73 replies to this topic

[Mason Khamvilay]

http://www.shamsport...teams-will.html

[timetodienow1234567]

Whoever voted for Parsons should be banned from this site.

[rockets best fan]

Whoever voted for Parsons should be banned from this site.

I wouldn't advocate that, but it does make you question their basketball IQ

[Steven]

Why should I be banned? It was a joke.

The two who voted for Jones should be banned. Watch him average a double double next year.

[rockets best fan]

Why should I be banned? It was a joke.

The two who voted for Jones should be banned. Watch him average a double double next year.

glad to here it was a joke. I respect your basketball knowledge........thought you maybe fell and bumped your head or something  I also agree on t-jones. maybe someone else fell and bumped their head.

[rocketrick]

The title does fail to acknowledge that T-Rob can be kept if Asik or Lin is traded so I did make a mistake there, but I get the feeling you didn't read my OP..
 
Quote
--LINK
 
So assuming Dwight doesn't give us a small discount, trading T-Rob won't be enough. Last night I was talking with another salary cap expert and I asked him to confirm Larry Coon's calculations and he did, but I would rather not argue about whether or not the experts could be wrong.

So the topic you started should have been titled "(Hypothetical) If we have to trade someone IN ADDITION TO Thomas Robinson to get Dwight, who do we trade?"

I agree totally that it makes no sense to trade away Asik or Lin until the Rockets know the outcome of the key free agents available this summer.

So, definitely some tough choices to make for Rockets management.

I'm not sure how anyone else on the board feels, but it seems most logical to me for the Rockets to be far enough under the cap (even assuming a slightly lower or higher number than this year's cap) prior to July 1 to be best positioned to sign D12 outright without having to rely on the cooperation from any other team after July 1 to secure D12 outright for the maximum allowable under the CBA. Assuming the Rockets are deadset on signing D12. Which by all indications from various media reports it seems quite clear that indeed they are.

[Mason Khamvilay]

So the topic you started should have been titled "(Hypothetical) If we have to trade someone IN ADDITION TO Thomas Robinson to get Dwight, who do we trade?"

I agree totally that it makes no sense to trade away Asik or Lin until the Rockets know the outcome of the key free agents available this summer.

So, definitely some tough choices to make for Rockets management.

I'm not sure how anyone else on the board feels, but it seems most logical to me for the Rockets to be far enough under the cap (even assuming a slightly lower or higher number than this year's cap) prior to July 1 to be best positioned to sign D12 outright without having to rely on the cooperation from any other team after July 1 to secure D12 outright for the maximum allowable under the CBA. Assuming the Rockets are deadset on signing D12. Which by all indications from various media reports it seems quite clear that indeed they are.

Yes, that's what the title should have been.

 

Assuming a $58.5m salary cap, the calculations are in fact correct and I have confirmed it with two experts (Larry Coon and David Weiner). Rahut actually worked it out as well, but he pointed out that we can waive Royce White under the 'stretch provision' which would save us around 700,000. That still leaves us roughly $200,000 short of being able to afford Dwight IF he doesn't give us a tiny discount (which he likely would IF he wants to play here). Even with that tiny discount, he still ends up making more money in Houston because of the taxes (or lack thereof).  

[Mason Khamvilay]

Since there are so many people here who think the experts are wrong, I'm going to do the working out for everyone to see. 

 

Now before I start, it's important that everyone understands what a 'Stretch Provision' is: http://www.cbafaq.co...larycap.htm#Q63

We're going to waive and stretch Royce White's contract which will give us more cap space--lets do the working out for that first because it can be confusing. 

 

$1,719,480 divided by 3 = $573,160 + cap hold ($490,000) = $1,063,160

$1,719,480 - $1,063,160 = $656,320 <----- this is how much we save by waiving and stretching Royce White's contract. 

 

Lets begin.

 

NOTE: All cap space amounts are calculated to an estimated salary cap of $58.5 million. This inexact figure is the most recent (and thus accurate) projection released yet, and will suffice for now. When the actual amount is calculated/announced, the sums below will be altered accordingly. 

 

James Harden: $13,668,750 (at the moment; as a designated maximum salary contract, it is to be adjusted when new max salaries are known post-moratorium)
Omer Asik: $8,374,646
Jeremy Lin: $8,374,646
Thomas Robinson: $3,526,440
Royce White: $1,719,480
Terrence Jones: $1,551,840
Donatas Motiejunas: $1,422,720
Chandler Parsons: $926,500
Greg Smith: $884,293
Patrick Beverley: $788,872
Tyler Honeycutt: $100,000 (waived)
Roster charge: $490,180
Roster charge: $490,180

Total = $42,318,547 = $16,181,453 in cap room.

-Thomas Robinson = $19,707,893 

- Savings from waiving and stretching Royce White = $20,364,213

 

RBF are you satisfied? 

[rocketrick]

What is the maximum the Rockets could sign D12 to next season, isn't it something like $19.2 million? D12 would be eligible to receive a maximum of 35% of whatever the salary cap is set at for 2013-2014. I assume Harden's salary for 2013-14 would adjust up a bit if the salary cap jumps slightly?

It sure appears that simply by trading away Thomas Robinson along with the stretch proviaion for waiving Royce White may put the Rockets in good shape cap wise for a full price offer (CBA maximum) for D12.

The question then possibly becomes can the Rockets figure out another way to do so while also keeping Thomas Robinson? And more importantly, is that even a consideration? I hear that Thomas Robinson has already spent considerable time in the gym since the Rockets were ousted in the playoffs. So the Rockets management may possibly have a clearer idea of whether or not to strive to retain Thomas Robinson. Information that as far as I know is not privy to the general public.

[Mason Khamvilay]

What is the maximum the Rockets could sign D12 to next season, isn't it something like $19.2 million?

You're killing me dude. This is the second time you've made it painfully clear you didn't read the OP...

 

The maximum the Rockets can sign D12 to next season is $20.5 million.

 

You are correct about Harden's salary rising if the salary cap rises. 

 

As for keeping Thomas Robinson, I only see two ways:

1. Convince Dwight to give us a $4 million discount (unlikely)
2. Trade Asik (likely) 

Obviously many will argue that we can trade Lin, but I don't see Leslie Alexander allowing that to happen unless we're getting CP3. All decisions have to go through Leslie Alexander, and if he had to choose between the Turkish guy who sold like 20 jerseys vs the Chinese guy who generates $50 million in revenue... guess who he will pick? I know you agree with me on this.

[rocketrick]

You're killing me dude. This is the second time you've made it painfully clear you didn't read the OP...

 

The maximum the Rockets can sign D12 to next season is $20.5 million.

 

You are correct about Harden's salary rising if the salary cap rises. 

 

As for keeping Thomas Robinson, I only see two ways:

1. Convince Dwight to give us a $4 million discount (unlikely)
2. Trade Asik (likely) 

Obviously many will argue that we can trade Lin, but I don't see Leslie Alexander allowing that to happen unless we're getting CP3. All decisions have to go through Leslie Alexander, and if he had to choose between the Turkish guy who sold like 20 jerseys vs the Chinese guy who generates $50 million in revenue... guess who he will pick? I know you agree with me on this.

 

Sorry about my confusion over D12's max. If anything, I probably read TOO much and sometimes forget to take something else into consideration. I have been to Larry Coon's site as well as read and re-read his articles on ESPN Insider so I have definitely been looking into this as much as possible. The thing that stuck out to me was section 16 of Coon's CBA faq which discusses player maximum salary restrictions and I keep seeing the 35% cap maximum for a single player who has been in the NBA at least 10 years. Perhaps I am missing the other $1 million or so due to D12's current salary being higher and not taking into consideration the 105% rule. 

 

Thanks for all your input!

[Mason Khamvilay]

Well, you could always tweet Larry Coon asking him where your calculations went wrong. He doesn't always reply to Dwight questions though because he probably gets like 500 a day. David Weiner @bimathug is another good guy to ask about CBA questions and he always replies. 

[rockets best fan]

@rocketrick

you try to attack me for breaking down the numbers then you and 2016 come over to this thread and do the exact same thing. pot calling the kettle black?  STRANGE   as for you 2016 I'm glad to see you finally took my advice and did the math for yourself. never depend on others to hand deliver the facts for you when you can get them yourself. I still don't agree with you about the cap though

[Mason Khamvilay]

It's cool that I'm learning more about the CBA, but I would never choose my own calculations over a guru's. I think any layman would be wise to think like this, but that's just my opinion. 

 

"A fool who recognizes his own ignorance is thereby in fact a wise man, but a fool who considers himself wise -- that is what one really calls a fool." ~Gautama Buddha

[rockets best fan]

It's cool that I'm learning more about the CBA, but I would never choose my own calculations over a guru's. I think any layman would be wise to think like this, but that's just my opinion. 

 

"A fool who recognizes his own ignorance is thereby in fact a wise man, but a fool who considers himself wise -- that is what one really calls a fool." ~Gautama Buddha

not to sure I want to be on board with budda   but it is some good advice. you know 2016 when you read the CBA you realize how many false or uninformed reports there are out there. I have seen all kinds of stories some more far fetched than others, but all written by writers who seemingly know even less about the new CBA than the average fan. that's why I told you don't trust anyone. larry coon is a guy I do respect, but even he can make mistakes.....not saying that he did. but he can. that's why it's always better to gather the facts for yourself when possible in anything in life. why do you think so many players end up broke after earning major money playing sports............trusting others to supply them with facts. you always leave yourself open to being deceived using that method.

[rocketrick]

@rocketrick

you try to attack me for breaking down the numbers then you and 2016 come over to this thread and do the exact same thing. pot calling the kettle black?  STRANGE   as for you 2016 I'm glad to see you finally took my advice and did the math for yourself. never depend on others to hand deliver the facts for you when you can get them yourself. I still don't agree with you about the cap though

If you call disagreeing with you and pointing out some issues with your arguments "attacking" so be it.

 

Sorry I don't agree with you on certain items. Previously you called me a gorilla whatever for supposedly something else, I don't know.

 

Anyway, your supposition of your argument is primarily built around assuming a $60 million salary cap which (1) nobody will know for certain until about July 7-10 time frame and (2) isn't it better to assume a lower salary cap when making suggestions on which players to move off the roster to fit D12's salary? After all, Morey and Alexander won't have the luxury of making meaningful moves after July 1. They need to be sure the Rockets are best positioned before that date so they don't have to rely on another team to make the numbers work with a last minute trade, etc.

 

And secondly, you're going way out in left field in my opinion by claiming the Rockets can easily trade away Royce White and his contract.

 

Again, if you want to claim I'm somehow attacking you by disagreeing with your statements with what I believe most would agree are reasonable arguments, then I don't know what else to say..................

 

I thought the whole purpose of this board was to share ideas. I realize some of us are set in our ways and absolutely will not be swayed one inch no matter what. Just say we agree to disagree and move on. Why all this guerrilla stuff and attack claims? I thought you were better than that man!

[rockets best fan]

If you call disagreeing with you and pointing out some issues with your arguments "attacking" so be it.

 

Sorry I don't agree with you on certain items. Previously you called me a gorilla whatever for supposedly something else, I don't know.

 

Anyway, your supposition of your argument is primarily built around assuming a $60 million salary cap which (1) nobody will know for certain until about July 7-10 time frame and (2) isn't it better to assume a lower salary cap when making suggestions on which players to move off the roster to fit D12's salary? After all, Morey and Alexander won't have the luxury of making meaningful moves after July 1. They need to be sure the Rockets are best positioned before that date so they don't have to rely on another team to make the numbers work with a last minute trade, etc.

 

And secondly, you're going way out in left field in my opinion by claiming the Rockets can easily trade away Royce White and his contract.

 

Again, if you want to claim I'm somehow attacking you by disagreeing with your statements with what I believe most would agree are reasonable arguments, then I don't know what else to say..................

 

I thought the whole purpose of this board was to share ideas. I realize some of us are set in our ways and absolutely will not be swayed one inch no matter what. Just say we agree to disagree and move on. Why all this guerrilla stuff and attack claims? I thought you were better than that man!

go to the other thread and reread your #1 comment where you tried to make me look silly for breaking down the numbers and then come here and do the exact same thing........let me know what you think.............as for guerrilla....I didn't call you a guerrilla. I said you were using guerrilla warfare tactics. that's a clever strategy in war and debates. I was actually giving you some credit. sorry you took it the wrong way. I don't get offended because you disagree with me. you have the right to your own opinion and true that is what this forum is for ......to exchange ideas and theories. maybe we got off on the wrong foot. let's bury the hatchet and start over. 

[rocketrick]

Thanks RBF, I saw your post in another topic. We're good.

[thejohnnygold]

While the stretch provision for Royce White is a nice possibility I am surprised that nobody thinks we can move White's contract in the scenario RBF has put forth multiple times.  Attaching White's contract plus T-Rob and $2M in cash gets us just over $5.23M.  It's all we need.  Plus, the other team gets T-Rob, they waive White and buy out his $1.71M while pocketing a cool $300K in cash.  While not every team would do this--I think it's reasonable to consider.  Am I missing something that makes this not an appealing offer?

[rockets best fan]

While the stretch provision for Royce White is a nice possibility I am surprised that nobody thinks we can move White's contract in the scenario RBF has put forth multiple times.  Attaching White's contract plus T-Rob and $2M in cash gets us just over $5.23M.  It's all we need.  Plus, the other team gets T-Rob, they waive White and buy out his $1.71M while pocketing a cool $300K in cash.  While not every team would do this--I think it's reasonable to consider.  Am I missing something that makes this not an appealing offer?

it can even be better for the receiving team if they know how to play the cards right.................if they accept Royce and 2 mil they can hold the contract until right before the trade deadline then move Royce to a team needing to shed some salary for the next year and get an asset for helping that team + pocket the extra money they haven't paid Royce yet as well as the 300 grand. using maneuvers like this is how Morey got us to this point