Preview: Houston Rockets @ Denver Nuggets on January 30, 2013

 

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Total comments: 25
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago Nvmd.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago It's true, we are on the outside looking in and have no idea what the reasons are.....for all we know Lin's conditioning isn't good enough. Maybe McHale sits him so that he can go strong for the last 8-10 minutes. I know most teams rest the starters a the beginning of the fourth for this reason....Again, maybe Lin just needs more rest than most....I believe this is the first time he has played starter minutes for this duration.

    Once again, let's look at some numbers:

    EDIT: wow, those stats were formatted when I posted them, must have gotten jumbled ...I will try to fix.

    EDIT 2: sorry, couldn't fix...will post links. Focus on the splits between wins and losses and the splits for "days off"

    Jeremey Lin's Stats

    Toney Douglas' Stats

    Looking at # of days rest, Lin definitely shows signs of not having the proper conditioning. It is drastic, really. On the other hand, Douglas seems to do best when "in a rhythm" and playing games close together.

    For Lin, not much changes except for his fg% and one extra assist in wins vs. losses. I would venture a guess that he is more involved with "leading" the offense in the "wins" which increases his productivity and effectiveness. The minutes seem to be irrelevant--perhaps it is his role that is the difference maker....

    Douglas' numbers are similar to Lin's except that in the "wins" he shoots a little more and assists a little less.

    Presuming McHale knows this, I will try to watch and see if the substitution patterns reflect this knowledge in the future.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago We all have different opinions on different players. I think Lin, with continued growth, can be an all-star in 2-3 years. I think Parsons has that potential as well if he keeps growing. I don't think Harden has the potential to be a superstar in the way LBJ/KD/TD/etc.... are. In my opinion, he will be a perennial all-star but won't reach that first tier. I see a little better Joe Johnson. If Asik can learn to score he will be an all-star every year if he keeps his defensive/rebounding intensity level high. I don't see a ton of potential in Douglas. But, more than that, I want the team to win. Judging by the eye test, the offense runs much more smoothly when Lin runs the point more. During the losing streak, Harden was running the point more than now and so was Parsons/Delfino. If you take the other argument and that we're rebuilding, then Lin should STILL be playing more. He's young and under contract for 3 years.
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago I have been a Rockets fan since I was in my mother's womb. Now that's out of the way... :P jk.

    @feelingsupersonic: I wonder. Overall, I do agree with you in that I think it is more likely than not that Lin is not an all star (whoah double negative), but I feel a bit more hesitant about that prediction than I am saying the same thing of 2Pat. I think Lin's main problems are "confidence" related and his jump shot. Both seem easier to fix than a lot of other problems young NBA players face. That might be at the root of some posters' frustration -- they want to see what Lin can do. Seems understandable, almost like a call out for our rooks haha.

    @ST: I always really enjoy reading your posts ST. They're well thought out, articulate and informative. On this particular topic at hand, I think it is hard to argue with you that McHale messed up purely based on the results...but then again, you said results aren't everything. While your comments address some issues, it somewhat misses others -- such as the seemingly irrational decision-making McHale undertakes. I say "seemingly" because it is hard to know exactly what is up without being inside someone else's head...but perception is pretty much just as important as reality. Fans and maybe even Lin alike (guessing) are sometimes thrown off by McHale's actions. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. The characteristic it always has is incoherence lol.

    Does pulling Lin at that point = coach should be run out of town? Is the 2 min differential that important? I suppose not, but I'd feel a lot better if I just saw McHale whisper something in Lin's ear when doing it (in a Pop sort of way). I don't get some of his decisions, but I may just be ignorant when it comes to basketball coaching. Admittedly, it isn't an area that I am extremely familiar with. But I feel like some players, such as Lin, are just as confused (for whatever reason), and that can be damaging.

    This one example is hardly enough to warrant a coaching change, but he's done this enough times this season where I almost expect it to happen (and by 'it' I mean me going "Huh? Wonder why he did that"). Again, I don't think McHale should leave now, esp. when only looking at the Denver game lol, but that game is just one example of many (and more likely, just an obvious outlet for fan frustration that represents the greater concern). However, I also don't think McHale is the Rockets coach of the future haha.
  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago I have been a Rockets fan since Akeem and Ralph joined together to form the Twin Towers. Anyway, I don't believe Lin's ceiling is that high. It is just my opinion but I think it is safe to say Lin and Patrick Patterson will never be All Stars, solid rotation players yes. I do believe it is important to note that they are young and still developing so let's give them a year or so playing together under McHale, who by all accounts they seem to like playing for. None of the Rockets players complain about McHale or the system they are in, so I ask my self why should the fans?
  • thenit says 1 YEAR ago

    feelingsupersonic, on 01 February 2013 - 23:28 PM said:


    I understand that some of you are really big fans of Lin and that at times he is a dynamic game changer but normally he is an above average player (and let's forget comparing him to Harden because they happen to be on the same team and are not competing with each other except in the imagination of some misguided Rockets fans) that gets treated as such by McHale. There is nothing unfair about his treatment as any fan could deduce from the information Sir Thursday has provided us. Jeremy Lin is in no way displeased with how the Rockets organization and coaching staff treats him in fact he seems to be very dedicated to his team and his coaches, in reality.

    If you have strong opinions about Jeremy Lin and are a big fan of his then that's great. If your opinion is that he should play more then that is fair just don't state that as a fact or if your opinion is that the Rockets would be better if he played more that's fine but that is an opinion unless you state some facts and prove otherwise.

    As always outstanding posts Sir Thursday.


    I've been a rockets fan since T-mac joined. I'm not comparing Harden to Lin, there is no discussion who is the superior talent and player. Maybe it gives the wrong impression, but I am more concerned of the coaching of Mchale on how he distributes the minutes.
    I agree SIr that nit picking a particular game is not the best arguments, but in your case stating that Tony was a plus 4 during that stretch is correct but when he went in the game rockets was up by 3 and down by 3 when Tony got subbed in. My issue is not with Tony Douglas as I posted before that I couldn't understand when Beverley was playing the backup pg role for a few games.

    For the coming 3 years it seems like Lin will be the pg unless we can get Paul. Him being the future, I am want to see what he can do in the 4th quarter and not sitting him. The sample size on Lin is limited and we need to get a better picture of what he can do consistently. He has a high ceiling but will he ever be consistent ? We won't know unless he plays without getting pulled in my opinion irrationally by Mchale. We are not winnning a championship this year, so why not let him and 2 pat play heavier minutes so we know if those players will be in a potential contender, that's my real beef.
  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago I understand that some of you are really big fans of Lin and that at times he is a dynamic game changer but normally he is an above average player (and let's forget comparing him to Harden because they happen to be on the same team and are not competing with each other except in the imagination of some misguided Rockets fans) that gets treated as such by McHale. There is nothing unfair about his treatment as any fan could deduce from the information Sir Thursday has provided us. Jeremy Lin is in no way displeased with how the Rockets organization and coaching staff treats him in fact he seems to be very dedicated to his team and his coaches, in reality.

    If you have strong opinions about Jeremy Lin and are a big fan of his then that's great. If your opinion is that he should play more then that is fair just don't state that as a fact or if your opinion is that the Rockets would be better if he played more that's fine but that is an opinion unless you state some facts and prove otherwise.

    As always outstanding posts Sir Thursday.
  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago

    thenit, on 01 February 2013 - 17:42 PM said:


    SirThursday:

    I agree on some of the points that Lin didn't really make a difference neither did Tony. Also having hte starters sit at the start of 4th quarter is the standard. What I don't understand is that you take out your starting pg after 4.53 in the 3rd quarter when it wasn't warranted because Tony didn't light it up in the 1st and Lin wasn't blowing the game. Thats my problem with Mchale doing that to Lin and sometimes 2pat


    I'm not normally a fan of debating a decision soley based on the outcome (if you're taking a heave at the end of the shotclock it's still a bad shot even if it goes in), but in this instance I don't really have anything else to work with since I can't check the gameplay on League Pass at the moment. The team grew the lead while Douglas was in, and a significant proportion of that was directly due to Douglas (the two steals were entirely created by him, that's 4 points right off the bat). Are you saying with Lin on the floor the team would have done better than the +4 they got between 7:07 and 1:00 in the third? That doesn't seem like a particuarly strong argument.

    I went back and had a look at when Lin has been subbed out during the third quarter in the past few games. Here are the results:

    @ New Orleans: 5:43 remaining
    vs Brooklyn: 4:43 remaining
    @ Utah: 5:20 remaining

    So in those games Lin got ~2 minutes more playing time in the third quarter before coming out. Are you really suggesting that McHale should be run out of town because he took Lin out of the game two minutes earlier than usual? When the team did well without him? Seems ridiculous to me...

    ST
  • thenit says 1 YEAR ago SirThursday:

    I agree on some of the points that Lin didn't really make a difference neither did Tony. Also having hte starters sit at the start of 4th quarter is the standard. What I don't understand is that you take out your starting pg after 4.53 in the 3rd quarter when it wasn't warranted because Tony didn't light it up in the 1st and Lin wasn't blowing the game. Thats my problem with Mchale doing that to Lin and sometimes 2pat
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago wow, good stuff Sir Thursday. You're right, at this point it is only conjecture that Lin would have made any difference one way OR the other. There is no way to know that.
  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago I just went back and had a look at the play-by-play to see if there's anything to what you guys are saying. Lin was substituted for Douglas with 7:07 remaining in the third, with the score at 68-64 to Houston. The team then increased the lead after Douglas came in. If you remember, he stole the ball on back-to-back possessions, scoring easy layups. The team was up 85-77 with 1:00 left in the quarter. It therefore cannot have been a bad decision to take Lin out of the game in the third quarter, since the team stretched the lead in his absence.

    Now, could McHale have put Lin back in earlier? Well, 8 seconds after the lead reached his peak (eg. 52 seconds remaining in the 3rd) he had one opportunity, as Brewer was sent to the line. It was understandable that he didn't do it there since the team was still on a roll at that point. But there were no other opportunities in the rest of the third (the only other stoppage was when Douglas himself was sent to the line, and you can't take him out then). The Nuggets make a couple of baskets at the end of the quarter and the lead was cut to three.

    Start of the 4th quarter, and McHale puts out a lineup of Douglas, Delfino, Parsons, Morris and Asik. This is uncontroversial - nearly every team in the league rests their best players at the beginning of the 4th to allow them to play one long stint in the closing few minutes. That's why neither Harden nor Lin are present. Nuggets open the 4th quarter with two quick baskets and McHale calls a timeout. He takes out Delfino and Morris and inserts Harden and Patterson. Now, you could make a case that he should have inserted Lin at this point. I would need to rewatch the tape for the last couple of minutes of the game to determine whether or not it would have been prudent to take Douglas out here. Can't remember any great howlers off the top of my head, but I was feeling a bit under the weather while watching the game so I might have forgotten something.

    Anyway, play continues for a further couple of minutes until 9:43, when Lin was put back in. During the intervening time, the score was 1-0 in favour of the Nuggets. So there was no big loss in leaving him out there for that stretch. That would imply that McHale did not make any huge mistake in taking Douglas out when he did.

    Overall, I can only see one instance where it may have been prudent to take Douglas out (and I'd need to watch the tape to see if there was any pressing reason to). In any event, the decision to not take him cost the Rockets only 1 point in the grand scheme of things, and therefore was not a big deal. Basically, I can't see what you're up in arms about ttdn.

    ST
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago It's just the discrepancy of how they treat Harden and how they treat the rest. Harden is treated as INFALLIBLE, while the rest are treated like crap. I mean Douglas sucked it up, then got hot for a few minutes, and then SUCKED it up. If they would have put Lin back in earlier, we would have won this game, or made it close. It's not about rest, don't lie like that. If anybody needs rest, it's harden. Some of you guys are making it seem like we're making this stuff up, when we're not. I understand that you don't really care, but don't say it's for rest or Douglas was doing good. He got SCHOOLED by Andre Miller. Almost as bad as getting schooled by Hinrich.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    Taurusboy, on 01 February 2013 - 10:31 AM said:


    Can they send the coaches to D league?


    Exhibit A... :P
  • Taurusboy says 1 YEAR ago Can they send the coaches to D league?
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago Am I the only one around here that thinks Kade has made 2-3 new accounts and is using them all intermittently to "bandwagon" and trumpet his opinions?

    I have taken to ignoring any posts with his "flavor"....dude's just a troll.
  • hubeijames says 1 YEAR ago Denver is not a team to get upset over losing to (especially on the road). We simply don't match up well with Denver. They can match our pace easily, and they have a defensive specialist (Iggy) who can really limit Harden. Our guys mostly had a good game regardless. We just got unlucky with Gallinari suddenly getting hot in the 4th and our 3-pt shooters being ice cold all game long.
  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago

    amacbrooks12, on 31 January 2013 - 15:20 PM said:


    myjohnlai :

    I am so sick and tired of people blaming the coaching staff for a loss, but when we win by 45 or go on a win streak they get no credit whatsoever. Mchale and the coaching staff actually did a great job in this game. The offense was flowing, Parsons Harden and Lin all had 20 point games and Asik had another ridiculous double double. It was a close game all the way until the 4th. Lin was obviously taken out for rest, and Douglas played quite well with his steals on defense and scoring. It all fell apart because of DEFENSE, TURNOVERS AND FT SHOOTING in a small period during the 4th. Its not really Mchales fault that Gallinari was making ridiculous contested threes and it's not his fault we missed 11 whole FT's. When Denver made a run Mchale actually made an adjustment by putting Lin back in and motivating the team. We came back and made it a game it was just too late. So please stop blaming the coaching staff for everything bad that happens.



    Completely agree with you amacbrooks.
  • thenit says 1 YEAR ago #amacbrooks12

    Look the coaching staff has been insconsistent with their decision. Why would you sit Lin after 5 minutes in the 3rd Quarter. Obviously its not to rest him, if that is the case Lin is way out of shape and they were on a mini run when he took him out. Douglas had a decent game, but he didn't light up the scoreboard to insert him after 5 minutes into the 3rd. Also 2pat was doing pretty well shooting 4-6 and 5 rebounds, pretty good defence.

    There is a double standard, e.g Harden had 2 turnovers in the 4th in 2 straight possesion, one where he WALKED back and the other slowly jogging back, where the nuggest hit a 3 and a dunk. Harden deserves to be criticized for lack of effort defensively because he is only pacing himself for offence. I'll put it this way, look at the superstars who wins championships, they play both defence and offence e.g Lebron, Jordan, Kobe, Garnett. Others who hash't won it are T-mac, Carter, Melo. Those are great offensive talents but they don't win because they dont even play defence. Harden is an top 5 offensive player but way below average defender.

    The coaching staff gets the blame because he they seems to screw with the lineup too much, Parsons had a great game but somehow Delfino took some of the minutes from him despite shooting poorly and playing weak defence, like the time when he just runs under a nuggets player for an and-one.
  • amacbrooks12 says 1 YEAR ago myjohnlai :

    I am so sick and tired of people blaming the coaching staff for a loss, but when we win by 45 or go on a win streak they get no credit whatsoever. Mchale and the coaching staff actually did a great job in this game. The offense was flowing, Parsons Harden and Lin all had 20 point games and Asik had another ridiculous double double. It was a close game all the way until the 4th. Lin was obviously taken out for rest, and Douglas played quite well with his steals on defense and scoring. It all fell apart because of DEFENSE, TURNOVERS AND FT SHOOTING in a small period during the 4th. Its not really Mchales fault that Gallinari was making ridiculous contested threes and it's not his fault we missed 11 whole FT's. When Denver made a run Mchale actually made an adjustment by putting Lin back in and motivating the team. We came back and made it a game it was just too late. So please stop blaming the coaching staff for everything bad that happens.
  • myjohnlai says 1 YEAR ago Who is playing!!!!
    The coaches are destroying the team .

    Last time they did it. The Rocket went on a 7 game losing streaks.
    Congratulations to McHale and Sampson.
    They do it again today.
  • myjohnlai says 1 YEAR ago Mr. 4th Quarter was yanked out of the game watching. This is not the first time. Then nuggets start pulling away. Not until they pulled away by more than a dozen points.

    Lin was reinserted. It was too late!!!!!!

    If you wanted to sub. Why didn't they take Harden out. He played 41 minutes!!!

    A BIG DOUBLE STANDARD.
    It's the coaches who screwed up again.
    They just can't wait to take LIN out of the game.
  • Red94 says 1 YEAR ago New post: Denver Nuggets 118, Houston Rockets 110: Nuggets Continue to Outshoot Intruders on Sight
  • datruth says 1 YEAR ago why change your rotation. you just won three straight games. you beat hornets by 18, you beat the nets by 13 and then you bet jazz by 45. why change what was working and winning games. everytime this team start turning a corner, mchale start changing things.why why why why
  • thenit says 1 YEAR ago And now he subs Lin in when they Nuggets are ahead by 5
  • thenit says 1 YEAR ago Watching the game, seriously don't know what Mchale is doing. Houston went on a nice little run had a 6 point lead in after 5 minutes in the 3rd quarter and takes Lin out, despite not doing anything to deserve that and douglas has played OK but nothing to warrant sitting Lin at that spot. McHale is so fucking irrational sometimes with his rotation, same with sitting Patterson for an extended period.