86 replies to this topic

[timetodienow1234567]

I don't consider either of them superstars. They round out my top 10. But neither were legit superstars. They were the ceiling of a role player. 

[timetodienow1234567]

Off topic, but which statement do you consider more asinine?

 

1.) Derrick Rose saying he is the best player in the world

 

or

 

2.) John Wall saying he's the best point guard in the NBA 

[rockets best fan]

some think harden can crack to top 2 of all time in SGs this is my list

1. Dr. J after all he was the originator of the funk

2.Jordan while great was more media machine and less basketball player than Dr. J

3.Jerry West

4. Clyde Drexler

5. Reggie Miller

 

I think you can argue the arrangement, but these are the top 5 all time at the position. Harden may indeed crack the top 5. he appears to have more on the ball than Miller, but the other four?

[rockets best fan]

Off topic, but which statement do you consider more asinine?

 

1.) Derrick Rose saying he is the best player in the world

 

or

 

2.) John Wall saying he's the best point guard in the NBA 

they are both out there on a limb. but Wall is a little more delusional after all Rose can argue that he was MVP his last full year in the league

[Mario Peña]

I can't fault the guys for saying they're the best, that's how you carry yourself when you have acsended to that level of your field. No one can actually expect Wall to say "well after Rose Irving is 2a and I am 2b but Lillard may catch us." These cats are competitors not analysts of the NBA, come on.

[Buckko]

some think harden can crack to top 2 of all time in SGs this is my list

1. Dr. J after all he was the originator of the funk

2.Jordan while great was more media machine and less basketball player than Dr. J

3.Jerry West

4. Clyde Drexler

5. Reggie Miller

 

I think you can argue the arrangement, but these are the top 5 all time at the position. Harden may indeed crack the top 5. he appears to have more on the ball than Miller, but the other four?

He can easily beat Clyde.

[rockets best fan]

He can easily beat Clyde.

I think you underestimate what Clyde was as a player........he's not in the HOF for nothing

[timetodienow1234567]

So, Dr. J is better than Jordan...................

 

I have nothing to say that won't get me banned, so I won't say anything.

[rockets best fan]

So, Dr. J is better than Jordan...................

 

I have nothing to say that won't get me banned, so I won't say anything.

Yes he was better than Jordan. let me say this..................Jordan was not the greatest player to ever walk this planet. Jordan was great I'm not trying to take anything from him, however Jordan benefitted from a Nike driven media frenzy that made him appear greater than he was. also I have seen players get star calls, but never seen anything approaching what Jordan got.....just ask Byron Russel. much of what you seen Jordan do came from Dr. J.

[timetodienow1234567]

So, he's an innovator? I agree. Dr. J was the first to do a lot of stuff. But he wasn't the best. Just like if you drive the first car ever built. Just because it's the original doesn't mean it'll go faster than a sports car. Come on now. 

[Mario Peña]

I agree Jordan is overrated by younger generations. The 90's didn't really have the superstars (Karl Malone is overrated in my opinion) at the peak of their powers that the 60's, 80's and the last decade had.

[timetodienow1234567]

I agree Jordan is overrated by younger generations. The 90's didn't really have the superstars (Karl Malone is overrated in my opinion) at the peak of their powers that the 60's, 80's and the last decade had.

 

I agree. But Jordan still has 6 rings and I don't think Karl Malone is overrated. He's probably 16th or 17th in my all time list. That's about where other people have him. 

 

What's your top 10 list if Jordan's not number one? Do you think Dr. J is the GOAT as well?

[rockets best fan]

true when comparing cars, but not basketball players. first I don't believe in comparing players who play different positions because their responsibilities in those positions are different. so I can only compare him to the SG/SF position. however when I consider some of the other greats say Oscar Roberson, bird, dominque, Dr. J and several others while he is among them he was not clearly above them. basketball is a team game. some stars never won rings, but were every bit as dominate as Jordan was. I don't care how dominate a player is if the front office is unable to fill the gaps around said player no rings will be in their future. beside Robert Horry has seven rings....is he better than Jordan.....of course not. so rings can't be the only measuring stick of greatness 

[timetodienow1234567]

Did I say it was? It is, however, a huge factor. Other factors come into play such as defensive prowess, all star teams, longevity, and many more. I think Jordan wins when factoring in every category. I don't think he's far and away the best player, but when comparing Dr. J to Jordan it's not even close. When you get to guys like Bird and Oscar it does get a little bit closer.

[Mario Peña]

That's tough to put down and stick with because I waiver from year to year. If we want to talk about rings and greats why not put Russell at the top? You know what I mean, but then again I believe Chamberlain has a case that could be argued. You could argue that West, Erving and Bird are in the conversation. I never watched him play of course since I was born in the early 70's but I got a soft spot for Robertson, just an amazing player. And then, to me, the most overlooked which is baffling is Abdul-Jabbar who has rings and personal accomplishments spanning decades. If Duncan (who i defintely rank above Kobe) would have won it last year he would be in the conversation. If push comes to shove on some days I would have Jordan as number one but he is in no way head and shoulders above Russell and Chamberlain and some days I might have one of them at the top. Great conversation but definitely a tough one.

[rockets best fan]

Did I say it was? It is, however, a huge factor. Other factors come into play such as defensive prowess, all star teams, longevity, and many more. I think Jordan wins when factoring in every category. I don't think he's far and away the best player, but when comparing Dr. J to Jordan it's not even close. When you get to guys like Bird and Oscar it does get a little bit closer.

Oscar Roberson averaged a triple double for a whole year....has Jordan ever been that dominate? that's what I call domination

[Mario Peña]

I also agree innovation counts for something as is the case with the Beatles, no one will match their greatness.

I also agree with rockets best fan that it makes more sense to rank by position or area on the floor but its a fun conversation to have either way.

[miketheodio]

lilliard, george, drummond 

[Mario Peña]

You know I originally had Cousins but maybe the right choice is Drummond.

[Losthief]

i choose cousins, wall, and green (don't forget green sat out a year+ with the heart thingy, but we'll find out this year with the celtics rebuild, his game is just so versatile.)

 

as for best sg of all time question, harden isn't even close yet. And wade, pre-injuries was probably on par with Clyde. Clyde gets underrated cause he had to play in the same era as jordan. You really think hakeem would only have 2 titles if jordan wasn't playing/existed. Jordan kind of screwed some great players aka malone/stockton, Kemp, Barkley, Starks, Ewing, etc etc would probably could of at least gotten one title if Jordan hadn't played.

 

Harden wasn't even choosen over wade this year on the espn insider rankings....much less already all time. He's got a long way to go for that discussion, but his potential is definetly up there. Allen Iverson's gotta be in there too, Tim Hardaway at his peak, T-Mac, Sam Jones, a few others probably. Harden might be top 15ish right now, but until his had sustained success maybe wait on the train a bit. But I'd argue by year end he'll be the best in the league right now, so thats good!

Edited by Losthief, 04 August 2013 - 10:46 PM.