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@  Mario Peña : (10 October 2015 - 01:12 PM) If your part if the Red94 Fantasy Basketball League check the thread to vote for the date and time for the draft event. Thanks y'all!
@  jorgeaam : (07 October 2015 - 08:47 PM) Guys we need 1 more owner for the Red94 fantasy league, if interested please comment on the post in the fantasy basketball thread
@  slick shoes : (07 October 2015 - 06:50 PM) Kobe ranked one spot higher than Ariza? Is this based on legacy or...??
@  slick shoes : (07 October 2015 - 04:13 PM) It was hard to keep up with both the Astros and Rockets at the same time. Should be interesting on Thursday with the Texans and Astros on simultaneously.
@  Mario Peña : (07 October 2015 - 04:09 PM) It was fun to have the Rockets on last night! Right now I'm watching the Celtics versus Milan and Alessandro Gentile is impressive.
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 07:47 PM) Well, thinking twice about it, I'd rather have him score less and have the team as a whole do better. Lawson should take a lot of his load off
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 07:47 PM) Loving that, hope he hits 30 PPG this year
@  thejohnnygold : (06 October 2015 - 06:15 PM) Someone is feeling confident :) : LINK
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 05:54 PM) 10 Teams done, will need 2 more
@  Mario Peña : (06 October 2015 - 02:35 PM) Alright guys, if anyone is interested in joining the Red94 fantasy basketball league we could use one more player to get us to 10 teams (or three to get us to 12 teams). Just check the thread in the Fantasy Basketball forum. Thanks!
@  thejohnnygold : (05 October 2015 - 06:23 PM) I use leaguepass here in Austin with no problems...
@  skip 2 my lou : (05 October 2015 - 03:14 PM) Hey fellas, I'm a rocket fan but I live in the heart of Dallas. Does anybody know if I buy NBA Leaguepass if it's too close to be subject to blackouts?
@  Losthief : (02 October 2015 - 02:24 AM) tks jg
@  thejohnnygold : (29 September 2015 - 05:16 AM) FYI, it was media day today. Interviews are up at NBA.com
@  slick shoes : (23 September 2015 - 06:37 PM) kind of late in the day but NBATV is broadcasting classis Rockets games all day today.
@  SadLakerFan : (16 September 2015 - 04:37 AM) Man, as a Laker fan, I'm learning how little you care about the off season when your team sucks. Anyway, a quick moment to remember Moses. Still remember watching the 81 team as a kid - losing record, NBA Finals. I would have cried w/joy if they could have beaten the Celtics.
@  jorgeaam : (15 September 2015 - 08:30 PM) http://bleacherrepor...ist-after-crash
@  jorgeaam : (15 September 2015 - 08:30 PM) So to celebrate his new contract, Montrezl Harrell saved someone's life on monday
@  thejohnnygold : (14 September 2015 - 04:36 PM) A good article from Blinebury talking about when Hakeem and Moses used to play in the park. LINK
@  rockets best... : (14 September 2015 - 02:29 AM) I agree totally. I got to watch his Rocket days and the man was a hell of a player. BIG MO R.I.P.

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The Bash McHale thread


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#41 phaketrash

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:39 PM

That's working on the premise he did something wrong though, and there's nothing wrong with developing players during the regular season. I'm sure if Vucevic made that lay-up and made it a 3 point game McHale would have put at least Asik back in, but Vucevic missed that lay-up and our 2nd unit pulled though. 

 

But...your comment's based on the premise that he did something right lol. Like I said earlier, it is a value judgment where he had to balance the benefit of developing young players at this point in the season to the cost/risk of them losing it and deflating morale like crazy heading into the playoffs and losing a game that was a blowout. It's fine that he came out the way he did, but I might have done it differently (assuming I did not know the outcome). For me, the risk outweighed the benefit, but just barely. Or let me clarify: the P (probability) in this equation was not huge, but not insignificant either, while I felt the L (cost) was quite large. Was the PL < PB (benefit) here? That is what I questioned. 


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#42 Mason Khamvilay

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:45 PM

In regards to your statement regarding how part of the cost would be "deflating morale like crazy", I strongly disagree because we won't play that line-up much in the playoffs. If anything the morale of that line-up would deflate, but the morale of the starting unit should remain unaffected.


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#43 phaketrash

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:05 PM

In regards to your statement regarding how part of the cost would be "deflating morale like crazy", I strongly disagree because we won't play that line-up much in the playoffs. If anything the morale of that line-up would deflate, but the morale of the starting unit should remain unaffected.

 

Unaffected? No way. The starting line up would be LESS affected than the backup players, but it'd be a deflating loss heading into the post-season. It'd be letting a close one get away, and there'd be less confidence overall. Of course, the backup players would feel the brunt of that loss of morale and confidence -- yet aren't they the ones that would have benefited from closing out the close game as well? Your argument could just be turned around to say, well we won't use that line-up much in the playoffs, so why bother developing their abilities to close out games?


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#44 Sir Thursday

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:06 PM

Some of these bench guys are going to have to play minutes in the playoffs when the pressure is on. By leaving them in like he did McHale gets to see how they hold up in tough situations. Yes, there was a modicum of risk, but when you look at the team on the other side of the court you realise it was lower than you otherwise might think. If there was one team I would choose to pull this kind of stunt against, I would choose Orlando (with apologies to Charlotte). All of their players with experience are injured - they are not a group with the poise or at this point the skill level to effect such a comeback with any high probability.

 

I'm also not sure how much of a morale dampener this would have been. Missing their top two scorers, it is forgiveable (if rather lax) to drop a game like this.  In fact, the main damage it would have done would have been to lower the fans' (and perhaps the players') confidence in McHale further.

 

So personally, it's a risk I don't mind McHale taking - it was his own reputation at stake more than anything else. He saw a rare opportunity to play his bench bigger minutes than usual and seized it. I can understand why that's not a trade off some fans would like him to take, but it works for me.

 

ST


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#45 Mason Khamvilay

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:11 PM

Unaffected? No way. The starting line up would be LESS affected than the backup players, but it'd be a deflating loss heading into the post-season. It'd be letting a close one get away, and there'd be less confidence overall. Of course, the backup players would feel the brunt of that loss of morale and confidence -- yet aren't they the ones that would have benefited from closing out the close game as well? Your argument could just be turned around to say, well we won't use that line-up much in the playoffs, so why bother developing their abilities to close out games?

Unaffected or less affected, either way "deflating morale like crazy" is a gross overstatement. 

 

Our starting line-up gets their fill of regular season experience, breaking off a piece for the bench once in a while would hardly leave the starters starved of experience. 

 

Correct me if I'm reading that last part wrong, but did you ask me why it's important to develop our players? 


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#46 phaketrash

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:14 PM

Actually I would disagree about the risk of injury. Don't you think a player (actually multiple in this case with Lin and Asik) who's been sitting on the bench for about 30 minutes in real time and has cooled off wouldn't pull a hammy or some other unnecessary injury by going back into the game with 1 or 2 minutes remaining?

 

That's what I like the most about Coach McHale, he used to play the game and he knows from experience putting in a starter at the last minute cold isn't the right way to handle the situation. Yes, I was absolutely concerned that our young guys might find a way to lose a guaranteed win, but in the end they pulled it off and nobody is hampered for the rest of the season for an unnecessary injury.

 

BTW, Francisco Garcia would have finished the game, not Delfino, if it weren't for his injury in the last 3 minutes or so of the game. Excess blood, maybe from the nose? I couldn't tell from where I was sitting but they were talking about that on 790 after the game.

 

To add onto my earlier point, the hypo is even more moot now because apparently (according to post-game interview of Jeremy Lin), they were told to stay warm and ready to go in.


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#47 phaketrash

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:17 PM

Some of these bench guys are going to have to play minutes in the playoffs when the pressure is on. By leaving them in like he did McHale gets to see how they hold up in tough situations. Yes, there was a modicum of risk, but when you look at the team on the other side of the court you realise it was lower than you otherwise might think. If there was one team I would choose to pull this kind of stunt against, I would choose Orlando (with apologies to Charlotte). All of their players with experience are injured - they are not a group with the poise or at this point the skill level to effect such a comeback with any high probability.

 

I'm also not sure how much of a morale dampener this would have been. Missing their top two scorers, it is forgiveable (if rather lax) to drop a game like this.  In fact, the main damage it would have done would have been to lower the fans' (and perhaps the players') confidence in McHale further.

 

So personally, it's a risk I don't mind McHale taking - it was his own reputation at stake more than anything else. He saw a rare opportunity to play his bench bigger minutes than usual and seized it. I can understand why that's not a trade off some fans would like him to take, but it works for me.

 

ST

 

This. Thank you for that response ST. That was exactly the other side of the coin that I was considering. It wasn't an unreasonable risk for him to take, and it worked out, but I do think it was a risk, and one I personally disagreed with. How much weight we put on ORL being able to succeed and how much we think the team itself would have suffered in lack of confidence (mind you, this wasn't just a loss w/o their 2 starters, it is a game that was effectively won then lost away -- this degrades the starters' confidence in their bench players and their coach, and of course, don't forget how much confidence the bench itself loses) differs, but reasonably so. All this so close to the post-season. If it were halfway through the season, I'd care much less and would have probably come out differently.

 

And while ORL does suck and mounting a comeback was quite improbable, they did get on quite a run to get within 5...so it isn't asking the probability of that upset occurring vs. the ORL team, but rather, the probability of that upset occurring at that point in time (which, while still not high, is higher than in the former scenario).


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#48 phaketrash

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:18 PM

Unaffected or less affected, either way "deflating morale like crazy" is a gross overstatement. 

 

Correct me if I'm reading that last part wrong, but did you ask me why it's important to develop our players? 

 

No, it is because your earlier statement said you disagreed about the costs because we won't play that line-up much in the playoffs, but the flip side of that argument is that the benefits are lessened as well, because we won't play that line-up much in the playoffs. It cuts both ways.


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#49 Mason Khamvilay

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 08:24 PM

No, it is because your earlier statement said you disagreed about the costs because we won't play that line-up much in the playoffs, but the flip side of that argument is that the benefits are lessened as well, because we won't play that line-up much in the playoffs. It cuts both ways.

Our starting line-up gets their fill of regular season experience, breaking off a piece for the bench once in a while would hardly leave the starters starved of experience. 


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#50 phaketrash

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 09:14 PM

Our starting line-up gets their fill of regular season experience, breaking off a piece for the bench once in a while would hardly leave the starters starved of experience. 

 

Oh, I think we're having a communication error. I don't think the starting line-up losing minutes is a cost. The cost is the loss of morale and confidence the backups would have if they lost that night, plus fan/team loss of confidence in McHale, starting lineup loss of confidence in backup players, McHale's loss of confidence in those same players, and overall gut check feel the team would get for losing one that was a blowout, so close to the end of the season. 

 

The benefits we gain would be literally the flip side of all the aforementioned cons.


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#51 thejohnnygold

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:57 PM

This just in!!!  Thomas Robinson has beef with Kevin McHale!!!

Look as he mocks him behind his back for all to see.... :o

418x314.jpg?center=0.5,0


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#52 rockets best fan

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    glad you're on board, but I been on this boat since it left

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:08 PM

I have seen a few guys weigh in on this so I might as well throw my 2 cents in the cup :rolleyes:  I agree with phaketrash. this was a hell of a risk for McHale to take during a playoff push. during any other part of the season I would have no problem with it, but during a playoff push this game could have come back to bite us. this is not the time of year to be experimenting. I also agree with phaketrash that just because we won doesn't cover the fact that it was wrong in the first place. you can toss any other factors in you like, but the bottom line is during this time of year no game can be taken for granted. when you have a win in hand you don't risk it by experimenting.


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you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


#53 Mason Khamvilay

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:44 PM

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. We usually win the games we're supposed to win, but every now and then we have let a game slip through our fingers and we have always responded well. What makes this game any different? With a young improving team there are always ups and downs, but as long as we keep working hard there will be more ups than downs. 


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#54 rockets best fan

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:55 PM

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. We usually win the games we're supposed to win, but every now and then we have let a game slip through our fingers and we have always responded well. With a young improving team there are always ups and downs, but as long as we keep working hard there will be more ups than downs. 

it all comes down to what you see as more important......winning the game or experimenting with the bench. (IMO) winning the game far outweighs any gained experience the bench received.


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you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


#55 Mason Khamvilay

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:14 AM

What's more important is winning the championship. Everything else is preparation for that moment. Every win, every loss, it's preparation for the day we win a championship. 


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#56 rocketrick

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    Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:30 AM

    Not sure that hypo matters, since they hadn't been sitting on the bench for 30 minutes lol. For example, Lin was in the game through the end of the 3rd quarter. ORL got within 5 pts w/ 2+ min left, but were making the run even earlier. That's maybe 12-13 min of rest, which is not that far off from the time period a starter might get from the end of the first through the break and coming back in some time in the 2nd quarter. I would imagine the risk of injury is negligible, relative to the general rate of injury a player may face having any playing time in the nba.
     
    And people keep going back to the fact that we actually pulled it off -- I don't understand; I'm not criticizing the end result, I'm criticizing the risk he took. I don't think it was necessarily a VERY BAD risk to take -- it was a reasonable one -- but I don't know if I agree with it.
     
    Doing something wrong that ends in a good way does not mean you should encourage the initially wrong action lol. That's a bit too Machiavellian for me.

    Hey Phaketrash, I think you misunderstood my point. The 30 minutes I mentioned in my post is real time, not NBA clock time. By the time you factor in timeouts, out of bounds plays, free throw shooting, etc., it was very close to 30 minutes in real time that Lin and Asik were sitting on the bench. In my mind, it would be a huge risk to put a key rotation guy back in the game after sitting there cold for such a long time.

    I understand your point that after the game Lin stated that Coach McHale told Lin and Asik to "stay warm" but in reality just exactly how does someone sitting on the bench for pretty much 30 minutes solid (real time, not NBA clock time) stay "warm"?? I think more than anything Coach McHale was telling Lin and Asik to stay mentally focused on the game in the crazy event Coach McHale had no other choice but to put them in. As a former player (McHale), I have no doubt McHale totally understood the possible injury risk he would be taking by putting Lin and/or Asik back into the game after sitting idly on the bench for such a long time.

    Lin and Asik certainly didn't get many opportunities to stand and cheer in the 4th quarter because quite frankly there wasn't much to cheer about from the Rockets perspective as the lead kept dwindling and dwindling.
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    #57 phaketrash

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    Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:31 AM

    What's more important is winning the championship. Everything else is preparation for that moment. Every win, every loss, it's preparation for the day we win a championship. 

     

    I don't disagree with this point, but your comment almost sounds like it is in support of me of RBF haha.


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    #58 rockets best fan

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    Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:33 AM

    What's more important is winning the championship. Everything else is preparation for that moment. Every win, every loss, it's preparation for the day we win a championship. 

    true......however we won't be winning it this year. right now we are trying to take that first step to winning it..........make the playoffs. if we had lost that game and it came back to bite us the gained experience by the bench would be negated by the fact that they didn't get a chance to play playoff ball this year. this subject is really all about opinions because since we did win there is no way for us to know the outcome in the other direction. however as a general rule I would rather not put winnable games up for risk trying to get experience for the bench.


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    you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


    #59 phaketrash

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    Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:33 AM

    Hey Phaketrash, I think you misunderstood my point. The 30 minutes I mentioned in my post is real time, not NBA clock time. By the time you factor in timeouts, out of bounds plays, free throw shooting, etc., it was very close to 30 minutes in real time that Lin and Asik were sitting on the bench. In my mind, it would be a huge risk to put a key rotation guy back in the game after sitting there cold for such a long time.

    I understand your point that after the game Lin stated that Coach McHale told Lin and Asik to "stay warm" but in reality just exactly how does someone sitting on the bench for pretty much 30 minutes solid (real time, not NBA clock time) stay "warm"?? I think more than anything Coach McHale was telling Lin and Asik to stay mentally focused on the game in the crazy event Coach McHale had no other choice but to put them in. As a former player (McHale), I have no doubt McHale totally understood the possible injury risk he would be taking by putting Lin and/or Asik back into the game after sitting idly on the bench for such a long time.

    Lin and Asik certainly didn't get many opportunities to stand and cheer in the 4th quarter because quite frankly there wasn't much to cheer about from the Rockets perspective as the lead kept dwindling and dwindling.

     

    I see. I suppose it could be 30 min real time then, but then it comes up against another hurdle...that would mean every single non-starter in the nba "risks" the same injury every time they come into the game in the second quarter or just late in the first quarter, since that's about the same amount of time that has elapsed. If that is so, then this "risk" must be abysmally low.

     

    "Warming up" with that 30 min down time must be enough. They certainly spend more time than that not warming up before the tip off (the bench). 


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    #60 rocketrick

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      Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:35 AM

      Some of these bench guys are going to have to play minutes in the playoffs when the pressure is on. By leaving them in like he did McHale gets to see how they hold up in tough situations. Yes, there was a modicum of risk, but when you look at the team on the other side of the court you realise it was lower than you otherwise might think. If there was one team I would choose to pull this kind of stunt against, I would choose Orlando (with apologies to Charlotte). All of their players with experience are injured - they are not a group with the poise or at this point the skill level to effect such a comeback with any high probability.
       
      I'm also not sure how much of a morale dampener this would have been. Missing their top two scorers, it is forgiveable (if rather lax) to drop a game like this.  In fact, the main damage it would have done would have been to lower the fans' (and perhaps the players') confidence in McHale further.

      I totally concur with Sir Thursday's take on the Orlando situation. You know, there seems to me to be a certain double standard in that Coach McHale gets skewered for not playing his young guys, and then when he does, he gets skewered for not taking them out of the game. You just can't have it both ways, guys!
       
      So personally, it's a risk I don't mind McHale taking - it was his own reputation at stake more than anything else. He saw a rare opportunity to play his bench bigger minutes than usual and seized it. I can understand why that's not a trade off some fans would like him to take, but it works for me.
       
      ST


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