253 replies to this topic

[Mason Khamvilay]

There were rumours that Morey expressed interest in Josh Smith before the
all-star deadline but when the Hawks demanded too much he declined and opted to
pursue Josh in FA instead of shedding our assets. This does follow with Morey's
comments that he would prefer to sign Houston's 2nd star with our cap
room.

I think an unspoken rationale in Morey's
strategy for pursuing Josh Smith is that he can be used as a centerpiece in a
trade for an increasingly disgruntled Kevin Love in 2014.

1. The
Timberwolves are a small market and have difficulty attracting FAs

2.
They have been trying to assemble a win-now roster for the past two seasons.
Their management and ownership group seems to be similar to Les in that they
would prefer not to rebuild through deep sea lottery fishing.

3. The
Timberwolves are committed to mediocrity. This can be inferred from their moves
which indicate that they're not positioning to become a championship caliber
team, but only a profitable, relatively successful franchise.

4. Kevin
Love has been increasingly at odds with Minnesota management ever since they
refused to give him to a 5 year extension and it's more than likely he opts out
of his PO.
 

[Rahat Huq]

I thought about this before.  But I just can't see the Wolves wanting a 29 year old near-maxed-out Smith if they are going to deal Love.  Would rather want young pieces and cap flexibility.

[Steven]

I thought about this before. But I just can't see the Wolves wanting a 29 year old near-maxed-out Smith if they are going to deal Love. Would rather want young pieces and cap flexibility.

Rockets have them too. And the Rockets could try to get a third team involved so they only give up one young guy and Smith.

[Cooper]

Max contract josh smith is not a good trade asset to most people but you never know with Kahn.

[phaketrash]

I would be rather disappointed if we ended up w/ Josh Smith this summer on a max contract. I know he believes he deserves one, but I also know he is willing to negotiate. $17M+ for JSmoove hurts my heart. $14M and I'd be pretty darn happy haha.

[Cooper]

Well whether its 17 or 14 all our cap flexibility is gone regardless so it's not a big deal either way. If its closer to 14 he may be easier to unload in a trade if neccesary.

[Mason Khamvilay]

I fully expect that he will get closer to 14m. And with that being said, alot of teams were interested in Josh Smith when he was on the trading block so I don't know why so many Rocket fans are convinced he is a bad trade asset. If you value defense as much as you value offense then Smith is a top 5 PF in this league, and at 27 years old he's right in his prime easily capable of high flying dunks and chase down blocks for at least another 4 years. Throw him in a package with one of our young high ceiling prospects plus a 1st round pick and that will be a very appealing deal, much more appealing than letting Kevin Love simply walk out the door (don't forget, Love needs to agree to the sign and trade, and Houston is obviously a very appealing destination).

[phaketrash]

Well whether its 17 or 14 all our cap flexibility is gone regardless so it's not a big deal either way. If its closer to 14 he may be easier to unload in a trade if neccesary.

 

There is actually quite a big difference. Sometimes seemingly small amounts of money can really screw things up. Take White's $1.7M contract for example. We wouldn't have to move TRob or a similar move to sign D12 to a max this summer if White's contract weren't on the books. But instead he is.

 

Same for $17M vs. $14M. The $14M gives us the flexibility to move one of our other contracts in a possible future deal more easily. Lot more flexibility. Heck, let us say we signed CP3 this offseason. If JSmoove signed for $14M, we could actually add him to our team (assuming we moved Lin/TRob/one more young asset), whereas if he still wanted $17M, that is all but impossible as we prob couldn't even hit our 12 man roster, and even if we did, would have a worse bench than the Heat did their first yr lol.

 

This is all without even taking into account who we could still keep/get if we saved that $3M straight up (i.e., like a Delfino). 

So it can be a world of a difference.

[rockets best fan]

first ....assuming the rockets will sign j-smith in FA is premature. believing you know what morey is thinking is premature. time and time again morey has pulled the rabbit out of the hat. the one thing morey has proven to me above all is he is unpredictable. some here believe if you say it enough times (Houston will sign j-smith) that it will happen when nothing could be further from the truth. I don't believe Houston will sign j-smith for themselves or to be used in a future trade. the only way I see him here is it was necessary to lure howard from the lakers. j-smith is not a top flight star. morey has shown in the past that he will not bite on bad contracts. j-smith at max money is a bad contract. heck j-smith at 14 mil is a bad contract. it's simple.....the man's production doesn't match a 14 mil paycheck. on top of all this we have a stable of PF's on cheap contracts who may end up being better than j-smith. so why waste money on j-smith when time can fix your problem in that position. I think morey is smart enough to know that. Houston isn't jammed into a corner where we have to spend our money now. we have a 2 year window. some of you guys act like the money is burning your pockets. patient, wise people do not jump at the 1st thing that is dangled in front of them. we have a hold host of options this summer. I am sure morey will look at everything b4 doing anything. at the end of the day I doubt j-smith will still be on the plate.

[Mason Khamvilay]

If GM's were so worried about Josh Smith getting overpaid then why did so many teams try to trade for him before the deadline? Morey was one of them. 

 

And look at Iguodala, he's a DPoY caliber defender who plays both sides of the floor, and you can say the same thing about Josh Smith, but I don't see anyone saying Iggy got overpaid. 

[rockets best fan]

If GM's were so worried about Josh Smith getting overpaid then why did so many teams try to trade for him before the deadline? Morey was one of them. 

 

And look at Iguodala, he's a DPoY caliber defender who plays both sides of the floor, and you can say the same thing about Josh Smith, but I don't see anyone saying Iggy got overpaid. 

true a lot of teams did come calling while j-smith was on the block..........however none bit. I don't blame teams for doing their homework checking to see what's available, but the fact that none thought enough of him to put what the hawks wanted on the table does say something (IMO) about how he is viewed by other GM's

as for iggy.....if you haven't heard people saying iggy got overpaid then you haven't been listening. iggy is a very good player, but not a max player. he doesn't have the ability to put a team on his back and carry them in a game. that's part of the requirements (IMO) to be labeled a star. iggy clearly doesn't fall into that category

[Mason Khamvilay]

I think the Hawks were asking for way too much, they wanted more for Smith than Orlando got for Dwight. 

 

I don't know who these people are saying that Iggy is overpaid, but we saw last night that Denver are a very scary team with Iggy being a very important part of that. He practically took Harden out of the game and outplayed him. I think Josh Smith has the capability to make the same kind of impact for any team that wants to run. 

[rockets best fan]

I think the Hawks were asking for way too much, they wanted more for Smith than Orlando got for Dwight. 

 

I don't know who these people are saying that Iggy is overpaid, but we saw last night that Denver are a very scary team with Iggy being a very important part of that. He practically took Harden out of the game and outplayed him. I think Josh Smith has the capability to make the same kind of impact for any team that wants to run. 

since we weren't in the room we will never know what was really offered, however I think their may be some weight given to the fact the hawks were asking for to much. in that same light however the fact that no team was willing to pay it does say something about what they considered j-smith's value to be.

as for iggy you must not have been watching his time in philly. from the moment he signed his current deal there has been a feeling around the league he got overpaid. if I did research I could probably find 50 stories stating this fact.....however since google is your friend i'm sure you will have no problem looking up this information

[Cooper]

They almost traded smith for a package around Ellis, I think it was Ellis a pick and like udoh or someone. That's not a great deal and the bucks were the ones that pulled out.

[phaketrash]

Some comments, mostly in response to RBF:

 

I disagree that JSmith might not be worth $14M. Who is 27 and worth $14M then? Saying JSmoove is not a max contract player I can more easily agree with, but I imagine he'd definitely be in the $11-14M range at his current age, relative to other nba players of a similar skillset. You make it sound as if JSmoove is really bad or something lol. He's not -- he's pretty good. Probably just not 'max' good, though it has been argued that he'd be great in the Rockets systems as it plays to his strengths while limiting his mistakes/mitigating his downsides.

 

imo, no team was willing to pay the price the Hawks were asking for because 1) they were probably asking for too much -- all the rumors that were floated at the time sounded like they were being heavy-handed in what they thought they could get...and more importantly, 2) JSmith is a free agent this summer. Teams like Houston can sign him outright w/ cap space, and Morey has said more than once that he prefers to acquire his next big player via free agency. Few teams traded because they can just wait for the summer. The new cba has made the trade deadline this yr particularly quiet all the way around. I wouldn't put much stock into JSmith not moving as somehow a sign that he's not desirable.

[timetodienow1234567]

First of all.......

 

1) They'd have to give up precious cap space to eat his near max salary he'd command.

 

2) They'd have to give up picks/young players.

 

Just because teams weren't willing to do both, don't assume that they aren't willing to do the first one.

[rockets best fan]

Some comments, mostly in response to RBF:

 

I disagree that JSmith might not be worth $14M. Who is 27 and worth $14M then? Saying JSmoove is not a max contract player I can more easily agree with, but I imagine he'd definitely be in the $11-14M range at his current age, relative to other nba players of a similar skillset. You make it sound as if JSmoove is really bad or something lol. He's not -- he's pretty good. Probably just not 'max' good, though it has been argued that he'd be great in the Rockets systems as it plays to his strengths while limiting his mistakes/mitigating his downsides.

 

imo, no team was willing to pay the price the Hawks were asking for because 1) they were probably asking for too much -- all the rumors that were floated at the time sounded like they were being heavy-handed in what they thought they could get...and more importantly, 2) JSmith is a free agent this summer. Teams like Houston can sign him outright w/ cap space, and Morey has said more than once that he prefers to acquire his next big player via free agency. Few teams traded because they can just wait for the summer. The new cba has made the trade deadline this yr particularly quiet all the way around. I wouldn't put much stock into JSmith not moving as somehow a sign that he's not desirable.

 

I disagree that teams wanted to wait till summer to sign him .....most teams won't have cap room this summer and the only way they could acquire him was through trade. now Houston had that option, but not the other teams seeking his services. j-smith at 14 mil isn't a bad deal.....just not a good deal for us......we have to much raw talent at PF to waste 14 mil on someone to clog the position from the youngsters we are grooming. that's why I think he is a bad player to pursue. I like j-smith as a player, just not in a rocket jersey.

[Mason Khamvilay]

I thought about this before.  But I just can't see the Wolves wanting a 29 year old near-maxed-out Smith if they are going to deal Love.  Would rather want young pieces and cap flexibility.

 

If that's the case then we can easily do a 3 team trade, there are alot of teams that like Smith.

[Cooper]

Wouldn't mind picking up earl Clark, similar player to smith only takes less bad shots and would be cheaper, Could play the 3/4 and is a solid defender.

[rockets best fan]

If that's the case then we can easily do a 3 team trade, there are alot of teams that like Smith.

the whole idea of signing j-smith and then trading him is unrealistic. if we sign him (which I doubt) it will be to try and build with him as part of the plan. signing him as a trading chip  doesn't sound like a morey move to me. if the rockets don't really want him then why waste the cap space on him when it will limit our flexibility. what if we sign him and we run into the same problem the hawks had( nobody willing to offer enough to move him) then we will have blew our cap space on a player we don't want, but got stuck with because no good offers are on the table