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@  Mario Peña : (25 April 2016 - 02:40 AM) I can't stand the Warriors but I hate to see great players fall prey to injuries. Seems like Steph could be done till next season which is unfortunate since he does play on one team I root for, Team USA.
@  majik19 : (24 April 2016 - 10:02 PM) down by 23 points and we have McDaniels AND Brewer in. WTF?
@  majik19 : (24 April 2016 - 09:48 PM) the difference in this gme has been Brewer is in and Beverley is out
@  majik19 : (24 April 2016 - 09:46 PM) Team gave up. I know it's hard when the Warriors won't miss and we can't hit anything, but man.
@  majik19 : (24 April 2016 - 09:34 PM) can't believe they called a T on Howard there. Rockets need to hit some 3s. Why aren't they fouling Ezeli? They're clearly on a run.
@  majik19 : (24 April 2016 - 09:30 PM) Rockets just not playing smart right now. Livingston has to get at least a T for that. Should be nothing on Howard.
@  majik19 : (24 April 2016 - 08:27 PM) spoke too soon about Brewer - misses a wide open reverse layup (and why was it a reverse?)
@  majik19 : (24 April 2016 - 08:22 PM) i am loving this Beasley-Harden offense. Simple but effective. Brewer actually being effective right now too!
@  majik19 : (24 April 2016 - 08:14 PM) Warriors just got "Curry'd" by Harden
@  majik19 : (24 April 2016 - 08:03 PM) Bogut is pretty thoroughly outplaying Howard early.
@  ale11 : (22 April 2016 - 08:36 PM) I know everyone is already asking for KJ....but I have to say: I wish JBB tried putting KJ on Livingston, I'm sure he wouldn't get bullied in the post like Pat is. Depending on matchups, I'd like Harden to guard him as well. There would be no risks of gifting any 3's
@  txtdo1411 : (22 April 2016 - 07:09 PM) Finally JB sat Brewer. I wish we would stop playing Terry as well. Missed multiple wide open 3s, and was getting abused defensively. I'd much rather see KJ come in as a back up guard than Terry.
@  DenverRocket : (22 April 2016 - 04:35 AM) Ariza is having a tough time, but I reckon he will come back big in the next game - he just can't keep missing open threes.
@  Mario Peña : (22 April 2016 - 04:31 AM) Yes...
@  majik19 : (22 April 2016 - 04:28 AM) but pretty amazing we did pull that off. As Rahat said, without Curry we are at best as good as GS.
@  majik19 : (22 April 2016 - 04:27 AM) did anyone else notice that MICHAEL BEASLEY was defending green on that last play? lucky... also that inbound at the end Ariza almost gave it to them! at least throw it at our basket, not theirs!
@  majik19 : (22 April 2016 - 04:15 AM) everything on the line and ariza blows a layup. surprise surprise. Ariza should never, ever dribble.
@  slick shoes : (21 April 2016 - 10:46 PM) It's rumored that JVG has had his eye on our coaching role for a bit. I just hope that if he IS our guy, then he ends up being the guy we've all wanted. I would be curious as to how Harden responds to JVG.
@  DenverRocket : (21 April 2016 - 10:36 PM) Being reported that he's agreed to 5yrs for $35m with the Wizards. Looks like JVG could be our man.
@  slick shoes : (21 April 2016 - 12:12 PM) Let everyone chase Scott Brooks. I don't want him and thinking he'll lure in KD does not make sense to me.

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What Do the Rockets Need from the Power Forward Position?


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#1 Red94

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    Posted 21 October 2013 - 04:17 PM

    New post: What Do the Rockets Need from the Power Forward Position?
    By: Forrest Walker

    We know what the power forward does. He’s the scoring big man, the play next to the center who helps corral rebounds and scores the ball in and around the paint. He’s big, powerful, methodical and hopefully plays some defense. He can probably shoot a bit better than the small forward, and sometimes might even have a three point shot. That’s what you get out of the power forward, isn’t it?

    We all know better, too. Positions mean less and less each season, and different teams have deeply different needs and rosters. The traditional, plodding big man ideal of the power forward is being interred as we speak, and the Rockets are happy to throw dirt on the grave. The Houston Rockets don’t have a traditional power forward because they don’t need or even want a traditional power forward. What they do need from that position is complicated and nontraditional, much like the Rockets themselves.

    First and foremost, the Rockets need shooting. They need shooting from the point guard, the shooting guard, the small forward and even the power forward. If Houston’s offense is to work, every player except the center needs to be able to camp out at the three point line and set some screens if need be. Shooting keeps defenses honest, and honest defenses can’t pack the paint. Without a packed paint, Dwight Howard and James Harden can use their pick and roll prowess to sow chaos and reap piles of points. All of this goes back to being a credible three point threat, a skill which Houston spends time and effort finding.

    The next most important ability the second-tallest player needs to accomplish is simple in concept: Defense. If a power forward can’t guard the opposing power forward, a defensive hole arises. Like water coming through a levee, opposing offenses will quickly attack that spot until the entire structure collapses. While a small ball style lineup with a Chandler Parsons at the four may excel on offense, the defensive liabilities add up. Larger players will simply back down any wings who might be masquerading as bigs. The curious thing about this need is that it’s possible to spread it across the five players on the floor, unlike something like shooting. If Garcia, for example, is able to defend effectively at the perimeter, Dwight Howard or Ömer Aşık can prioritize sticking to the largest post threat. As long as a player on the floor is able to cope with each defensive assignment, those assignments need not align with the positions as we understand them.

    The last function the power forward spot will have this year for Houston is as an overflow valve for the center position. Dwight Howard and Ömer Aşık both command starter’s minutes. In order to reach the maximum number of minutes for Aşık, the Rockets will have to slide him in next to Dwight Howard at times. It may be a disaster on offense, but that situation features brutal interior defense. This means that the power forward spot won’t have as many minutes free for the starter and bench player, which on another team may have caused a problem on its own. In Houston, a group of young, unproven players make up that rotation. Unproven, role player type players are the lowest maintenance in that regard, as their minutes demands are liable to be much lower.

    When all of this is looked at holistically, a pattern emerges. This type of shooting, defensively versatile, undemanding player is perfect for a small ball lineup. A particularly large three can fulfill these requirements, which begins to make Terrence Jones and Donatas Motiejunas expendable. Chandler Parsons, Omri Casspi or Francisco Garcia suddenly look like not only options at the the four, but as viable starters. Any of them can shoot, all three are big enough to passably defend most opposing bigs, and the ability to slide them to the small forward positions allows Aşık to absorb as many minutes per night as they care to let him. The Houston Rockets don’t need a normal bruiser down low. They need the stretch four of the future, and there’s a decent chance the future is already in Houston.


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    #2 Mason Khamvilay

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    Posted 21 October 2013 - 07:53 PM

    Our offense was deadly when Delfino was at the 4 last season, but we also gave up a lot of defense, so I guess the ideal 4 would be someone who can give us the good of Delfino without the bad. Personally I think Casspi is a step in the right direction, it's not the huge leap we would have with someone like Ilyasova but for the league minimum we're definitely getting our money's worth. Just think, Rashard Lewis got a $180 million contract for basically doing what Casspi can do at the 4 (Casspi shoots 44% on corner 3's).


    Edited by 2016Champions, 21 October 2013 - 07:56 PM.

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    #3 thejohnnygold

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    Posted 21 October 2013 - 08:17 PM

    Our offense was deadly when Delfino was at the 4 last season, but we also gave up a lot of defense, so I guess the ideal 4 would be someone who can give us the good of Delfino without the bad. Personally I think Casspi is a step in the right direction, it's not the huge leap we would have with someone like Ilyasova but for the league minimum we're definitely getting our money's worth. Just think, Rashard Lewis got a $180 million contract for basically doing what Casspi can do at the 4 (Casspi shoots 44% on corner 3's).

    When you put it that way Lewis' contract sounds awful (and it mostly was)....His game dropped off considerably once he got paid and went to Orlando.  Check out Basketball Reference's page on him--especially the last 3 years in Seattle.  They've added a new stat called "3 pt. attempt rate"  it's the percentage of shots he takes behind the arc in reference to his total shots taken.  Once he got to Orlando it went up 40-50% from where it was.

     

    I'm really excited about Casspi too.  I agree, getting him for the league minimum may prove to be the best steal of the off-season (Dwight excluded).


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    #4 rockets best fan

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    Posted 21 October 2013 - 08:22 PM

    I waited for a bit before responding to this post because I'm still sorting out how I feel about the points being raised within this post. I see the advantage of running small ball against some teams and I can see the point raised that Asik can be bought in against bigger teams. however I am not so quick to cast aside the benefit I think T-Jones and D-Mo can provide. within the first unit whoever plays PF isn't going to need to score that much. they only need to be a efficient scorer so as to keep opposing defenses honest. what's much more critical is defense and rebounding. I am not sure that our small ball crew can produce that result regularly. I'm more a fan of bringing Casspi in from the bench to help balance the scoring load within the second unit. there is no doubt at that the position will be handled by committee for awhile, but this Asik Howard pairing is still the biggest linchpin in seeking a true direction at the position


    Edited by rockets best fan, 21 October 2013 - 08:23 PM.

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    My new years resolution.....drink that special bottle of wine, take your son on that fishing trip, live each day as if it were my last because everyday of LIFE is special B)


    #5 John P

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      Posted 21 October 2013 - 09:29 PM



      who is the best 3pt shooting 4 that has good D? Does that person exist. I know it isn't LMA. Is it Love or Bosh? My guess is Bosh is decent at D, having had to buy into LeBron's committment to win but who knows. It usually seems that great D players end up not being great defenders.


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      #6 Losthief

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      Posted 21 October 2013 - 09:38 PM

      its DIrk imho. Dirk is a average to plus rebounder, average defender, +shooter, + range

       

      Bosh is a average rebounder, a plus defender (he's great on help d), + shooter, average range

       

      Love is a plus rebounder, not a plus defender, + shooter, + range

       

      Aldridge is average defender, minus rebounder, + shooter, average range.

       

      If channing fyre could play d or rebound he'd be worth getting...but alas if wishes were true....

       

      yeah....rangy stretch 4's with good defense who can anchor the defense when howard isn't in there (assuming we have to give up asik in a trade, we need someone who can do replace that at least marginally), are just not in abundance.

       

      I like bosh and aldridge for there ability to (at least to a small degree) anchor the defense better than the others if we lose omer. Ideally a 3 team trade involving a back-up defensive anchor (a la bogut, robin lopez, etc etc) and a solid defending stretch four would be ideal, which is why im sure we haven't jumped the gun yet on omer.


      Edited by Losthief, 21 October 2013 - 09:44 PM.

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      #7 Mason Khamvilay

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      Posted 21 October 2013 - 10:55 PM

      its DIrk imho. Dirk is a average to plus rebounder, average defender, +shooter, + range

       

      Bosh is a average rebounder, a plus defender (he's great on help d), + shooter, average range

       

      Love is a plus rebounder, not a plus defender, + shooter, + range

       

      Aldridge is average defender, minus rebounder, + shooter, average range.

       

      If channing fyre could play d or rebound he'd be worth getting...but alas if wishes were true....

       

      yeah....rangy stretch 4's with good defense who can anchor the defense when howard isn't in there (assuming we have to give up asik in a trade, we need someone who can do replace that at least marginally), are just not in abundance.

       

      I like bosh and aldridge for there ability to (at least to a small degree) anchor the defense better than the others if we lose omer. Ideally a 3 team trade involving a back-up defensive anchor (a la bogut, robin lopez, etc etc) and a solid defending stretch four would be ideal, which is why im sure we haven't jumped the gun yet on omer.

      Why is there no mention for Ilyasova here? He's a pretty decent defender, not elite but definitely above average, and he's an absolute sniper from 3.


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      #8 Rahat Huq

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        Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:01 AM

        Ilyasova needs to be a target and is an under the radar guy.  

         

        I think I'd actually prefer someone who can shoot and also sort of handle the rock (like Chandler) while realizing that player would give up size.  Hell, to that end, what about just playing Chandler at the 4 and trading for an All-Star level small forward?  If all 4 of your perimeter players can handle the ball, you can run alot of interesting misdirection pick and rolls...and I think you make up what you lose on the other end.  


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        #9 rockets best fan

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        Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:22 AM

        I really like Ilyasova..........a lot, but can he play backup center? NO.........so how is he that much of an upgrade. we already have players who can perform Ilyasova's strengths so why would we give up Asik to duplicate skillsets. if it comes down to moving Asik we should be looking to add new skillsets rather than duplicating ones that already exist within the team. I would much rather (if we go with the small ball lineup as the bread and butter lineup) put Casspi there and use Asik to add a new wrinkle. if we are not trading for a star player at the 4 spot I would rather ride it out with Asik whether he's happy or not. the defensive gains from Asik outweigh bringing in more PF's to help further clog the position if not receiving a star player there. also I don't think we can overlook this point. with Camby's unsettled status, whatever player we bring in needs to be able to play center in a pinch. that will give us greater balance and more options to play with


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        My new years resolution.....drink that special bottle of wine, take your son on that fishing trip, live each day as if it were my last because everyday of LIFE is special B)


        #10 timetodienow1234567

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        Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:39 AM

        1) On ball defense
        2) 18 foot jumper
        3) Help defense
        4) 3 point shot
        5) Rebounding
        6) Ability to play C for short stretches
        7) PnR
        8) Cutting
        9) Passing
        10) Toughness
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        Why so Serious? :D


        #11 Losthief

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        Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:49 AM

        Why is there no mention for Ilyasova here? He's a pretty decent defender, not elite but definitely above average, and he's an absolute sniper from 3.

         

        honestly i forgot him lol.

         

        I'd rate him minus rebounder, average defender, +shooter, +range


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        LoSTHieF

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        #12 ale11

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        Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:04 AM

        Milwaukee have already commited themselves on Sanders, so I'm not sure they are interested in acquiring Asik....


        Edited by ale11, 22 October 2013 - 02:05 AM.

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        #13 rocketrick

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          Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:56 AM

          After seeing the Rockets play earlier tonight, I am more comfortable with our roster in terms of the PF position. It should be renamed the Stretch 4 position, though, as that is what this position has evolved into over the past few years in the NBA with only a couple of exceptions league wide.

          I believe Casspi can handle a heavy workload at the PF spot, at least in the early part of the season, until one of our sophomores steps up to become a reliable starter. Even in stating this, it seems possible to me that one of the sophomores may be inserted in the starting lineup for a few minutes in both opening halves. I think Casspi is going to be more effective for us coming off the bench and can handle some time on the floor with Francisco Garcia, D12 or Asik, and 2 of our guards, be it Harden, Lin or Beverly, which would give Parsons time for a breather. I really like the 8-man rotation, plus one, that I think the Rockets are headed for to begin this season.

          It would be helpful if the Rockets could find one more dependable swingman to cover for inevitable injuries that will come during the season. Brewer may be worth hanging onto for his defensive prowess. He made one excellent steal in his limited time on the floor in tonight's game and was a whisker away from a second steal. I'm not certain if Reggie is going to make the roster, he may have missed too much of the pre-season already and didn't show much in tonight's game I his limited playing time.

          In my mind, the ideal trade for Asik may now be for a more dependable 3 who can fill in, hit 3's, play stellar defense and just be consistent along with either a stretch 4 or a solid (and cheaper) backup for D12. If Camby can come back and give the Rockets some steady backup C minutes, then that should allow the Rockets to have more flexibility going forward with Asik.
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          #14 It's Dee Way Ferrell

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          Posted 22 October 2013 - 11:02 AM

          That's injury to insult.
          My fondest memory of the 1st championship year. That team featured Thorpe & the Dream, two low post players remind you. A defensive minded 3 pt shooting wing, a crafty 2, double edged pg rotation.
          But the most exhilarating time of that year for 18 straight games I seen Mad Max, The Jet, & E.T. all 3 punched it in every time on a break. Man as a bright kid understanding the effects with which a dunks mean. We ended up 17-1 during that run. But it also meant 'we mean business', played hard, ran hard, true we ran out of steam before the season ended, traded for the Kiss of Death, & finished how we started. Soon as we got in the playoffs, now including the K.O.D. with Mad Max, The Jet, & E.T., brought back the Punch Brothers on the breaks during the playoffs. The rest is history. That wa$ a mentality. That wa$ when clutch wa$ born. That wa$ when BELIEVE wa$ born, & WE BELIEVE was reincarnated.

          Ye of little faith said Jesus to his disciples why are you so faithless.

          I myself am ashamed. That you consider all these other alleys, & hadn't yet seen the fruits of our harvest. I have more love for the Rox than I do the texans, but if Rox fans act like Tex fans, we don't deserve championships. We're so eager to turn our backs on them because they get paid hundred thousands to multi-millions, but in reality we chose not 2 be in their shoes, we chose safer routes in life, they chose money, fame &/or championships. Keep Asik & Lin & we'll win rings
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          I'm so Ferrell!

          #15 rocketrick

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            Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:57 PM

            D. Ferrell----------Welcome to the best Rockets forum in the universe!

            I am speechless and breathless after your post, yet, keep in mind the game has changed from when the Rockets won back to back championships to the current day. Stretch 4 back in the 1990's wasn't even a thought, much less reality with any of the teams of that time.

            I clearly remember the back to back championships and your post brought back wonderful memories.
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            #16 Mason Khamvilay

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            Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:46 PM

            I really hate the term "stretch 4". It just helps to have a PF who can stretch the floor to 23 feet, but for some reason the term stretch 4 is associated with SF's who play the 4 so guys like Robert Horry supposedly isn't a stretch 4.. what a pointless term lol


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            #17 rockets best fan

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            Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:54 PM

            D. Ferrell----------Welcome to the best Rockets forum in the universe!

            I am speechless and breathless after your post, yet, keep in mind the game has changed from when the Rockets won back to back championships to the current day. Stretch 4 back in the 1990's wasn't even a thought, much less reality with any of the teams of that time.

            I clearly remember the back to back championships and your post brought back wonderful memories.

            I disagree. the stretch four was born here in clutch city. during the second championship who was our PF? if you said anything other than Robert Horry you are mistaken, because that's who played the position while Elie held down the SF position


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            My new years resolution.....drink that special bottle of wine, take your son on that fishing trip, live each day as if it were my last because everyday of LIFE is special B)


            #18 Buckko

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              Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:19 AM

              Casspi is a bench player, an effective bench player and not a starter. He wouldn't due too good against starting caliber PFs. He doesn't have Delfino's build.


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              #19 Smoothgrandmama

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                Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:43 AM

                Sounds like most of you want Carl Landry......
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                #20 NorEastern

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                  Posted 23 October 2013 - 04:30 AM

                  The Rockets need little from their PF. Below average defense. Below average rebounding. Hitting the three at a 32% clip. Defending the likes of West and Zach who would make road kill out of Casspi or Parsons. But what is much more interesting is what the Rockets do not need from their PF. Shots. There are not enough of those to go around. The Rockets offense is dominated by players who can score. Every shot taken by the PF is one less shot for Harden, Howard, Parsons ... Only one ball and one basket.

                  The other thing the Rockets need from the PF position is cheap.
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