276 replies to this topic

[thejohnnygold]

I would rate his playoff performance as mediocre at best, but I would add THAT HE WAS INJURED.

Mediocre?  I think even Jeremy would disagree with this as it implies his performance was about average for him--which it clearly was not.  For the record, you're preaching to the choir--I agree that he was injured and expecting him to execute good shooting performances with a bum shooting shoulder is silly.  That was never the point in question though.  It was his composure on the court--and I happen to agree that he never really showed the level of composure we needed from him.  Again, he did not get as much playing time because he was hurt--but it does not make it less true.

 

RBF--your expectations are just too high.  You're implying that Lin must be elite to earn his $8.3M...yet elite PG's earn more than that.  There is a discrepancy here.  Further, as for not seeing any signs of his improvement from hard work (and improved health) you must have missed my post earlier (#29 above) where I detailed the improvements he made in consistently shooting the ball well.  You can discount it if you want, but you can't deny its existence.

[rockets best fan]

@JG

I'm not denying anything about Lin. his play stands on it's own to be judged. I simply don't see the player that most of you  do. we can agree about certain aspects of his game and disagree on others, but the fact remains the way we view him is different. Lin won't be the downfall of the rockets nor will he be the savior. he is one player on a TEAM. whether we move him or not it's possible to win with him or without him on the roster with Howard here..... that's not the question. the question in my mind is, can the money he  uses under the cap be better spent. the answer to that is YES. 8.3 mil isn't all that much to pay for a guard, but to much to pay for what Lin bring to the table. it's that simply to me. I don't dislike him. I just don't think he is a good player. whether that be due to the system he plays in, the injuries he's had, the ups and downs of a young player or he simply lacks the skill set we can debate all day, but think about this ..........there would be no debate if he exceeded expectation like asik did would there?

Edited by rockets best fan, 26 June 2013 - 08:06 PM.

[Rahat Huq]

JG - I think the fact that he was able to produce so much (15 and 7) despite so many flaws is what's most encouraging.  I go into that in Part 2.  Mainly why I wish McHale would just give him a chance.  He has clear limitations, but I think if he just could have the ball in his hands, we could see what we really have.  Otherwise, it's just a waste.  

 

Alituro - I hope he's doing all of those drills.  A great one is dribbling it with one hand while tossing up a tennis ball in the other hand and catching it either underhanded or circling around it with your hand before catching it.  This trains the point guard to keep his head up but more importantly, maintain his dribble under duress while concentrating on another task (i.e. a defender.)  This is the main thing Jeremy needs to work on, other than his shooting.

[calvino]

thejohnnygold -- I think it's incredible that you would penalize a guy who had a serious injury that limited his mobility for not showing the level of composure you expected form him. Again, his injury was bad enough where he couldn't raise his arms above his head -- how confidently did you expect him to play? I give him credit for showing the fortitude to try to help his team.. if he didn't give it a shot, I'm pretty sure you would rip him apart for not showing the appropriate level of confidence and composure.

[thejohnnygold]

JG - I think the fact that he was able to produce so much (15 and 7) despite so many flaws is what's most encouraging.  I go into that in Part 2.  Mainly why I wish McHale would just give him a chance.  He has clear limitations, but I think if he just could have the ball in his hands, we could see what we really have.  Otherwise, it's just a waste.  

 

Alituro - I hope he's doing all of those drills.  A great one is dribbling it with one hand while tossing up a tennis ball in the other hand and catching it either underhanded or circling around it with your hand before catching it.  This trains the point guard to keep his head up but more importantly, maintain his dribble under duress while concentrating on another task (i.e. a defender.)  This is the main thing Jeremy needs to work on, other than his shooting.

 

Yes!  I totally agree!  Watching those two videos I posted above--I see every single criticism against him--they are undeniable--and he is still able to succeed!  I am very optimistic about next season for him.

 

RBF--regarding the $8.3M that Lin eats up....I don't know--we just see this one veeeeeeeery differently .  I do agree that he isn't a make or break player for the Rockets.  I'm confident he will be here for the next 1.5-2 years so we'll have a good idea by then which direction his career is headed.

 

Calvino--you got me all wrong.  I've devoted thousands of words in Lin's favor on these forums.  In this case, my stance has more to do with the validity of Rahat's critique of Lin.  I watched that series and Jeremy Lin, for the most part, looked overwhelmed by the increased speed and pressure of the game.  I already acknowledged that I believe he suffered from both the injury and limited playing time which did nothing to help this.  That doesn't change the fact that it happened--Rahat focused more on his lack of preparation during the regular season due to McHale's handling of Lin's minutes and role.  Your assumptions about me in your post above are unfounded.  I already said, if he couldn't go then he shouldn't have been in the game.  You seem to have glossed over this point and instead claim that "if he didn't give it a shot, I'm pretty sure you would rip him apart for not showing the appropriate level of confidence and composure".  I don't know what else to say.  I'm actually on your side of the fence if you read carefully--I am just here to say that I think Rahat's evaluation is valid as he was getting ripped by more than one reader for the article he posted.  I wouldn't call myself a Lin-Lover (although I bet some around here would ), but I like him and think he is going to succeed in this league--hopefully with the Rockets!

[Steven]

I hope we hear Czar Stern say this tomorrow. "And we have a trade. Jeremy Lin is going to .... For the rights to (name your second round pick here.)

[Hockey the Harden Way]

Hockey the Harden Way-- you do realize that Lin shot .375% from 3 after the all-star break, right? That is actually a much higher percentage than league average. I think thejohnnygold is on to something in discussing Lin's polarizing effect. When you have a player that can have great games and bad games (with very little in between), proponents on both sides will remember those instances in which he either did well or did poorly, depending on your inclination. I prefer to remember Lin's post all-star performance, when he looked healthier and seemed to have more confidence as the season progressed.

I realize that....  But during the last month, Lin's defensive play, which I believe had the most impact amongst his contributions to winning games, had faded drastically.  His steals were way down, his rebounding was way down, and Pat Beverley during the last month was the better defender.  I think the "normal" Lin defensively is better than Beverley.  (I suspect he might have been hiding a nagging injury.  But if he did, he seems unable to play through it, in contrast to Harden or Parsons.)

 

Lin did improve his offensive play later in the season, but it was at the expense of his defensive play.

 

In the last Suns game in Phoenix, Goran Dragic absolutely torched him...  I was not used to seeing Lin getting torched like that, by ANY player....  I was so disappointed, because we lost to a doormat team, TWICE, late this past season....  Losses that may have cost this club a higher seed for the postseason.

 

I happen to be a huge Lin fan, but I'm also a realist.  We need a point guard who is comfortable with the "layups and threes" system we utilize.  And I'm afraid Lin is not a good fit for this particular system.  If Lin ends up being our starter next season, and proves me wrong, I'll be ecstatic to be wrong.  But as of now, I'm not optimistic.

[pharmag]

RBF--regarding the $8.3M that Lin eats up....I don't know--we just see this one veeeeeeeery differently .  I do agree that he isn't a make or break player for the Rockets.  I'm confident he will be here for the next 1.5-2 years so we'll have a good idea by then which direction his career is headed.

 

I think this is correct (baring a CP3 acquiring).  I still think he has strong potential as a sixth man in the sense that Manu Ginobili and James Harden are/were sixth men.  His contract may be a little big, but look at what the Spurs have done with their trio of Parker, Ginobili, & Duncan.  If we get Howard, I can see that type of potential. Also, in two years you can decide what to do with him based on what he has become.

 

With JLin, if he continues to improve his 3 point shooting, is a guard with a skillset that lets him complement both Harden and Bev.  He is not great PG or SG but can play a little of both.  When on the floor with Harden, he can spot up, can drive and dish on occassion and can play defense on the better guard.  When on the floor with Bev, he can take on more of Harden's role as the main ball handler playing pick-&-roll basketball with the bigs. Minutes can all be based on match-ups/play and you can have your guards average around 32 minutes a piece.  

 

As has been said JLin has a been a polarizing player, but for all the people worried about TRob coming back to bite us in the ass, I would be more concerned of JLin doing it.  He has shown potential, has been successful at times, and has the work ethic and attitude to only get better.  As of right now, you can't really say any of that about TRob (not sure on his work ethic/attitude though)

[rockets best fan]

I hope we hear Czar Stern say this tomorrow. "And we have a trade. Jeremy Lin is going to .... For the rights to (name your second round pick here.)

that would be good news

[autoprt]

this is a very astute assessment of jlin and i really enjoyed reading it as it was spot on.  the thing i have always believed is jlin for now did very well and would do well on a team that there are not many expectations with an opportunity to be a primary scorer or come off the bench and run the 2nd team.  a good example is a team like orlando or a lower tier team that offers a very good 3 point shooter he could work with. 

 

the thing is the rockets tried to compensate for an earlier error in letting jlin go to the knicks and did in my opinion overpay him in terms of salary cap but they are making up the difference in marketing dollars especially from their connections in asia. 

 

jlin was never a pg but was made to learn to be one on the fly based on situation and is a quick study.  he had at one point a good outside shot and then last summer added weight to his upper body which i believe effected his outside shot. over time he is improving this and if he can become more efficient in outside shot in particular 3 pt it will open up other parts of his game. 

 

in the right situation he has something extra that does not always show in the stats.  i say give him a little more time and he will be fine whether it's with the rox or not. 

[Alituro]

I think this is correct (baring a CP3 acquiring).  I still think he has strong potential as a sixth man in the sense that Manu Ginobili and James Harden are/were sixth men.  His contract may be a little big, but look at what the Spurs have done with their trio of Parker, Ginobili, & Duncan.  If we get Howard, I can see that type of potential. Also, in two years you can decide what to do with him based on what he has become.

 

With JLin, if he continues to improve his 3 point shooting, is a guard with a skillset that lets him complement both Harden and Bev.  He is not great PG or SG but can play a little of both.  When on the floor with Harden, he can spot up, can drive and dish on occassion and can play defense on the better guard.  When on the floor with Bev, he can take on more of Harden's role as the main ball handler playing pick-&-roll basketball with the bigs. Minutes can all be based on match-ups/play and you can have your guards average around 32 minutes a piece.  

 

As has been said JLin has a been a polarizing player, but for all the people worried about TRob coming back to bite us in the ass, I would be more concerned of JLin doing it.  He has shown potential, has been successful at times, and has the work ethic and attitude to only get better.  As of right now, you can't really say any of that about TRob (not sure on his work ethic/attitude though)

This pretty much sums up my feelings too. 6th man or primary scorer in the 2nd unit, IMO is the best fit for him, and totally worth the money. For you stats collectors out there, here's a challenge, what are the +/- of our second unit lineups, compared to the starter heavy lineups, what kind of impact would Lin have made on the bench lineups if his numbers are inserted into the formula (Asik too)? If I remember correctly, last season, we suffered our biggest negative point discrepancies during the time spans of Late-1st/early-2nd and late-3rd/early-4th quarters. Suffered to the point of completely negating the positive production from the starters. What that means is that unless the second unit is blessed with a 20+ point cushion, absolutely EVERY team we face has a chance to catch up, and ultimately build their momentum and give them a chance to win EVERY game. If Lin and possibly Asik(?) are anchoring the second unit surrounded by sophomores with high upsides and a summer under their belt, maybe James Andersen too, I think we would be able to weather the storm of bench time much better than past season, maybe even able to add positive production against the majority of benches in the league, and IMO justifies the money paid to the key players in the 2nd unit, especially because they will be able to be utilized at other points in the game as well (Lin, Asik). Let's face it, even if we build our super best friends starting unit around Parsons, Harden, and Howard, if we field a high school unit when they are on the bench, we won't be any better off than last season.

[Hockey the Harden Way]

Twitter rumor.......  Rockets want to dump Lin's salary..............

 

https://twitter.com/...394420044103680

[manmythlegend]

Twitter rumor....... Rockets want to dump Lin's salary..............

https://twitter.com/...394420044103680

Interesting if it's true. May be a win-win if it happens. Never heard of the source of the tweet though...

[Rahat Huq]

^That's the writer of shamsports.com, the authoritative source on salary cap projections etc.  

[thenit]

I can't see any takers this season because Utah was the only team I could envision Lin go to because they needed a pg but now they got burke.

However who knows how legit this dude who posted the tweet. It will easier to dump lins contract next year because its an expiring.

[thenit]

Rahat so how serious can you take that tweet?

[manmythlegend]

^That's the writer of shamsports.com, the authoritative source on salary cap projections etc.

Okay. But does this writer have a history of accurately breaking player news? Not sure if being the authoritative source for salary cap projections means anything other than being the authoritative source for salary cap projections.

[Rahat Huq]

^Yeah, I hear you.  Not sure if he has any inside connections....but was just pointing out it wasn't just some random dude.  

[Hockey the Harden Way]

Interesting if it's true. May be a win-win if it happens. Never heard of the source of the tweet though...

There's a frenzy on CF over these Tweets.....  FWIW.................

[pharmag]

Twitter rumor.......  Rockets want to dump Lin's salary..............

 

https://twitter.com/...394420044103680

 

Intriguing thought...I came up with this interesting trade scenario http://espn.go.com/n...tradeId=ntw4aht

 

I know it seems a little odd, but bear with me.  I think its relatively obvious why this deal is good for Rockets, so lets start with Denver.

 

Denver is shaking up their roster a little bit.  Iguodala has opted out, they traded Koufas for Darrell Arthur, etc.  Denver has shown they are a team that likes to push the tempo, but their back up PG is 37.  JLin pushes the tempo as well and I think would be a good pairing with the guard combo of Lawson and Chandler.  Robinson is a top #5 draft pick who hasn't had a chance.  The resulting line-up would look like this for Denver

 

PG  Lawson/Lin

SG Chandler/Lin/Fournier

SF  Gallinari/Faried/Q. Miller

PF  Randolph/Arthur/Robinson

C    McGee/Randolph/Gobert

 

That is 11 players and they are right around the salary cap (have two RFAs that they could resign to get to 12).

 

As for the Rockets, this trade lets them shed 5.5 million in cap opening up room for Howard signing.  Sure the Rockets like to run to and Andre Miller doesn't exactly fit our system any better, but his money is only guaranteed for the upcoming season and we are going to want a PG in return in any trade.  The result is 6.5 million coming off the books after 2013-2014 season (Miller and Royce) which can be used for whatever necessary.  Also, Jordan Hamilton fills our need for a back-up small forward.  With this we can trot out a squad as follows:

 

PG Bev/Miller

SG Harden/Anderson

SF  Parsons/Hamilton

PF  Jones/DMO/Smith

C    Howard/Asik/Ohlbrecht

 

Not the most ideal trade, but if we decide to move Asik at trade deadline to free up more cap space, we could have 14.5 million to play with in 2014 FA.  I spent a long time looking for option, and Utah is what I thought of first and it could still be a possibility, but with Burks & Burke (confusion anyone?) at PG who knows...

 

Anyway, thoughts?  Remember it is all hypothetical.

Edited by pharmag, 28 June 2013 - 04:20 AM.