156 replies to this topic

[manmythlegend]

There would be an adjustment period of at least a season if you were to add both Paul and Howard. Everyone would have to figure out there roles, who gets to take over, who handles the ball and makes the decisions at the end of the games, etc.

Eventually the Big 3 would become the Big 2 + a highly paid complementary player. We've seen this developing in Miami in the last three seasons, where Lebron has overtaken Wade as the top option, Wade is the clear #2 superstar, & Bosh has been relegated to a distant 3rd banana. Bosh's struggles have already generated talk of him being traded after this season.

This begs the question: Do you need a Big 3, or is a Big 2 with a solid supporting cast enough? There is only so much ball to go around on offense, & one of the three's production inevitably suffers (Bosh's #'s have declined every season since he's been in Miami & was a solid 17p/7r this season). Miami could get that kind of production for half of what they are paying Bosh. OKC tolerated losing Harden this season by increasing usage of the remaining Big 2 & getting solid play from the second tier stars.


If Howard comes to Houston, Harden and Howard would make a formidable 1-2 punch, and Parsons would settle into a great 3rd option, a role he would be comfortable with and could thrive in. You'd also would have enough money leftover to maintain a solid supporting cast, as opposed to relying on signing aging stars willing to take a steep pay cut (but they'll save in state income tax!!) for the higher chance of getting the ring.

[Mason Khamvilay]

I think part of why Miami's big 3 became the big 2 is because all 3 guys are offensive players, and they need the ball in their hands in order to dominate. We wouldn't have that problem with Dwight.

[rocketrick]

There would be an adjustment period of at least a season if you were to add both Paul and Howard. Everyone would have to figure out there roles, who gets to take over, who handles the ball and makes the decisions at the end of the games, etc.

Eventually the Big 3 would become the Big 2 + a highly paid complementary player. We've seen this developing in Miami in the last three seasons, where Lebron has overtaken Wade as the top option, Wade is the clear #2 superstar, & Bosh has been relegated to a distant 3rd banana. Bosh's struggles have already generated talk of him being traded after this season.

This begs the question: Do you need a Big 3, or is a Big 2 with a solid supporting cast enough? There is only so much ball to go around on offense, & one of the three's production inevitably suffers (Bosh's #'s have declined every season since he's been in Miami & was a solid 17p/7r this season). Miami could get that kind of production for half of what they are paying Bosh. OKC tolerated losing Harden this season by increasing usage of the remaining Big 2 & getting solid play from the second tier stars.


If Howard comes to Houston, Harden and Howard would make a formidable 1-2 punch, and Parsons would settle into a great 3rd option, a role he would be comfortable with and could thrive in. You'd also would have enough money leftover to maintain a solid supporting cast, as opposed to relying on signing aging stars willing to take a steep pay cut (but they'll save in state income tax!!) for the higher chance of getting the ring.

 

Don't forget, Chandler Parsons will have to be paid, big bucks, most likely before the start of the 2014-15 season to prevent him from becoming an unrestricted free agent. This will definitely put Houston in the luxury tax, in my opinion, which is fine for a couple of seasons. But then things get really, really expensive after that assuming they don't dip back down in their salary cap by making other moves.

[manmythlegend]

I think part of why Miami's big 3 became the big 2 is because all 3 guys are offensive players, and they need the ball in their hands in order to dominate. We wouldn't have that problem with Dwight.

 

Although he wouldn't be bringing the ball up the court, Howard would still demand his share touches and shots in the post (we haven't forgotten all of the barking he did to the media when he wasn't getting his shots and points last season on the Lakers, have we?). And I would definitely categorize Howard as an offensive player given his career 18 ppg average.

 

One of the points I was trying to make is that it's easy for the 3rd guy in a Big 3 to be forgotten. At some point one of them has to take a back seat and supporting role. With Paul, Howard and Harden all in the primes of their careers (and each looking to bank one more max contract after ), it's hard for me to envision one of them willingly doing that at this point.

 

 

Don't forget, Chandler Parsons will have to be paid, big bucks, most likely before the start of the 2014-15 season to prevent him from becoming an unrestricted free agent. This will definitely put Houston in the luxury tax, in my opinion, which is fine for a couple of seasons. But then things get really, really expensive after that assuming they don't dip back down in their salary cap by making other moves.

 

Duly noted. But he won't be anywhere near CP3 bucks(he'll probably command half of CP3's salary if he enters into RFA), so the luxury tax hit wouldn't be as bad as having three guys making $17-20 million plus.

 

As others have mentioned already (and as I've all along stated since the possibility was raised on other threads), a Paul-Harden backcourt is not an ideal match.  It might take several games, or it may take a couple seasons, for the right chemistry to be established between those two. Maybe when Paul is in the twilight of his career and he is ready to just be a facilitator instead of a lead dog (like Jason Kidd was in his 2nd Dallas run) it would be a better pairing with Harden.

 

To me, this whole "Let's get BOTH Paul AND Howard to come to Houston!" scenario reeks of "Let's do something just because we can!", and has no regard as to whether or not the pieces, skill sets and personalities all fit.

Edited by manmythlegend, 14 June 2013 - 02:06 PM.

[Freebird]

See, I don't think Paul and Harden together is a mismatch as alluded to above, for 2 reasons:

 

1.  Harden's last year in OKC, he and Westbrook played well together all the time in the 4th quarter.  He is at his best off the ball.

 

2.  Harden's PG skills were necessary last year because:

          a) Lin was not up to snuff

          He was trying a bit too hard to be The Man

          c) Late game, he was our only focus (debatable, I know)

 

With Paul, we have a decided leader for the offense, and Harden can focus on scoring and D, rather than directing an offense (or rather, taking all the offensive responsibilities onto himself).  I have no worries if we end up with CP3.

 

I have the same worries about D12 that we all have - his personality, and his seemingly declining skillset.  He is still one of the best bigs around, and I'll root for him if he comes here, but I worry about what he will become - especially if his skills continue to deteriorate, and we are looking to off-load his contract in 3 years.  It really hasn't been our philosophy to let talent evaporate, when we can trade for some supposed value later.

[Alituro]

I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion, also that Harden and Paul couldn't share the court together. Much like Freebird said, I think Harden is at his best when working off the ball, his efficiency severely dropped off after taking more and more of the facilitator load. Paul is also at his best when he has competent players working off the ball, rather than needing to be the #1 scoring option. A Harden/Paul backcourt could possibly be the most lethal guard combo in the league, ever. And to add Howard to the mix, a center capable of actually catching the lobs, coupled with athletic dynamos, Parsons and Jones. This team would be instantly dominant and if Morey could make it happen, it'd be genius. And as Parsons becomes the fourth scoring option and his number slip a bit, he once again becomes affordable for the future, and would make himself affordable to just keep winning titles. Win Win Win Win.

[tombrokeoff]

great topic. great conversation. all of the speculation is fun, but i am just going to sit back and wait to see how it all plays out.  and whatever does happen, ill hope for the best chemistry and health.  as rockets fans, this is an exciting time.  lets hope it continues to get better.

[manmythlegend]

Isn't the whole Paul-Harden-Howard triumvirate more than just a little similar to the Nash-Kobe-Howard triumvirate?  

 

I'm not necessarily saying it can't work, but concessions will have to be made by everyone (as tends to happens when stars join forces for the overall good of the team), and not to mention that there will be little cash left to supplement the remaining starters and bench.  

 

Part of why Durant-Westbrook-Harden worked is because they were all drafted by OKC and had years of practice and games to get their chemistry on point.  That's more of an ideal scenario when you've assembled that caliber of talent, as opposed to assembling an All-Star team via free agency or trade.

 

At the end of the day I suppose the Rockets should try to acquire both Paul and Howard, because it's better to know if it did or didn't work as opposed to asking "What if?".

Edited by manmythlegend, 14 June 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[Cooper]

Isn't the whole Paul-Harden-Howard triumvirate more than just a little similar to the Nash-Kobe-Howard triumvirate?

I'm not necessarily saying it can't work, but concessions will have to be made by everyone (as tends to happens when stars join forces for the overall good of the team), and not to mention that there will be little cash left to supplement the remaining starters and bench.

Part of why Durant-Westbrook-Harden worked is because they were all drafted by OKC and had years of practice and games to get their chemistry on point. That's more of an ideal scenario when you've assembled that caliber of talent, as opposed to assembling an All-Star team via free agency or trade.

At the end of the day I suppose the Rockets should try to acquire both Paul and Howard,
because it's better to know if it did or didn't work as opposed to asking "What if?".

Well Nash and Kobe are about a combined thousand years old basketball wise. And Westbrook and harden only had a 2yrs in okc.

[Rockets fan newton]

1.loved the article even the Lin part,which was fair
2.harden can shot a whole lot better then wade can so be more then capable to play off the ball and be a slasher/pull up guy..he only took over the dribbling in OKC when Westbrook was out the game. Which he can do when Paul is out the game now
3.this would be the most ideal big three cause they can all def and score at the same time..bosh just hits open shots..I kno without doubt we would win easily without issue just from the fact that harden has succeed playing with superstars
4.i slightly agree with the Paul isn't perfect and getting Milsap idea..however I believe that Tjones can put up the same numbers as Milsap could so y pay him the money and not atleast see what Tjones can do with stars
5.i believe the major point is to get Howard to commit first..then worry about he other person after..we have til the 10th to figure out who else comes..we need to have him commuted by the 3rd then have him and harden go get another player..I believe that LBJ went to Miami cause wade and bosh signed there first..the same would happen with Paul..he would want to come here after Dwight has commited.

[manmythlegend]

Well Nash and Kobe are about a combined thousand years old basketball wise. And Westbrook and harden only had a 2yrs in okc.

 

I stand corrected. Kobe at his advanced age only averaged 27/6/6 on a 23.1 PER (compared to Harden's 26/6/5 on a 23 PER) while Nash dragged his bad back and leg to a meager 50/40/90 shooting season.

 

Westbrook, Durant and Harden had 3 full seasons together in OKC.

[Cooper]

Being old doesn't make you bad they were just hurt a lot. And nash didnt play big minuetes when he wasnt hurt. The entire lakers roster had huge injury problems.

Edited by Cooper, 14 June 2013 - 03:39 PM.

[manmythlegend]

Being old doesn't make you bad they were just hurt a lot. And nash didnt play big minuetes when he wasnt hurt. The entire lakers roster had huge injury problems.

 

Nash played 32.5 mpg and 50 regular season games; Paul played 33.4 mpg and 70 regular season games.  If Nash didn't have that freak fibular fracture and nerve injury at the beginning of the season, they would have both played a similar number of games.

 

Kobe played every regular season game until his Achilles tendon exploded in game 78.

 

I'm not debating the injury issues the Lakers had. But injuries are a part of the game, and Paul certainly has his chronic knee issues that he will bring to whatever team he signs with, as will Howard.

 

Back to my original point, the similarities between Nash-Kobe-Howard and potentially Paul-Harden-Howard can't be ignored, age notwithstanding.  Harden MAY defer a little more than Kobe did, but we are talking about a player that some people think would go rogue Iso-Harden at the end of games (as in "I don't care who my teammates are, this is MY team and I'M going to go win the game MY way).

Edited by manmythlegend, 14 June 2013 - 03:54 PM.

[Chichos]

If we bring this conversation back to how it could happen (personally I would have named this thread "Foundations of a Pipe Dream")

 

I think the Lakers remain the most viable target as they could actually use the players we would need to get rid of.  Lin and Asik would could both start for the Lakers next season, I am assuming that Nash will be injured and or DAntoni will play small ball to try to save his job.  TRob would be the middle class man's Jordan Hill with that elusive promise that all top picks have.  LA could even dump a contract like Chris Duhon on us if they agreed to a sign and trade. 

 

Unforetunately I agree with Rahat in that they won't do this.  They wouldn't do it if we threw in Chandler Parsons, outside of Harden they have a very low interest in any of our players.  There is no star in this deal and they believe (They seriously seem to believe) they will get Lebron next summer.  The deals they want to make are to shed salary.  I would bet their entire strategy for keeping Howard is "Just wait and other stars will come play with you because we are the Lakers."  They don't believe they are like any other team and why wouldn't they believe it, they have 30 years of history that proves them right.

 

The wild card in all this is that Donald Sterling is crazy and not above doing crazy/stupid things.  You should really google "Donald Sterling racist" there is some good stuff in there. 

[manmythlegend]

The wild card in all this is that Donald Sterling is crazy and not above doing crazy/stupid things.  

 

Just read the latest rumors that Paul and Howard have discussed the possibility of playing together, with the two mentioned destinations being the LA Clippers and ATL.  The only way Howard can end up a Clipper with Paul is via sign-and-trade; it's highly doubtful if the Lakers would be willing to do anything to improve the lot of the Clippers, unless they get Blake Griffin and future HoFer Eric Bledsoe in return.

[rockets best fan]

it appears that cp3 and D-12 are at least talking to each other about playing together check this out

http://fansided.com/...-play-together/

I think we are the front runners for D-12, but he may bring cp3 with him

[LMAOwais]

 

http://espn.go.com/l....utostart=false
 
 

Edited by LMAOwais, 14 June 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[Mason Khamvilay]

future HoFer Eric Bledsoe 

[manmythlegend]

future HoFer Eric Bledsoe 

 

Sorry, I mis-spoke; I meant to say future All-World, Future HoFer and President of the USA Eric Bledsoe.

[rockets best fan]

Sorry, I mis-spoke; I meant to say future All-World, Future HoFer and President of the USA Eric Bledsoe.

future HoFer......Bledsoe.........now you guys know I like Bledsoe, but HoFer is a little overboard IMO