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The Red94 Podcast: On Parsons, Rondo

In today’s episode, Forrest Walker and I break down the Parsons decision; the Rajon Rondo trade rumors are also heavily featured.


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Total comments: 74
  • thejohnnygold says 3 months ago

    I don't mean to speak on KDO's behalf, but I think the point he was trying to get across is that Rondo, as the PG, would have the ball in his hands more often than say a D12 in the final 2 minutes, making it easier for the opponent to employ "hack a Rondo" without it actually being an intentional foul, if any of that makes sense.

    In certain situations, it might be difficult for the Rockets to have both Rondo and D12 on the floor simultaneously in the final 2 minutes.

    But again, Harden does have the special ability of isolation plays.............which would also keep the ball out of the hands of D12 and Rondo and allow them to stay on the floor, etc.

    Personally, I think a lot of this stuff is hocus-pocus. Just put your best 5 on the court and let them duke it out.

    I get that....it seems I continue to suffer from the same problem that plagued me in math growing up--I don't show all my work. I don't write down the steps I think are obvious.

    I am operating under the assumption that Rondo does not have to hold the ball or direct the offense during this time. I know people think he is completely incompetent shooting, but he hits 40% of his mid-range overall and is +50% from certain spots. In 2012-3 he was a +50% shooter from inside the arc excluding baseline jumpers. The point is, he can play off the ball as a spot up shooter. Teams will test him by helping off of him. That is fine. I'm sure Houston can figure out ways to burn people who do this.

    I am also presuming that our defense is going to be better. I get that people want to bash our defense. That was last season--it's over. Let it go. The coaches, players, and front office all saw it. They get paid tons of money to observe and adapt to this stuff--not bury their heads in the sand. Bev, Ariza, and Howard is 3 out of 5 defensively gifted players. Jones/D-Mo have the ability and just need to get over the mental mistakes. Harden will do better. It's going to happen. I think it is safe to assume and operate under this premise moving forward.

    I also agree with your last statement, RR. The stats are what they are....but each game is unique.

  • slick shoes says 3 months ago

    one thing that some posters are overlooking is Rondo already has a ring. he knows how to handle himself at crunch time. YES he can absolutely be part of a championship team..............any questions?

    GET BUCKETS!!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE-R590qk40

  • rockets best fan says 3 months ago

    one thing that some posters are overlooking is Rondo already has a ring. he knows how to handle himself at crunch time. YES he can absolutely be part of a championship team..............any questions?

  • kdo says 3 months ago

    I really enjoy the discussion on stats and probabilities, I'm glad the people on this forum are math literate.

    In any case, the only point I was trying to make is that "hack-a-whoever" is exploited because our offence to defense differential is high...in other words our defense sucks.

    If our defense improves beyond the threshold that it offsets the hacking exploitation, it then really becomes a moot point whether someone is good or terrible at free throws.

    "Hack-a-whoever" is effective against Houston because coaches see it as nullifying our strong offense, but at the same time exploiting a weak defense.

    Improve our defense, and any team that continues to attempt the silly hacking will inevitably pay.

  • slick shoes says 3 months ago

    Thanks for confirming. I think that if Rondo joins us it will be all right. I have no doubt we will lose a game or two or even three to missed free throws and that some people will use that as evidence against having them....which would mean ignoring the other 58+ wins we got with them.

    I have a pretty good feeling that in that situation, we give the ball to Harden KNOWING that they are going to intentionally foul.

    EDIT: Per your link JG:

    "Away-From-The-Play Foul:
    Once the game clock reaches 2:00 in the fourth period or 2:00 of overtime periods, any defensive foul prior to the ball being released during a throw-in shall be penalized with one free throw by any player in the game and retaining the ball at the same spot. Also during this time, the same penalty would apply if a defender takes a foul against an offensive player who is not part of the action. This is to prevent teams from fouling players who are not the best free throw shooters as a strategy to gain an advantage in the critical part of a game
    "

    Which brings me back to us inbouding (or attempting to) to Harden/a high % FT shooter.

  • Doug says 3 months ago

    Rondo has shoots free throws at a rate of 63% and 65% over the last two years, which is at his career percentage of 62%. By fouling Rondo, the expected points per possession is 1.24 (even assuming he hits free throws only at his career percentage, rather than what he has done over the past two years). That means, if we got Rondo, and teams were fouling him, we’d score points at an insanely high rate per possession. It would essentially be like we were the best offense in the league and we would then get to play set defense every time down the floor.

    The fallacy people are making is to assume that because someone hits free throws at a poor rate relative to others, trips to the free throw line for that player are a bad percentage play. That line of reasoning ignores how incredibly efficient taking free throws are. That’s one of the reasons Harden is such an excellent player.

  • rocketrick says 3 months ago I don't mean to speak on KDO's behalf, but I think the point he was trying to get across is that Rondo, as the PG, would have the ball in his hands more often than say a D12 in the final 2 minutes, making it easier for the opponent to employ "hack a Rondo" without it actually being an intentional foul, if any of that makes sense.

    In certain situations, it might be difficult for the Rockets to have both Rondo and D12 on the floor simultaneously in the final 2 minutes.

    But again, Harden does have the special ability of isolation plays.............which would also keep the ball out of the hands of D12 and Rondo and allow them to stay on the floor, etc.

    Personally, I think a lot of this stuff is hocus-pocus. Just put your best 5 on the court and let them duke it out.
  • thejohnnygold says 3 months ago

    @JG/slick shoes

    a team can only choose theFT shooter if the opposing team intentionally fouls a player without the ball.

    Thanks for confirming. I think that if Rondo joins us it will be all right. I have no doubt we will lose a game or two or even three to missed free throws and that some people will use that as evidence against having them....which would mean ignoring the other 58+ wins we got with them.

  • rockets best fan says 3 months ago

    @JG/slick shoes

    a team can only choose theFT shooter if the opposing team intentionally fouls a player without the ball.

  • thejohnnygold says 3 months ago

    @RocketRick--you are obviously correct, sir. My mistake.

    @Doug--good points.

    @Slick shoes--are you sure anyone can take the free throws? I know possession is returned, but I can't find anything about picking the shooter of our choice. Official Rule Book

    Regarding the pursuit of Love/Rondo, I agree with slick shoes. Both teams are determined to see this through to the bitter end. They want king's ransoms (which is fine), but I don't think Morey will pay one. If there was still 3 years on their contracts--maybe so. I think we will wait until the dust settles on this one, or until the cost goes down--if it does at all.

    I could see Jordan trying to swing a deal that nets him Rondo. A Rondo/Stephenson backcourt would be ferocious. Not sure he's got enough to swing a deal, but he might try. Giving away all your firsts wouldn't be a terrible move as that team would most likely be finding its way to the ECF for the next few years and the picks would be very low ones.

  • slick shoes says 3 months ago

    @rocketrick

    I agree the pick is valuable and I agree we have a few assets we can move in trade, however I don't think we have enough for Love. other teams have better offer on the table. as for Rondo if we can't get some assurances he wants to hang around I doubt Morey will spend the pick on him

    I don't see any reason to be discussing K Love any more. He doesn't want to play here so even IF we could conjure the assets to pry him away from Minny, it would only be a rental. Let him go to Cleveland. At least they're not in the west.

  • slick shoes says 3 months ago

    I half agree. While I agree that sub-par free throwers aren't the cause of our problems, having more sub-par free throwers will make things worse after the 2:00 mark.

    Probablility from some of our statistics suggests that it's mostly even money when you consider the following:

    - 50% foul shooter means that every foul is an expected 1 point, but the other team gets possesion

    - It's even money if they shoot 33% at the three or 50% for a FG
    - League average is 36% 3P% and 45.4% FG% for the 2013-2014 season.
    - Assuming the team can initiate a field goal play or 3P play 50/50 of the time, the expected value is [(45.5% * 2) + (36% * 3)> / 2 = 0.994
    - So Dwight Howard shooting 50% gets us 1 point for every foul shot, results in the league averaging an expected scoring of 0.994 points in reverse

    So essentially, "hack-a-Howard" is our achilles heel if:
    - The other team shoots greater than 33% at the three or

    - The other team shoots greater than 50% FG

    If the opposing team is losing, it's an amazing tactic. The reward is worth the risk.

    If the opposing team is relatively even in the score, it's still a favorable tactic ESPECIALLY if Houston's offensive rating is greater. "Hack-a-Howard" effectly nullifies our offensive plays.

    It's ESPECIALLY effective considering our abysmal defense.

    So yeah, "hack-a-Howard" exposes our weaknesses, and is arguably more effective against our team. Why do you think "hack-a-whoever" doesn't occur as often for other teams even if they have plays that shoot equal or worse than Howard at the free throw?

    Please note, this is not a criticism on Howard, this is a criticism on sub-par free throwers on THIS Houston team, as it exposes so much of our weaknesses.

    So having multiple sub-par free throwers after the 2:00 mark allows for greater chances of "hacking", especially when you have to have it in the hands of Rondo. Before, when we are at the 2:00 mark, Howard's problem is a non-issue if you don't pass it to him anymore, but with Rondo, since you facilitate plays through him, hacking effectively can continue after the 2:00 minute mark.

    Solid post. One note to your last point regarding hacking Rondo after the 2:00 mark. The opposing team can hack RR all they want after the two minute mark as long as we have one legitimate FT shooter on the floor. Hacking RR doesn't mean he will be taking the FT. Anyone on the floor can shoot and then we retain the ball.

  • Doug says 3 months ago

    Sorry -- I had looked at Howard's field goal percentage, not free throw percentage. He shot 55% last year (not 60%), which would translate into 1.1 points per possession. That would still make us the most efficient offense in the league.

  • Doug says 3 months ago

    Kdo, Howard shoots better than 50% from the free throw line. He shot almost 60% last year. That means the expected value of a possession when you foul Howard is 1.2 points, which would make us the best offense in the league. (Last year the Clippers led the league in points per possession at 1.09.)

    Moreover, determining expected value for the other team is not as simple as plugging in average shooting percentages. Not every possession ends with a shot because of turnovers. Between 12 and 15 percent of NBA possessions result in a turnover for a team. Additionally, because the possession for the other team will follow a free throw, they’ll have to play offense against the other teams set defense. That’s huge.

    All of that is why it almost never makes strategic sense to hack a player. Depending on the teams, the free throw shooter would have to hit an incredibly low free throw percentage to make it work -- less than 50%. Of course, that’s not to say that using the strategy will never work. But lots of dumb, counter-productive strategies work in a particular game.

  • SadLakerFan says 3 months ago The pick has value. There have been some pretty good players picked between 4 and 19 over the years. Think of all the great point guards!
  • rocketrick says 3 months ago

    Oh I didn't know about it rolling over into next years. Where did you read that?


    Feigen reported that in his article on Chron.com the other day when the trade was announced. The Rockets actually described the lottery pick as a "near guarantee" after the end of the upcoming season. I should have included "near" in my original post. I think Woj tweeted the same thing awhile back when the trade was first announced way back when. The Pelicans needed some time to clear cap space before making the trade for Asik final.
  • rocketrick says 3 months ago

    @rocketrick
    I agree the pick is valuable and I agree we have a few assets we can move in trade, however I don't think we have enough for Love. other teams have better offer on the table. as for Rondo if we can't get some assurances he wants to hang around I doubt Morey will spend the pick on him


    RBF, I think that goes without saying for any major player that is soon to be a Unrestricted Free Agent the Rockets decide to trade for. We can't afford to empty our cupboards for a 3-4 month rental only!
  • rocketrick says 3 months ago

    RocketRick, your points have some merit--and I am not claiming that it will never bite us in the butt. My points are:

    One--it happens to every team--even the ones with good free throw shooters. Every team fouls at the end of games to prolong them. Sometimes it works.

    Two--I am operating under the assumption that we will be better at defense. Ideally, we hold teams beneath that average more often than not. Ideally, Howard/Rondo shoot 60%+ from the line.

    Picture it, we could realistically roll out Howard, Jones/Motie, Ariza, Rondo (who has the size to cover SG's), and Beverley. That's 4 known defensive commodities and Jones/Motie are getting there. On paper, that line up should be up in the Bulls/Pacers/Grizzlies stratosphere of def. scoring efficiency.

    Three--Rondo does not have to run the offense at the end of the game--Harden has some experience with that. Like I said before--if it's that big of a concern we can sub in Bev, Daniels, or whoever for those 2 minutes. If Rondo doesn't like it he can learn to shoot free throws like a coordinated human being.

    Geez, so much concern over, what, 10 percentage points on free throws? Maybe we should wait until he's on the roster to be this concerned about it... :lol:


    JG,

    You addressed me (RocketRick) but I believe your response actually was for KDO.

    I am in agreement for the most part with your take on the FT shooting and have nothing more worthwhile to add.
  • rockets best fan says 3 months ago

    @rocketrick

    I agree the pick is valuable and I agree we have a few assets we can move in trade, however I don't think we have enough for Love. other teams have better offer on the table. as for Rondo if we can't get some assurances he wants to hang around I doubt Morey will spend the pick on him

  • thejohnnygold says 3 months ago

    RocketRick, your points have some merit--and I am not claiming that it will never bite us in the butt. My points are:

    One--it happens to every team--even the ones with good free throw shooters. Every team fouls at the end of games to prolong them. Sometimes it works.

    Two--I am operating under the assumption that we will be better at defense. Ideally, we hold teams beneath that average more often than not. Ideally, Howard/Rondo shoot 60%+ from the line.

    Picture it, we could realistically roll out Howard, Jones/Motie, Ariza, Rondo (who has the size to cover SG's), and Beverley. That's 4 known defensive commodities and Jones/Motie are getting there. On paper, that line up should be up in the Bulls/Pacers/Grizzlies stratosphere of def. scoring efficiency.

    Three--Rondo does not have to run the offense at the end of the game--Harden has some experience with that. Like I said before--if it's that big of a concern we can sub in Bev, Daniels, or whoever for those 2 minutes. If Rondo doesn't like it he can learn to shoot free throws like a coordinated human being.

    Geez, so much concern over, what, 10 percentage points on free throws? Maybe we should wait until he's on the roster to be this concerned about it... :lol:

  • timetodienow1234567 says 3 months ago Oh I didn't know about it rolling over into next years. Where did you read that?
  • rocketrick says 3 months ago

    The way you worded number 2 was wrong. It's protected from picks 1-3 and 20-30, so if the Pelicans stay healthy and make a jump forward into the playoffs, that pick is worthless depending on the W-L record. So it's not "guaranteed".


    I wouldn't characterize the pick as "worthless" either as it is structured such to protect the team that acquired it (and of course protects New Orleans if they end up in the lottery and win the lottery ball contest with a top 3 pick).

    This pick just reverts to the following seasons until the pick ends up somewhere between 4-19. Definitely a valuable pick in my opinion.

    Unfortunately, Boston has been holding out for 2 such picks. Maybe with a long list of young prospects, Boston can have their arm twisted for one lottery pick and extra prospects? They certainly won't have to take back much salary because of the $8.3 million TPE which is going to be attractive to any team going forward in not having to take back bad contracts (not that the Rockets really have any to offer right now anyway!)
  • kdo says 3 months ago
    Am I the only one who understands that it doesn't matter how many sub-par free throw shooters we have. It only takes one...after that the others are redundant and pointless. They will always foul Dwight. Rondo can be on the court with him without causing us any problems.

    I half agree. While I agree that sub-par free throwers aren't the cause of our problems, having more sub-par free throwers will make things worse after the 2:00 mark.

    Probablility from some of our statistics suggests that it's mostly even money when you consider the following:

    - 50% foul shooter means that every foul is an expected 1 point, but the other team gets possesion

    - It's even money if they shoot 33% at the three or 50% for a FG
    - League average is 36% 3P% and 45.4% FG% for the 2013-2014 season.
    - Assuming the team can initiate a field goal play or 3P play 50/50 of the time, the expected value is [(45.5% * 2) + (36% * 3)> / 2 = 0.994
    - So Dwight Howard shooting 50% gets us 1 point for every foul shot, results in the league averaging an expected scoring of 0.994 points in reverse

    So essentially, "hack-a-Howard" is our achilles heel if:
    - The other team shoots greater than 33% at the three or

    - The other team shoots greater than 50% FG

    If the opposing team is losing, it's an amazing tactic. The reward is worth the risk.

    If the opposing team is relatively even in the score, it's still a favorable tactic ESPECIALLY if Houston's offensive rating is greater. "Hack-a-Howard" effectly nullifies our offensive plays.

    It's ESPECIALLY effective considering our abysmal defense.

    So yeah, "hack-a-Howard" exposes our weaknesses, and is arguably more effective against our team. Why do you think "hack-a-whoever" doesn't occur as often for other teams even if they have plays that shoot equal or worse than Howard at the free throw?

    Please note, this is not a criticism on Howard, this is a criticism on sub-par free throwers on THIS Houston team, as it exposes so much of our weaknesses.

    So having multiple sub-par free throwers after the 2:00 mark allows for greater chances of "hacking", especially when you have to have it in the hands of Rondo. Before, when we are at the 2:00 mark, Howard's problem is a non-issue if you don't pass it to him anymore, but with Rondo, since you facilitate plays through him, hacking effectively can continue after the 2:00 minute mark.

  • rocketrick says 3 months ago

    The way you worded number 2 was wrong. It's protected from picks 1-3 and 20-30, so if the Pelicans stay healthy and make a jump forward into the playoffs, that pick is worthless depending on the W-L record. So it's not "guaranteed".


    I disagree. I suppose you could add "mostly" in front of guaranteed if you desire.

    Why?

    What are the chances of the Pelicans making it into the NBA Western Conference Playoffs? Very low probability as the West is loaded. So unless they completely stink it up and end up with one of the 2 or 3 worst records in the entire NBA (very unlikely in my opinion), I think it's a pretty safe bet that this will turn into a draft pick slotted between 4th - 19th.

    Besides, if the pick ends up being in the top 3 or New Orleans ends up with one of the top 10 records in the entire NBA (what is the likelihood of that?), then the pick just reverts to the next season and to the next season.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 3 months ago The way you worded number 2 was wrong. It's protected from picks 1-3 and 20-30, so if the Pelicans stay healthy and make a jump forward into the playoffs, that pick is worthless depending on the W-L record. So it's not "guaranteed".
  • rocketrick says 3 months ago I forgot to mention in the case of a potential Rondo trade, Patrick Beverley could be included.
  • houcmg38 says 3 months ago Ok, you got me. Rondo only averages 2.4 FT attempts per, so I'll go along. That would make an exciting starting 5. Rockets could use a veteran leader. If only we were in the East...
  • rocketrick says 3 months ago

    per bleacher- it will be tough to get rondo.
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2131988-houston-rockets-lack-chips-to-chase-rajon-rondo-or-kevin-love-trade


    I think a number of people may be underestimating what Morey and the Rockets have in ways of assets in a trade for Rondo or Kevin Love or Milsap:

    (1) $8.3 million traded player exception (from Lin trade to Lakers)

    (2) 2015 lottery pick guaranteed to be in in play for picks 4-19.

    (3) Clint Capela on Draft Night was reported by Woj to draw interest from several teams in potential trades that night.

    (4) Donatas Motiejunas

    (5) Would Boston be intrigued by adding Dennis Johnson's nephew, Nick Johnson? Other teams might be interested in a prospect like Canaan or Troy Daniels.

    (6) European players Rockets have player rights to: Sergio Luoll, Gentile, Papanikolaou

    Looks like a pretty deep shopping list to offer teams like Boston, Atlanta and Minnesota as the Trade Deadline nears in February and those teams start worrying much more about simply losing a key free agent in Unrestricted Free Agency Summer 2015.

    What do you think? Do the Rockets have enough assets to offer for our last big move? Who else and/or what other assets would you add to the list above?
  • houcmg38 says 3 months ago

    Am I the only one who understands that it doesn't matter how many sub-par free throw shooters we have. It only takes one...after that the others are redundant and pointless. They will always foul Dwight. Rondo can be on the court with him without causing us any problems.

    Further, assuming our defense is actually worth a flip (which it should be vastly improved in this scenario for multiple reasons) shooting 50% will be fine as we will be getting stops.

    My third point would be that, with Rondo, we would be superior and in fewer tight games.

    Fourth, I understand that none of this will change anyone's opinion.

  • thejohnnygold says 3 months ago

    Like I didn't watch us play last season....I am aware of the rules :rolleyes:. Here they are: LINK

    I fail to see how my point is not valid. After 2:00, you shoot your fouls and receive possession for off-ball fouls. Before that, as long as you are shooting 50% and can get some stops you are fine. There is no foolproof method and teams with great--GREAT--foul shooters have lost leads late...including guys like Ray Allen.

    So what do you want to do then? You cannot cover for every single contingency. Sometimes, things don't go as planned or by the percentages. The world does not function on the same rules as video games--there is no vacuum and chaos reigns supreme.

    I will repeat myself--hopefully more clearly--if a team decides to intentionally foul us prior to the 2:00 mark they are, and always will, foul Dwight Howard. We could put 4 other bad free throw shooters out there....and they would foul Dwight Howard. So, when I say it doesn't make one lick of difference if Rondo is out there or not--that is why. They are going to foul Howard. Rondo's shooting ability is so irrelevant that I can't believe we're still discussing it. So what if they do foul Rondo? What's the difference between him and Dwight? This makes no sense to care one iota about.

    Yet, I will add one more thing to think about. If you were an opposing coach, down by 8-10 with 4-5 minutes left and wanted to slow the game down and try to catch up who would you foul on our team? Conversely, if you were our coach, and knew the opposing team was going to try this, would you not want to field the best defensive line-up you could since offensively it isn't going to matter?

    Am I missing something here?

    If the concern is we are behind then we can put in an offensive unit--for instance we could sub out Rondo and put in Daniels. I just can't see the worry here. Rondo shot about 63%...that's nearly 2/3...it's not the end of the world.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 3 months ago Of course saying that, Rondos positives outweigh his negatives.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 3 months ago JG with the rule change it DOES matter. Off the ball fouls count differently than fouls when you have the ball with under 2 minutes left.
  • thejohnnygold says 3 months ago

    Am I the only one who understands that it doesn't matter how many sub-par free throw shooters we have. It only takes one...after that the others are redundant and pointless. They will always foul Dwight. Rondo can be on the court with him without causing us any problems.

    Further, assuming our defense is actually worth a flip (which it should be vastly improved in this scenario for multiple reasons) shooting 50% will be fine as we will be getting stops.

    My third point would be that, with Rondo, we would be superior and in fewer tight games.

    Fourth, I understand that none of this will change anyone's opinion.

  • houcmg38 says 3 months ago That makes since, I understand we need to improve our defense to go deep. Considering how tight playoff games are I (personally) don't like the idea of adding another sub 70% FT shooter. Portland series at the line was hard to watch...
  • slick shoes says 3 months ago

    He is actually a great fit for us. Veteran leadership, pass first guard which will mesh well with Howard and Harden's demand for touches, a true floor general which we definitely lack. Understand that shooting is not something that the Rockets lack. The rumor is that any offer extended to Bledsoe will be matched by PHX which is why we either haven't chased him or every attempt has been immediately shot down.

    I'd also venture to say that at this point (even with the addition of Bledsoe or Rondo) we will be ousted in the first round unless defense becomes a priority for this team.

    Are you agreeing with me or just having trouble working the forum?

  • houcmg38 says 3 months ago

    He is actually a great fit for us. Veteran leadership, pass first guard which will mesh well with Howard and Harden's demand for touches, a true floor general which we definitely lack. Understand that shooting is not something that the Rockets lack. The rumor is that any offer extended to Bledsoe will be matched by PHX which is why we either haven't chased him or every attempt has been immediately shot down.

    I'd also venture to say that at this point (even with the addition of Bledsoe or Rondo) we will be ousted in the first round unless defense becomes a priority for this team.

  • slick shoes says 3 months ago

    20070526081818!CaptainobviousChooseOptio

  • dkh750il says 3 months ago

    per bleacher- it will be tough to get rondo.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2131988-houston-rockets-lack-chips-to-chase-rajon-rondo-or-kevin-love-trade

  • houcmg38 says 3 months ago

    Once again, you make my point but much more eloquently. I'm starting to like you, JG ;)

  • Steven says 3 months ago

    I guess they'll just have to outscore everyone ;)

    Sounds like fun, entertaining basketball to me.
  • thejohnnygold says 3 months ago

    Canaan can't defend, him with Harden for more than spot min would likely get Howard in foul trouble.

    I guess they'll just have to outscore everyone ;)

  • Cooper says 3 months ago

    Canaan can't defend, him with Harden for more than spot min would likely get Howard in foul trouble.

  • rockets best fan says 3 months ago

    @JG

    I agree with you on this point.......many underestimate what a real floor general PG can do to our team. I like Rondo. the players most benefited by a real PG would be D-12 and T-Jones. I can't tell you how many times I see one or the other get loose under the bucket and we are to busy standing around outside dribbling the ball. we need to get that ball away from Harden. I don't mind him handling some PG duties, but we need to cut that time as much as possible. we need someone who can use the weapons we already have

  • thejohnnygold says 3 months ago

    Why isn't Canaan a good fit?

  • Dayak says 3 months ago Parsons and his silly pump fake may go to the Mavs, I'm not gonna miss him. Thanks for what he did for us but he simply overpaid and will be the scapegoat of the Mavs beside the Elite PG "the greatest" Raymond Felton.

    If we don't get a backup PG for PBev, i believe we'll see Nick Johnson as our backup PG before the allstar game, or maybe sooner. Canaan? He is not a good fit next to Harden.
  • dkh750il says 3 months ago

    slick shoes- lol. I remember that game.

    Even the sun shines on a dog's a^^ some days. :)

  • slick shoes says 3 months ago

    rondo works- everything jg said. he is a rebound grabbing, playmaking, ball stealing, in your face, bow to no one, double double machine that will stretch the floor- AND fill out the roster better so we can have multiple effective line ups. They guy plays 35 minutes in his career 4 seasons in a row (last season no, due to injury) He is a machine!
    starters
    ariza/harden- perimeter threat
    dwight/rondo/jones- inside threat

    you can mix him in with small ball line ups with troy daniels/bev give harden a rest. etc.

    Rondo gives HOU a lot of options on the floor both offensive and defensively.

    Dude, don't underestimate Dwight's perimeter game:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQhGszKOezY

  • dkh750il says 3 months ago

    rondo works- everything jg said. he is a rebound grabbing, playmaking, ball stealing, in your face, bow to no one, double double machine that will stretch the floor- AND fill out the roster better so we can have multiple effective line ups. They guy plays 35 minutes in his career 4 seasons in a row (last season no, due to injury) He is a machine!
    starters
    ariza/harden- perimeter threat
    dwight/rondo/jones- inside threat

    you can mix him in with small ball line ups with troy daniels/bev give harden a rest. etc.

    Rondo gives HOU a lot of options on the floor both offensive and defensively.

  • slick shoes says 3 months ago

    The bow-tie has special powers.

    Bully blinders?

  • Steven says 3 months ago

    Once again, you make my point but much more eloquently. I'm starting to like you, JG ;)

    The bow-tie has special powers.
  • thejohnnygold says 3 months ago

    Once again, you make my point but much more eloquently. I'm starting to like you, JG ;)

    You set 'em up...I'll knock 'em down ;)

  • slick shoes says 3 months ago

    Sometimes it seems as if people think free agency is like going to the grocery store.

    Yeah, ummmm, let's get one of those top shelf point guards. No, not that one. Grab the Bledsoe....annnnnnd we're gonna want more shooting guard. No, not the Stephenson...it upsets my stomach. This Meeks is way over-priced. Forget it, we've got a Troy Daniels at home already.

    I'm still upset we didn't get that Bosh. It was the only one and some other jerk offered more money for it at the last second. It should have been ours! We saw it first!

    I tell you what, let's just grab a bunch of these discount power forwards and small-ish centers, take them to the farmers' market and we can trade for one of their nice Kevin Loves.

    If we don't look at things with a larger window than, say, 10 months (which might be generous for some), then we will miss a lot of pertinent details. Phoenix brought in Bledsoe while they alreadyhad Dragic. Hence, the logic that they will gladly let him walk, after trading assets for him (albeit, nothing major), when he is poised to be Kyle Lowry 2.0 is far-fetched to me. Further, they just brought in Isaiah Thomas and have two other PG's on the roster.

    To me, this signals a Dragic exit. Something tells me he isn't a team player. A good player? Yes. However, he strong-armed his way out of Houston (like it or not, that's what happened) and I think Phoenix sees the same thing coming. He has played very well and is due a raise. I think Phoenix realizes he will seek a full max deal--and nothing less. They are going to make it somebody else's problem. Smart, savvy move on their part. Bledsoe and Thomas will be a great guard duo.

    On Rondo, people citing his faults aren't wrong--they're just missing the point in my opinion--the same way they are missing a major point of the Ariza signing. Fit. It's about fit. Very few players in this league lack flaws (are there any?).

    A quick aside--my wife and I are a great fit together--because we balance one another. For example, she is a worrier and I'm pretty care-free. If we were both worriers we'd end up in some weird stress feeding frenzy and end up making each other crazy. Instead, she can release her concerns and I'm, more or less, unfazed by them. There are lots of give and takes like this--point is, it is about fit. She counters my faults and quirks and I hers.

    So, with that in mind, think about our beloved Rockets. Rondo, with his suspect shot, free throw shooting, and attitude is still an excellent fit next to Harden. First and foremost, he adds a coach on the floor. For all of you who decry McHale's lack of play-calling and any semblance of direction in the offense--with Rondo that problem is largely solved as he naturally directs the offense and puts people in position to succeed.

    How huge is that? >------------------ :o -------------------< THIS HUGE! He will bend the defense and allow Harden, Howard, Jones, and Ariza to get easier looks than usual. Typically, that directly effects efficiency measures like fg% and tov%. More good things. He will alleviate a lot of Harden's burden in initiating the offense--more energy for other stuff.

    He brings toughness, leadership, and championship pedigree in an elite athlete who is at an age where he sees the window closing and will be on the same page as Dwight in his willingness to do anything to get to the finals.

    His arrival moves Bev to the bench. More than likely he plays there for a year and then we move him to a team looking for a bulldog PG in exchange for a future draft pick. Good for him. Until then, he hounds weaker opposing back-up PG's and makes our second unit much stronger. Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if he stayed here on a $3-$4M contract....just seems like that kind of guy.

    Rondo gets to the rim at will so his perimeter shooting is not a big issue. Like Howard, his free throw shooting is weak, but teams only have so many fouls to give and with Harden and Howard already being league leaders teams cannot afford to start fouling him too--if they do then we can beat up on their reserves.

    He's not perfect by any measure, but his arrival here would significantly improve our team across the board--to championship levels. This means, when Jones, Motie, etc's contracts come up we can re-sign them over the cap with Bird Rights.

    The only question is what it costs to get him. Obviously, Ainge is holding tight to his biggest trade chip. We can be patient. We aren't desperate. Rondo can be acquired free and clear after this season--no reason to over-pay in a trade.

    Once again, you make my point but much more eloquently. I'm starting to like you, JG ;)

  • thejohnnygold says 3 months ago

    Sometimes it seems as if people think free agency is like going to the grocery store.

    Yeah, ummmm, let's get one of those top shelf point guards. No, not that one. Grab the Bledsoe....annnnnnd we're gonna want more shooting guard. No, not the Stephenson...it upsets my stomach. This Meeks is way over-priced. Forget it, we've got a Troy Daniels at home already.

    I'm still upset we didn't get that Bosh. It was the only one and some other jerk offered more money for it at the last second. It should have been ours! We saw it first!

    I tell you what, let's just grab a bunch of these discount power forwards and small-ish centers, take them to the farmers' market and we can trade for one of their nice Kevin Loves.

    If we don't look at things with a larger window than, say, 10 months (which might be generous for some), then we will miss a lot of pertinent details. Phoenix brought in Bledsoe while they alreadyhad Dragic. Hence, the logic that they will gladly let him walk, after trading assets for him (albeit, nothing major), when he is poised to be Kyle Lowry 2.0 is far-fetched to me. Further, they just brought in Isaiah Thomas and have two other PG's on the roster.

    To me, this signals a Dragic exit. Something tells me he isn't a team player. A good player? Yes. However, he strong-armed his way out of Houston (like it or not, that's what happened) and I think Phoenix sees the same thing coming. He has played very well and is due a raise. I think Phoenix realizes he will seek a full max deal--and nothing less. They are going to make it somebody else's problem. Smart, savvy move on their part. Bledsoe and Thomas will be a great guard duo.

    On Rondo, people citing his faults aren't wrong--they're just missing the point in my opinion--the same way they are missing a major point of the Ariza signing. Fit. It's about fit. Very few players in this league lack flaws (are there any?).

    A quick aside--my wife and I are a great fit together--because we balance one another. For example, she is a worrier and I'm pretty care-free. If we were both worriers we'd end up in some weird stress feeding frenzy and end up making each other crazy. Instead, she can release her concerns and I'm, more or less, unfazed by them. There are lots of give and takes like this--point is, it is about fit. She counters my faults and quirks and I hers.

    So, with that in mind, think about our beloved Rockets. Rondo, with his suspect shot, free throw shooting, and attitude is still an excellent fit next to Harden. First and foremost, he adds a coach on the floor. For all of you who decry McHale's lack of play-calling and any semblance of direction in the offense--with Rondo that problem is largely solved as he naturally directs the offense and puts people in position to succeed.

    How huge is that? >------------------ :o -------------------< THIS HUGE! He will bend the defense and allow Harden, Howard, Jones, and Ariza to get easier looks than usual. Typically, that directly affects efficiency measures like fg% and tov%. More good things. He will alleviate a lot of Harden's burden in initiating the offense--more energy for other stuff.

    He brings toughness, leadership, and championship pedigree in an elite athlete who is at an age where he sees the window closing and will be on the same page as Dwight in his willingness to do anything to get to the finals.

    His arrival moves Bev to the bench. More than likely he plays there for a year and then we move him to a team looking for a bulldog PG in exchange for a future draft pick. Good for him. Until then, he hounds weaker opposing back-up PG's and makes our second unit much stronger. Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if he stayed here on a $3-$4M contract....just seems like that kind of guy.

    Rondo gets to the rim at will so his perimeter shooting is not a big issue. Like Howard, his free throw shooting is weak, but teams only have so many fouls to give and with Harden and Howard already being league leaders teams cannot afford to start fouling him too--if they do then we can beat up on their reserves.

    He's not perfect by any measure, but his arrival here would significantly improve our team across the board--to championship levels. This means, when Jones, Motie, etc's contracts come up we can re-sign them over the cap with Bird Rights.

    The only question is what it costs to get him. Obviously, Ainge is holding tight to his biggest trade chip. We can be patient. We aren't desperate. Rondo can be acquired free and clear after this season--no reason to over-pay in a trade.

    Edit: a letter

  • slick shoes says 3 months ago

    Rondo is a terrible fit for us, CANNOT shoot from anywhere on the floor including FT line. Eric Bledsoe would be a much better fit. I was kinda on board with losing parsons, but now that this has played out. I understand going for Bosh was important, but why did we waste time on Anthony? What was he going to bring? Tattoos don't count. Instead of wasting time on these fools, we should have gone for Eric Bledsoe 1st, when Phoenix don't match offer (because they have Drogic)we sign ariza if cap room, then match Parsons putting us in the same cap issue as if we signed Bosh and still have a contending starting 5. Surely we could have signed Bledsoe and Ariza for 20 mil or less
    Haward
    Harden
    Parsons
    T Jones
    Eric Bledsoe
    6th man of the year Ariza

    Beverley, cannon, daniels, Dmoe, FA big man, hamelton, etc, etc

    We win 55+ and advance to 2nd round mimimum

    He is actually a great fit for us. Veteran leadership, pass first guard which will mesh well with Howard and Harden's demand for touches, a true floor general which we definitely lack. Understand that shooting is not something that the Rockets lack. The rumor is that any offer extended to Bledsoe will be matched by PHX which is why we either haven't chased him or every attempt has been immediately shot down.

    I'd also venture to say that at this point (even with the addition of Bledsoe or Rondo) we will be ousted in the first round unless defense becomes a priority for this team.

  • houcmg38 says 3 months ago Rondo is a terrible fit for us, CANNOT shoot from anywhere on the floor including FT line. Eric Bledsoe would be a much better fit. I was kinda on board with losing parsons, but now that this has played out. I understand going for Bosh was important, but why did we waste time on Anthony? What was he going to bring? Tattoos don't count. Instead of wasting time on these fools, we should have gone for Eric Bledsoe 1st, when Phoenix don't match offer (because they have Drogic)we sign ariza if cap room, then match Parsons putting us in the same cap issue as if we signed Bosh and still have a contending starting 5. Surely we could have signed Bledsoe and Ariza for 20 mil or less
    Haward
    Harden
    Parsons
    T Jones
    Eric Bledsoe
    6th man of the year Ariza

    Beverley, cannon, daniels, Dmoe, FA big man, hamelton, etc, etc

    We win 55+ and advance to 2nd round mimimum
  • slick shoes says 3 months ago

    wow rondo would be great for this team, houston needs the assists and his tenaciousness/toughness. i don't know if it is a championship team, but it seems like a great match.

    Spent a few hours last night discussing this potential move with a buddy of mine from Boston. Rondo is basically the only trading chip the Celts have at this point, so they're going to use it to the best of their ability. Unless they are in full fledged tank/"rebuild" mode, we don't really have anything to offer at this point aside from our starting 5 (and maybe D-Mo). Our only leverage in that situation was the recently departed CP. Maybe playing for another Celtic great is a draw for Rajon, but I can also see him getting frustrated with our lack of coaching ability late in games/the season when the playoffs are looming.

  • rocketrick says 3 months ago

    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Who said this? Albert Einstein or Daryl Morey? What, you don't think Dr. Morey is in the same league as the father of physics? Just take a look at Dr. Morey's face. Study it closely. Is that the face of a genius? Or the face of a man who loves banana cream pie? It doesn't matter because your peanut brain could never fathom the intricate machinations of Dr. Morey's mind anyway. Are you a genius? I didn't think so. Take Parsons. Anyone who knows anything thought it was a no brainer to match the Mavs. Red94 thought it was a done deal: "Trevor Ariza at 8 is very good value, undoubtedly better value than the money the team will be paying Chandler Parsons once they match his offer sheet later today." But like a bolt of lightning, the Mad Genius strikes again. And now that Zarathustra has spoken, everyone agrees, yes, what the great googly-moogly were we thinking?! Of course we can't match that "ridiculous" contract! Dr. Morey saves us again! For those of you that have a life, you might be thinking, wait didn't we have Parsons locked up for another year at a buck and a half? Yes we did. And didn't Dr. Morey cut Mr. P loose so that we could sign him to a long term contract by matching any offer? Yes he did. So why didn't we match? Because someone made a "ridiculous" offer that was unmatchable that's why peanut head! But why didn't our Mad Genius foresee this? Because it was unforeseeable. Never happened before. It was sicker than Riley maxing out Bosh when any fool would have just started rebuilding. Ask yourself this: When was the last time someone made a "ridiculous" unmatchable offer to a restricted free agent that everyone thought for sure was staying with his team? That's right never! That's the definition of unforeseeable! It doesn't matter anyway. We're practically a lock for Rondo or Love. Obviously the Rockets are at the top of their list. Wouldn't playing for the Rockets be at the top of your list? Even without Rondo or Love, we are no worse than last year. So we didn't get a home run. At least we got a double or even a triple. Harden will be better. Patrick will have a break-out year. Howard's getting younger and stronger. And best of all, we're going to see.................Canaansanity!


    I was clearly one of the Red94 regulars pushing for the Rockets to sign Parsons to that terrible contract.

    Until I realized just what was in that contract----the Poison Pill all but making Parsons untradeable.

    Funny how Parsons rails about how badly the Rockets handled this without admitting that his (or his agent's) request for the Poison Pill was the Final Nail in the Coffin.
  • dkh750il says 3 months ago

    wow rondo would be great for this team, houston needs the assists and his tenaciousness/toughness. i don't know if it is a championship team, but it seems like a great match.

  • Steven says 3 months ago The list is so long, sometimes you overlook the most important. JG is newest to the movement, so it's fresher in my mind. I apologize for my forgetfulness.
  • rockets best fan says 3 months ago

    @Steven

    C'mom Steven you forgot me :(

  • Steven says 3 months ago Sweet. The movement is growing.
  • thejohnnygold says 3 months ago

    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Who said this? Albert Einstein or Daryl Morey? What, you don't think Dr. Morey is in the same league as the father of physics? Just take a look at Dr. Morey's face. Study it closely. Is that the face of a genius? Or the face of a man who loves banana cream pie? It doesn't matter because your peanut brain could never fathom the intricate machinations of Dr. Morey's mind anyway. Are you a genius? I didn't think so. Take Parsons. Anyone who knows anything thought it was a no brainer to match the Mavs. Red94 thought it was a done deal: "Trevor Ariza at 8 is very good value, undoubtedly better value than the money the team will be paying Chandler Parsons once they match his offer sheet later today." But like a bolt of lightning, the Mad Genius strikes again. And now that Zarathustra has spoken, everyone agrees, yes, what the great googly-moogly were we thinking?! Of course we can't match that "ridiculous" contract! Dr. Morey saves us again! For those of you that have a life, you might be thinking, wait didn't we have Parsons locked up for another year at a buck and a half? Yes we did. And didn't Dr. Morey cut Mr. P loose so that we could sign him to a long term contract by matching any offer? Yes he did. So why didn't we match? Because someone made a "ridiculous" offer that was unmatchable that's why peanut head! But why didn't our Mad Genius foresee this? Because it was unforeseeable. Never happened before. It was sicker than Riley maxing out Bosh when any fool would have just started rebuilding. Ask yourself this: When was the last time someone made a "ridiculous" unmatchable offer to a restricted free agent that everyone thought for sure was staying with his team? That's right never! That's the definition of unforeseeable! It doesn't matter anyway. We're practically a lock for Rondo or Love. Obviously the Rockets are at the top of their list. Wouldn't playing for the Rockets be at the top of your list? Even without Rondo or Love, we are no worse than last year. So we didn't get a home run. At least we got a double or even a triple. Harden will be better. Patrick will have a break-out year. Howard's getting younger and stronger. And best of all, we're going to see.................Canaansanity!

    Another fun post, Jimmy. First, please try to avoid the f-bombs and name-calling. You are new here, so consider this a friendly introduction and all will be well. In case you are looking, I edited it out already. Probably should have taken out "peanut brain" as well...

    Now, I'd just like to delineate myself from your sweeping generalization that "Red94 thought it was a done deal". Up until Bosh took Miami's offer...yes. Once Bosh walked I was of the belief Parsons was gone. That is all. :)

    Steven, don't forget RBF. He is a Canaan Truther as well.

  • dkh750il says 3 months ago

    "Am I the only one to suspect that Norwitzski and Cuban do under-the-table payments?"

    Never thought of that! That makes a lot of sense.

  • dkh750il says 3 months ago

    jimmypage is a God!

  • Steven says 3 months ago Welcome JimmyPage to the Canaan Truthers!!!

    I am president, JG and his bow-tie is VP, guess you can be treasurer if you want it.
  • jimmypage says 3 months ago

    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." Who said this? Albert Einstein or Daryl Morey? What, you don't think Dr. Morey is in the same league as the father of physics? Just take a look at Dr. Morey's face. Study it closely. Is that the face of a genius? Or the face of a man who loves banana cream pie? It doesn't matter because your peanut brain could never fathom the intricate machinations of Dr. Morey's mind anyway. Are you a genius? I didn't think so. Take Parsons. Anyone who knows anything thought it was a no brainer to match the Mavs. Red94 thought it was a done deal: "Trevor Ariza at 8 is very good value, undoubtedly better value than the money the team will be paying Chandler Parsons once they match his offer sheet later today." But like a bolt of lightning, the Mad Genius strikes again. And now that Zarathustra has spoken, everyone agrees, yes, what the great googly-moogly were we thinking?! Of course we can't match that "ridiculous" contract! Dr. Morey saves us again! For those of you that have a life, you might be thinking, wait didn't we have Parsons locked up for another year at a buck and a half? Yes we did. And didn't Dr. Morey cut Mr. P loose so that we could sign him to a long term contract by matching any offer? Yes he did. So why didn't we match? Because someone made a "ridiculous" offer that was unmatchable that's why peanut head! But why didn't our Mad Genius foresee this? Because it was unforeseeable. Never happened before. It was sicker than Riley maxing out Bosh when any fool would have just started rebuilding. Ask yourself this: When was the last time someone made a "ridiculous" unmatchable offer to a restricted free agent that everyone thought for sure was staying with his team? That's right never! That's the definition of unforeseeable! It doesn't matter anyway. We're practically a lock for Rondo or Love. Obviously the Rockets are at the top of their list. Wouldn't playing for the Rockets be at the top of your list? Even without Rondo or Love, we are no worse than last year. So we didn't get a home run. At least we got a double or even a triple. Harden will be better. Patrick will have a break-out year. Howard's getting younger and stronger. And best of all, we're going to see.................Canaansanity!

  • SadLakerFan says 3 months ago

    Maybe McHale should be sent to investigate.

  • pretty pleaze parsons says 3 months ago

    Am I the only one to suspect that Norwitzski and Cuban do under-the-table payments?

    Cuban has stated that he has in the past "taken care of" Norwitski, and the current $8m dollar contract is extremely suspicious (lower than the previously announced $10m).

    If so, this is what allowed Cuban to make a massive overbid on Parsons, and they should be investigated by the NBA.

  • YaoMan says 3 months ago

    This is how Chandler is going to feel pretty soon. That $46M also comes with a whole lot of responsibility. Hopefully, he can handle it, but there will definitely be interviews like this one in his future.

    *thanks to the fan who posted this over on reddit.com

    And we also know that Parsons isn't anywhere in the same planet when it comes to basketball skills and talent compared to T-mac! I was cracking up about the fans who ordered the Heinekens and got Bud instead!!! Good throw back video...

  • rockets best fan says 3 months ago

    @JG

    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:..........at least he admits it :lol:

  • thejohnnygold says 3 months ago

    This is how Chandler is going to feel pretty soon. That $46M also comes with a whole lot of responsibility. Hopefully, he can handle it, but there will definitely be interviews like this one in his future.

    *thanks to the fan who posted this over on reddit.com

  • rockets best fan says 3 months ago

    @Rahat/Forrest

    good podcast guys. I agree with most of what you say. I also agree Morey isn't through building the team for this season. Rondo would be nice, but I don't think Morey will be looking at only Love and Rondo to fill that last star position. Morey wants to maintain this flexibility so he can be opportunistic. to assume that only Love and Rondo are on the radar would be underestimating Morey

  • redfaithful says 3 months ago

    Really liked Forrest's closing comment - this was the height of GM panic season and it got some of them back to the days of let's-pay-too-much-money-for-players-who-aren't-worth-that-much, which the new CBA put to rest for some time. MIA and DAL will regret those bad contracts sooner or later. When the market goes insane better stay away from it, signing Ariza and Daniels to rational contracts is close to the best you can do.

  • Cooper says 3 months ago

    Rondo would be a very good add and seems like he would be attainable with the lin trade exception the pells pick and another young guy boston would choose. He has championship experience and probably would have punched Harden out on the court when he was moping about in a fricking playoff game, also a guy that tells the team whoever gives up a game winning three to the best shooter on the court with .9 seconds left better not come back into the locker room.

    If Rondo is a no go, I'd double check how attached phx is to Bledsoe, not the playmaker rondo is but a good fit none the less.

    Love is just to much to ask for with limited assets. They are wanting Wiggens from the cavs and it isn't an unreasonable ask for Love we just can't match that.

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