More thoughts on Kobe, Howard implications

When I first sat down to write this, at 6AM this morning, the shock from last night had still not worn off.  I moved onto other priorities and in the twelve hours since, have had some time to reflect and understand my emotions.

A reader mentioned that upon hearing the news, he really felt nothing.  He speculated that this was due to his age.  I think he was right on point.

I’m 28 years old.  I started watching the NBA in 1993 when I was 8.  Jordan was gone.  I didn’t even really appreciate Hakeem.  When Jordan came back and finished out, I still really didn’t think much of it.  I hadn’t been invested as a spectator from the start of his career.

In my viewing life, the “ultra-greats”–those guys you could put in a top-10/top-15 of all-time discussion–who I’ve seen from start to finish were Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, and Kobe.  The former 3, while still effective, all faded into supporting roles towards their later years (or in Shaq’s case into a complete caricature of himself on TNT.)  Duncan and Garnett obviously are still playing.  The greats regarding whom I was not invested (due to my age and not having seen them from the start) were the likes of Hakeem and Barkley.  They too faded but they too had going away tours.  You knew it was coming.

The Kobe news hits so hard because it represents the fall of the most iconic player of my childhood’s generation, at his supreme peak, completely unwarned.  There was no tour; we didn’t see it coming; it just happened.  In the midst of what might have been his greatest season ever.  It’s just shock.  Almost like the assassination of a President.

You look back on Bryant’s career with amazement.  Consider: his ‘peers’, essentially, were Vince Carter, Allen Iverson, and Tracy McGrady, the latter two of whom now reside in China, with the former being considered a ‘surprise’ for his contributions as a role-player.  Bryant, at 34, will likely again make the All-NBA team.

I watched every minute of that game live and he actually got injured two other times, earlier on.  After “the injury”, it still didn’t click.  You saw him limping back to the bench after those two free throws but you knew he’d just come right back in later on.  You saw it happen, something that, if it happened to anyone else, you’d immediately conceptualize the severity, but with Bryant, you just assumed it wasn’t serious.  There is no comparison between an injury and death.  But a quote from Notorious B.I.G. regarding Tupac’s death comes to mind:

so when they were like he got shot i was like again? ya know what im saying hes always getting shot or shot at. he gonna pull through this one again make a few records about it and its gonna be over ya know what im saying? but when he died i was just like wow..

The irony of Bryant is that he’s probably the most overrated player in basketball history, or, at the least, in modern history.  It’s the arduousness of his supporters (in their ‘count the rings’ illogicalities) which actually takes away from a proper appreciation of what the man meant to this sport.  When he’s talked about as the ‘greatest ever’ and protected of his flaws, it dampens the certitude of the stuff that put him amongst the greatest.  He wasn’t the best.  But he was the most committed and dedicated to his craft, perhaps ever.  He was an artist who put supreme diligence to the honing of his skill.  He approached his trade in a manner not humanly possible.  For that we can only revere him.

This reads like an obituary but Kobe will be back.  I wish it weren’t the case.  Just like I wish Jordan hadn’t come back in Washington.  He’ll work his tail off in rehab and probably crack 20 points per game once again, just on the strength of his fundamentals.  But I don’t want that.  I don’t want to tarnish the memory of my generation’s icon.  I want to see him go out on top, and I think, the way he had been playing, were he to hang it up today, it would be, in a way, leaving ontop.

**

The focus now turns to the Lakers who will have to move on to life after Kobe.  Will Dwight Howard stick around?  They had to run their best player into the ground just to squeak into the 8th; that team will surely be even worse next year upon Bryant’s return.

For Howard, it now becomes a clear choice: winning vs. money.  Houston now represents his most viable option to win a championship.  Will he take the 5th year with L.A. or will he bolt?  Things now become much more interesting.

View this discussion from the forum.

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  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/the-los-angeles-lakers-next-star

    laker options

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    Lakers first round pick will be number 30 if they make the playoffs, if they don't the lottery pick goes to Phoenix. Cleveland has the right to swap the Heat pick with the lakers pick.

    So LAL might very well have a pick this offseason depending on Wed. night.

  • Steven says 2 months ago Lakers first round pick will be number 30 if they make the playoffs, if they don't the lottery pick goes to Phoenix. Cleveland has the right to swap the Heat pick with the lakers pick.
  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    I was taking a shower and had an interesting, not well thought out thought haha. We've all been considering, in the unlikely scenario where we get Howard, that we could go after other PFs like Millsap or LMA in trades...butIF we somehow get Howard to agree to sign, one person that is amazing yet under our radar (for the most part) might be Ryan Andersen.

    I know why he isn't talked about much -- he's about as likely to be moved by NO as LMA is from POR -- but he'd be a fantastic fit and we might be able to coax him away from them if we can do a 3 team trade. For example, let us say D12 will sign w/ us, leaving LAL w/ nothing. We could do a S&T 3 team like this:

    LAL

    Out => D12; 1st round pick (assuming they have it, I haven't checked)

    In => Asik

    HOU

    Out => Asik,1st round pick, TRob

    In => D12, Ryan Andersen

    NOP

    Out => Ryan Andersen

    In => two 1st round picks, TRob

    That's just one quick example, but it could work w/ other combinations, though first, we'd most likely have to give away TRob beforehand for a 2nd rounder, then sign Dwight. Afterwards, we could offer either TJones or DMo and our 1st round pick to NOP, in addition to getting a third team's 1st rounder to NOP as well. The third team would get Asik and give up a first rounder -- should be pretty easy to find something like this.

    The deal would leave us UNDER the cap w/ 10 to 11 roster spots (including this offseason's PHX 2nd rounder), depending on which scenario plays out...but we'd have enough to offer the remaining 1-2 roster spots the league minimum or more.

    A starting 5 of Lin/Harden/Parsons/Andersen/Howard is unbelievable. Three players who can do something off the dribble and penetrate, and four players who can shoot from behind the arc and spread the floor. All can run; all are young (so our core is set for awhile at least, even if we're giving up a meh 1st rounder), and Howard is there to anchor our defense in the paint while giving us a very strong post presence. This reminds me of a better version of Howard's ORL team that went to the Finals. That is a team I would love to see build chemistry moving forward.

    Bench would still have Bev/White (lawl)/TJones and/or DMo/GSmith/PHX 2nd rounder/??(/??). All while remaining under the cap.for at least 2 more seasons :O

  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    Recent usatoday sources said people very close to him know Howard is currently deciding to return to LAL, but is known to be fickle so...

    But for stats,since Feb. 12, he's averaging 18.2 points (58.7% shooting), 13.2 rebounds, and 2.5 blocks per game!! This is on fewer touches than he's probably accustomed to -- around 12 a game. He's only been getting better.

    everybody knows d-12 is fickle. he will change his mind at the drop of a hat. knowing that ....the LA front office can't feel good knowing howard intends to listen to the pitches from other teams. if he's willing to listen it opens the door to him changing his mind. this is the thing I think morey has been waiting for(catching d-12 in a spot where he is willing to listen) in Orlando howard would not listen to morey because we didn't have a team that interested him.....that has changed with harden aboard. I think if we come at him like we did bosh a couple of years ago we might lure howard away.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    Recent usatoday sources said people very close to him know Howard is currently deciding to return to LAL, but is known to be fickle so...

    But for stats,since Feb. 12, he's averaging 18.2 points (58.7% shooting), 13.2 rebounds, and 2.5 blocks per game!! This is on fewer touches than he's probably accustomed to -- around 12 a game. He's only been getting better.

  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    But if Howard spends most of his time at the C, Asik becomes a rather expensive backup C that might give you what, 20 minutes a game? 22? His stock is at an all time high right now -- sounds like the situation would be brewing to trade him for value in this scenario.

    I agree..........thinking we can keep asik if we bring in d-12 is probably unrealistic. more than likely he will be moved

  • Richards says 2 months ago

    I don't think Howard/Asik combo will work. Both can't even shoot mid-range jumper. Asik as a backup make sense but very expensive.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    But if Howard spends most of his time at the C, Asik becomes a rather expensive backup C that might give you what, 20 minutes a game? 22? His stock is at an all time high right now -- sounds like the situation would be brewing to trade him for value in this scenario.

  • thejohnnygold says 2 months ago

    I am not saying for small stretches that couldn't be used, but our bread and butter has to be someone at PF with more shooting range than howard.

    Fair enough. I still want to see it. B)

    That's a terrible lineup Hardin/Parsons/Jones/Howard/Asik is way better. Match up against that.

    Maybe, but if they have a Westbrook, D. Rose, John Wall, etc. who guards him? Nobody in that line-up is quick enough. Of course, with Howard and Asik in the paint maybe it doesn't matter????

  • Steven says 2 months ago That's a terrible lineup Hardin/Parsons/Jones/Howard/Asik is way better. Match up against that.
  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    NON-BELIEVERS! :lol:

    I'm not saying we play that ALL the time guys. It's just an option I believe would be quite potent. Howard still gets time at center. Jones will be out there.

    Imagine the last 5 minutes of the game, we're ahead by 4 points and we insert Beverley (or Lin as I think his D is decent...Bev's is better), Harden, Parsons/T-Jones, Howard, and Asik. That unit would cause the opposing offense fits, plus we still have scoring punch.

    I am not saying for small stretches that couldn't be used, but our bread and butter has to be someone at PF with more shooting range than howard.

  • thejohnnygold says 2 months ago

    NON-BELIEVERS! :lol:

    I'm not saying we play that ALL the time guys. It's just an option I believe would be quite potent. Howard still gets time at center. Jones will be out there.

    Imagine the last 5 minutes of the game, we're ahead by 4 points and we insert Beverley (or Lin as I think his D is decent...Bev's is better), Harden, Parsons/T-Jones, Howard, and Asik. That unit would cause the opposing offense fits, plus we still have scoring punch.

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    Daryl Morey: “If you look across the league, when teams play small, they play well. Your offense goes up. Your defense goes down, but your offense goes up more than your defense goes down. So a lot of teams are playing small."

    http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/02/23/after-trades-rockets-take-pace-and-space-to-new-level/

    I remember SVG tried to play Dwight and Gortat together in a losing series, so it's not like it hasn't been tried before. I think a big reason why Morey is drafting alot of new age style PF's instead of old school style PF's is because small ball works really well. The game has evolved and for good reason.

  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    I don't disagree with the notion that Dwight getting pulled out to the 3-pt. line is bad. Of course we don't want that. Which is why at the beginning of the game we establish Dwight in the post against their stretch 4 and let him abuse them. They will either get foul trouble and sit or the coach has to yank them for a stronger player. We can force them to react to what we're doing. Also, Zone defense is legal in the NBA. A zone with asik and howard at it's base is not a bad thing...might even limit Harden's lazy defense....might. All in all, I'd say I am comfortable with Dwight moving out to 15' to defend...after that he is too far out of position.

    I disagree JG. while I do agree howard is capable of playing some PF I don't think this is the proper use of his talent. howards skill set is center. he is dominant there. while asik is a good player, he's not on howard's level. also along with our young PF's with another year of experience plushoward theycould very well be lethal defensively too, but bring a much better offensive game to the table imo

  • thejohnnygold says 2 months ago

    I don't disagree with the notion that Dwight getting pulled out to the 3-pt. line is bad. Of course we don't want that. Which is why at the beginning of the game we establish Dwight in the post against their stretch 4 and let him abuse them. They will either get foul trouble and sit or the coach has to yank them for a stronger player. We can force them to react to what we're doing. Also, Zone defense is legal in the NBA. A zone with asik and howard at it's base is not a bad thing...might even limit Harden's lazy defense....might. All in all, I'd say I am comfortable with Dwight moving out to 15' to defend...after that he is too far out of position.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    I echo the sentiments of most that say hey, we don't lose much if we sign Dwight -- can always move Asik at the deadline if it doesn't work well. In regards to Dwight running up the court...similar to the lack of PnR action he was doing earlier in the season, I really think it was due to his injury. He wasn't up for a lot of things yet -- he and D'Antoni have both said so; that since he's been fully recovered, he's been a much more willing PnR participant, and I think running up and down in general (though I don't think heprefers running). Either way, Dwight certainly does not lack the physical tools to run up and down the court.

    On packaging players for LMA (centered around Asik) if we get Dwight...I love the idea. While we most likely can't sign Parsons and Lin 1.5 yrs later, that is 1.5 yrs later! We might let one of them go -- Morey I am sure can find a solid replacement role player to surround around LMA, Dwight, Harden and ONE OF Lin/Parsons. Just too amazing to have ALL of them for 1.5 seasons and just miss out on one 1.5 yrs later. Maybe Lin will be so in love w/ Parsons by then that he'll take a discount to stay :P I could see him doing that if his agent doesn't convince him otherwise lol.

    Finally, I don't know how the offense will work w/ Dwight and Asik, but like we all mentioned, worth a try. My greater question is actually...we seem to take for granted that the two will be amazing on defense, but will Dwight be that effective being drawn out to closer to the 3 pt line vs. today's growing number of stretch 4's? Does he have the speed to keep up w/ some of them if they're initiating from outside of the post? How's he cover midrange jump shooters and even 3's? I don't think many PFs will want to post down on Dwight, so they might try other things. No idea how adept he is at handling those scenarios.

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    LOL... He said: "If you see me in a fight with a bear, prey for the bear."

    I think he means "pray" else that quote takes on a whole new meaning :D

    Lol @ Kobe

  • thejohnnygold says 2 months ago

    That's cool. Best case scenario is we get to find out first hand by signing Dwight.

    Regarding Hakeem/Thorpe, I meant that one as an example of a successful inside out offense with a non-shooting PF. I don't consider Dwight to be defunct on offense. Shaq couldn't shoot and was still potent offensively. I am looking at Dwight the same way.

  • Alituro says 2 months ago

    https://twitter.com/MySportsLegion/status/323072154423926785/photo/1

    LOL... He said: "If you see me in a fight with a bear, prey for the bear."

    I think he means "pray" else that quote takes on a whole new meaning :D

  • Richards says 2 months ago

    Are we going gaga over daughter's imaginary boyfriend Justin Bieber instead of appreciating own son? :D

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    Hakeem and Thorpe is not an example of two big men who can't shoot. Blake and DeAndre is the best example you have found, and like I said Blake was shooting very well earlier in the season. If I remember correctly he was shooting about 4 per game at a 41% clip when I checked a couple of months ago, so whatever it is now is a result of a shooting slump or simply coming down to earth--regardless the point is that defenses respect his shot alot more than they would respect Dwight's.

    Morey has spoken about small ball in interviews, and he has said that in most cases the defense goes down but the offense goes up more than the defense goes down. I favor a Dwight-Jones combo over Dwight-Asik based on not only that thought process, but also the fact that I can think of a single championship team in the last 20 years that won with two big men who can't shoot. With all that beign said, I'm not against trying it in spurts before Asik moves at the deadline as long as our prospects get enough playing time to prove their worth.

  • thejohnnygold says 2 months ago

    Yeah, if we get Howard we have to try it. I'm all for moving Asik at the trade deadline if it doesn't work, but we'd have to try it. Opponents would have to almost exclusively shoot from mid-range and three with those two back there. We already grab 75% of the defensive rebounds...does that number increase to 85% ? is that even possible?

  • feelingsupersonic says 2 months ago Though the chances are slim to nil I would be interested to see a Howard/Asik frontline, the defense would be devastating I am guessing.
  • thejohnnygold says 2 months ago

    Yeah, I was joking a bit about Asik's shooting...should have put a little winky face next to it ;)

    Griffin's numbers are pretty dismal from mid-range. Yes he can make it, and I would let him shoot that all day long at 35% vs. his numbers in the paint at 65%.

    On defense, as I've said, it gives us options. I believe that Jones and Howard would be an awesome combo as well. It's about having that ability to create mis-matches, take away an opponent's strengths, etc. If we're playing Portland, maybe we use Howard at the 5 more and put Jones on LMA. I like having the personnel to be able to combat whatever a team has to throw at us and even turn the tables forcing them to react to us. Can Aldridge and the 6'9" JJ Hickson handle the Howard-Asik front court? I don't think so, but maybe....if so, we switch it up until we find a pairing they can't handle.

    Also, this comes with the caveat that more of our offense would come from an inside-out format. This creates spacing for threes just as well as the drive and kick. The '94 championship Rockets did this to perfection with Otis Thorpe at PF.

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    We're doing pretty well with Greg Smith and Asik...I'd rate Howard as an upgrade. Also, for what it's worth Asik has a higher shooting percentage from mid-range (36%) than our mutually beloved Josh Smith (30%). Remember, we aren't playing one on one. As a team, if we get the ball to these guys in positions that they can do what they do best (dunk it) it doesn't matter how well they shoot. DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin come to mind as a starting front court with limited shooting abilities. Clips have one of the best offensive ppg (8th) and defensive ppg (4th) per espn.com. They have a net +6.4 scoring margin. I think we would be better...

    And the defense...I'm surprised you're not giddy about the defense....

    Edit: I would also add Cleveland, New Orleans and Washington to the non-shooting front court....Obviously, Varejao has been out all year, and NO is breaking in a rookie, but Washington seems to have it worked out since getting Wall back. OKC is close, but Ibaka has a developed his mid-range game.

    Howard is definately an upgrade over Greg Smith, but I'm not sure how much that is saying,like I said no floor spacinghas been working for us in the regular season but the post season is a whole different animal.

    Moving on, that's a very small sample you're talking about with the mid-range shooting percentages, Asik attempts 1 shot every 10 games from 10-15ft, and 1 shot every 5 games from 16-23ft. Not to mention defenses are leaving Asik wide open out there, defenses will dare Josh Smith to shoot but they are no where near as blatant about it as they are with Asik.

    Blake Griffin is nowhere near as bad of a shooter as you're insinuating, he takes a fair amount of mid-range shots and he was knocking them down at an above average rate earlier in the season, lately he has been missing them alot but defenses are still respecting that he can make it.

    As for getting giddy about the defense, I think Dwight's impact as a defender works best when he's around the rim. He will still bea starat PF, but we won't get the full impact of Dwight's defensive capability there. A Dwight-Asik combo would have great defense, and a Dwight-Jones combo will have less defense, but with the latter combo I think our offense goes up more than our defense goes down.

  • Cooper says 2 months ago Probably couldnt afford both Lin and parsons with 3 max contracts without Les Being ok with paying a substantial tax bill, (wouldn't blame him if he wasn't) even so that big 3 would be really good and they might be able to keep one of Lin/Parsons and hopefully be able to draft a replacement for the other.
  • thejohnnygold says 2 months ago

    We're doing pretty well with Greg Smith and Asik...I'd rate Howard as an upgrade. Also, for what it's worth Asik has a higher shooting percentage from mid-range (36%) than our mutually beloved Josh Smith (30%). Remember, we aren't playing one on one. As a team, if we get the ball to these guys in positions that they can do what they do best (dunk it) it doesn't matter how well they shoot. DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin come to mind as a starting front court with limited shooting abilities. Clips have one of the best offensive ppg (8th) and defensive ppg (4th) per espn.com. They have a net +6.4 scoring margin. I think we would be better...

    And the defense...I'm surprised you're not giddy about the defense....

    Edit: I would also add Cleveland, New Orleans and Washington to the non-shooting front court....Obviously, Varejao has been out all year, and NO is breaking in a rookie, but Washington seems to have it worked out since getting Wall back. OKC is close, but Ibaka has a developed his mid-range game.

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    I agree that Asik would move at the deadline if we get Dwight. I also like the idea of packaging guys we don't need for Aldridge, but can we afford to resign Lin and Parsons if we have three max contracts?

  • Cooper says 2 months ago It's not guarenteed to work but its not like it will be difficult moving asik at the deadline if it doesn't. Certainly worth a shot in my opinion unless somehow we could package some stuff with asik for Aldrige right away this summer.
  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    Not buying it. You might get away with it in the regular season, but in the playoffs when defenses get tighter that poor floor spacing is going to hurt lane penetration. There are ways to get spacing without shooters, but it requires an insane amount of movement. Dwight is very mobile for a center, but he's not Faried caliber mobile. You also have to consider the fact our system is fast paced, and Dwight has complained about the pace in L.A. being too fast. In our system, especially if he's playing PF, he will whine so much it will make our ears bleed.

  • Cooper says 2 months ago


    If starting two centers who can't shoot is a good idea, why aren't there more teams doing it?


    They don't have Howard and Asik
  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    Ifstarting two centers who can't shootis a good idea,why aren't theremore teams doing it?

  • thejohnnygold says 2 months ago

    Funny enough, I left after this comment to go read the most recent Zach Lowe at Grantland. As always it is a good read, but this one happened to support some of my assertions about point differential and it's importance. Always good when Zach Lowe has your back, right?

  • thejohnnygold says 2 months ago

    I'm jumping back in on the Asik+Howard combo. I'm shocked that more people aren't giddy over the possibility. First, the defense would be insanely good--two of the top 5 defensive centers in the league guarding the paint means opponents are going to have a heck of a time getting easy shots. Further, these are two of the top defensive rebounding centers in the league which means we will corral most of the misses off of the aforementioned tougher shots. I think it is a conservative estimate to think we can shave 10 ppg from our opponents. That puts us in the top 5 scoring defenses in the league.

    As for the offense--the analytics point to the efficiency of scoring in three ways: in the paint, by three, and free throws. How one goes about that is dependent on personnel--Houston, having no dominant post presence, relies on the athleticism of its wings to get to the rim and/or kick out for the three. As we have all witnessed, this has it's drawbacks--mainly turnovers and a reliance on refs blowing the whistle.

    With Howard+Asik (as well as G. Smith, Jones, and D-Mo) our front court is loaded. Wing defenders will have to sag down to double Dwight and boxing out Asik to clean up his misses is paramount. This leaves our 3 wing shooters open for threes or driving past scrambling recovery defense to get to the rim. I honestly think it makes us more potent on offense as Dwight is shooting a crisp 71% in the paint (excluding free throws) over the past 30 days. (it is 61% for the season, but I feel his recent play is more indicative of what we could expect...still, 61% is good). I think our net point production would see a minor increase, but more importantly, we would be more consistent and able to adjust to exploit an opponent's defensive weakness instead of beating our heads against a wall when the offense isn't working. Plus, Howard gets to post up PF's...imagine Dirk trying to stop Howard in the post. That would just be silly. :)

    This also doesn't hurt our transition offense as Howard is more than capable of running the floor--it is mostly our wing players that execute this portion of the offense anyways.

    As we all know, one of the important numbers behind the efficiency stats is points per shot. Howard is shooting 1.23 pps in the paint for the season. A three point shooter would need to connect on 41% of his shots to equal this output. Surprisingly, 25 players in the league are accomplishing this right now.

    I could go on and on as I love this idea to the nth degree. The bottom line is our net point differential (something I have harped on before as a key component to improving our wins/losses) should easily see something in the +10 range. That is HUGE. If it helps, imagine Indiana suddenly being able to post 106 ppg while still holding opponents in the low 90's. Simply brutal. Also, it would ease the burden on our questionable wing defense as that back line can erase a lot of mistakes on the perimeter.

    I'm not trying to convert anyone, but I think it is short-sighted to not see the huge potential a line-up like this has. I know Morey loves his three-point shooting, but efficiency is efficiency and when it comes with a huge defensive upgrade you've got to take a look.

  • Freebird says 2 months ago

    Were I the Lakers, I would amnesty Kobe now and look to sign him in 2015 for his farewell tour. Give him a full year to recover, and in the mean time, do the accounting to keep what players they can. Everyone I have seen discussing this injury on the Ocho has pretty much said the same thing - minutes weren't the cause, but he ain't coming back to where he was, and that folks retire from this most of the time.

    It's well known that he isn't going to change teams, regardless, so saving the cash now wouldn't hurt. It would be a wink-n-nod type of arrangement, but there have been worse.

    As for how it affects the Rox - I think it actually hurts our chances with Kobe out. While D12 is an awesome talent, his psyche is fragile. He wants to win, and he wants folks to like him and want him. The Lakers sans Kobe will still compete for the playoffs, and it will be Dwight's team then.

    As for whether we want him - I'm undecided. If we stay with the analytics offense (layups and corner 3s), he becomes valuable only in the center role - replacing Asik. We need the stretch 4 to space the floor correctly for this. So the tenet that Asik + D12 play together isn't feasible if we continue along this route.

    However, of we go to a more traditional offense, thenAsik + D12 could potentially work, but we give up on Morey's direction, somewhat. For example, since placing Smith at the 4, our defense is way up, but we aren't playing the same as we were. Less ball movement, fewer passing destinations out beyond the arc, and our athleticism is somewhat wasted. We are allowing opponents to clog the middle on us, which benefits them.

    So, ignoring the financial aspect, the only way I would want D12 is without Asik. And it's still far-fetched than he would come here.

  • tombrokeoff says 2 months ago

    interesting thread. going to be fun watching the rockets in the playoffs. hopefully they can take whatever opponent to 7 games. going to also be a fun offseason. in regards to the kobe bryant injury. i was at the rockets game on friday and then went out to a bar afterward, so i didnt really hear about it right away. once i did hear, i wasnt all that sad for whatever reason. im about to turn 36. i pretty much watched all of jordans career and always felt that he was the greatest. watching him in the playoffs was something else. when he retired the first time, i felt sick because i never got to watch him play in person. when he came back i vowed to goto a bulls game, but with them only coming to houston once a year, i somehow failed to make it. and then he retired again and i felt even sicker than before. when he came back to the lowly wizards, i HAD to go even if it wasnt 100% the same. the wizards came to town and my friend and i got the most nosebleed seats there were. the seats sucked, but to get to see jordan play in person was awesome. i actually found myself cheering for jordan and being glad i got to see him win a game as the wiz beat the rockets. i remember steve francis being pissed at the crowd for cheering for jordan. for kobe, as mentioned, he'll be back. and ive seen him play a few times, so its not nearly the same feeling as with jordan.

  • Rahat Huq says 2 months ago

    As little as Robinson has shown, another positive of that trade is that it would be much easier togive Robinson away than togive Patterson away, I think.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    The NBA Draft is on June 27, should be about 7-10 days or so after the NBA Finals end (unless the Miami Heat sweep ___________). I'm not exactly sure off the top of my head the first date the Rockets can start waiving players after the season ends, is it July 1?

    So trading away Thomas Robinson so quickly after the end of the season seems rather risky to me unless, of course, the Rockets don't believe he would ever develop into an NBA Starter or key rotation player down the road.

    We traded away a lottery pick already, Marcus Morris, for a 2nd round draft pick. So I guess it's possible the Rockets might do so again with Thomas Robinson. I just don't see the point of trading away Patrick Patterson and Marcus Morris to basically obtain Thomas Robinson and then giving him away for a second round draft pick unless something bigger is in the works that is guaranteed to happen.

    I think you're right that there is some risk involved -- we just both characterize that risk differently. I think if there is a very good shot at Dwight, it is a cost I am very willing to take (losing TRob). If not, we might not move him on draft night and wait till we have verbal confirmation from Dwight that he will sign. We can then move TRob. If we don't trust verbal confirmation (though again, I don't think he'd lie), we could do a S&T w/ LAL and a third team or LAL straight up. LA would rather have TRob than nothing I imagine. And if they prefer nothing,some team will be willing to take TRob off our hands for a 2014 2nd rounder.

    Maybe TRob will still blossom, but no way will he be at Dwight's level. To have a shot at Dwight, who I believe would make us a game changer, would involvesome risk. I just don't think this is that much risk. My whole point was that Coon's blog post was a bit misleading -- no way in hell we waive Parsons lol, nor Bev really, when we would instead just move TRob and have more than enough room for Dwight's max and those great role players.

    And we moved MM for a 2nd round draft pick, not for TRob, and to clear some more cap space.

  • rocketrick says 2 months ago The NBA Draft is on June 27, should be about 7-10 days or so after the NBA Finals end (unless the Miami Heat sweep ___________). I'm not exactly sure off the top of my head the first date the Rockets can start waiving players after the season ends, is it July 1?

    So trading away Thomas Robinson so quickly after the end of the season seems rather risky to me unless, of course, the Rockets don't believe he would ever develop into an NBA Starter or key rotation player down the road.

    We traded away a lottery pick already, Marcus Morris, for a 2nd round draft pick. So I guess it's possible the Rockets might do so again with Thomas Robinson. I just don't see the point of trading away Patrick Patterson and Marcus Morris to basically obtain Thomas Robinson and then giving him away for a second round draft pick unless something bigger is in the works that is guaranteed to happen.
  • rocketrick says 2 months ago

    ? nba draft night -- these sorts of trades happen all the time. And saying people can get a #5 draft pick on rookie scale salary for virtually free (an undervalued 2nd round pick)...I would imagine people would be chomping at the bits. It is a rather silly move for us to do, unless of course we need to do it to sign D12. So move TRob for a 2nd round pick. Solves both our problems for the 11th and 12th slot and clearing the necessary cap space.

    And in turn when Howard declines the Rockets gracious offer, the Rockets no longer have a lottery pick on their roster from the 2012 draft to develop. Most trades at the NBA Draft are teams positioning themselves for a certain player, more second round draft picks, moving up in the draft, moving down in the draft. Not many players already on an NBA roster get traded during the NBA Draft in years past.

    Still, I do give you credit that certainly a Thomas Robinson might be enticing for someone that would simply trade the Rockets a 2nd round draft pick plus whatever else the NBA may require to make this an "even" trade.

    I just believe it's too risky to play that kind of fire with our roster with no guarantees regarding Howard. And especially no guarantees regarding Howard knowing his past.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    Just exactly who are is the Rockets trade partner going to be for T-Rob or any of the other remaining players on the roster? Especially considering that Morey would have to make this happen immediately after the NBA Finals and before the start of free agency. Very, very few trades occur during this short time period. So no, I think Coon's assessment is more realistic than you're giving him credit for. He didn't account for trades because of the strong unlikelihood a trade could even come about at that particular time of the year.

    Remember Rockets fans, the Rockets have to be positioned player salary wise BEFORE being qualified by the NBA to even make any kind of an offer to Howard. Even then, Howard has said umpteen times that Houston is not one of his preferred destinations. What else can be said about this other than it's simply pie in the sky and very unrealistic to even be thinking that Howard could possibly be a Rocket starting next season.

    Again, draft night. Lots of movement can occur then. And if not then, 3rd partner in a S&T for D12, or directly w/ LAL for D12. Why would LAL not want to take on a #5 draft prospect for free, when not doing so would leave them w/ nothing? If not them, pretty sure another team is more than happy to come and take him off our hands for a 2nd round draft pick.

    I think it is rather simple to get done. 2nd round draft pick for a #5 pick on rookie scale? That is asteal. SO many worse deals are made in the nba all the time. Of course, I imagine that IF we move TRob on draft night, it'd only be if D12 has consented to joining us. We would have talked to him before then, even if he can't sign yet. I guess he couldlie to us and say he'll sign, wait for us to move TRob, then laugh in our face...but I'm not sure why he would choose to do that, and why he'd want to hurt his image even more.

    I don't know if Coon's assessment is more realistic...he didn't comment on TRob one way or another. I have no idea what his assessment is on that notion. David Weiner, who often communicates w/ Coon and is sort of like a protege to him, thinks TRob being moved in this scenario is quite likely and would create the necessary cap room.

    But if what you want to argue is the notion that TRob is unmovable for free, then I can only politely disagree. That is also sort of different than what your original post was going for. But if TRob is moved, signing Dwight to a max and keeping most of the players that we want (like Bev, Parsons, etc.) would be very doable.

    Again, this is all in the rather unlikely scenario that Dwight comes to Houston, though apparently a lot of people on espn now think he'll come to Houston haha, for what it is worth (probably very little).

  • rocketrick says 2 months ago

    What? How is what I am saying an opinion? It is just basic salary cap math. For whatever reason, Coon did not include the prospect of moving TRob to clear space. I'm not saying that he did not realize this could happen, but for whatever reason, he just did not address it. Of course, if we DON'T move TRob, we can't clear the room to sign Howard to a max. But if we DO move TRob, not only could we clear the room, we could still at least re-sign Bev and Parsons. I'm not sure why you're adamant that this isn't so. It isn't contradictory to anything that has been stated and is just math.

    The $39.3M is for 7 players. We would move one of them (TRob's $3.5M) to sign Howard, bringing us to approximately to $56.2M (+Howard's $20.4M). We would still have room to re-sign Parsons and Bev and GSmith. That would take us to 10 players, and that is not yet counting our pick. Pick for 11th spot, MLE or vet min or hope the cap is just a TAD higher (which it is projected to be based on reports that revenue is higher this year) for that 12th player. Lots of ways to get that 12th.

    Just exactly who are is the Rockets trade partner going to be for T-Rob or any of the other remaining players on the roster? Especially considering that Morey would have to make this happen immediately after the NBA Finals and before the start of free agency. Very, very few trades occur during this short time period. So no, I think Coon's assessment is more realistic than you're giving him credit for. He didn't account for trades because of the strong unlikelihood a trade could even come about at that particular time of the year.

    Remember Rockets fans, the Rockets have to be positioned player salary wise BEFORE being qualified by the NBA to even make any kind of an offer to Howard. Even then, Howard has said umpteen times that Houston is not one of his preferred destinations. What else can be said about this other than it's simply pie in the sky and very unrealistic to even be thinking that Howard could possibly be a Rocket starting next season.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    What too many people don't take into consideration, is the level of difficulty of trading away a player such as a Thomas Robinson during the short time period after the NBA Finals and before the start of free agency. How many trades does anyone recall happening at this time of the year? I sure don't recall any on the top of my head. There probably have been a few, but reality says there aren't going to be enough trade partners in that short time frame to even try and make a trade happen.

    The Rockets signing Howard to a max deal is definitely pie in the sky. It just isn't that simple in reality.

    ? nba draft night -- these sorts of trades happen all the time. And saying people can get a #5 draft pick on rookie scale salary for virtually free (an undervalued 2nd round pick)...I would imagine people would be chomping at the bits. It is a rather silly move for us to do, unless of course we need to do it to sign D12. So move TRob for a 2nd round pick. Solves both our problems for the 11th and 12th slot and clearing the necessary cap space.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    Before Morey could offer Howard the maximum, he would have to waive certain players and trade other certain players to have the Rockets positioned salary wise such that they would be even eligible to make a max offer to Howard.

    The Rockets can't sign Howard to a max offer then trade a couple of other players later. They must make their moves beforehand.

    So, should Morey gamble by waiving certain players and trading certain players to position the Rockets to simply just make a max offer to Howard? Then what happens after Howard declines the Rockets gracious offer of the max but only 4 years per the CBA? For one, the Rockets would start anew with a mostly depleted roster going into 2013-14. In order to have kept Chandler Parsons and Patrick Beverley at minimum, the Rockets would have had to trade away a couple of our young PF's. Our roster and depth would basically be depleted. Is this worth the trouble? I say absolutely no!!

    This wouldn't happen. I mean, I guess we'd waive Olbrecht and Brooks and Anderson and Garcia and Delfino (expected), but those are all pretty palatable moves. We wouldn't have to give up any of our young PFs except TRob. I just wonder if we have to preemptivelydo that or wait till we get a pretty good idea from Dwight that he wants to sign here. We could even S&T and give TRob to the LAL at that point. Or anyone for free -- I don't think that will be hard to accomplish.

  • rocketrick says 2 months ago

    So basically, Dwight coming to Houston is still very unlikely. Don't get your hopes up Rocket fans, but Morey should "kick the tires" anyway as RBF would say.

    What too many people don't take into consideration, is the level of difficulty of trading away a player such as a Thomas Robinson during the short time period after the NBA Finals and before the start of free agency. How many trades does anyone recall happening at this time of the year? I sure don't recall any on the top of my head. There probably have been a few, but reality says there aren't going to be enough trade partners in that short time frame to even try and make a trade happen.

    The Rockets signing Howard to a max deal is definitely pie in the sky. It just isn't that simple in reality.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    Now whether D12comes or not is a totally different topic. I think we all realize the prospects of it happening are very low. I personally put it in the single digits. But if he WAS willing to come, we could definitely make room for him under the cap to sign him to a 4 yr max, assuming we move TRob for free. We'd only be giving up on Anderson, Olbrecht, Garcia, Delfino, and Brooks' contracts.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    The $39 million in guaranteed money you speak of is exactly what Coon mentions in his well researched article. The $39 million in guaranteed contracts DOES NOT INCLUDE Chandler Parsons, Patrick Beverley, Greg Smith, Delfino, Garcia, et al as previously mentioned.

    So yes your math is somewhat correct, but you also forgot to account for 5 slots at the league minimum, a 2nd round draft pick salary slot and there is still the salary slot for the 15th player on the roster. Even then, the Rockets could not offer Howard the maximum. I stand by this, it makes total sense to me. Unless you can provide actual facts and not opinion, I don't really see the point of arguing this any longer.

    Sure, the Rockets could also trade some of their other players, T-Rob, Motiejunas, Terrence Jones, etc. to create room for a max contract offer to Howard.

    Still, in the end, I believe this is all silliness. Howard isn't going anywhere, in my opinion he's going to be a Laker for quite some time to come.

    What? How is what I am saying an opinion? It is just basic salary cap math. For whatever reason, Coon did not include the prospect of moving TRob to clear space. I'm not saying that he did not realize this could happen, but for whatever reason, he just did not address it. Of course, if we DON'T move TRob, we can't clear the room to sign Howard to a max. But if we DO move TRob, not only could we clear the room, we could still at least re-sign Bev and Parsons. I'm not sure why you're adamant that this isn't so. It isn't contradictory to anything that has been stated and is just math.

    The $39.3M is for 7 players. We would move one of them (TRob's $3.5M) to sign Howard, bringing us approximately to $56.2M (+Howard's $20.4M). We would still have room to re-sign Parsons and Bev and GSmith. That would take us to 10 players, and that is not yet counting our pick. Pick for 11th spot, MLE or vet min or hope the cap is just a TAD higher (which it is projected to be based on reports that revenue is higher this year) for that 12th player. Lots of ways to get that 12th.

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    So basically, Dwight coming to Houston is still very unlikely. Don't get your hopes up Rocket fans, but Morey should "kick the tires" anyway as RBF would say.

  • rocketrick says 2 months ago

    Before Morey could offer Howard the maximum, he would have to waive certain players and trade other certain players to have the Rockets positioned salary wise such that they would be even eligible to make a max offer to Howard.

    The Rockets can't sign Howard to a max offer then trade a couple of other players later. They must make their moves beforehand.

    So, should Morey gamble by waiving certain players and trading certain players to position the Rockets to simply just make a max offer to Howard? Then what happens after Howard declines the Rockets gracious offer of the max but only 4 years per the CBA? For one, the Rockets would start anew with a mostly depleted roster going into 2013-14. In order to have kept Chandler Parsons and Patrick Beverley at minimum, the Rockets would have had to trade away a couple of our young PF's. Our roster and depth would basically be depleted. Is this worth the trouble? I say absolutely no!!

  • rocketrick says 2 months ago

    @rocketrick

    Larry Coon's analysis, which I've read, is a tad misleading. Lots of fans like bimathug over at clutchfans (and Coon's protege in a way) knew that we couldn't clear that room to sign him without moving someone, but the idea was we would move TRob. Yes, to sign D12 to a max, we will have to move TRob for nothing (maybe S&T w/ LAL to give them TRob). Doing this means we would not have to waive GSmith or PBev or Parsons (who we would never waive). It was a bit funny to me that Coon would suggest we would have to waive Parsons, GSmith and PBev before contemplating the much more realistic scenario that we keep those 3 and just move TRob.

    We have $39M in guaranteed money. Add in D12's $20M and we're essentially at the cap...but move TRob and we'll be able to keep the aforementioned 3 players.

    The $39 million in guaranteed money you speak of is exactly what Coon mentions in his well researched article. The $39 million in guaranteed contracts DOES NOT INCLUDE Chandler Parsons, Patrick Beverley, Greg Smith, Delfino, Garcia, et al as previously mentioned.

    So yes your math is somewhat correct, but you also forgot to account for 5 slots at the league minimum, a 2nd round draft pick salary slot and there is still the salary slot for the 15th player on the roster. Even then, the Rockets could not offer Howard the maximum. I stand by this, it makes total sense to me. Unless you can provide actual facts and not opinion, I don't really see the point of arguing this any longer.

    Sure, the Rockets could also trade some of their other players, T-Rob, Motiejunas, Terrence Jones, etc. to create room for a max contract offer to Howard.

    Still, in the end, I believe this is all silliness. Howard isn't going anywhere, in my opinion he's going to be a Laker for quite some time to come.
  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    I would hope Coon is a fan of the NBA, didn't know he was a fan of the Lakers but I don't think that diminishes his intimate knowledge of the CBA. Kind of surprised how quickly everyone responded to my post, no way anyone could have taken the time to go to the link to review, then post. But I digress.........

    If there is someone else that is more knowledgeable about the intricacies of the CBA and how a team must position itself player salary wise BEFORE offering a Howard, et al a contract, please do provide the rest of us with a link as I am always desirous of learning as much about this as anyone else.

    Just simply saying Coon is basically off his rocker doesn't help your argument one whit in my opinion

    I read it when it first came out weeks ago, and I've followed the discussion on clutchfans about it for awhile (when it was going on). He isn't off his rocker -- Coon is technically correct. I'm just saying it is misleading. Like I said, we clear the cap space by moving TRob (which he doesn't address). It allows us to sign Dwight to a max AND keep Parsons, Bev, and maaaaybe GSmith (depending on where the cap falls). That was something bimathug over at clutchfans (David Weiner, who speaks on these matters on various Rockets-related podcasts, etc.) had stated awhile ago.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    Then he should sign a one year deal with us, and we will give him the 5 year deal after that.

    I don't think he'd risk that haha. What if he gets injured again in that one yr? God forbid he have to make another decision a yr later if things don't go entirely the way he pleases...holding us by gunpoint like he has for 2 organizations in a row. I personally just don't see this happening.

  • rocketrick says 2 months ago

    Coon is a self-professed LAL fan haha, so I think his analysis was a tad misleading. We would not have to give up key pieces to sign Dwight to a max, unless you count TRob as a key piece (I don't). Push comes to shove, if we're still a tad over, wemaaaaaaybe have to give up GSmith as well, but that comes down to exactly where the cap falls and how adding a pick to the salary works, etc. I think we could keep him and get our 12th via MLE or something along those lines.

    I would hope Coon is a fan of the NBA, didn't know he was a fan of the Lakers but I don't think that diminishes his intimate knowledge of the CBA. Kind of surprised how quickly everyone responded to my post, no way anyone could have taken the time to go to the link to review, then post. But I digress.........

    If there is someone else that is more knowledgeable about the intricacies of the CBA and how a team must position itself player salary wise BEFORE offering a Howard, et al a contract, please do provide the rest of us with a link as I am always desirous of learning as much about this as anyone else.

    Just simply saying Coon is basically off his rocker doesn't help your argument one whit in my opinion
  • thejohnnygold says 2 months ago

    I've already addressed the Dwight at PF option.

    Oops, my bad. I disagree with you somewhat. I don't disagree that Dwight is good with a stretch 4. I do think it will work pairing him with Asik. Memphis takes a different offensive approach. Much like Indiana, their defense is so good that they prefer to slow the game down. I like the pairing of Howard and Asik moreso for the defensive implications, but i do think it would be an upgrade on offense as well as Howard is a great finisher, commands double teams, and gives us the ability to play inside-out if we want.

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    Can't. Under the new cba, players cannot get more benefits from a S&T. They will get what they would have otherwise gotten under a straight up signing, i.e., in this case, D12 would still only get his 4 yr deal.

    Then he should sign a one year deal with us, and we will give him the 5 year deal after that.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    Hmmmm...Cba=quantum physics for me so I will take your word for it. Obviously, no, gutting the roster is not an option in my opinion. It has been posited that you get the stars first and then find the role players--and I can't argue with that too much as time and again teams have done this successfully. I think it would take a season or two, but that is a viable plan. I am operating under the assumption that we can sign him without surrendering key pieces...if that's not the case then my stance might change.

    As for the 5 minutes at back-up for asik....that isn't at all what I was pushing for. More like 25 minutes or so at center with Dwight playing Pf most of that time. Keeping dwight on the floor is a good thing.

    Coon is a self-professed LAL fan haha, so I think his analysis was a tad misleading. We would not have to give up key pieces to sign Dwight to a max, unless you count TRob as a key piece (I don't). Push comes to shove, if we're still a tad over, wemaaaaaaybe have to give up GSmith as well, but that comes down to exactly where the cap falls and how adding a pick to the salary works, etc. I think we could keep him and get our 12th via MLE or something along those lines.

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    I've already addressed the Dwight at PF option.

    Summary: Dwight + TJones works better and cheaper than Asik + Dwight

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    If it's the 5 year super sized contract Dwight wants then we can easily do a sign and trade involving Asik. And if Asik is not enough we can throw in T-Rob.

    Can't. Under the new cba, players cannot get more benefits from a S&T. They will get what they would have otherwise gotten under a straight up signing, i.e., in this case, D12 would still only get his 4 yr deal.

  • thejohnnygold says 2 months ago

    Hmmmm...Cba=quantum physics for me so I will take your word for it. Obviously, no, gutting the roster is not an option in my opinion. It has been posited that you get the stars first and then find the role players--and I can't argue with that too much as time and again teams have done this successfully. I think it would take a season or two, but that is a viable plan. I am operating under the assumption that we can sign him without surrendering key pieces...if that's not the case then my stance might change.

    As for the 5 minutes at back-up for asik....that isn't at all what I was pushing for. More like 25 minutes or so at center with Dwight playing Pf most of that time. Keeping dwight on the floor is a good thing.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    @rocketrick

    Larry Coon's analysis, which I've read, is a tad misleading. Lots of fans like bimathug over at clutchfans (and Coon's protege in a way) knew that we couldn't clear that room to sign him without moving someone, but the idea was we would move TRob. Yes, to sign D12 to a max, we will have to move TRob for nothing (maybe S&T w/ LAL to give them TRob). Doing this means we would not have to waive GSmith or PBev or Parsons (who we would never waive). It was a bit funny to me that Coon would suggest we would have to waive Parsons, GSmith and PBev before contemplating the much more realistic scenario that we keep those 3 and just move TRob.

    We have $39M in guaranteed money. Add in D12's $20M and we're essentially at the cap...but move TRob and we'll be able to keep the aforementioned 3 players.

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble but just exactly how are the Rockets supposed to sign Dwight Howard, if he would even consider coming here which I think is very unlikely to begin with?

    According to the CBA guru, Larry Coon, even if the Rockets and Morey waived all the players they could, 8 total by the way, they still come up well short of the max that the Lakers can offer Howard. Oh, and the Lakers also can offer Howard a guaranteed 5th year, the Rockets (and everyone else) cannot. Under the best possible scenario (when you see some of the names being waived I don't think anyone is going to even say this is the best possible scenario), the Rockets could offer Howard a salary starting at $16.7 - $18.2 million. The Lakers can offer the maximum, something starting a bit over $20 million per year.

    So, for the Rockets to offer Howard something along the lines (according to Coon) of $16.7 million, the Rockets would have to waive: Chandler Parsons, Patrick Beverley, Greg Smith, Carlos Delfino, Francisco Garcia, James Anderson, Aaron Brooks and Ohlbrecht.

    This would leave the Rockets with (assuming Dwight Howard agrees to a paycut, etc and even wants to come to Houston, very doubtful in my opinion): Howard, Harden, Lin, Asik, T Jones, Motiejunas, T-Rob and Royce White. Further, Coon states the Rockets could only offer 5 new contracts at the league minimum, $490,180 each. And this would still leave 2 empty slots on the roster. One would be filled with the Rockets 2nd round draft pick this season, the other Coon did not elaborate on but I assume must either be a 2nd round draft pick or another league minimum player.

    So who's in for waiving Chandler Parsons and Patrick Beverley, even Greg Smith to make this happen? By the way, the Rockets would have to waive all of these players before they could even make their offer to Howard if I read the CBA rules correctly.

    Here's the link to Larry Coon's analysis of why Howard is unlikely to sign with the Rockets:

    http://cbafaq.com/blog/?p=181

    If it's the 5 year super sized contract Dwight wants then we can easily do a sign and trade involving Asik. And if Asik is not enough we can throw in T-Rob.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    Dwight has shown he can average 43 minutes per game in the playoffs if he needs to. Do you really want to spend 8m per year on a guy we only need for 5 minutes? Keeping in mind sometimes those minutes are just garbage time.

    It would be longer than that though right?

  • rocketrick says 2 months ago

    I'll chime in...My desired outcome is not a popular one--as it is atypical--but I would love to see Howard brought in to play both center and PF...When he came into the league it was unclear which position he would play (Draft Express) and I do think it could work while retaining Asik. Think back to the Memphis game--countering Gasol and Randolph with Asik and Howard. Meanwhile, they would have to pack the paint so hard to stop those guys from tearing things up we could shoot the equivalent of practice shots from three (hyperbole?). Spacing problems? maybe, but if you are guarding Howard in the post and Harden/Lin drives can you really afford to rotate off to defend the drive? I hope they do so we can watch a parade of Howard dunks and putbacks.

    This solidifies our center position as Asik and Howard can anchor that as well as giving us the dominant (although not stretch) PF we desire. Meanwhile, we have four PF's to choose from and develop/trade. It also affords us injury insurance. It gives us awesome line-up flexibility as far as going big and small. I get why everyone thinks we have to trade Asik in this scenario, but I disagree and think we are way better off keeping him.

    Further, this gives us a leg up over the OKC's, Miami's, SA's, and Denver's of the world as they do not have the ability to match up with a line-up like this (IMO).

    Just imagine Dwight posting up PF's all day, and dishing to a cutter or Asik when the double team comes, or to open three point shooters. Makes me smile. It would look like what Shaq used to do in his hey-day when no center cold body him up and keep him from bulling his way to the hoop. Smiling more...

    I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble but just exactly how are the Rockets supposed to sign Dwight Howard, if he would even consider coming here which I think is very unlikely to begin with?

    According to the CBA guru, Larry Coon, even if the Rockets and Morey waived all the players they could, 8 total by the way, they still come up well short of the max that the Lakers can offer Howard. Oh, and the Lakers also can offer Howard a guaranteed 5th year, the Rockets (and everyone else) cannot. Under the best possible scenario (when you see some of the names being waived I don't think anyone is going to even say this is the best possible scenario), the Rockets could offer Howard a salary starting at $16.7 - $18.2 million. The Lakers can offer the maximum, something starting a bit over $20 million per year.

    So, for the Rockets to offer Howard something along the lines (according to Coon) of $16.7 million, the Rockets would have to waive: Chandler Parsons, Patrick Beverley, Greg Smith, Carlos Delfino, Francisco Garcia, James Anderson, Aaron Brooks and Ohlbrecht.

    This would leave the Rockets with (assuming Dwight Howard agrees to a paycut, etc and even wants to come to Houston, very doubtful in my opinion): Howard, Harden, Lin, Asik, T Jones, Motiejunas, T-Rob and Royce White. Further, Coon states the Rockets could only offer 5 new contracts at the league minimum, $490,180 each. And this would still leave 2 empty slots on the roster. One would be filled with the Rockets 2nd round draft pick this season, the other Coon did not elaborate on but I assume must either be a 2nd round draft pick or another league minimum player.

    So who's in for waiving Chandler Parsons and Patrick Beverley, even Greg Smith to make this happen? By the way, the Rockets would have to waive all of these players before they could even make their offer to Howard if I read the CBA rules correctly.

    Here's the link to Larry Coon's analysis of why Howard is unlikely to sign with the Rockets:

    http://cbafaq.com/blog/?p=181
  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    Dwight has shown he can average 43 minutes per game in the playoffs if he needs to. Do you really want to spend 8m per year on a guy we only need for 5 minutes? Keeping in mind sometimes those minutes are just garbage time.

  • thejohnnygold says 2 months ago

    Yeah, the cycling of talent is something we may have to get used to. As fans, we are prone to get attached, but Morey's job must be devoid of such emotional attachment to do it well. As long as it nets positive returns I can live with it.

  • thejohnnygold says 2 months ago

    Good point about the passing....I know Dwight can hit the three point shooters as he did that well enough in Orlando...as for slipping a quick dish to asik.....that is questionable.

    2016, I think Howard would also do well with T. Jones. D-mo too (out of the post). I think he would get ample opportunity as in my super-hypothetical Howard would split time at center and PF about 50/50 depending on the match-ups. This allows Asik a little more rest. I don't think Howard would mind the switch as it is in name only--he will still be on the low block doing his thing. I think Howard just needs to be involved in the offense--either through inside-outside plays where he starts with the ball, on pick n rolls, or as a devastating finisher on fast breaks--to be happy. It seemed like early on in LA they wanted him to get his touches on his own by rebounding. He'll get those too.

    Trading Asik at the deadline is an option...we'll have had time to see how they work together, plus you never know what offers are out there. I think I still prefer keeping him as it gives us ridiculous depth at center.

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    We only have 14m cap space if we don't cut anyone (and yes, that's assuming we don't bring Delfino, Garcia or Brooks back) so if we want Dwight that already means we still have to make room. Lets say we make room by trading Thomas Robinson for a 1st, that's enough for Dwight, then we will still have to resign Lin and Parsons after 2015 by which will will have traded Asik already. Despite having traded Asik by then, resigning Lin and Parsons should be getting pretty close to the luxury tax (assuming they both get around 11m each), and time time to resign Beveley comes next after 2016. Then we have to worry about resigning D-Mo and Terrence Williams after 2017. My guess is we trade Beverley to make room (because the pg position is abundant with talent Morey can find for cheap like he did with Brooks, Alston, Lowry, Beverley ect.) but I'm sure Morey will still be acquiring young underrated talent, and the process of trading some to make room for others and stay under the luxury will be an endless cycle.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    You sure we wouldn't have the cap room? I think we might if we unloaded a young asset or two w/ Asik. That could easily net us back in return a player in the $12M-13M range, right?

    For example, if we gave up a pick, TRob and Asik to POR for LMA, would they take it? Or if we threw in a different, more enticing young asset? I think they would if they commit to rebuilding mode.

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    Having a huge guy posting up PF's all day is the recipe the Grizzlies are using. ZBo is not a center but he is much too big and strong for most powerforwards in todays league, and yet the Grizzlies still aren't a great offensive team. I think todays game is better designed for the stretch forward, and Dwight plays much better when complimented with one. I think Dwight and Terrence Jones would greatly compliment each other, and out rebounding the opposition especially on the offensive glass like we did the Grizzlies two nights ago will be a commonoccurrence. And if Terrence Jones ever becomes a Josh Smith caliber defender like some people in this forum claim he can be (I doubt it, but he willdefinitelybe above average) then we can be dominant on the defensive end too without being atypical.

    As for Asik, I say we keep him at least until the deadline, we should be able to get a very nice haul for him especially since he still has another year left on his contract (Morey says teams tend to pay more when the player isn't an expiring, and Carmelo Anthony was the exception not the rule). The crazy thing is that if we get Dwight via FA, we will still have enough valuable assets to trade for another star but we just won't have the cap room. What a nice problem to have: too much talent :D

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    @JG

    I think that would work pretty well and I would love to at least give it a try (if we were lucky enough to land Howard). But I also feel like this would only really work well if Howard (or Asik I guess) were particularly good passers from the post. They aren't, so I do worry a bit about TOs if they're passing to each other down in the low block or out to slightly more open (but not completely open) shooters.

    Also, do you think we could sell the idea of Howard playing at the PF position? I know he came into the league at that position, but if he's grown very happy playing the C and is unwilling (for whatever reason) to switch to the 4, I would imagine it could stifle the prospects of netting him in FA.

  • thejohnnygold says 2 months ago

    I'll chime in...My desired outcome is not a popular one--as it is atypical--but I would love to see Howard brought in to play both center and PF...When he came into the league it was unclear which position he would play (Draft Express) and I do think it could work while retaining Asik. Think back to the Memphis game--countering Gasol and Randolph with Asik and Howard. Meanwhile, they would have to pack the paint so hard to stop those guys from tearing things up we could shoot the equivalent of practice shots from three (hyperbole?). Spacing problems? maybe, but if you are guarding Howard in the post and Harden/Lin drives can you really afford to rotate off to defend the drive? I hope they do so we can watch a parade of Howard dunks and putbacks.

    This solidifies our center position as Asik and Howard can anchor that as well as giving us the dominant (although not stretch) PF we desire. Meanwhile, we have four PF's to choose from and develop/trade. It also affords us injury insurance. It gives us awesome line-up flexibility as far as going big and small. I get why everyone thinks we have to trade Asik in this scenario, but I disagree and think we are way better off keeping him.

    Further, this gives us a leg up over the OKC's, Miami's, SA's, and Denver's of the world as they do not have the ability to match up with a line-up like this (IMO).

    Just imagine Dwight posting up PF's all day, and dishing to a cutter or Asik when the double team comes, or to open three point shooters. Makes me smile. It would look like what Shaq used to do in his hey-day when no center cold body him up and keep him from bulling his way to the hoop. Smiling more...

  • feelingsupersonic says 2 months ago Don't get me wrong Rocketrick I am intrigued by the Gasol/Asik frontline as well. Saying that i believe the risk reward regarding Howard points to him being an obvious choice despite any negative effects with the youth movement.
  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    @phaketrash

    not to get off subject, yet get off subject :lol:stealing a little of your stuff :lol:this is what I meant in earlier conversations about the nba landscape changes all the time. it's to unpredictable........sh^t happens! this kobe thing may or may not lead to us landing D-12......I don't know. what I do know is luck favors the prepared. keeping options open as long as possible or until you land exactly the player you want is the best course of actions for us imo. we need another alpha dog not lassie :lol:sorry had to throw that in :lol:however I don't really want to rehatch the j-smith debate :lol:......just making a point

    Sure, I'm just saying having an asset that is a player is > having cap space as an asset. Taking on bad contracts is a nice supplement to a deal, but it is really player assets that a team covets. For example, the Harden trade did not require us to have ANY cap space. In fact, we shaved off a few million in that trade.

    So while the landscape may very well change, and we must be opportunistic, I'm just personally not convinced that having a massive amount of cap space is a better asset than having x player that other teams may want (and us using that cap space to sign that player in the first place).

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    Yeah, there seems to be a lot of love for both Dwight Howard and Josh Smith from separate (and sometimes similar) quarters in this forum. I just don't care for either player and don't believe either would be a good fit for the current Rockets roster. I'd kind of like to see an Asik and Pau Gasol frontline with Parsons, Lin and Harden and see where that takes us. By doing so the Rockets shouldn't be maxed out on their salary cap and would have more flexibility to make other improvements as the team develops. Plus Gasol is just a 1- or 2- year solution to our PF position until either 1 or more of our youngsters develops into a solid starter or we eventually use our current PF pieces for Gasol's eventual replacement.

    I don't think LAL is going to amnesty Pau at this point. They'd rather trade him, so working under that premise, I think Pau would max out our salary cap as he's a $19M bill. I guess it depends what we give up in return for him, but too many more pieces outside of say, TRob, and I walk away from that deal as it is simply a 1 yr rental.

  • rocketrick says 2 months ago

    You have an outstanding reputation rocketrick and you have been here longer than me so with all due respect I disagree on Howard. I could be wrong but before Howard's final year in Orlando he never had any problems with players, coaches or the front office right? By all accounts Howard is a pretty hard worker and spends a considerable amount of time staying in shape and improving his game if I am not mistaken? No real off the court problems to speak of correct?

    I agree with 2016 on this one but we went through a lot of Howard talk last summer and I was clear then with regards to my opinion on Howard. That was another subject that just would not end.

    Yeah, there seems to be a lot of love for both Dwight Howard and Josh Smith from separate (and sometimes similar) quarters in this forum. I just don't care for either player and don't believe either would be a good fit for the current Rockets roster. I'd kind of like to see an Asik and Pau Gasol frontline with Parsons, Lin and Harden and see where that takes us. By doing so the Rockets shouldn't be maxed out on their salary cap and would have more flexibility to make other improvements as the team develops. Plus Gasol is just a 1- or 2- year solution to our PF position until either 1 or more of our youngsters develops into a solid starter or we eventually use our current PF pieces for Gasol's eventual replacement.
  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    Dwight wants to stay in Hollywood for this.

    dwight-howard-kazaam-2_1345212416.jpg

  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    @phaketrash

    not to get off subject, yet get off subject :lol:stealing a little of your stuff :lol:this is what I meant in earlier conversations about the nba landscape changes all the time. it's to unpredictable........sh^t happens! this kobe thing may or may not lead to us landing D-12......I don't know. what I do know is luck favors the prepared. keeping options open as long as possible or until you land exactly the player you want is the best course of actions for us imo. we need another alpha dog not lassie :lol:sorry had to throw that in :lol:however I don't really want to rehatch the j-smith debate :lol:......just making a point

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    Yup, D12 is having one of his worst yrs since his rookie yr, and yet he still has 17 pts, 12+ rebounds (leading the league) and 2.4 blocks a game. The 17 pts is somewhat due to earlier in the season, when he wasn't yet fully healed up and not meshing w/ LAL at all yet. In April, he's averaging about 21 pts a game.

    I think Asik is great also, but D12 is a significant upgrade. Plus, Asik's contract is so favorable, we'd still be able to flip him for some good value stuff, Morey-style.

    D12's willingness to come here is the real question. I often hear the glamour and lights of LA really appeal to his dreams and goals lol.

  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    D-12 is the best center in the league........I love asik, but lets get real. what if asik grabbed even more boards, blocked even more shots and scored 25 points a game......wouldn't that be awesome. D-12 IS THAT PLAYER. personalities aside(which by the way I don't think would be a problem here) D-12 means contender status next year.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    Haha 2016, I swear I often see you sharing some of my points later on :P As I've often believed, bad attitudes are overplayed. It is a problem more so when the team is losing, but when that is happening, I mean...we're already losing! I don't know if happily losing together makes me, as a fan, that much more comfortable.

    I agree that while Dwight is immature, he isn't lockerroomcancer. Kobe and Dwight just have polar opposites in personalities. I mean, I imagine Kobe and Lebron wouldn't get along great either if they were on the same team, but Dwight and Lebron would. The latter two are kind of laid back, like to joke around, while Kobe is like "we don't need to be friends in real life." That's just how Kobe is and they rubbed each other the wrong way.

    But even so, they've come around. Howard's injuries have improved; we haven't seen drama from their lockerroom in awhile, and mind you, since the all star break, they are 18-8...even with all the injuries they've had (Nash out, Pau out, Artest out, Hill out, etc.) and a coaching change. Replicated over a whole season, that would have been a 50+ win season.

    Point is, even with personalities that were polar opposites, they eventually got it to work.

  • feelingsupersonic says 2 months ago You have an outstanding reputation rocketrick and you have been here longer than me so with all due respect I disagree on Howard. I could be wrong but before Howard's final year in Orlando he never had any problems with players, coaches or the front office right? By all accounts Howard is a pretty hard worker and spends a considerable amount of time staying in shape and improving his game if I am not mistaken? No real off the court problems to speak of correct?

    I agree with 2016 on this one but we went through a lot of Howard talk last summer and I was clear then with regards to my opinion on Howard. That was another subject that just would not end.
  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    People forget that Rodman was a problem in the locker on other teams, particularly the Spurs where he bumped heads with David Robinson all the time. And even though Kobe and Shaq weren't really headcases they also bumped heads all the time. When it comes down to it only one thing matters, and that's the will to win--something Dwight has. Personally I think Dwight will respect everyone in Houston, we have alot of respectable guys, but even if he doesn't we will all be unified by our will to win. Not to mention Dwight will probably be very appreciative of the fact we will feed him more easy baskets than he has ever been fed in his life, just look at how many times we feed Asik who can't even catch and routinely fails to finish while he's right under the basketlol. Asik's per 36 was 7.6ppg in Chicago and it's 12.2ppg in Houston, that's a 62% increase. I imagine Dwight will be around a 27ppg guy in Houston and he will be happier than Christopher Columbus with speedboats.

  • rocketrick says 2 months ago

    I think fans in general tend to make way too big of a deal about the "attitude" of players. Rodman and Artest are two of the biggest headcases we have ever seen in the league, and they are also winners of the DPoY award--something Dwight also has in common. Say what you want about Dwight's attitude, but he works hard and wins basketball games. That year he led the Magic past the 66 win Cavs was incredible.Maybe Dwight was an ass to imply he didn't have much to work with in Orlando but lets be honest--he didn't.I highly doubt hewill have any qualms about not having enough help inHouston, if he comes here Houston won't have a problem--Houston will be the problem.

    I have to disagree with you on that score. I believe building team chemistry and camaderie is a very difficult thing to do to begin with, and when a "bad egg", so to speak, is brought into the lockerroom, that tends to be very disrupting to the goals of the team.

    I'm surprised that some are willing to give Howard a pass by stating more or less that Kobe is just difficult to get along with. Yet, Kobe is the leader of this team, and in my mind he was trying to get Howard to conform more to the team concept. Instead Howard just seems to constantly rebel and repel every step of the way.

    Attitude goes a very long way in my opinion in the eventual failure or success of an individual, organization, team, etc. How can the concept of team be developed at the same time there are one or two players constantly with attitude issues? I think Richards point about MWP and Rodman holds water because they were much more disruptive to the opposing team than to their own lockerroom chemistry.
  • Richards says 2 months ago

    No question D12, MWP, and Rodman are talented and great players.

    MWP and Rodman bullied other teams. They are "badder" than D12 but they don't disrupt their own team and happy to be a second fiddle.

    D12 is a biggest diva. He wants to pick his own coach, he wants offense to go through him. That worry me a lot. I am not sure he will give up money or share the fame with others to chase the ring like Lebron does.

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    I think fans in general tend to make way too big of a deal about the "attitude" of players. Rodman and Artest are two of the biggest headcases we have ever seen in the league, and they are also winners of the DPoY award--something Dwight also has in common. Say what you want about Dwight's attitude, but he works hard and wins basketball games. That year he led the Magic past the 66 win Cavs was incredible.Maybe Dwight was an ass to imply he didn't have much to work with in Orlando but lets be honest--he didn't.I highly doubt hewill have any qualms about not having enough help inHouston, if he comes here Houston won't have a problem--Houston will be the problem.

  • Cooper says 2 months ago Dwight saying the magic had players nobody wanted isn't completely off base, the second best player on the team they went to the ecf with was hedo turkoglu and look where they're at now in wins. It wasn't the right way to say it or even really the right thing to say but doesn't mean it's not true.
  • Richards says 2 months ago

    Howard is a great talent. Nothing more, nothing less.

    He never proof that he was a good teammate. Many times he whined and blamed on others (teammate, coaches, and organization).

    Did you all remember Howard saying his Magic teammates are bunch of players nobody wanted. He pushed SVG out. Now he is holding Lakers hostage.

    Do you really think he will change? I don't think it is a good idea to buy a cancer.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 2 months ago

    The Kobe injury gives Dwight the excuse he needs to leave and save face(or whatever face he has left).

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    I think there was like 99.9% chance Dwight was staying in L.A. until Kobe tore his achilles, but now I'm wondering if Kobe's injury changes things. Dwight loves L.A. but does he love it enough to miss the playoffs two seasons in a row?

  • Rahat Huq says 2 months ago

    Then why was Howard and Kobe at odds for most of the season?

    Total personality clash. Kobe couldn't even get along with Shaq, who was pretty much just a normal dude and had no problems with anyone else (Lebron, Penny Hardaway etc.).

  • rocketrick says 2 months ago

    I have to disagree. I think he's immature and broods, but he's also an unquestionable talent and not that bad. I don't worry too much about a bad personality when the organization/structure in place is good. Besides, winning tends to get rid of whiny personalities. They tend to manifest when you'relosing and frustrated...but if we're already losing, I tend to care less about his antics haha.

    Last I checked, the Lakers had a pretty strong organization in place and Dwight Howard seemingly has enjoyed blowing things up there. That's what he does best, well that and missing free throws at a staggering rate, I suppose.
  • rocketrick says 2 months ago Meant to say in that last paragraph that the Lakers will go ahead and feed the hand that bites them.........
  • rocketrick says 2 months ago

    1. Why isn't he coming?
    2. Why would we not want him? With all due respect to Omer, a good game for him is pretty much a bad game for Howard. More importantly, those catches he fumbles off the pick&roll are Howard dunks.
    3. "Especially at only 8 and change per." - If you can flip Omer for something else, then that's pretty good allocation of your money.
    4. Second fiddle - I believe he left Orlando so that he wouldn't have to be "The Man." He wants a 1a/1b situation.

    Then why was Howard and Kobe at odds for most of the season? And why are the Lakers with Kobe, Steve Nash, Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, Ron Artest (or the other dude he likes to call himself) are struggling to even make the playoffs? I put a big part of the blame on Dwight Howard.

    Good point though about all the drops at the bucket by Omer. I do believe more time off-season together will do wonders though. If Hakeem is able to teach certain players new offensive moves, why can't he give Omer some insight into becoming more successful at receiving the pass and finishing at the hoop. Omer had a couple of monster dunks last night against Randolph and Gasol so he certainly is capable.

    Lastly though, why wouldn't the Lakers go ahead and bite the hand that feeds them and basically turn the keys of the franchise over to Dwight Howard especially now that Kobe is going to miss some or a good portion of next season? I expect to see a major shuffle of the roster, perhaps even another coaching change, whatever it takes to convince Howard he is the man now in LA LA land. Don't forget, LA holds the cards on paying Howard max money for 5 years, nobody else in the NBA universe can come close to matching that. Howard in my opinion is greedy, he wants it all, the rings (without having to work for it) and the money and the glory.
  • Rahat Huq says 2 months ago

    I just want to be perfectly clear: Dwight. Howard. Is. NOT. Coming. To Houston.

    Ok? Let it go.

    Aside from that. We probably shouldn't want him all that much. Asik has done nothing but improve since the second he got here. There's no reason at all to not want to see how far he can go. Especially at only 8 and change per. And no, Dwight and Omer can't work on the same team. Not in today's NBA. But even if they could, do you really think Howard is going to be comfortable just tucking in as second fiddle on Harden's team? Because I really, really don't. Look, I want another superstar as much as anyone, but Dwight is not even close to an ideal fit. And CP3 isn't leaving the Clippers.

    Josh Smith. Paul Milsap. Earl Clark. David West. Brandon Jennings. All more affordable. All better fits.

    1. Why isn't he coming?

    2. Why would we not want him? With all due respect to Omer, a good game for him is pretty much a bad game for Howard. More importantly, those catches he fumbles off the pick&roll are Howard dunks.

    3. "Especially at only 8 and change per." - If you can flip Omer for something else, then that's pretty good allocation of your money.

    4. Second fiddle - I believe he left Orlando so that he wouldn't have to be "The Man." He wants a 1a/1b situation.

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    Dwight Howard is nothing but a cancer to a team and it's organization. I want nothing to do with the world's largest crybaby.

    I have to disagree. I think he's immature and broods, but he's also an unquestionable talent and not that bad. I don't worry too much about a bad personality when the organization/structure in place is good. Besides, winning tends to get rid of whiny personalities. They tend to manifest when you'relosing and frustrated...but if we're already losing, I tend to care less about his antics haha.

  • rocketrick says 2 months ago

    I'm sure he means it in a good way! Rocking out on the Rockets boat! I think D12 would be great on this team. Would be ecstatic if we got him.

    Dwight Howard is nothing but a cancer to a team and it's organization. I want nothing to do with the world's largest crybaby.
  • rocketrick says 2 months ago Plus Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, perhaps Ersan Ilyasova, a number of other players that are quite likely on Morey's radar that we have not even considered.
  • mannythegoat says 2 months ago

    I just want to be perfectly clear: Dwight. Howard. Is. NOT. Coming. To Houston.

    Ok? Let it go.

    Aside from that. We probably shouldn't want him all that much. Asik has done nothing but improve since the second he got here. There's no reason at all to not want to see how far he can go. Especially at only 8 and change per. And no, Dwight and Omer can't work on the same team. Not in today's NBA. But even if they could, do you really think Howard is going to be comfortable just tucking in as second fiddle on Harden's team? Because I really, really don't. Look, I want another superstar as much as anyone, but Dwight is not even close to an ideal fit. And CP3 isn't leaving the Clippers.

    Josh Smith. Paul Milsap. Earl Clark. David West. Brandon Jennings. All more affordable. All better fits.
  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    I'm sure he means it in a good way! Rocking out on the Rockets boat! I think D12 would be great on this team. Would be ecstatic if we got him.

  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    Yeah. Let him come and rock our boat. :D

    why would he rock our boat? :mellow:

  • Richards says 2 months ago

    THE ROCKETS :rolleyes:

    Yeah. Let him come and rock our boat. :D

  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    Who want the guy who jump ship twice?

    THE ROCKETS :rolleyes:

  • Richards says 2 months ago

    Who want the guy who jump ship twice?

  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago



    Nostradamus Says: Dwight leaves L.A., either for Houston or Dallas, Kobe takes his sweet time in coming back, the Lakers tank the heck out of next season, they draft the top pick the next year (that player and will be to Adam Silver what Patrick Ewing was to David Stern; conspiracy theories will abound) and begin a new dynasty a la the 1999 Spurs.

    You read it here first.

    hey Jeby....errr...Nostradamus how about some lotto numbers for tonite? :lol:funny thing is my magic 8 ball said the same thing :lol:however this could very well come to pass

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    New post: More thoughts on Kobe, Howard implications
    By: rahat huq

    The irony of Bryant is that he's probably the most overrated player in basketball history, or, at the least, in modern history. It's thearduousness of his supporters (in their 'count the rings' illogicalities) which actually takes away from a proper appreciation of what the man meant to this sport. When he's talked about as the 'greatest ever' and protected of his flaws, it dampens the certitude of the stuff that put him amongst the greatest. He wasn't the best. But he was the most committed and dedicated to his craft, perhaps ever. He was an artist who put supreme diligence to the honing of his skill. He approached his trade in a manner not humanly possible. For that we can only revere him.

    Excellent paragraph in particular. I think this is very true in a lot of contexts.

  • Jeby says 2 months ago

    Nostradamus Says: Dwight leaves L.A., either for Houston or Dallas, Kobe takes his sweet time in coming back, the Lakers tank the heck out of next season, they draft the top pick the next year (that player and will be to Adam Silver what Patrick Ewing was to David Stern; conspiracy theories will abound) and begin a new dynasty a la the 1999 Spurs.

    You read it here first.
  • Red94 says 2 months ago New post: More thoughts on Kobe, Howard implications
    By: rahat huq

    When I first sat down to write this, at 6AM this morning, the shock from last night had still not worn off.  I moved onto other priorities and in the twelve hours since, have had some time to reflect and understand my emotions.

    A reader mentioned that upon hearing the news, he really felt nothing.  He speculated that this was due to his age.  I think he was right on point.

    I'm 28 years old.  I started watching the NBA in 1993 when I was 8.  Jordan was gone.  I didn't even really appreciate Hakeem.  When Jordan came back and finished out, I still really didn't think much of it.  I hadn't been invested as a spectator from the start of his career.



    In my viewing life, the "ultra-greats"--those guys you could put in a top-10/top-15 of all-time discussion--who I've seen from start to finish were Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, and Kobe.  The former 3, while still effective, all faded into supporting roles towards their later years (or in Shaq's case into a complete caricature of himself on TNT.)  Duncan and Garnett obviously are still playing.  The greats regarding whom I was not invested (due to my age and not having seen them from the start) were the likes of Hakeem and Barkley.  They too faded but they too had going away tours.  You knew it was coming.

    The Kobe news hits so hard because it represents the fall of the most iconic player of my childhood's generation, at his supreme peak, completely unwarned.  There was no tour; we didn't see it coming; it just happened.  In the midst of what might have been his greatest season ever.  It's just shock.  Almost like the assassination of a President.

    You look back on Bryant's career with amazement.  Consider: his 'peers', essentially, were Vince Carter, Allen Iverson, and Tracy McGrady, the latter two of whom now reside in China, with the former being considered a 'surprise' for his contributions as a role-player.  Bryant, at 34, will likely again make the All-NBA team.

    I watched every minute of that game live and he actually got injured two other times, earlier on.  After "the injury", it still didn't click.  You saw him limping back to the bench after those two free throws but you knew he'd just come right back in later on.  You saw it happen, something that, if it happened to anyone else, you'd immediately conceptualize the severity, but with Bryant, you just assumed it wasn't serious.  There is no comparison between an injury and death.  But a quote from Notorious B.I.G. regarding Tupac's death comes to mind:

    Quote:

    so when they were like he got shot i was like again? ya know what im saying hes always getting shot or shot at. he gonna pull through this one again make a few records about it and its gonna be over ya know what im saying? but when he died i was just like wow..

    The irony of Bryant is that he's probably the most overrated player in basketball history, or, at the least, in modern history.  It's the arduousness of his supporters (in their 'count the rings' illogicalities) which actually takes away from a proper appreciation of what the man meant to this sport.  When he's talked about as the 'greatest ever' and protected of his flaws, it dampens the certitude of the stuff that put him amongst the greatest.  He wasn't the best.  But he was the most committed and dedicated to his craft, perhaps ever.  He was an artist who put supreme diligence to the honing of his skill.  He approached his trade in a manner not humanly possible.  For that we can only revere him.

    This reads like an obituary but Kobe will be back.  I wish it weren't the case.  Just like I wish Jordan hadn't come back in Washington.  He'll work his tail off in rehab and probably crack 20 points per game once again, just on the strength of his fundamentals.  But I don't want that.  I don't want to tarnish the memory of my generation's icon.  I want to see him go out on top, and I think, the way he had been playing, were he to hang it up today, it would be, in a way, leaving ontop.

    **

    The focus now turns to the Lakers who will have to move on to life after Kobe.  Will Dwight Howard stick around?  They had to run their best player into the ground just to squeak into the 8th; that team will surely be even worse next year upon Bryant's return.

    For Howard, it now becomes a clear choice: winning vs. money.  Houston now represents his most viable option to win a championship.  Will he take the 5th year with L.A. or will he bolt?  Things now become much more interesting.
  • thenit says 2 months ago

    there will be plenty of shots, so D12 and Pau will get in rhytm. It will be lethal.

  • thenit says 2 months ago

    They just need steve blake to feed the towers. All this is based on gut feeling :)

  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    Oh I hope so. There are soooo many good reasons for Dwight to come to HTown. Do it Dwight, do it. I only wonder if we'd keep Asik or not...I mean, go for Dwight regardless, but that becomes interesting.

    our chances of d-12 coming here just improved (IMO)

  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    I think they will do fine even without Nash, Pau looked good last night and D12 will love being THE MAN without being in kobe's shadow

    but who's going to man the remaining positions?

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    we have already gotten into the money issues and know it's not 30 mil, however that aside......whether kobe is able to come back as the same player or not he is still in the twilight years of his career. sure hehas still beenthe mamba, but will he still be the mamba and for how long. nash clearly is only a shell of the player he once was and he is at odds with d-12. gasol's future is unset. d-12 and the coach are clearly at odds and the rest of the band of players are misfits at best......I agree he might like LA, but has a lot to weigh and the see saw appears to be leaning more and more the other way

    Oh I hope so. There are soooo many good reasons for Dwight to come to HTown. Do it Dwight, do it. I only wonder if we'd keep Asik or not...I mean, go for Dwight regardless, but that becomes interesting.

  • thenit says 2 months ago

    I think they will do fine even without Nash, Pau looked good last night and D12 will love being THE MAN without being in kobe's shadow

  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    It wouldn't surprise me if Pau and Howard becomse the Twin Towers and dominates down low and gets to the NBA finals and win it if Nash can come back.

    I disagree.....nash is not the same player he once was. in addition.....without kobe, the fact the lakers have no bench and the lack speed and quickness at the wing positions probably means even if they make the playoffs and that's abig IF, they will be toast in the first roundagainst any top team in the west

  • thenit says 2 months ago

    It wouldn't surprise me if Pau and Howard becomse the Twin Towers and dominates down low and gets to the NBA finals and win it if Nash can come back.

  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    That and $30M extra dollars :P More importantly, I think Dwight really enjoys being in LAL. Now he'd be the de factor center of attention...I don't think that is worse, not playing under Kobe's shadow and critiques for most of the season.

    we have already gotten into the money issues and know it's not 30 mil, however that aside......whether kobe is able to come back as the same player or not he is still in the twilight years of his career. sure hehas still beenthe mamba, but will he still be the mamba and for how long. nash clearly is only a shell of the player he once was and he is at odds with d-12. gasol's future is unset. d-12 and the coach are clearly at odds and the rest of the band of players are misfits at best......I agree he might like LA, but has a lot to weigh and the see saw appears to be leaning more and more the other way

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    problem for the lakers FO is will that be enough to convince d-12 to hang aroung

    That and $30M extra dollars :P More importantly, I think Dwight really enjoys being in LAL. Now he'd be the de factor center of attention...I don't think that is worse, not playing under Kobe's shadow and critiques for most of the season.

  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    hmm, maybe no amnesty and maybe not out all season.

    http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9167718/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-6-9-months-achilles-surgery

    That seems like good news. Sounds like we'd see him by all star break!

    problem for the lakers FO is will that be enough to convince d-12 to hang aroung

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    hmm, maybe no amnesty and maybe not out all season.

    http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9167718/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-6-9-months-achilles-surgery

    That seems like good news. Sounds like we'd see him by all star break!

  • kevingan says 2 months ago

    I was also watching, I was also in shock. I can't say I loved his game--too selfish too often, when he knew the right way to play--but his drive to win is undeniable, his work ethic second to none, and he is a great, gifted athlete. So I'm very sad to see this happen.

    In a way, though, I find it a heroic way to go out: he was carrying a mediocre team into the playoffs exactly as he'd promised, and performing at an unbelievable level; the game before this one has to be on the list of anyone's greatest games ever. Yes, it was too many minutes, but that's why he was heroic, and he fell in battle, as heroes always do in the end. I actually think this season and the way it's ended for him makes him a genuine legend: before he was a great player, but now he's a tragic hero.

    Of course, if anyone could come back and still do great work at the age of 36, it would be Kobe....in a way, though, for the reasons I've written, I'd almost prefer that this be the end.

    In any case, good luck, Kobe: you made me a believer!

  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    Los Angeles Lakers Team Salary
    Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/los-angeles-lakers-team-salary#0sw3MCKcQJhgXUGz.99

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    They are 41mill over now, take away Kobe's 30 and they are still 10mill over, I'm fairly certain that's still in the tax. Plus Howard's paus and mwps Nash's salarys will all increase.

    Depends on who you think they'll actually renew. They don't have to bring Devin Ebanks back, and Chris Duhon's contract is non-guaranteed. Jamison's and Clark's contracts are done too. They only have $68M guaranteed next season. Take away Kobe's $30M, and they are at $38M...plus Howard's ~$20M and they are back at $58M. Of course, they'll have to renew some and sign some scrubs to get to a 12 man roster, but they don't necessarily have to be over the tax at all.

    Pau and Nash's salaries BARELY increase. Like a few hundred thousand combined. Any amount over the luxury tax they shave off is an exponentially different amount, and makes spending some of it back much more doable.

  • Cooper says 2 months ago They are 41mill over now, take away Kobe's 30 and they are still 10mill over, I'm fairly certain that's still in the tax. Plus Howard's paus and mwps Nash's salarys will all increase.
  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    Even with amnestying Kobe they have no cap space, it's not worth the backlash

    This is true, but it'd make using MLEs and the like more palpable as it would not be over the luxury tax yet. $80M is a LOT of money.

  • Cooper says 2 months ago Even with amnestying Kobe they have no cap space, it's not worth the backlash
  • rockets best fan says 2 months ago

    sadness, shock, are my two biggest emotions. no one can deny what the man has been over his career. kobe is a warrior plain and simple. it always saddens me to see a warrior go down. kobe has been successful in avoiding this type of stuffin his career, but like feelingsupersonic said and I concur with.....he was playing to many minutes.....he's not superhuman. you play with fire you get burned. I wanted to see the lakers fail. but not like this. it does however change the landscape for the lakers this off season. the problems are mounting by the day for the lakers......can't wait till I see the fallout :P

  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    I imagine if Kobe isn't with the Lakers next year because of some decision by Buss and their front office there will be a revolt in Los Angeles and the suits know that. I think he will be back but won't consistently be the factor he once was.

    I too think there would be a mini-revolt, and that by itself is why they might not do it, but that revolt is an irrational one. Technically, it changes nothing, so I am not sure why fans are upset. Kobe still gets paid his money, fans now get a better team as LAL saves on $80M, and Kobe comes back, at a discount, a yr later, which makes their team even better! Assuming he was going to be out for all of next season anyways, or most of it, and that Kobe actually agrees to this (I think he has to be okay with it).

    I don't see the rational reason why it'd be the wrong move.

  • Jeby says 2 months ago

    I've never felt so conflicted about an athlete before.

    Kobe Bryant is my least favorite personality in all of professional sports. I've rooted against him in every game he has ever played (my dad is a Celtics fan, so I inherited some sports hate). I'm convinced that for much of his career, he has been protected by the league's vested economic interest in his (Lakers) success--there hasn't been a player since Jordan that opponents tried so hard *not* to foul, giving him the space he needs to pull off his countless heroic, infuriating jumpers.

    At the same time, his work ethic, fitness and commitment to winning are undeniable. If he began his career in a Rockets jersey, he would probably be my favorite player by now. He works and competes the way that every fan wishes every player on their team would do. It's nice to think that things go right for people who do right thing. We want sports to reflect what we hope is true in our own lives--that hard work equals success. That fickle fate won't destroy our dreams. Kobe's ability to defy his age through relentless work was validation of that hope.

    Last night, with poetic cruelty, Kobe's Achilles' tendon proved how naive that hope can be.
  • feelingsupersonic says 2 months ago I imagine if Kobe isn't with the Lakers next year because of some decision by Buss and their front office there will be a revolt in Los Angeles and the suits know that. I think he will be back but won't consistently be the factor he once was.
  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    I think FS makes a good point on why I have such a strong emotional reaction to Kobe's demise. I am definitely on the younger side and grew up watching him. I have always appreciated how hard he worked, and of course the natural talent he had, but really how hard he worked! His training programs are legen...wait for it...

    The stories of his training programs are legendary.Six-hour shooting sessions in the middle of the night. Three-hour bike rides or swim workouts before practice.

    I mean, the guy fights, and even now, I am pretty sure he'll have the will to fight through this and come back at 35. But for LAL ramifications, I don't think it is so black and white that they won't amnesty him.

    If the injury is bad and he is out for ALL of next season (instead of him healing fast and being ready by the end of all star break), I think amnestying him might make the most sense. I mean, emotionally it is a hit, so they'd have to discuss it with him. But even for Kobe it just makes more sense. He still takes home the $30M. No other team will take him if he is out all of next season, and even if they did, his contract ends at the end of the season (and he can essentially refuse to play by saying he's still rehabbing). Then bam, sign him to the MLE or something for his comeback. LAL would besoooo much more dangerous, and they would save $80M off their payroll for next yr. Absurd. They could try to get equal value back for Pauif they decided to move him (or whatever equal value is for him) since they aren't dealing him under the gun now. Re-sign Dwight easily and sign some other players as well.

    It is just...will they incur the wrath of their fans by amnestying Kobe. Kobe would not suit up w/ another team in the interim, and would still come back, at a great discount, which helps the franchise. Kobe still gets his $30M, but LAL saves $50M out of the $80M they would have otherwise had to pay.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 2 months ago

    Those Suns never had Dwight. I think a fully healthy Dwight and that's why I said Nash had to be healthy. I don't know if he'll ever be again. But Dwight at full strength is deadly. They would have the room to add a Toney Allen, Mayo, lots of other guys. They would retool their roster to fit D'Antoni's system. They'll make the playoffs if they amnesty Kobe and trade Pau. They could get some PFs from us for Pau. Other teams would want Pau as well. Probably not 65, more like 57-60.

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    https://twitter.com/MySportsLegion/status/323072154423926785/photo/1

  • Cooper says 2 months ago Kobe will be back next year, he's not going out like this and there is a zero percent chance they amnesty him.
  • PKM says 2 months ago

    Here's just a few points I thought I'd make.

    Two things can happen....

    1) The Lakers amnesty Kobe, trade Pau, re-sign Dwight, pick up Mayo/other guys who can do well in D'Antoni's system and reload and win 65 games next year(assuming Nash stays healthy).

    2) The Lakers hang onto Kobe, Dwight leaves to Dallas or Houston(he has a plausible excuse now). Kobe doesn't come back until late next year or the year after. The Lakers contend for the 6th spot(if Nash stays healthy) or miss out on the playoffs again(if Nash isn't). They won't have any salary cap room to pick anybody up unless they amnesty Kobe.

    65 wins? The SSOL Suns at their peak never won 65 games, and you think a team of Dwight Howard, a half-dead Nash, and a bunch of other random dudes can make a 65 win team? That's ridiculous.

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    What happens if Kobe retires? Does he still get that last year of his salary?

  • timetodienow1234567 says 2 months ago

    Here's just a few points I thought I'd make.

    Two things can happen....

    1) The Lakers amnesty Kobe, trade Pau, re-sign Dwight, pick up Mayo/other guys who can do well in D'Antoni's system and reload and win 65 games next year(assuming Nash stays healthy).

    2) The Lakers hang onto Kobe, Dwight leaves to Dallas or Houston(he has a plausible excuse now). Kobe doesn't come back until late next year or the year after. The Lakers contend for the 6th spot(if Nash stays healthy) or miss out on the playoffs again(if Nash isn't). They won't have any salary cap room to pick anybody up unless they amnesty Kobe.

  • Rahat Huq says 2 months ago

    I personally am not moved very much by Kobe's injury, maybe it is because of my age but I came up watching Hakeem and the guys in the 80's and early 90's. I imagine for some of you younger guys the end of Kobe's career is the end of an era if you will. It is definitely unfortunate for the NBA to lose some star power but when you play with fire you gonna get burned. He played too many minutes plain and simple, about 47 the last dozen games. Tip of the hat to the hardest working man in the Association but this show goes on. I am more interested in the repercussions. How does this effect the Lakers' front office strategy? How does the landscape in the Western Conference change next year?

    That's a good point. I'm 28. I only watched the tail end of Jordan and Hakeem's careers. (post 30's.) The top-15 all time caliber stars I've seen from start to finish are Garnett, Duncan, Shaq, and Kobe. The difference here is how sudden it was. Those first 3 guys all have been on a steady decline whereas Bryant may have just had his best season ever.

  • feelingsupersonic says 2 months ago I personally am not moved very much by Kobe's injury, maybe it is because of my age but I came up watching Hakeem and the guys in the 80's and early 90's. I imagine for some of you younger guys the end of Kobe's career is the end of an era if you will. It is definitely unfortunate for the NBA to lose some star power but when you play with fire you gonna get burned. He played too many minutes plain and simple, about 47 a game the last half dozen games. Tip of the hat to the hardest working man in the Association but this show goes on. I am more interested in the repercussions. How does this effect the Lakers' front office strategy? How does the landscape in the Western Conference change next year?
  • phaketrash says 2 months ago

    I had the same reactions as you Rahat. I never thought I liked Kobe that much, though I always respected his game, his attitude, his work ethic and drive. Wow, that sure sounds like Ishould like the guy, and tonight showed me I definitely do. I am in shock that he might be done...I'm sad if he is just done for this season!...much less his whole career. One of the best track records when it comes to health/avoiding injuries, but it finally got him.

    A legend of a player who is a tough cat. He'd play through that injury if he physically could haha. Will be missed.

  • 2016Champions says 2 months ago

    He was already talking about possible retirement, this might actually be it. One of the greatest of all time, a real cool cat and a real hard worker.

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