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@  majik19 : (13 October 2015 - 09:09 PM) Apparently we claimed Arsalan Kazemi off waivers from the Hawks today... yet another undersized (6'7") power forward for Morey's cupboard.
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@  SadLakerFan : (16 September 2015 - 04:37 AM) Man, as a Laker fan, I'm learning how little you care about the off season when your team sucks. Anyway, a quick moment to remember Moses. Still remember watching the 81 team as a kid - losing record, NBA Finals. I would have cried w/joy if they could have beaten the Celtics.
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Asik's Value


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#21 Buckko

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    Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:08 AM

    I agree Asik is valuable......no argument there. D-mo will be the backup center on this team when Asik is moved.

    Demo has no center qualities you would just most likely bump up smith, but that would still be bad. 


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    #22 Steven

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      Posted 30 July 2013 - 01:11 PM

      Asik will net Morey a second first round pick in the greatest draft since 2003. D-Mo will be the backup big man rotating with Howard and Jones with Camby used in case of foul trouble.

      Buckko watch D-Mo's games from his last season in the EuroLeague when he was like in the top 5 in rebounding. Last year was him having to learn the physical part of the NBA game. This year he will show all his skills.
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      #23 Cooper

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        Posted 30 July 2013 - 01:57 PM

        Ideally we get a first for him this year and a future first or another solid bench player at the deadline. We wont he getting an all star for him unless there is a for sure lotto pick or blue chip prospect going with and we can't keep him to where he becomes an unhappy expiring contract and loses trade value. And no expiring contracts are not worth anything unless you eat a bad contract or the other team has full confidence they can retain him.
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        #24 Mason Khamvilay

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        Posted 30 July 2013 - 02:57 PM

        I doubt he walks if we win a championship or get to the finals considering this team is a top contender, the best chemistry between players on a team, and working with Mchale and Hakeem. Also due to the fact that he will be a big part of the team.

         

        Asik has also said recently he would be fine with being D12's backup. So no he is not whining and complaining.

        Saying it and meaning it are two different things. 


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        #25 Buckko

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          Posted 30 July 2013 - 03:47 PM

          Asik will net Morey a second first round pick in the greatest draft since 2003. D-Mo will be the backup big man rotating with Howard and Jones with Camby used in case of foul trouble.

          Buckko watch D-Mo's games from his last season in the EuroLeague when he was like in the top 5 in rebounding. Last year was him having to learn the physical part of the NBA game. This year he will show all his skills.

          I know demo has offensive skills and a jumper, but we need major rim protectors to make up for the lack of defense played by our guards.


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          #26 timetodienow1234567

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          Posted 30 July 2013 - 03:51 PM

          What does winning mean if you're not an integral part of it? It's different when you're older, but Asiks young enough that he won't accept coming off the bench after his contract ends.
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          Why so Serious? :D


          #27 Buckko

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            Posted 30 July 2013 - 03:53 PM

            What does winning mean if you're not an integral part of it? It's different when you're older, but Asiks young enough that he won't accept coming off the bench after his contract ends.

            Asik will be getting major minutes, close to when he started because he only averaged 30. Also you don't know if he will be unhappy in this situation.


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            #28 rockets best fan

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            Posted 30 July 2013 - 04:00 PM

            Asik will be getting major minutes, close to when he started because he only averaged 30. Also you don't know if he will be unhappy in this situation.

            it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out Asik won't be happy after having proved himself a starter. he may mask it for awhile, but that won't last long


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            you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


            #29 thejohnnygold

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            Posted 30 July 2013 - 05:02 PM

            I know we've done this before so I will try to be brief in restating my opinion on this.

             

            I would rather stand pat and utilize the talent we have to compete for a championship (which I think we have enough talent for) over the next two years.  I think that any trade for a PF (which is what most people seem to be angling for) would not net us as significant a gain as most think once you account for the costs.

             

            Instead, I view the ample cap space we will have in 2015 as the best asset to use.  In doing this, not only do we get the value of Asik and Lin over the next two years (some question that value--I think it is fairly good), but then we are able to sign a player (like Love or Aldridge--neither of which are signing extensions even if they get traded during this span) without surrendering assets.  There will be plenty of options for back-up center available if we need one.  PG will also not be an issue.

             

            I get that from a bartering standpoint one is always looking to upgrade, but at some point you are going to want to actually use what you've upgraded to.  I think we are at that point.  It's time to run with this squad--at least for a year.  If we have a glaring weakness (which I don't think we will) it can be addressed after this season.

             

            In 2015 we will still be a legit contender and very attractive to elite players.  Signing one will not be a problem.

             

            Of course Asik has value--I think we should hang onto it.  We get two years of elite Center play and we still get the PF we desire in the end (presuming we aren't happy with the guys we have already)!


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            #30 rockets best fan

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            Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:08 PM

            @JG

            would you be willing to lose Asik and Lin for nothing if we miss our chance to trade them and they see greener pastures somewhere else? I'm not opposed to riding out most of what we have. I too believe we have enough talent to compete with anyone, but losing talent for nothing is something I think if we allow to happen will set us back


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            you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


            #31 thejohnnygold

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            Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:27 PM

            I would.  It is an interesting question for sure.  From my perspective we are simply allowing the contracts we have (mainly Parsons, Lin, and Asik) to all expire simultaneously.  At this point, the Rockets will have an excellent idea of what these players' values truly are and will know if we can succeed with them or need to seek external help.  We can prioritize who to re-sign and pay them accordingly.  Should they choose to walk I don't think it hurts that much.  In the process, we have retained all of our other player assets plus our draft picks while fielding one of the best teams in the league.  We will have the cap space to bring in replacements and probably another star.  Personally, I see more advantage in this line of action.  We are limiting our risk while maximizing our return as I believe we still wind up with Love/Aldridge if we still want them.  (I think we will be glad to have passed on Aldridge and Love still needs to prove he isn't as brittle as his first few seasons have shown).  There is no guarantee they walk...I think Asik will, but there is a good chance Lin stays in my opinion.

             

            The alternative is to surrender two quality players in Lin/Asik plus D-Mo or T-Jones (sorry, but no way G. Smith is the PF replacement they take) plus at least 1 draft pick (which is being undervalued given Morey's ability to maximize these assets) for an all-star PF who will be marginalized on a team with two stars ahead of them on the food chain.  In the meantime, we have diminished our depth, weakened the PG position (it's true regardless of what people think of Lin), weakened our defense, and mortgaged part of our future.

             

            While we will probably enjoy the assurance of having insurance should one of Howard/Harden go down I believe our team, as a whole, will be less than it was before.

             

            Plus, and this is more personal, there has got to be some players we actually drafted, and developed, on this team---otherwise it really starts to feel like a squad of mercenaries and suddenly we're the New York Yankees :(

             

            I believe we can have our cake and eat it too.  Houston has become a destination and we don't have to over-pay anyone for talent right now.  As much as I like Aldridge, I just don't think I'd give up very much to acquire him right now given our current situation.


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            #32 Buckko

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              Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:32 PM

              I know we've done this before so I will try to be brief in restating my opinion on this.

               

              I would rather stand pat and utilize the talent we have to compete for a championship (which I think we have enough talent for) over the next two years.  I think that any trade for a PF (which is what most people seem to be angling for) would not net us as significant a gain as most think once you account for the costs.

               

              Instead, I view the ample cap space we will have in 2015 as the best asset to use.  In doing this, not only do we get the value of Asik and Lin over the next two years (some question that value--I think it is fairly good), but then we are able to sign a player (like Love or Aldridge--neither of which are signing extensions even if they get traded during this span) without surrendering assets.  There will be plenty of options for back-up center available if we need one.  PG will also not be an issue.

               

              I get that from a bartering standpoint one is always looking to upgrade, but at some point you are going to want to actually use what you've upgraded to.  I think we are at that point.  It's time to run with this squad--at least for a year.  If we have a glaring weakness (which I don't think we will) it can be addressed after this season.

               

              In 2015 we will still be a legit contender and very attractive to elite players.  Signing one will not be a problem.

               

              Of course Asik has value--I think we should hang onto it.  We get two years of elite Center play and we still get the PF we desire in the end (presuming we aren't happy with the guys we have already)!

              Agreed.


              Edited by Buckko, 30 July 2013 - 06:34 PM.

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              #33 Buckko

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                Posted 30 July 2013 - 06:34 PM

                I would.  It is an interesting question for sure.  From my perspective we are simply allowing the contracts we have (mainly Parsons, Lin, and Asik) to all expire simultaneously.  At this point, the Rockets will have an excellent idea of what these players' values truly are and will know if we can succeed with them or need to seek external help.  We can prioritize who to re-sign and pay them accordingly.  Should they choose to walk I don't think it hurts that much.  In the process, we have retained all of our other player assets plus our draft picks while fielding one of the best teams in the league.  We will have the cap space to bring in replacements and probably another star.  Personally, I see more advantage in this line of action.  We are limiting our risk while maximizing our return as I believe we still wind up with Love/Aldridge if we still want them.  (I think we will be glad to have passed on Aldridge and Love still needs to prove he isn't as brittle as his first few seasons have shown).  There is no guarantee they walk...I think Asik will, but there is a good chance Lin stays in my opinion.

                 

                The alternative is to surrender two quality players in Lin/Asik plus D-Mo or T-Jones (sorry, but no way G. Smith is the PF replacement they take) plus at least 1 draft pick (which is being undervalued given Morey's ability to maximize these assets) for an all-star PF who will be marginalized on a team with two stars ahead of them on the food chain.  In the meantime, we have diminished our depth, weakened the PG position (it's true regardless of what people think of Lin), weakened our defense, and mortgaged part of our future.

                 

                While we will probably enjoy the assurance of having insurance should one of Howard/Harden go down I believe our team, as a whole, will be less than it was before.

                 

                Plus, and this is more personal, there has got to be some players we actually drafted, and developed, on this team---otherwise it really starts to feel like a squad of mercenaries and suddenly we're the New York Yankees :(

                 

                I believe we can have our cake and eat it too.  Houston has become a destination and we don't have to over-pay anyone for talent right now.  As much as I like Aldridge, I just don't think I'd give up very much to acquire him right now given our current situation.

                That was the absolute best way to say it.


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                #34 rockets best fan

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                Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:18 PM

                @JG totally disagree.......totally :lol: I'm not going to bash Lin.....you already know how I feel about him. however Asik is a player (IMO) we can't lose for nothing when there is a chance to help the team with such a valuable asset. even you yourself admit he will probably walk if we allow his contract to fall off the books. you don't build teams through letting valued asset walk for nothing. I love the big men we have on this team right now. there is a lot of flexibility amongst them. (IMO) if we can add to that mix with Asik as trade bait we should. I like LMA, but any number of players could help us upgrade.

                now for the sticky part........the MONEY. the rockets have 40 million dollars committed to 2 players in the next 2 years in Asik and Lin. will their contributions be worth 40 mil over that span............I don't think so. it's hard to justify a backup center making 20 mil even if Asik is a top center. now Lin.....ok ok I promise not to bash him, but 20 million for his play? unjustifiable. he isn't even the best PG on the team.....I know ...I know it's a matter of opinion, but 13ppg 6apg at 20 mil? I know what their cap hits are, but do you think Les isn't going to have to cut a check just because it's not showing on the cap? of course not.....that money will have to be paid.

                in conclusion the only solution is to move those 2 players for other assets that will improve the team. you say we weaken our depth....I disagree....we have 4 PG's and 4 centers....we can afford to lose them provided we are getting  other assets to replace the lost. to lose them for nothing is a step backward. I also disagree that Portland won't accept G-Smith, but that's strictly a matter of opinion so no need to argue that point. however I love our youngsters, but we can't get so caught up in their development that we forsake the more important agenda of improving the team. I also disagree that LMA will be a diminished player here.....sure he may not score his usual 21 ppg, but something close to it is not out of the question. and (IMO) he is the perfect long range shooting big man to pair with Howard to maximize both players talents


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                you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


                #35 Buckko

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                  Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:23 PM

                  @JG totally disagree.......totally :lol: I'm not going to bash Lin.....you already know how I feel about him. however Asik is a player (IMO) we can't lose for nothing when there is a chance to help the team with such a valuable asset. even you yourself admit he will probably walk if we allow his contract to fall off the books. you don't build teams through letting valued asset walk for nothing. I love the big men we have on this team right now. there is a lot of flexibility amongst them. (IMO) if we can add to that mix with Asik as trade bait we should. I like LMA, but any number of players could help us upgrade.
                  now for the sticky part........the MONEY. the rockets have 40 million dollars committed to 2 players in the next 2 years in Asik and Lin. will their contributions be worth 40 mil over that span............I don't think so. it's hard to justify a backup center making 20 mil even if Asik is a top center. now Lin.....ok ok I promise not to bash him, but 20 million for his play? unjustifiable. he isn't even the best PG on the team.....I know ...I know it's a matter of opinion, but 13ppg 6apg at 20 mil? I know what their cap hits are, but do you think Les isn't going to have to cut a check just because it's not showing on the cap? of course not.....that money will have to be paid.
                  in conclusion the only solution is to move those 2 players for other assets that will improve the team. you say we weaken our depth....I disagree....we have 4 PG's and 4 centers....we can afford to lose them provided we are getting other assets to replace the lost. to lose them for nothing is a step backward. I also disagree that Portland won't accept G-Smith, but that's strictly a matter of opinion so no need to argue that point. however I love our youngsters, but we can't get so caught up in their development that we forsake the more important agenda of improving the team. I also disagree that LMA will be a diminished player here.....sure he may not score his usual 21 ppg, but something close to it is not out of the question. and (IMO) he is the perfect long range shooting big man to pair with Howard to maximize both players talents

                  You honestly have idea how this season will turn out. You can't be into in that trade now mentality or you will screw yourself. Let them play a season with this unit.
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                  #36 Buckko

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                    Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:24 PM

                    Also it's 16.6 million for both of them, 20 is a bit of An exaggeration.
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                    #37 timetodienow1234567

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                    Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:31 PM

                    Also it's 5 mil a piece this season by salary. I think they're both worth that much. We will see if they can improve to being worth 15 mil apiece by next year.
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                    Why so Serious? :D


                    #38 rockets best fan

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                    Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:32 PM

                    Also it's 16.6 million for both of them, 20 is a bit of An exaggeration.

                    did you read my post? I already said that within the pervious post.

                     

                     

                    You honestly have idea how this season will turn out. You can't be into in that trade now mentality or you will screw yourself. Let them play a season with this unit.

                    what? :lol:  I know you probably were in such a rush to respond.......but slow down :lol: fact is we are just discussing the possibilities. it doesn't matter how you or I feel.....these are just our opinions and they have NO bearing on what the Rockets will really do. I'm just trying to look at the whole team from an objective standpoint. perhaps if you allow your emotions to step aside for a moment you might see where I coming from


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                    you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


                    #39 thejohnnygold

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                    Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:32 PM

                    Alright, leaving Lin out of this--you're not wrong about Asik, RBF.  The difference is I value his contribution to our ability to win championships over the next two seasons quite highly.  Thus, saying I am letting him "walk for nothing" is not true.  I used his services for two years.  That has plenty of value to me.  Part of all this is my belief that Jones and Motie are going to give us more than enough at the PF position to not need an upgrade there at this time.

                     

                    The money and contracts are of no concern to me.  I don't think Les would have green-lighted them if they were a concern to him either.  If we are winning and making deep play-off runs then that money will be a non-issue. (I know you'll disagree on that :lol: )

                     

                    I'm not against any trade involving Asik, but I am against over paying for Aldridge.

                     

                    As has been noted by others, I also believe in the value of our depth and the strength that depth will give to our second unit.  Last season, we pointed the finger at our second unit for losing leads and games.  This season, we will be able to put that unit on the floor and feel confident.  Defensively, with guys like Asik, Beverly, and Garcia we'll have strong defense at 3 crucial positions.  Add D-mo in the post and maybe keep one of Parsons/Harden on the floor and that's practically the same team that put OKC on its butt for a couple of games in the playoffs.  (I know Delfino was part of that, but his 3 fg/game wasn't exactly turning the tides and he shot over 40% in but one game--granted, he was hurt).

                     

                    Point being, if we're going to put so much weight into how much that second unit hurt us then it only makes sense to value it equally in how much it can help us.


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                    #40 Buckko

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                      Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:36 PM

                      did you read my post? I already said that within the pervious post.


                      what? :lol: I know you probably were in such a rush to respond.......but slow down :lol: fact is we are just discussing the possibilities. it doesn't matter how you or I feel.....these are just our opinions and they have NO bearing on what the Rockets will really do. I'm just trying to look at the whole team from an objective standpoint. perhaps if you allow your emotions to step aside for a moment you might see where I coming from

                      Being emotional? What?
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