve in certain areas--I just don't think he is why we are losing more than we would like.

JG I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one because I believe McHale is failing in his job to get this team performing to it's capabilities. McHale has 2 of the best centers in the game right now and still has a poorly performing defensive team. some teams play better defense than us and don't even have a center on par with ours. per your example look at Dallas.......should they be a better defensive team than us? NO, but their coach is one of the best coaches in the league. he has a team with far less talent than ours playing superior to ours. COACHES DO EFFECT HOW A TEAM PLAYS. some say McHale is a great motivator........well the team didn't look to motivated in the fourth quarter in Dallas. while I'm not ready to fire McHale it doesn't mean I think he is doing a good job. I'm hoping he can figure it out, however each year McHale is here I see the same problems from teams coached by him. turnovers, lack of execution is crunch moments, bad defense are all things his teams consistently suffer from. how does the old saying go............if everywhere you go you have the same problems then the problem isn't the new places the problem is you. I believe this applies to McHale. I respect your opinion......I just don't agree. other than the playoff series last year I can't think of one moment that this thought popped into my head.........McHale is having a positive effect on the team. I don't want to get into the history on McHale because the result is ugly, so just focusing on his time here.........in the last two years McHale coached teams have closed out the seasons just trying to tread water. the first year they crashed and burned, last year luckily they had enough of a cushion to survive but dropped from what should have been a 6th seed all the way to an 8th seed while playing teams we should have easily beaten. see the problem is no matter who the players are the same problems keep happening because the coach is the same. he is still trying to enact the same flawed system. that's not jumping to conclusions, that's making a determination based on a track record. you may believe a coach has little to no effect on how a team performs, but I just don't agree with that line of thought

Edited by rockets best fan, 23 November 2013 - 07:13 PM.

[Mason Khamvilay]

Yeah if JG put more effort into making actual articles he could do really well. I have ADD so I have trouble reading long winding posts unless they're structured a certain way, for example I love Zach Lowe but Bill Simmons puts me to sleep sometimes.  

[thejohnnygold]

Those are good points RBF.  I do think coaches affect the team.  Right now, I think McHale is letting them "sink or swim".

 

While I do think it is necessary to have the ability to run high quality plays out of timeouts (which McHale has showed us very little of) I also believe that the coach can't call a timeout every single possession at the end of each quarter.  The guys on the court have to be able to execute on both sides of the ball if they want to be true contenders.  I am all for letting them figure this out on their own with guidance from the coaches during film sessions after the games.  I think long term this will make us better.  I fully admit that I have no idea if this is what is actually happening--it is just my opinion.

 

Once they lose enough I think the players will want to commit to doing whatever it takes to win--right now I don't think they know what that is.  I will direct your attention to 2016's tag line above.  That quote from Morey sums up how I feel as well.

[TeamBall]

Is there really a big debate about:

1) Poor rotation tiring out our first unit?

2) Improvement needed for in-game strategy adjustments?

3) Stronger coaching for our young star players on ill advised plays (probably related to (1)?

 

Sure, one might argue other teams do that too. So what?

Since we are ROX fans, naturally we want to see our team improvement in these areas.

 

On the positive side, Dwight is becoming a beast and our zipping passes (in the first 3 quarters) were very impressive.

If we can do the same crisp passing tonight, we should beat Adelman's gang.

[rockets best fan]

Those are good points RBF.  I do think coaches affect the team.  Right now, I think McHale is letting them "sink or swim".

 

While I do think it is necessary to have the ability to run high quality plays out of timeouts (which McHale has showed us very little of) I also believe that the coach can't call a timeout every single possession at the end of each quarter.  The guys on the court have to be able to execute on both sides of the ball if they want to be true contenders.  I am all for letting them figure this out on their own with guidance from the coaches during film sessions after the games.  I think long term this will make us better.  I fully admit that I have no idea if this is what is actually happening--it is just my opinion.

 

Once they lose enough I think the players will want to commit to doing whatever it takes to win--right now I don't think they know what that is.  I will direct your attention to 2016's tag line above.  That quote from Morey sums up how I feel as well.

this is my problem with the " sink or swim" outlook...............suppose they drown? are you willing to allow them to drown? not everyone can learn from the sink or swim method. some have to be helped along until they figure out the strokes. to me that's the coaches job............to help them figure out the strokes. McHale is no Phil Jackson.............not even close. McHale talks a good game, but his track record say he doesn't know what he is doing. he may have a crap load of basketball knowledge, but having that knowledge and being able to teach it to others is two different things altogether. a lot of knowledgeable people can't teach that knowledge to others in a way they can relate to it. that's rather common, but coaching takes so much more than just knowledge of the game. besides based on his lack of being a good X's and O's man I'm not sure he has all that much basketball knowledge. seems to me if you been watching people draw up plays for 30 years you ought to have a very good X's and O's presentation. fact is you can not holdup one team that McHale has coached and say that team exceeded their expectations. NONE.  is that all on coaching........probably not, but coaching had a hand in each teams downfall.

[thenit]

Those are good points RBF.  I do think coaches affect the team.  Right now, I think McHale is letting them "sink or swim".
 
While I do think it is necessary to have the ability to run high quality plays out of timeouts (which McHale has showed us very little of) I also believe that the coach can't call a timeout every single possession at the end of each quarter.  The guys on the court have to be able to execute on both sides of the ball if they want to be true contenders.  I am all for letting them figure this out on their own with guidance from the coaches during film sessions after the games.  I think long term this will make us better.  I fully admit that I have no idea if this is what is actually happening--it is just my opinion.
 
Once they lose enough I think the players will want to commit to doing whatever it takes to win--right now I don't think they know what that is.  I will direct your attention to 2016's tag line above.  That quote from Morey sums up how I feel as well.

If he is letting the players learn by sink or swim shouldn't some players get more leeway to prepare for the playoffs even when they are struggling?

[thejohnnygold]

RBF, it takes time.  Also, you know as well as I do that we have been over this McHale thing before and he most definitely has done some good things in Minnesota--you refuse to acknowledge it, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

He took over for Flip Saunders in Minny when they were 25-26.  They promptly reeled off a 19-12 record the rest of the way and beat quality teams in doing it.  Apparently this does not count.  You can see the splits fairly easily HERE (post all-star break pretty much covers it)

 

He also took a Houston squad led by Lowry (who one could argue had quit on the team by season's end), Dragic, Parsons, and Kevin Martin (who one could argue had quit on the team after losing Adelman) and led them to a winning record in the Western Conference.  Apparently this does not count.

 

The fact of the matter is McHale has a winning record in 3 out of 4 seasons so far and this one should make it 4 out of 5.  His only losing campaign came after they traded Garnett and gutted the team in Minny.

 

Yeah, it can be pointed out that he had a late season collapse last year, but that is a somewhat skewed way of looking at it.  We lost 4 out of 9 games in the month of April--3 of which were to playoff teams (Denver, Memphis, and LAL (in OT)...we all remember the Phoenix game ).  The fact of the matter is we finished the season 16-11 (post all star break) after starting 29-26.  Our defense had improved and our scoring margin was up from +2.8 to +4.8.

 

The Rockets only had a losing record in head to head match ups against Dallas, Denver, Indiana, LAC, Memphis, Miami, OKC, and San Antonio last year.  Take Dallas out of that equation (they just seem to have our number) and that is a who's who of the NBA elite.

 

Another thing not taken into consideration is Morey traded away Hill, Flynn, and Thabeet for Camby, Fisher (who was waived) and picks on Mar. 15th of the 2011-12 season.  They also waived Terrence Williams 2 days later.  After the trades, the Rockets finished 10-12.  Now, I won't argue that those guys were helping us win, but I will say that has a huge effect on team morale when management scraps the team like that.  Did the team collapse down the stretch?  Yes.  Are we sure that all falls on McHale.....

 

It is easy to focus on the black and white of wins and losses without taking into consideration what actually went into those wins and losses.

 

This team needs time.  I don't like it anymore than you do, but I'm afraid that is how it's going to go.  McHale has lots of work to do for sure, but when I am watching the Rockets I find more fault in what's happening on the court rather than what's coming from the sidelines.

 

(All stats/info from basketball-reference.com)

[rockets best fan]

OK JG I didn't want to bring up Minny, But one fact you are overlooking when he took over for Flip is he put that train wreck of a lineup together. I hate when teams make a late season push after having stunk the whole year and it's seen as a positive. there was a reason they stunk all year. end of the season runs mean little to me. McHale's time in Minny as both a coach and GM stunk. his first year here that team should have made the playoffs. the way they crashed and burned can only be considered a collapse. last year we were primed for a 6th seed and collapse down the stretch. failure to win meaningful game is an indictment of a coach. his teams are not prepared to perform when the pressure is on. every time the pressure is on the Rockets look confused. We can never agree on this subject. we have a different perspective on who McHale is. he is NOT some basketball guru to me. he is a bad coach trying to learn how to be good. I'm not sure he can. while most people learn from their mistakes, he seems doomed to repeat past transgressions. I have studied him closely in his time here. I know when I see a good coach and I have not seen one since Adelman left town. the only reason I say let McHale coach the rest oft his year is his help in landing D-12, but he doesn't deserve it on merit. want to examine a important stat? look where McHale coached teams ranked in defense and turnovers. I don't know what the stats say, but I would bet they are in the lower half of the league in both categories for any team coached by him. WHY? I tell you why........either he lacks the ability to pass his basketball knowledge on to others or he has no basket ball knowledge. remember the story of the emperor's new cloths? seems nobody want to be the first to say this man is naked  as I said before we will never agree because to me he is naked

[thejohnnygold]

Due to pace, McHale's teams don't post great def. ratings or turnover numbers.  Last I heard, Rockets defense was best in the league with Asik on the floor last season--so there's that.

 

I don't understand how late season winning streaks don't count, but late season losses do.

 

I agree that 2 seasons ago the Rockets collapsed at the end of the season.  I disagree that all of that falls on McHale.  Morey took 1/3 of his roster away and signaled to the team that they were folding it up for this season.  Combine that with Lowry and Martin quitting on the team and I just can't isolate McHale as the culprit.  McHale didn't lose those players--Morey did.

 

And please be careful about putting words in my mouth.  I am in no way saying he is a "basketball guru".  If that's what you are hearing then I don't know what to say.

 

Since we're talking Adelman, let's not lose sight that he has only made the finals twice in 22 years (with the loaded Blazers teams of the early 90's) and in his three years here his defense was below average twice and ranked 4th the year Yao was healthy and we had Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Kyle Lowry, and Mutombo.  He's a fine coach, but he's got flaws too.

 

I agree that we will probably never find common ground here.  I'm not proclaiming McHAle the best leader for our troops--I certainly agree that there are better coaches.  Once again, I just can't agree with the level of fault and blame he is being made to shoulder.

[rockets best fan]

@JG

I said he is not basketball guru to me because you made a reference to his basketball knowledge. not attempting to put words in your mouth, just making a point that I don't respect his basketball knowledge. I don't believe in giving coaches excuses. the NBA is a results business and IMO McHale's results have a negative plus minus according to the talent available to him. nothing I have seen from him in his time here besides his playoff series last year would say to me he can get the job done leading this team. I'm hoping he can, but I'm also less optimistic he will

[thejohnnygold]

It's cool, RBF.  Time will tell for sure.  I don't feel like I'm making excuses for McHale--I just like to view the big picture with as much context as possible.

 

One thing is certain, when players are making their shots coaches always look better

[rocketrick]

I guess all the rants about Coach McHale after the Dallas loss has turned the Rockets season around. Thanks guys!