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The Stats Say: Dwight Howard is not yet back to his normal self


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#1 Red94

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    Posted 06 November 2013 - 02:13 PM

    New post: The Stats Say: Dwight Howard is not yet back to his normal self
    By: Justin Wehr

    Monday’s headline was that Dwight Howard’s health has improved dramatically since joining the Rockets. “His health is 100 percent different,” said Kevin McHale. Dwight added, “I'm moving a lot better. I'm going to get balls that I couldn't get last season.”

    If Dwight Howard is healthy, his stats aren't yet showing it. According to PER and WS/48, Houston is so far getting the L.A. version of Dwight (actually: slightly worse) rather than the Orlando version of Dwight.

    Dwight Howard through week 1.5_2013-14

    (Note: his stats improved modestly after the Portland game, but are still around L.A.-level. You can always view the latest data here.)

    Maybe it’s just early. Maybe Dwight is just working out the kinks with new teammates and a new system. Maybe one more game like the 17-point, 26-rebound outburst will bump up his stats to Orlando-level.

    On the other hand, maybe he really isn’t healthy. Maybe he never will be. Consider this quote from Kevin McHale in the same article:

    Quote:

    Last July, when we got him, he was not healthy. When we did a physical after we signed him, I sat down with our training staff and they were all like, 'Oh boy.' He had a huge discrepancy in his strength in his right leg and his left leg. His glutes and his hamstrings were really weak and his flexibility was completely ... funky.

    McHale’s intention with this quote was to emphasize how much Dwight’s health has improved over the past four months, but count me skeptical. If Dwight’s health was that bad 440 days after his herniated disc surgery, can we really expect him to be back to normal now, a summer later? If Dwight’s health was that bad 440 days after surgery, can we expect Dwight to ever return to his normal, superhuman self, or is the L.A. version of Dwight the new normal?

    Bill Simmons, our greatest NBA historian, is adamant that once big men start breaking down, they don’t get better. And this is not just one of his pet theories: it might be his most frequently stated claim, and he states it with unnerving conviction and solemnity. I would gladly dig into the data to test the hypothesis if only it were stated in a testable way. (I don’t know what it means for a player to “start breaking down.”) Simmons provided some of his own statistical evidence here (see ‘Reality No. 5’), but it isn’t awfully convincing. For what it's worth, the godfather of NBA geekery, Wayne Winston, briefly stated a similar argument here (begins around the 6-minute mark) when discussing his predictions for the 2013-14 Rockets.

    Theories aside, there’s also the eyeball test. I watched games two, three, and four very closely, and I was not seeing what looked like a healthy Dwight. I was seeing a Dwight who was trailing far behind in transition, who was dawdling under the basket on both ends of the floor (even getting multiple defensive three-second violations), and who was getting caught by the rim on dunk attempts. I was seeing a Dwight who was rarely leaving his feet to grab rebounds or challenge shots, and who seemed reluctant to even raise his arms. (Note: this post was drafted before the Portland game, and I thought Dwight looked a bit better and more athletic in that game.)

    Important reminder: The L.A. version of Dwight is still extremely valuable and probably worth max dollars. The L.A. version of Dwight is still one of the best two or three centers in the league. With the L.A. version of Dwight, the Rockets can contend.

    Just imagine what they could do with the Orlando version of Dwight.


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    #2 Rahat Huq

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      Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:31 PM

      The sample size thus far is just way too small to be using those metrics to draw any type of conclusion, in my opinion, esp. if one more big game is capable of shifting the entire assessment.  


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      #3 j_wehr

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        Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:00 PM

        While I agree that it's too early to conclude on the basis of stats that Dwight is not (or will never be) healthy, it's not too early to say that Dwight has not been playing up to Orlando-level. That's not a conclusion, just a statement of fact.

        What I find especially interesting is that his stats are so un-Orlando-like despite having a huge first game and pretty big fifth game. With two out of five big games, if anything, you'd expect the early results to be exaggeratedly positive, but they're not.


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        #4 Alituro

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          Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:09 PM

          The sample size thus far is just way too small to be using those metrics to draw any type of conclusion, in my opinion, esp. if one more big game is capable of shifting the entire assessment.  

          Exactly my thoughts, we should revisit this again in January and see what shows. Remember "Orlando Dwight" had years with the same coach and mostly the same teammates. Give this roster time to figure itself out and save this assessment for mid-season. It is a team game after all, so also remember that in ORL Dwight deferred to no-one, here and in LAL he is the second offensive option. Quality of team surrounding Dwight needs to be factored in also. T-mac was once the league's leading scorer but resided on the league's worst team, so when he moved to a better team (Rockets), his points naturally dropped off because he didn't have to go it alone.


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          #5 Mason Khamvilay

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          Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:33 PM

          I've noticed some mis-communications where Dwight was hesitant to hedge, hesitant to help in certain situations, but he certainly looks like he is moving a lot better than he was in L.A. He definitely has my honest vote for DPoY. I feel like he was more active when he was in Orlando though, I doubt he will lead the league in RAPM like he did back then. 


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          #6 Cooper

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            Posted 06 November 2013 - 05:06 PM

            Dwight isn't a Wow like a lebron or Westbrook athlete anymore and that's the biggest difference. He's still probably a top 10 defensive player but he won't be as dominant
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            #7 rockets best fan

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            Posted 06 November 2013 - 05:29 PM

            I disagree Howard is looking like the LA D-12. to many things these stats don't account for like how trying to experiment with Asik may be affecting him or fitting into a new team with other good players  who also are scoring options, in addition  sample size. we are just 5 games deep into the season. way WAY to early to be drawing conclusions. D-12 if watched seems to be returning to the Orlando D-12 to me. I see the explosiveness that he lacked for part of last year..........may be it just takes a little longer for the stats to prove this out


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            you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


            #8 John P

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              Posted 06 November 2013 - 06:00 PM



              Does it make that much of a difference if we make it to the WCF or the NBA Finals?

              But in the spirit of the debate, a lot probably depends on feeling out the team dynamic and getting on the same page with everyone.
              Working along side Asik has to suck for both of them when it is probably so much easier for both of them to just play the 5 without having to accomidate the other.
              That still leaves questions about explosiveness and just examples of pure athletics but for now I am willing to wait until the all star break.


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              #9 Mason Khamvilay

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              Posted 06 November 2013 - 08:44 PM

              Dwight isn't a Wow like a lebron or Westbrook athlete anymore and that's the biggest difference. He's still probably a top 10 defensive player but he won't be as dominant

              He's still PROBABLY a top 10 defender? Whoa.. I don't even see how it's a question whether or not he's top 1 let alone top 10..


              Edited by 2016Champions, 06 November 2013 - 08:45 PM.

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              #10 Chichos

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                Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:00 PM

                How does his usage rate compare in Orlando vs LA vs Houston?


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                #11 Chichos

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                  Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:13 PM

                  So I decided to answer my own question

                   

                  http://www.basketbal...#advanced::none

                   

                  scroll down to see advanced stats.  His usage is actually up slightly from LA.  As his rebounding numbers have actually improved I am inclined to believe his physical abilities are coming back.  I don't take too much from his block numbers dropping off as Asik's did the same (his steals % dropped off significantly as well) when he transfered to Houston's system.  I think this might be more of a schematic issue than a physical one. 

                  http://www.basketbal...a/asikom01.html

                   

                  In the end I agree that he doesn't look quite right to the eye.  He just doesn't seem as bouncy as I remember him.  But his points per game will come back to Orlando levels if he can just hit 70% of his free throws even if his athleticism never returns.


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                  #12 j_wehr

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                    Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:24 PM

                    It seems like the most common responses to this post are: (1) small sample size, so it's too early for these stats to mean anything, and (2) new team/new system, so it's too early for these stats to mean anything. 
                     
                    I have a couple of rebuttals. 
                     
                    Re: small sample size, all of the "elite" players that Dwight gets mentioned with -- Lebron, CP, KD, Love, Curry -- have a PER above 26 already, and they all have an even smaller sample size than Dwight because they played fewer games. With small sample sizes, the issue is that not-so-elite players temporarily look elite (e.g., CJ Miles, Zaza Pachulia), but there isn't so much of an issue with the reverse: in other words, you don't usually see that elite players temporarily look mediocre. The LeBrons of the world statistically float to the top pretty quickly. Dwight isn't there yet, and there's a good chance that means he won't be getting there anytime soon.
                     
                    Re: new team/system, let's look at some other marquee-ish names playing with a new team this season. Andre Iguodala so far has career high PER and WS/48. So does JJ Redick. So does Paul Pierce. Their numbers will certainly drop down, and I'm cherrypicking a bit, but I'm just giving evidence that being on a new team does not necessarily mean that you're going to struggle initially. On the contrary, maybe being on a new team makes players want to play harder and win over the fans/coaches/teammates, so maybe there tends to be an early, artificial spurt in stats. Which would be bad news for Dwight...
                     
                    I don't mean to suggest that anyone should draw conclusions from these stats, but I also don't think they should be dismissed outright as meaningless. They give an _early indication_ that Dwight might not be back to his Orlando self. That's all.

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                    #13 Cooper

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                      Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:36 PM

                      He's still PROBABLY a top 10 defender? Whoa.. I don't even see how it's a question whether or not he's top 1 let alone top 10..

                      Ehh it wasn't meant to be a super bold statement but I don't think he's clear cut best defensive player like he used to be.
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                      #14 rockets best fan

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                      Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:37 PM

                      @j_wehr

                      totally disagree with your rebuttal. while you may not like it.........the two reasons given are valid. now if you had some kind of physical matrix for us to look at showing he couldn't jump as high or run as fast it would lend more creditability to your point of view, but emerging from the gate a little slow on the season stat wise doesn't prove that point.


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                      you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


                      #15 timetodienow1234567

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                      Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:40 PM

                      @j_wehr

                      totally disagree with your rebuttal. while you may not like it.........the two reasons given are valid. now if you had some kind of physical matrix for us to look at showing he couldn't jump as high or run as fast it would lend more creditability to your point of view, but emerging from the gate a little slow on the season stat wise doesn't prove that point.

                       

                      But......stats are god, aren't they???

                       

                      My whole world was just shattered.


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                      Why so Serious? :D


                      #16 Mason Khamvilay

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                      Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:54 PM

                      Even at 70-80% Dwight is still the best defender in the league, and right now he looks about 90%.


                      Edited by 2016Champions, 06 November 2013 - 11:56 PM.

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                      #17 j_wehr

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                        Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:05 AM

                        2016, I would be more apt to agree with your last statement if you substituted the word "rebound" for "defender." Right now, Howard wouldn't even get my vote for the Rockets' DPOY. That would go to Asik. I get that Dwight has an "invisible" effect on the game with players less willing to drive or pulling up for long twos or not even trying to crash the boards, but I don't think that effect is nearly as strong as it used to be. If I had to choose either him or Asik to get one big stop at the end of the game, I'd choose Asik.


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                        #18 Rahat Huq

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                          Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:47 AM

                          Agreed - I'd put Asik above him.  


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                          #19 Mason Khamvilay

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                          Posted 07 November 2013 - 05:00 AM

                          I don't have the stats to prove it and I could be wrong, but I think most of our opponents points so far have come off fast breaks and long range shots, I don't see a whole lot of attacking the rim when Dwight's there.


                          Edited by 2016Champions, 07 November 2013 - 05:01 AM.

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                          #20 rockets best fan

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                          Posted 07 November 2013 - 06:35 AM

                          I don't have the stats to prove it and I could be wrong, but I think most of our opponents points so far have come off fast breaks and long range shots, I don't see a whole lot of attacking the rim when Dwight's there.

                          I agree...........just his intimidation will keep many from even attempting to enter the paint


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                          you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)





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