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More Morey: Rockets Owner Plans Contract Extension For GM

From the Houston Chronicle:

“His contract is up next year, I believe,” Alexander said on Saturday. “We’ll re-up him. Daryl knows that I judge him all the time. I’ve told him. He’s not shy about it, either. He just knows that’s the way I operate. Why wouldn’t I? The general manager is the one person in your organization you can really judge. He can make good moves or bad moves. This year, I think he’s made three terrific moves.”

Those moves would be the trade for Harden and the signing of Asik and Lin. Les Alexander’s statement shouldn’t come as a surprise.

The biggest knock on Morey since he took over in 2007 had been his inability to sign an All-Star caliber player. Now he has one in James Harden, and he has the cap space to add another this summer. It’s also interesting to consider that this team is now entirely one of Morey’s making–an extremely young, playoff-bound group with cap space to add a star, led by one of the most dynamic scorers in the world.

Like so many of the men he manages, Daryl Morey is at the peak of his performance during a contract year.

 

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About the author: John Eby got on the Rockets bandwagon in 1994 and never got off. He is a public relations guy and recovering TV journalist living in South Carolina.

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Total comments: 221
  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago

    Excuse me, but your metric system sucks....it's too vague. Rodman was a great rebounder, but like johnny said, the doubling off of him gave him more oportunities to get the rebound (which he exceled at), but I'd take Chuck over Rodman any time, even though when I think about Chuck, all I hear is "I get other things waxed too" or "ain't no shame in my game". Hilarious!

  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago

    Kidd is the best short rebounder.

    Rondo will get to a similar level once he retires....funny thing about Kidd: he has the record for most turnovers in a single game in two different franchises (Suns and Nets), just a fact, :D

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    Well, if you're going short rebounder I give it to Rondo....his numbers are comparable to Kidd's and he's 3 inches shorter.

    As for Chuck, I do give him bonus points. We're talking about a guy who averaged 22 and 12 while shooting 54% over his entire career. Wow. He played PF, at 6'6", and dominated against the bruisers of the 80's and 90's. He was also the best player on every team he was on and had a bulls-eye from opposing defenses. He is the epitome of the technique over height argument. Best of all time? Maybe not, but he is definitely in the conversation. Some reports list him at 6'4" or so.....it's hard to trust listed heights. Hakeem was always listed at 7' but was actually closer to 6'10".

  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    Kidd is the best short rebounder.

  • 2016Champions says 1 YEAR ago

    Hmm I never thought of that, Barkley makes a compelling case depending on how many bonus points you want to givehim for being only 6-6 and carrying such a heavy offensive load.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    Their context is relevant too. In thinking about rebounding this much I've begun to reconsider my stance that Wilt or Russell deserve the crown either...I'm starting to talk myself into Charles Barkely. The guy was solid on both ends of the floor, did it for a long time, and I'm pretty sure there is no one shorter than him on the list (at least that high up). The Round Mound of Rebound!!!!

    michael-jordan-charles-barkley.jpg?w=640

  • 2016Champions says 1 YEAR ago

    I see what you're saying, but I think the advantages Wilt and Russell had by playing in a weak era outweights the advantages Rodman had by just having one task.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    I'm sure Isiah Thomas watched alot of games too, that doesn't mean he was good at talent analysis. There's a reason why 29GM's in the NBA incorporate analystics, maybe you should too.

    I know you're relatively new here, but surely you have figured out that 99% of us are on board with analytics. I read the article you posted. I don't disagree with the guy's math. I will also point out the author acknowledged that the numbers only went so far and it is just as likely Rodman is nothing more than a role player with one advanced skill. Rodman spent a lot of time coming off the bench and playing limited minutes throughout his career--which supports the previous statement.

    I cannot emphasize enough the relevance of HOW he went about it. He had one job. He got paid to do one thing. He made sure to get it done at all costs. He stole rebounds from teammates. He never had to worry about where to be on offense because he had no offensive assignment besides get the rebound. He was so horrific at shooting the opposing team would double off of him to help guard Jordan leaving him easy lanes to get the rebound. His stats were inflated by virtue of how he played the game...it was only successful when paired with great teams that could overcome his deficiencies (the pistons, spurs, and bulls)...everywhere else tried it and found he takes more off the table than he puts on it. He is the Phil Jackson of rebounding. Yeah, Phil has the most rings and he is a great coach; however, I don't think he is the greatest and it has to be taken into account that he led some of the strongest teams ever assembled--his stats must be viewed in context. Rodman's numbers also have to be looked at in FULL context to understand them.

    Here is a list of the all-time leaders in FG%

    Here is a list of the all-time leaders in 3FG%

    Now, in looking at those, would you argue that any of those guys are the best shooters the NBA has ever seen? Funny enough, Rodman is #49 on the FG% list--and I promise you he was not good at it. Obviously, there is context to consider here....

    Don't believe me that Rodman made his money the way I described. Check out the splits between offensive and defensive rebounding %...

    Here is the offensive rebounding % list

    Here is the defensive rebounding % list

    He made his money on the offensive end the way I described earlier. He was a specialist that could only, ONLY, thrive next to a star. His top seasons all came playing with the Pistons, the Spurs (David Robinson in his prime), and the Bulls. His numbers spiked in those years and, strangely, only the last two with the Pistons.

    I'm happy to continue debating (we really should open a new thread). Let's keep it respectful and fun.

  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    So basically you're saying you would rather try to analyze talent the way Isiah Thomas did rather than the way Daryl Morey does?

    no not at all ...........i'm saying you kept rodman. i'm taking wilt.... nothing more nothing less.

  • 2016Champions says 1 YEAR ago

    So basically you're saying you would rather try to analyze talent the way Isiah Thomas did rather than the way Daryl Morey does?

  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago

    I'm sure Isiah Thomas watched alot of games too, that doesn't mean he was good at talent analysis. There's a reason why 29 GM's in the NBA incorporate analystics, maybe you should too.


    What good are analystics when you know Kobe is going to shoot 100% of the time.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    I'm sure Isiah Thomas watched alot of games too, that doesn't mean he was good at talent analysis. There's a reason why 29GM's in the NBA incorporate analystics, maybe you should too.

    so what you are really saying is analystics has no flaws? it may be good in helping make sound judgements, but sometimes you have to go with gut feelings. you knowthey did play this game b4 analystics came along. if analystics tell you rodman is a better player than wilt then roll with that i'm taking wilt. :lol:

  • 2016Champions says 1 YEAR ago

    I'm sure Isiah Thomas watched alot of games too, that doesn't mean he was good at talent analysis. There's a reason why 29GM's in the NBA incorporate analystics, maybe you should too.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    This conversation is silly :D

    I know that height helps, but only if paired with the other qualities....otherwise, you are just rebounding whatever hits you in the hands.

    You can analyze all you want. I watched Rodman his whole career. There is a reason he got passed around.....I'm also not positive he is 6'7"...I know he is listed at that height, but I always thought he was about 6'9".

    Jordan is 6'6"

    hi-res-1396636_display_image.jpg?1358205

    And Phil Jackson is 6'8"

    rodman3_120320.jpg

    It doesn't really matter. I recognize Rodman was a great rebounder, but he does not get best of all time from me.

  • 2016Champions says 1 YEAR ago Daryl Morey is a genius at finding underrated talent
    Mitch Kupchak is just the GM of a very desirable destination
  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago

    But if you ignore analytics all together, then you become the Lakers.


    So that's how you win all those champions.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    But if you ignore analytics all together, then you become the Lakers.

  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    The analytics speak for itself, all you need to do is read and comprehend it. Would Rodman rebound less if he had a bigger role on offense? Maybe a bit. Would Wilt and Russell rebound less if they played in an era where the pace was slower and less shots were missed? Definately, by a significant amount.

    you know there is a point where stats don't show you the hold picture right?

  • 2016Champions says 1 YEAR ago

    The analytics speak for itself, all you need to do is read and comprehend it. Would Rodman rebound less if he had a bigger role on offense? Maybe a bit. Would Wilt and Russell rebound less if they played in an era where the pace was slower and less shots were missed? Definately, by a significant amount.

  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    If you want Rodman to be the best rebounder then you can have him. I will tell you this, he could only survive on complete teams that were so good offensively they didn't need a 5th player....he was that bad. Pistons, Bulls, Spurs....they brought him in and said, you have one job: get the ball. He did so with reckless abandon and often at the expense of doing anything else useful--he was a one-dimensional basketball player.

    As far as height goes...it's largely irrelevant. Rebounding is about reading the bounce, creating space, and timing your jump. We have all seen plenty of 7 footers who can't rebound for s**t.

    I agree with you. let them have rodman and I will take wilt or russell anyday. they probably never saw wilt or russell play so they have no point of reference for this arguement. I hate to down rodman. he was a good rebounder. but not on the level of wilt or russell. now if they had said rodman was the greatest rebounder under 6-8 I might have rode with that, but of all time? I won't waste anymore time trying to convince them.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    Height is NOT largely irrelevant. It's not the most important factor, but it still is a factor.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    If you want Rodman to be the best rebounder then you can have him. I will tell you this, he could only survive on complete teams that were so good offensively they didn't need a 5th player....he was that bad. Pistons, Bulls, Spurs....they brought him in and said, you have one job: get the ball. He did so with reckless abandon and often at the expense of doing anything else useful--he was a one-dimensional basketball player.

    As far as height goes...it's largely irrelevant. Rebounding is about reading the bounce, creating space, and timing your jump. We have all seen plenty of 7 footers who can't rebound for s**t.

  • 2016Champions says 1 YEAR ago
    Clealy you do need to do some reading because you fail to comprehend that Wilt and Russell had the huge advantage of playing in an era that was before their time. There's a big difference between grabbing rebounds in an era when the average big man is 6-7, and grabbing rebounds in an erawhen the average big man is 6-10. Why is that so hard to understand?
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    2016Champions:

    I don't have to read a story to know what wilt and russell did........I watched the games. 1st to take a player from anyera and compair him to a player from another era is a debate we could have all day.....sorry I don't have allll day :lol:however who says wilt would not have dominated during rodmans time the same as he did in his time. same for russell. I've heard the arguement that players are better physically overall, but wilt and russell would have had acsess to the same training and sports medical treatment that today's players do. basketball is a god given talent. either you can play or you can't. rodman was a rebounding machine, however so was wilt and russell. yet they weren't just rebounders like rodman. they dominated the game from both ends. something rodman could only dream about. rodman outplaying russell or wilt in a game for the ages...........unimaginable :lol:

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    Totally, they are good friends in the true sense and agreed phaketrash, I got some nicknames for my best friends that are worse than Dork Elvis but yes, each unto their own. Besides, come on Dork Elvis seems pretty cool as far as nicknames go. (I assume there is some old Lebron James thread that can be revived from the dead so this can continue elsewhere, thanks gents)

    Agreed. If it didn't make sense though, I'd think it was dumb. But he totally looks like a Dork Elvis. I'm sry, but must give credit where credit is due haha. Obviously I don't call my friends their nicknames in the media, but that is because neither of us have any contact with the media. Both Morey and Simmons are "quasi-public figures" so it changes the dynamic. I highly doubt Simmons would be doing it if Morey was actually uncomfortable with it lol.

  • 2016Champions says 1 YEAR ago

    2016Champions:

    rodman better than wilt and russell? rodman couldn't even hold wilt's orrussell'sjock strap :lol:wilt was a beast both on the reboundand score board. rodman was a great rebounder. but compairing him to wilt is like compairing jellybeans and watermelons :lol:a better match would be wes uncell. I think rodman was a heck of a rebounder to, but to compair him to either of thosetwo he would be in over his head.

    Educate yourselfby reading this -http://skepticalsports.com/?p=331

    Here's just a small part of that article I'll highlight for you

    It is true that, barring some dramatic change in the way the game is played, Chamberlain’s record of 27.2 rebounds per game, set in the 1960-61 season, will stand forever. This is because, due to the fast pace and terrible shooting, the typical game in 1960-61 featured an average of 147 rebounding opportunities. During Rodman’s 7-year reign as NBA rebounding champion (from 1991-92 through 1997-98), the typical game featured just 84 rebounding opportunities. Without further inquiry, this difference alone means that Chamberlain’s record 27.2 rpg would roughly translate to 15.4 in Rodman’s era – over a full rebound less than Rodman’s ~16.7 rpg average over that span.

  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago Totally, they are good friends in the true sense and agreed phaketrash, I got some nicknames for my best friends that are worse than Dork Elvis but yes, each unto their own. Besides, come on Dork Elvis seems pretty cool as far as nicknames go. (I assume there is some old Lebron James thread that can be revived from the dead so this can continue elsewhere, thanks gents)
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    Being called that in private is one thing, but to be called that constantly in the media must get annoying, right?

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    Agree about Rodman being one of the best rebounders of all time. Also, Dork Elvis is something that I wouldn't want to be called. But to each his own.

    Haha yeah they're really good friends. You should see the nicknames I have for my good friends o.O

  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    2016Champions:

    rodman better than wilt and russell? rodman couldn't even hold wilt's orrussell'sjock strap :lol:wilt was a beast both on the reboundand score board. rodman was a great rebounder. but compairing him to wilt is like compairing jellybeans and watermelons :lol:a better match would be wes uncell. I think rodman was a heck of a rebounder to, but to compair him to either of thosetwo he would be in over his head.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    Agree about Rodman being one of the best rebounders of all time. Also, Dork Elvis is something that I wouldn't want to be called. But to each his own.

  • 2016Champions says 1 YEAR ago

    I would never argue that Jordan didn't have help. On the contrary, I consider his teams to be very complete.

    I also would never suggest Mo Williams was anything more than a good player.

    This "ghost" is more than just the number of rings. It's all the moments he rose up and wowed us with an amazing performance, or play, or last shot on the highest of stages. He became a legend in his own time. He slayed all the giants of his time, one by one, until no one doubted his supremacy. He left teams, arguably better than his, crumpled on the floor unable to best him in a series--he did this over and over. He loved to be challenged and doubted and to laugh at, glare at, and shrug off all of them as he not only did what could not be done, but did it better. By the end, he was mystique personified and much of the world set its collective will against him just to see him fall--and not even that could slow him. In a land of giants, his figure was most imposing...and still is to this day.

    I said before, I have no problem with Lebron going to Miami--good for him. I simply believe that when we look back one day after Lebron is done he will not be able to surpass that level. It doesn't matter. He doesn't need to. LeBron James will most likely leave the second biggest ghost of all time in his wake that others will be measured against unfairly.

    Regarding Jordan's teammates, "of all time" is too strong to describe them...."of their time" I think is more reasonable. The best rebounder of all time would have to be someone like Wilt, or Russell. Rodman ranks #23 all-time in total rebounds and #10 in RPG--he was an excellent defender as well, but he had the advantage of having only those two jobs.

    Currently, we are watching the best perimeter defender of all-time: LBJ. I would also put Ron Artest (in his prime) ahead of Pip and I've heard that Dr. J was excellent defensively too.

    Cleveland is an interesting case. They were so bad they won the first overall pick: Lebron. Lebron was so good he immediately took them out of the lottery so they had a tough time drafting more talent. The front office lost/traded away their best young players. They drafted poorly for the most part and were unable to let the players they got develop. Since no one wanted to go to Cleveland. Lebron had to leave. It's not his fault. But it is something he will still be measured on because it is a part of sports; although, I would also argue that it is an aspect of fandom that is dying. So maybe, when Lebron's day comes, he won't be judged the way I think he will since those judging him will have different viewpoints and mindsets than now.

    You can't seriously think Russell or Wilt are better rebounders than Rodman... when Wilt was drafted there were 4 players in the league taller than 6-8 including Wilt and Russell. Rodman was 6-7 playing in an era where the average big man is 6-10....

  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago

    Where did Dork Elvis come from? Does Simmons just dislike Morey, or is it playful. Kind of sounds a bid childish and mean to be honest.


    It's playful. Simmons and Morey are good friends, from Morey's time with the Celtics. I listen to Simmons podcast for 45 minutes with Morey a few years back and you can honestly tell they enjoy talking to one another.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    Where did Dork Elvis come from? Does Simmons just dislike Morey, or is it playful. Kind of sounds a bid childish and mean to be honest.

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    Right, in the Morey thread, come on guys show dork Elvis some respect.

    FS, dont you see? This is foreshadowing Morey's future 2014 acquisition of him. Welcome to Houston LBJ! haha

    Get it done Morey!

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    Right, in the Morey thread, come on guys show dork Elvis some respect.

    Ha, tis true....maybe we should open a new thread if we're going to pursue this further....

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    The way I see it, you got it the other way around,Lebron didn't leave the chance of surpassing Jordan's ghost when he left Cleveland - he attained the chance by leaving Cleveland for Miami. Unless you seriously think Lebron could win 6 rings with Mo Williams as his best teammate....

    Do you think Jordan would have won 6 rings without the incredible supporting cast he had? The best perimeter defender of all time in Pippen, arguably the best coach of all time in PJ, the best rebounder of all time in Rodman for the 2nd 3peat. Replace those guys with the caliber of Mo Williams, Varejao and Mike Brown, and I highly doubt Jordan wins 6 rings and there would be alot of people usingthe flawed "rings" argumentto hail somebody else as the greatest of all time.

    Only by attaining a better supporting cast was Lebron given the chance to "surpass Jordan's ghost",and before you remind me that Mo Williams was an all-star, let me remind you that he made the all-star team as an injury replacement selected by David Stern. Not to mention Pippen is arguably a top 50 player of all time, I don't even know if Mo Williams would make the top thousand.

    I would never argue that Jordan didn't have help. On the contrary, I consider his teams to be very complete.

    I also would never suggest Mo Williams was anything more than a good player.

    This "ghost" is more than just the number of rings. It's all the moments he rose up and wowed us with an amazing performance, or play, or last shot on the highest of stages. He became a legend in his own time. He slayed all the giants of his time, one by one, until no one doubted his supremacy. He left teams, arguably better than his, crumpled on the floor unable to best him in a series--he did this over and over. He loved to be challenged and doubted and to laugh at, glare at, and shrug off all of them as he not only did what could not be done, but did it better. By the end, he was mystique personified and much of the world set its collective will against him just to see him fall--and not even that could slow him. In a land of giants, his figure was most imposing...and still is to this day.

    I said before, I have no problem with Lebron going to Miami--good for him. I simply believe that when we look back one day after Lebron is done he will not be able to surpass that level. It doesn't matter. He doesn't need to. LeBron James will most likely leave the second biggest ghost of all time in his wake that others will be measured against unfairly.

    Regarding Jordan's teammates, "of all time" is too strong to describe them...."of their time" I think is more reasonable. The best rebounder of all time would have to be someone like Wilt, or Russell. Rodman ranks #23 all-time in total rebounds and #10 in RPG--he was an excellent defender as well, but he had the advantage of having only those two jobs.

    Currently, we are watching the best perimeter defender of all-time: LBJ. I would also put Ron Artest (in his prime) ahead of Pip and I've heard that Dr. J was excellent defensively too.

    Cleveland is an interesting case. They were so bad they won the first overall pick: Lebron. Lebron was so good he immediately took them out of the lottery so they had a tough time drafting more talent. The front office lost/traded away their best young players. They drafted poorly for the most part and were unable to let the players they got develop. Since no one wanted to go to Cleveland. Lebron had to leave. It's not his fault. But it is something he will still be measured on because it is a part of sports; although, I would also argue that it is an aspect of fandom that is dying. So maybe, when Lebron's day comes, he won't be judged the way I think he will since those judging him will have different viewpoints and mindsets than now.

  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago Right, in the Morey thread, come on guys show dork Elvis some respect.
  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago Who is this Le Bron that people are discussing?
  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago And the LeBron debates rage on...
  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago

    2016champions: I'll give you that he might have never accomplished any rings in Cleveland, but "The Decision" and the roster presentation with the "not one, not two, not three...." was way too much. He is truly dominant, no one can truly beat him one on one, he is hall of fame bound, but his legacy got pretty damaged because of the choices he made, or at least, the way he handled the whole "leaving Cleveland to go to Miami" thing. The only way to beat Jordan's legacy right now is if he wins something like 10 rings, even being as dominant as he is right now and probably for the next three or four years.

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    The way I see it, you got it the other way around,Lebron didn't leave the chance of surpassing Jordan's ghost when he left Cleveland - he attained the chance by leaving Cleveland for Miami. Unless you seriously think Lebron could win 6 rings with Mo Williams as his best teammate....

    Do you think Jordan would have won 6 rings without the incredible supporting cast he had? The best perimeter defender of all time in Pippen, arguably the best coach of all time in PJ, the best rebounder of all time in Rodman for the 2nd 3peat. Replace those guys with the caliber of Mo Williams, Varejao and Mike Brown, and I highly doubt Jordan wins 6 rings and there would be alot of people usingthe flawed "rings" argumentto hail somebody else as the greatest of all time.

    Only by attaining a better supporting cast was Lebron given the chance to "surpass Jordan's ghost",and before you remind me that Mo Williams was an all-star, let me remind you that he made the all-star team as an injury replacement selected by David Stern. Not to mention Pippen is arguably a top 50 player of all time, I don't even know if Mo Williams would make the top thousand.

    I never faulted Lebron for leaving Cleveland, though I too felt how JG did on Lebron's "legacy" and "greatness" -- but I definitely didn't think he'd achieve it in Cleveland, or NYC for that matter. Personally, I would have liked to see him go to Chicago. Made the most sense to me (even if Wade would have fit the role better there). Would have made a great team right away, yet no one would have questioned whose team it was (esp. at that time) and it'd give him a legit chance to carry without the whole "he ran for help!" atmosphere/criticism. Only down side really is playing for the Bulls organization in the shadow of MJ's history there...but hey, Rose is doing it! lol.

    I don't like "The Decision" but it seemed pretty clear that he wasn't going to achieve anything in Cleveland.

  • 2016Champions says 1 YEAR ago

    I think his first year and second year. Then they lost him for NOTHING.

    Yep, I was going to mention this when someone said "Do you seriously think stars wouldn't have came to play with Lebron if he waited longer?". After 7 years it was pretty clear no one was coming, and Boozer hated Cleveland so bad that he tricked the organization into buying out his contract on the false promise that he will resign. Even fading stars like Jason Kidd didn't want to play for ClevelanddespiteLebron's love for him.

  • 2016Champions says 1 YEAR ago

    You are both right and wrong here. We are not solely discussing athletic "greatness"--if that were the case you would be very much correct. We are discussing greatness in the context of historical lore. In this context abstract values come into play. We remember selectively. Memories become altered and shift in relation to our emotion towards them. The media driven nonsense is just that. The problem with the media is they have to find things to talk about for 24 hours a day 365 days a year now. There is only so much actual news to report....

    When I speak about Lebron's greatness it is in the context of legend and how he will be remembered once we no longer get to watch him play....at that point, the ramifications of his choices will begin to shape public perception and create a lasting, ultimate impression. I doubt anyone will ever argue that he is/was one of the greatest athletes to ever set foot on the court. No one will question how he dominated and created a stratosphere so high that only he could live in it. He will get credit for being a champion and all that other hullabaloo....yet, he left the one chance he had of surpassing Jordan's ghost when he left Cleveland (unless he wins 7+ championships....then maybe). Again, it's not a bad thing--just a thing-- and I don't think he will mind when it's all said and done.

    The way I see it, you got it the other way around,Lebron didn't leave the chance of surpassing Jordan's ghost when he left Cleveland - he attained the chance by leaving Cleveland for Miami. Unless you seriously think Lebron could win 6 rings with Mo Williams as his best teammate....

    Do you think Jordan would have won 6 rings without the incredible supporting cast he had? The best perimeter defender of all time in Pippen, arguably the best coach of all time in PJ, the best rebounder of all time in Rodman for the 2nd 3peat. Replace those guys with the caliber of Mo Williams, Varejao and Mike Brown, and I highly doubt Jordan wins 6 rings and there would be alot of people usingthe flawed "rings" argumentto hail somebody else as the greatest of all time.

    Only by attaining a better supporting cast was Lebron given the chance to "surpass Jordan's ghost",and before you remind me that Mo Williams was an all-star, let me remind you that he made the all-star team as an injury replacement selected by David Stern. Not to mention Pippen is arguably a top 50 player of all time, I don't even know if Mo Williams would make the top thousand.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    I think his first year and second year. Then they lost him for NOTHING.

  • Ostrow says 1 YEAR ago

    They had Boozer for a while too

  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    I don't understand the reasoning behind staying with a team that has an incompetent GM, coach, and supporting players. Cleveland's team looked like this.

    Tier 1 guys = Lebron

    Tier 2 guys = Nobody

    Tier 3 guys = Mo, Big Z

    Tier 4 guys = Jamison, Hickson, Shaq, Booby, Hughes, West, Sczerbiak, etc....

    Kind of hard to win like that. Detroit won a chip with 5 tier 2/3 guys whose games complemented each other. Nobody has won a ring with a core full of scrubs.

  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago

    I wasn't born at that time :D but I promise I'll take your advice on that

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    That it is....I was there in late october last year......very cold and windy....great public transportation though!

    Now, what's this about not having seen Ferris Bueller's Day Off????? It's a little dated now, but one of the greatest movies of the 80's....and all-time, really.

  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago

    watch Ferris Bueller's Day Off....that's Chicago mid-80's.....of course, some parts of chicago are un-appealing...like most cities.

    Maybe I'll take a look at it, thanks. I meant it because I've heard that Chicago is very windy and cold, making it unappealing for most people.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    If you are the man, people will follow you wherever. By the way, maybe I'm saying stupids things, but from what I've heard (I'm not American), Chicago wasn't very appealing either back in the 80's-90's, city wise.....

    watch Ferris Bueller's Day Off....that's Chicago mid-80's.....of course, some parts of chicago are un-appealing...like most cities.

  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago

    Silly hater talk.

    Fair enough, but still, no need to judge, feel free to restrain yourself from any comments if you find this conversation idiotic.

  • 2016Champions says 1 YEAR ago

    Silly hater talk.

  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago And wins 3 or 4.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago Unless he goes back to Cleveland.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    lebron may one day win 7 rings(I doubt it, but maybe) yet he will never reach MJ orhakeemstatus(IMO) because there is something to be said for a star who goes to a place where winning has been all they have everwanted, but could not get and turning that place into the center of attention by winning it all. this is what makes basketball gods. he would have been greater(IMO) if he had won 1 ring in cleveland. no matter what he does from this point on in his career he will never live the fact down that he could not carry cleveland the last mile. fair or not....that public perception.

  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago

    Who wants to live in Cleveland? And how do you know that he didn't TRY to bring Bosh and Wade to Cleveland? I bet you he did. They probably said no. You're speculating.

    If you are the man, people will follow you wherever. By the way, maybe I'm saying stupids things, but from what I've heard (I'm not American), Chicago wasn't very appealing either back in the 80's-90's, city wise.....

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    I think there is a little truth to that....Cleveland is not a premier city when it comes to quality of life...especially for the young, jet-setting nba elite. Miami, on the other hand, is a no-brainer.

    Much like the old cattle towns, followed by rail towns, these days it is the old industry cities that are slowly diminishing and dying. No one likes to admit it, but it's going to happen unless they can pull a post-WWII Japan move and make a major industrial shift on the fly.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    Who wants to live in Cleveland? And how do you know that he didn't TRY to bring Bosh and Wade to Cleveland? I bet you he did. They probably said no. You're speculating.

  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago

    Jordan had Phil and Pippen. Lebron had Mike Brown and Mo Williams. That's the difference between MJ and Lebron.

    And yet, he made it to the Finals....like I said before, he would have definitely brought over some fellas down to Cleveland, and we wouldn't be talking about this.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    Jordan had Phil and Pippen. Lebron had Mike Brown and Mo Williams. That's the difference between MJ and Lebron.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    The "rings" argument is highly overrated. More rings doesn't make Horry better than Malone, so why should it be any different with anyone else? They way we analyze greatness should be the same way Morey analyzes talent -with the use of game tape and advanced statistics - not with the amount of rings the player has won, or how he won them, or whether or not he needed to change teams to win them - that's just media driven nonsense.

    You are both right and wrong here. We are not solely discussing athletic "greatness"--if that were the case you would be very much correct. We are discussing greatness in the context of historical lore. In this context abstract values come into play. We remember selectively. Memories become altered and shift in relation to our emotion towards them. The media driven nonsense is just that. The problem with the media is they have to find things to talk about for 24 hours a day 365 days a year now. There is only so much actual news to report....

    When I speak about Lebron's greatness it is in the context of legend and how he will be remembered once we no longer get to watch him play....at that point, the ramifications of his choices will begin to shape public perception and create a lasting, ultimate impression. I doubt anyone will ever argue that he is/was one of the greatest athletes to ever set foot on the court. No one will question how he dominated and created a stratosphere so high that only he could live in it. He will get credit for being a champion and all that other hullabaloo....yet, he left the one chance he had of surpassing Jordan's ghost when he left Cleveland (unless he wins 7+ championships....then maybe). Again, it's not a bad thing--just a thing-- and I don't think he will mind when it's all said and done.

  • 2016Champions says 1 YEAR ago

    The "rings" argument is highly overrated. More rings doesn't make Horry better than Malone, so why should it be any different with anyone else? They way we analyze greatness should be the same way Morey analyzes talent -with the use of game tape and advanced statistics - not with the amount of rings the player has won, or how he won them, or whether or not he needed to change teams to win them - that's just media driven nonsense.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    I think we'll see where he lands by who Cleveland drafts. If they draft a SF, they have no inside knowledge about Lebron. If they draft another big, or a backup guard, that's also telling since their biggest weakness is at SF with Gee.

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    No way. I think Napoleon had a better chance of going back to France than Lebron does of going back to Cleveland. I think Houston has a better chance of landing him than Cleveland.

    lol the Napoleon comment actually made me laugh out loud JG.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    ok. if it happens i will be incredibly shocked

  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago

    No way. I think Napoleon had a better chance of going back to France than Lebron does of going back to Cleveland. I think Houston has a better chance of landing him than Cleveland.


    Thompson is in his inner circle, Kyrie Irwing is the player he couldn't get to Cleveland when he was there. He owns a huge home he will never be able to sell there.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    No way. I think Napoleon had a better chance of going back to France than Lebron does of going back to Cleveland. I think Houston has a better chance of landing him than Cleveland.

  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago LeBron is going back to Cleveland in 2015. He will see WOW's ( what a terrible nickname to give yourself) body breaking down and go play with Irving.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    Agreed. He is essentially the opposite of an underdog. I believe that's called an undercat.

  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago

    He is completely entitled to do what he did, but doing that, there's no way to consider him as an underdog, at any level.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    That's fair. He made his choice and I think it is fair to say that, despite the championship in Miami, he lowered the bar for how "great" he will be perceived by the public. Winning championships is great. Doing it for your hometown (basically), elevating yourself and your team to previously unattained heights is legendary. He passed on that opportunity. I don't fault him, but it is a choice he made and can never have back. Even if he walks away from the game with 6 or more rings I think he will still lose points for how he chose to do it. As long as he can sleep at night (and I'm sure he can) then who cares?

  • 2016Champions says 1 YEAR ago

    Lebron spent 7 years there, how long did you want him to wait?

  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago

    It would have been a great story to get that first ring with the city you lived in your entire life. That would be a fairy tale worthy of true admiration, being the local idol ever since you were a young kid in highschool and playing for the team you probably rooted for before you had a career and rooted only for yourself. "The decision" was a low blow to a city who suffers greatly and have no satisfactions since forever....that's why I didn't like him. If you are that great, you'll win that ring eventually (I know L.A. has infinitely more purchasing power, but Buss found a way to reinvent the team to give Kobe a run for another ring). If LeBron have truly wanted and Cleveland's front office was smarter, Bosh and Wade could have been Cavs, them or some other superstars, do you really think that noone would have wanted to play for Cleveland if Lebron had stuck around there?

    PD: Forgive me if I conjugated verbs like hell..... :Dmy English is way too rusty

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    For me, it will be difficult for any current or future player to give methat overall good feeling for their first ring that I experienced when MJ won his first ring. I think it was more because of the obstacles he had to overcome to get to the top. Man oh man, those were some tough teams back in the late 1980's through the 1990's!! MJ had to get past (an eventually aging) Celtics team, the Pistons with their back to back championships, the Lakers with their back to back championships.

    I must admit that I had a soft place in my heart last year for LeBron but still now way his first ring even comes close to surpassing the obstacles MJ overcame to win his 1st and then to top it off with 5 additional rings!

    It's always hard for me to compare the difficulty of beating the competition across generations....the game is different. Lebron would have excelled in the physical 80's. Imagine Laimbeer going up for a hard foul on lebron and bron smacks him in the face mid-air and then dunks it....that would have been great.....and then they throw punches....the good ol' days when teams actually hated each other.

    It's true, the East was tough back then. I'm not saying MJ didn't have obstacles to overcome....of course he did....but it's a new world, and a player must defeat the on-court opponents as well as the off-court ones now more than ever. MJ's first title was good....probably on par with Lebron for me....Watching greatness is always a joy.

  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago Robert Horry > Michael Jordan.
  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    On Lebron, I agree with Ale11; however, his story is interesting. I was happy for him when he finally achieved a championship. Bearing the weight of expectations and massive public disapproval (not just from cleveland) while trudging through daily media barrages and having the whole world question everything about you is something I hope to never experience. LeBron overcoming that (even if it is with a little help from his friends) was good. No one deserves that and people should be ashamed. So, in that regard I did see him in a unique underdog role.

    Jordan never had that kind of obstacle....he left those obstacles in his wake for other "great players" to overcome. These days, you have to beat every other team...and Jordan's ghost....Kobe has 5 rings and can't do it....Duncan has 4 and no one even remembers he exists. Hakeem only exists in the memories of Houstonians. Eff you Michael Jordan!!!!! You ruined it for everyone!!!!!! :P

    For me, it will be difficult for any current or future player to give methat overall good feeling for their first ring that I experienced when MJ won his first ring. I think it was more because of the obstacles he had to overcome to get to the top. Man oh man, those were some tough teams back in the late 1980's through the 1990's!! MJ had to get past (an eventually aging) Celtics team, the Pistons with their back to back championships, the Lakers with their back to back championships.

    I must admit that I had a soft place in my heart last year for LeBron but still now way his first ring even comes close to surpassing the obstacles MJ overcame to win his 1st and then to top it off with 5 additional rings!

  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    Phaketrash, it seems your only concern is that McHale whispers in the players' ears.....maybe he handles it differently....maybe the asst. coach does it when you can't see....Pop does it his way....you like that....fine. Let's look at other facets besides whispering...

    Here are some articles that are pro-mchale...so don't read them if you aren't into it.

    This one really gives lots of insight to McHale's strategy and philosophy (my favorite read...also from a while ago)

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1545980-houston-rockets-coach-kevin-mchales-smartest-moves-of-the-season (short article)

    This one is from the pre-season...but interesting to read it now with hind-sight

    Here is a quote from Luis Scola during last year's season:

    "He's got his style just like every coach has his style," Scola said
    about McHale. "It will always be different from one coach to another. He
    likes to work, he really loves the game. We all know his history as a
    player, especially here in [TD Garden> in [Boston>. We all know how he
    loves to play, compete, work, and he really knows how to win. That's
    pretty much the main differences we've had this year, not that we didn't
    have them before, but this coach encourages them and embraces them so
    much."

    And finally, a little quip from McHale, "I've heard people talk about basketball, and I get a chuckle out of it, like it's some sort of rocket science. This is the only way to do this ... there's a million different ways to skin the cat."

    He's got quite a bit of maverick bravado in him....I like it....I think, in the beginning, he will upset a lot of people, and by the end, those same people will sing his praises.

    Great Post Johnny Gold!!! This why I stick around on this board, excellent links provided by members like TGF on numerous occasions whether or not they support your individual opinion and feelings on a certain player, coach or GM, etc.!!!

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    On Lebron, I agree with Ale11; however, his story is interesting. I was happy for him when he finally achieved a championship. Bearing the weight of expectations and massive public disapproval (not just from cleveland) while trudging through daily media barrages and having the whole world question everything about you is something I hope to never experience. LeBron overcoming that (even if it is with a little help from his friends) was good. No one deserves that and people should be ashamed. So, in that regard I did see him in a unique underdog role.

    Jordan never had that kind of obstacle....he left those obstacles in his wake for other "great players" to overcome. These days, you have to beat every other team...and Jordan's ghost....Kobe has 5 rings and can't do it....Duncan has 4 and no one even remembers he exists. Hakeem only exists in the memories of Houstonians. Eff you Michael Jordan!!!!! You ruined it for everyone!!!!!! :P

  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago

    Exactly my point. He, as an individual, never fitted the "underdog" role, joining Wade and Bosh had "favourite" written all over it. Obviously, losing to Dallas was an epic failure and he was even more pressured than Jordan ever was, but that's because he was the chosen one all along

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    I think in the context of failing to meet expectations, Lebron and Jordan in trying to get that first ring are comparable. That being said, one could argue that the fact Lebron joined 2 other stars and FAILED his first yr only means a greater fall, and thus, a larger hill of expectations to climb (and the greater joy of overcoming it).

  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago

    Detractors of LeBron (like me, for example) wanted his ring delayed as much as possible, but we all knew he was going to win one, and when you know that, clearly he is nowhere near being an underdog. Comparisons to Jordan aren't really something viable since Jordan never teamed with Magic or Bird to win his rings. As numbers go, he is definitely up there between the very best in the history, but as far as greatness goes, it's much easier to win when you have two of the best in the league playing with you. Althought I have to give him that he is dominant in many positions.

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    I know that question wasn't directed straight to me, but I have to intercede....NO, from the moment he was drafted, he was pointed as "the chosen one". Probably if it weren't that way, he would have gotten his ring earlier, because he wouldn't have those huge choking issues.

    Yeah I was just curious, with no real opinion one way or another. One of those iconic moments was Jordan finally getting his first championship. People saw it coming for Jordan pretty early on to (maybe not AS early as for Lebron). Was interested to know whether one could view Lebron in that same situation.

  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago

    Many stated some time ago that McHale was only a bridge towards handing the job to one of his assistants. We would be in the same current issue if that happens: great guys, capable, but unexperienced and not ready to coach a contender, isn't that what we are saying about McHale right now?

  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago

    And since we're already moving onto a tangent, would you say JG that Lebron was an "underdog" right up until he won his first ring?

    I know that question wasn't directed straight to me, but I have to intercede....NO, from the moment he was drafted, he was pointed as "the chosen one". Probably if it weren't that way, he would have gotten his ring earlier, because he wouldn't have those huge choking issues.

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    True Phaketrash you do often play devil's advocate quite well and I must confess I could be way off. Maybe McHale will be gone and Finch or some other coach is in Morey's plan. Of course the truth is probably somewhere in that gray area between all of our opinions and only time will be the truest verdict. I see that you have been a member for a few months now and I must say I enjoy your posts and believe you contribute quality discussion to our forum regardless of whether I agree with you or not, thanks.

    Thanks for the compliments! I enjoy this forum very much and the lively discussions that we all have. It's been a great learning experience for me.

    I think McHale is in Morey's plans now as Morey wants a coach to grow with the team. A "Phil Jackson" type probably would not mesh well with a team still trying to find its identity, getting new pieces, fighting for a playoff spot, etc. Not only would it be stressful from a coaching perspective, but from a GM's perspective, you'd get a more opinionated coach that could interfere with the GM's personnel decisions (as Morey is definitely not done with constructing the HOU team yet). Not as much of an issue with McHale, as of now haha.

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    I guess I'm a sucker for the underdog. For myself, success and achievement have always been a process of failure. The lessons learned and character built in reaching my goals have proved far more valuable and gratifying than any actual achievement. For this reason, I like to root for others who are trying to grow and succeed. Constructive criticism is fine in moderation. Mostly, I like to see the looks on people's faces when they finally overcome something that has been unattainable for so long. That kind of vicarious experience is a huge part of what I love about sports. Yeah, watching the Lebrons of the world is awe-inspiring and always a pleasure, but deep down...I'm always rooting for the underdog.

    And I understand that feeling, even when superstars achieve it (thinking Jordan's first ring). That failure tempers success and makes the latter more sweet is certainly true, though I sometimes also like to think of it from Les' perspective. As the owner, what would make business sense at times. <-- this has nothing to do with my posts in this thread haha.

    And since we're already moving onto a tangent, would you say JG that Lebron was an "underdog" right up until he won his first ring?

  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago True Phaketrash you do often play devil's advocate quite well and I must confess I could be way off. Maybe McHale will be gone and Finch or some other coach is in Morey's plan. Of course the truth is probably somewhere in that gray area between all of our opinions and only time will be the truest verdict. I see that you have been a member for a few months now and I must say I enjoy your posts and believe you contribute quality discussion to our forum regardless of whether I agree with you or not, thanks.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    I guess I'm a sucker for the underdog. For myself, success and achievement have always been a process of failure. The lessons learned and character built in reaching my goals have proved far more valuable and gratifying than any actual achievement. For this reason, I like to root for others who are trying to grow and succeed. Constructive criticism is fine in moderation. Mostly, I like to see the looks on people's faces when they finally overcome something that has been unattainable for so long. That kind of vicarious experience is a huge part of what I love about sports. Yeah, watching the Lebrons of the world is awe-inspiring and always a pleasure, but deep down...I'm always rooting for the underdog.

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    I feel like I may have to clear up my position a bit, as I do tend to play devil's advocate. ST's recent post echoes my current beliefs quite well. There are things I would like McHale to do better/differently, but I will admit that he may be doing them well ALREADY. My own personal impression, mostly from the first half of the season, was that it was lacking. That has changed over time and I'd be more than willing to agree that he's created a better atmosphere today. At the end of the day. do I think McHale is A POOR coach? Probably not. A particularly good one? No to that as well (his rotations are sort of weird -- seems obvious he's learning/growing with the team). Maybe it is good he is growing with the team and creating the atmosphere that he has, but that certainly doesn't stop me from pointing out that he is a grower/learner vs. one that has already grown/learned haha.

    Does that mean we should replace him? At the moment, I do not think we should. As ST alluded to, I have no idea how he does the out of game stuff, which matters more for a team NOT in contention (i.e., the current Rockets). Maybe the assistant coach does it all (though that spawns the argument of whether that is at the behest of McHale or not, where the latter points at McHale not deserving of the credit). I can only guess, as most of us can only do. McHale obviously doesn't have the experience other coaches have, but I'm not saying that matters too much because, again, I don't think for a mid-strata team, coaching choices matterthat much. Just my own personal viewpoint.

    Some say no one has made disgruntled quotes to the media -- I read some of the quotes made earlier in the season and even Scola's and I see nothing but tension. So much of it. Begrudging respect. It is the conflict of a person who LIKES the coach as a person, but not his style. Maybe that's changed. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm open to both possibilities, but I don't know if either necessarily forecloses the possibility of the opposite (that he isn't up to par in those areas). Who knows? At the end of the day, I see McHale as an average coach that is fine for the team now, but would not be ready (probably) for the team once it moves into contention. I'd like him to communicate more, or at least the PERCEPTION that he communicates better (either for my own benefit as a fan, or possibly, even for the benefit of a player), though I wouldn't replace him any time soon as it would seem rather pointless.

  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago

    I've come to take this view as well ST, and a large part of why I'm not clamoring for a coaching change at this point. We're not contenders right now anyways. Main thing the coach should be doing is building players' confidence and skills and teamwork, etc., i.e., other buzz words. McHale's possible faults don't lend to as many negative consequences given our current situation/time frame/expectations. Not sure that means I think he's a particularly good coach though :P

    On which point, I quite like one of the quotes from the article TJG linked to:

    "Any good team, the players take ownership of the team. It's your job to allow them to take ownership of the team when they're ready to take it. They have to take ownership of the team.

    "When you see a team with long periods of success, their core group has taken ownership of that team. And when people come in, they say 'this is how we do it here.'  "

    Now, in the Rockets' case that's going to be difficult, just because of the sheer volume of player turnover. But you really do get the sense that the identity and concept has been embraced by the new players coming in (though the next test will be whether the ex-Sactown players can acclimatise quickly), which I think is a credit to the atmosphere and environment he and his staff have set up. So on that front I would say that McHale has at least partially succeeded in his stated goal.

    From an in-game rotation point of view, I will admit that there have been a few decisions that have looked odd from time to time. But if he's doing the out-of-game stuff well, then I'm prepared to give him plenty of time to get the on-court stuff right. Any estimation of his coaching skills should be a balance between the two aspects, and given that development of the players generally seems to have been going well so far, my evaluation would be mostly positive.

    ST

  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago

    people seem to forget that most coaches around now have been going at it 20+ years. this is mchale's 4th season? he is still learning and he seems to be getting better.


    It is his second season. Interm coaches don't run preseason or impose their own offense defense.
  • sircharles says 1 YEAR ago

    people seem to forget that most coaches around now have been going at it 20+ years. this is mchale's 4th season? he is still learning and he seems to be getting better.

  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago There seems to be doubt as to whether McHale is a communicator. Phaketrash, I am of the opinion that unless there are disgruntled players making comments to the media, which there is not, than you and I as fans have no realistic idea how good of a communicator McHale is. In fact I would point to the success this year as evidence that communication is probably positive. You don't possess the chemistry the Rockets have when your coach is a poor communicator. If you don't like McHale just because you don't like him than say that is your opinion but let's stop stretching the truth to 'prove' McHale is a poor head coach.

    To me Morey and McHale seem to be a very good fit that might work really well for the next 5, 6 years or even longer.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    Phaketrash, it seems your only concern is that McHale whispers in the players' ears.....maybe he handles it differently....maybe the asst. coach does it when you can't see....Pop does it his way....you like that....fine. Let's look at other facets besides whispering...

    Here are some articles that are pro-mchale...so don't read them if you aren't into it.

    This one really gives lots of insight to McHale's strategy and philosophy (my favorite read...also from a while ago)

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1545980-houston-rockets-coach-kevin-mchales-smartest-moves-of-the-season (short article)

    This one is from the pre-season...but interesting to read it now with hind-sight

    Here is a quote from Luis Scola during last year's season:

    "He's got his style just like every coach has his style," Scola said
    about McHale. "It will always be different from one coach to another. He
    likes to work, he really loves the game. We all know his history as a
    player, especially here in [TD Garden> in [Boston>. We all know how he
    loves to play, compete, work, and he really knows how to win. That's
    pretty much the main differences we've had this year, not that we didn't
    have them before, but this coach encourages them and embraces them so
    much."

    And finally, a little quip from McHale, "I've heard people talk about basketball, and I get a chuckle out of it, like it's some sort of rocket science. This is the only way to do this ... there's a million different ways to skin the cat."

    He's got quite a bit of maverick bravado in him....I like it....I think, in the beginning, he will upset a lot of people, and by the end, those same people will sing his praises.

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    [tangent> Not sure I completely agree with RR's opinion on Spoelstra, as I think he's done an excellent job in a position that he was set up to fail in (do you remember all the talk about how he wouldn't be able to handle all the egos back in 2011? You don't hear anyone doubting him now). The guy has figured out how to get the best out of his stars and is always coming up with something new to try and get more. His willingness to be new and inventive with the resources at his disposal (in terms of lineup composition, etc.) are the mark of a flexible coach who will be in the business a long time and will do well for himself. [/tangent>

    Anyway, re: McHale - I think phaketrash was onto something when he said:

    We're all looking at this season as a chance for the team to grow and learn together. While the nature of the NBA dictates that a lot of that learning happens on the court, there's still plenty going on in practices and behind the scenes where the coaching staff help the players improve, whether that be in the form of advice of getting them to practice certain skills more. Given the current situation of the team, I see that as the most important thing a coach can bring - the ability to help the players improve. Definitely far more so than the ability to get his game rotations right, which is something that [a> can be learned if given time, and as phaketrash alludes to, is only really relevant if you're competing.

    Since we can't really judge the behind-the-scenes stuff from our viewpoint (except for perhaps Rahat, who has access to the practices), it's difficult to say with any real conviction whether McHale is doing well at the most important facet of his job. However, we can infer from the marked improvements in team cohesion and standard of play over the course of the season that the team is growing together well, and to me that is enough to give him a thumbs up for the time being.

    ST

    I've come to take this view as well ST, and a large part of why I'm not clamoring for a coaching change at this point. We're not contenders right now anyways. Main thing the coach should be doing is building players' confidence and skills and teamwork, etc., i.e., other buzz words. McHale's possible faults don't lend to as many negative consequences given our current situation/time frame/expectations. Not sure that means I think he's a particularly good coach though :P

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    Nash doesn't run pick n rolls with Dwight because Kobe hogs the ball. If you don't have it, you cannot decide what to run.

    Haha that may be, but I'm pretty sure D12 (for whatever reason) was not running as many PnRs as he should, esp. since Kobe can run PnRs with him too (does not HAVE to be Nash). I think it was a quote from D'antoni or someone who said they were trying to get Howard to run more screens but he just wanted to sit in the post and get his touches, and how it might have had to do with his conditioning since it is "easier." I'm almost 100% I read that recently -- whether an article by an analyst or D'antoni himself; I'm leaning toward the latter, but my memory isn't 100% on this.

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    I completely agree with almost everything Rocketrick has written above. I get tired of hearing about complaints about McHale. I could care less if any player is perplexed by the coach (what a reach), sounds like said player may have been clueless to me and needed to get with the program. The coach is in charge and that's the top and bottom. I detest this view that coaches are expendable. One reason why San Antonio is so successful is because that front office and coaching staff have stability and the system rules the day, always.

    Really? You wouldn't care? I would, esp. since it definitely does improve player performance. I don't think it is a reach at all as we have seen time and time again how players' emotional and mental states affect their games...a lot. Now if you're arguing whether it SHOULD affect player performance or not is a different thing -- they're paid millions to play the game and suck it up. Yet players are people and they react and respond all the time in extremely fussy ways to small things. I mean, examples are a abound. As much as Cousins needs to get with the program, if even part of the reason he wasn't was due to poor communication between him and the coach (and the coach really isn't anything to write home about), I'd release the coach (well, actually I might not, but that falls on considerations of the message it'd send to my other players).

    In a perfect world, would it be better to hand more control over to coaches? Probably. Sure seems more efficient to me, where power and responsibility is shifted into the more managerial (single) role, but I don't think that is the case in reality. Unfortunately, coaches are viewed as rather expendable (for the most part); more akin to a role player than a star player. As you alluded to, however, the same may not be said forgreat coaches, which Pop certainly is. He's the exception to the rule in that he commands respect -- everyone knows he is great; he's earned it. Not sure that applies here. I would, of course, LIKE to have a coach that commands/deserves that respect and puts in a strong system and etc., etc. We just don't.

    Funny you bring up Pop though, because he was who I was thinking of. Pop sometimes makes interesting rotation choices or pulls his guys too, but you see him whisper in the player's ears sometimes, and from some comments from players after games, you see that he sort of told them why. I mean, he definitely is NOT asking for their opinion haha, but he's providing some insight. That is what I'd like McHale to do more of -- I'm somewhat guessing (as we all are to some extent) and merely basing it off of what I see and what some players say, but that'd be something I'd appreciate seeing personally.

  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago

    ?? Dwight has not wanted to run PnR's with Steve NASH. He's wanted more touches down in the post, which is great cuz we don't have a post game, but he hasn't been taking advantage of many Nash-Howard PnRs. Part of that may have had to do with his conditioning and the effort it'd take to do that vs. be down in the post, but regardless of the reason, that wasn't really my point (of whether Dwight would or would not fit in our system lol) -- it was the issue of getting the star first, then making the pieces fit > the other way around (not saying the latter is not a valid strategy). If the LAL were a few yrs younger OR contracts were not expiring, their poor fit/play this season would be MUCH LESS an issue for concern. The NBA isn't like most other businesses where alignment might take precedence over stars, imo. It is more star player driven.


    Nash doesn't run pick n rolls with Dwight because Kobe hogs the ball. If you don't have it, you cannot decide what to run.
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    Of course Dwight would fit in this system. It's made for him. A screen role game is his best skill set. He would play in Asik's place who would move to backup center thus giving the Rockets the ever present big man which makes the defense better.

    ?? Dwight has not wanted to run PnR's with Steve NASH. He's wanted more touches down in the post, which is great cuz we don't have a post game, but he hasn't been taking advantage of many Nash-Howard PnRs. Part of that may have had to do with his conditioning and the effort it'd take to do that vs. be down in the post, but regardless of the reason, that wasn't really my point (of whether Dwight would or would not fit in our system lol) -- it was the issue of getting the star first, then making the pieces fit > the other way around (not saying the latter is not a valid strategy). If the LAL were a few yrs younger OR contracts were not expiring, their poor fit/play this season would be MUCH LESS an issue for concern. The NBA isn't like most other businesses where alignment might take precedence over stars, imo. It is more star player driven.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    The reason Dwight wasn't "fitting" in D'Antoni's system is they weren't passing him the ball. It's like Shaq said long ago (pointed at Kobe), "you got to feed the big dog first".

  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago

    ? You mentioned that about Sloan as well. I could have sworn coaches can implement different systems and succeed. Not saying I'd want to replace McHale now with some other coach with some other system, but this is akin to those who say we shouldn't get Dwight cuz he doesn't fit in a D'antoni system and thus would not fit in ours either. lulwut? You get the star, then change the system or make it work. Same for a "great coach," if that is one's aim (I'm speaking more hypothetically now and not saying we should go for a "great coach" RIGHT NOW...I think it'd be wasted with how young/inexperienced this current team is at this moment in time).


    Of course Dwight would fit in this system. It's made for him. A screen role game is his best skill set. He would play in Asik's place who would move to backup center thus giving the Rockets the ever present big man which makes the defense better.
  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago

    [tangent> Not sure I completely agree with RR's opinion on Spoelstra, as I think he's done an excellent job in a position that he was set up to fail in (do you remember all the talk about how he wouldn't be able to handle all the egos back in 2011? You don't hear anyone doubting him now). The guy has figured out how to get the best out of his stars and is always coming up with something new to try and get more. His willingness to be new and inventive with the resources at his disposal (in terms of lineup composition, etc.) are the mark of a flexible coach who will be in the business a long time and will do well for himself. [/tangent>

    Anyway, re: McHale - I think phaketrash was onto something when he said:

    I personally don't think coaches matter that much when you're in the middle strata (certainly where we are now)

    We're all looking at this season as a chance for the team to grow and learn together. While the nature of the NBA dictates that a lot of that learning happens on the court, there's still plenty going on in practices and behind the scenes where the coaching staff help the players improve, whether that be in the form of advice of getting them to practice certain skills more. Given the current situation of the team, I see that as the most important thing a coach can bring - the ability to help the players improve. Definitely far more so than the ability to get his game rotations right, which is something that [a> can be learned if given time, and as phaketrash alludes to, is only really relevant if you're competing.

    Since we can't really judge the behind-the-scenes stuff from our viewpoint (except for perhaps Rahat, who has access to the practices), it's difficult to say with any real conviction whether McHale is doing well at the most important facet of his job. However, we can infer from the marked improvements in team cohesion and standard of play over the course of the season that the team is growing together well, and to me that is enough to give him a thumbs up for the time being.

    ST

  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago I completely agree with almost everything Rocketrick has written above. I get tired of hearing about complaints about McHale. I could care less if any player is perplexed by the coach (what a reach), sounds like said player may have been clueless to me and needed to get with the program. The coach is in charge and that's the top and bottom. I detest this view that coaches are expendable. One reason why San Antonio is so successful is because that front office and coaching staff have stability and the system rules the day, always.
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    Quote from Thomas Robinson after joining the Rockets and completing his first practice which included additional one on one work with Coach McHaleat the conclusion of the team practice (reported to be the longest practice of the season):\

    "I can learn from one of the greats of the game"

    So again, just exactly how many "great" coaches are available that can bring this to the table? Coach McHale is far from being a great coach, admittedly not a solidly "good" coach, but he has as good a chance as anyone currently available to become the next Rudy T leading our team.. As Johnny Gold mentioned in an earlier post, he didn't consider Rudy T a "great" coach, just a good coach and I concur. The Rockets don't need a "great" Coach to succeed. Miami certainly doesn't have a "great" coach and they are the current defending NBA Champions.

    Anyway, I am getting pretty worn out defending Coach McHale and I think I will spend my energy elsewhere on this board.

    Hm, are you even still defending McHale or just defending the position that we should not get another coach right now (different positions)? I would agree with the latter. I personally don't think coaches matter that much when you're in the middle strata (certainly where we are now), and great coaches are best reserved leading great teams [in contention>, which we're not currently at. This is all kind of moot then huh? lol

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    I've always liked Jeff but how many Coaches come back to the same organization after leaving? Stan is a no in my opinion, his coaching style to me doesn't jive with our roster.

    ? You mentioned that about Sloan as well. I could have sworn coaches can implement different systems and succeed. Not saying I'd want to replace McHale now with some other coach with some other system, but this is akin to those who say we shouldn't get Dwight cuz he doesn't fit in a D'antoni system and thus would not fit in ours either. lulwut? You get the star, then change the system or make it work. Same for a "great coach," if that is one's aim (I'm speaking more hypothetically now and not saying we should go for a "great coach" RIGHT NOW...I think it'd be wasted with how young/inexperienced this current team is at this moment in time).

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    I have heard 0, nada complaints from any of the current Rocket players regarding Coach McHale. In fact, all the quotes I have read in a variety of articles written about the Rockets have players thrilled that Coach McHale is our Coach.

    When key players and their Coach lose their ability to communicate, it's time for a change. No doubt about that. That is simply not the case in Houston!

    Really? Remember that game Lin got pulled when he was doing well (like 1/3 through the season) and he was hella confused as to why? Gave an interview afterwards and was obviously perplexed? There are a few instances of that. He does less of it now, but I still sometimes worry that he makes a decision (right or wrong) and does it -- without explaining it to the player. Pop whispers something to a player when he makes a non-obvious move, just a few words.

    But McHale is a good person. Players and analysts and everyone love him. He's entertaining and nice; no doubt the players getalong with him. That's not my concern. And maybe for now that is enough -- just that atmosphere he's building, but I'd like him to foster communication, not confusion. Maybe he does that now, but maybe not. Earlier in the season, I saw a lot of players being somewhat confused by his moves.

  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    Quote from Thomas Robinson after joining the Rockets and completing his first practice which included additional one on one work with Coach McHaleat the conclusion of the team practice (reported to be the longest practice of the season):\

    "I can learn from one of the greats of the game"

    So again, just exactly how many "great" coaches are available that can bring this to the table? Coach McHale is far from being a great coach, admittedly not a solidly "good" coach, but he has as good a chance as anyone currently available to become the next Rudy T leading our team.. As Johnny Gold mentioned in an earlier post, he didn't consider Rudy T a "great" coach, just a good coach and I concur. The Rockets don't need a "great" Coach to succeed. Miami certainly doesn't have a "great" coach and they are the current defending NBA Champions.

    Anyway, I am getting pretty worn out defending Coach McHale and I think I will spend my energy elsewhere on this board.

  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    I've always liked Jeff but how many Coaches come back to the same organization after leaving? Stan is a no in my opinion, his coaching style to me doesn't jive with our roster.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    Either Van Gundy?

  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    it amazes me how many posters want to give mchale a free ride. I hear the excuses now. last year was his 1st and a strike shorten season at that. this year he had no training camp with harden. the team is young.how long does it take to be a great coach. on this level you either got it or you don't. we have no time to teach.just like we want to upgrade our players we should want to upgrade coaching too. I really don't like slamming mchale, but you are what your track record says you are and his track record in all of his coaching time up to now stinks.while I will agree he has gotten marginally better he is still trying to figure things out. if you want to see what a good coach looks like look at the spurs, okc, chicagoor boston. do you think doc could have gotten better results from this team?.........yeah.....how about popwith the spurs?.........how about tibs from the bulls? fact is on a scale of 1-10 mchale is a 4 trying to be a 5 :lol:and for me that just won't cut it. while the decision is not mine to fire mchale I believe morey is only using mchale to groom this young team. when it comes time to jump to contender mchale may be left on the launching pad.

    it amazes me how many posters want to give mchale a free ride. I hear the excuses now. last year was his 1st and a strike shorten season at that. this year he had no training camp with harden. the team is young.how long does it take to be a great coach. on this level you either got it or you don't. we have no time to teach.just like we want to upgrade our players we should want to upgrade coaching too. I really don't like slamming mchale, but you are what your track record says you are and his track record in all of his coaching time up to now stinks.while I will agree he has gotten marginally better he is still trying to figure things out. if you want to see what a good coach looks like look at the spurs, okc, chicagoor boston. do you think doc could have gotten better results from this team?.........yeah.....how about popwith the spurs?.........how about tibs from the bulls? fact is on a scale of 1-10 mchale is a 4 trying to be a 5 :lol:and for me that just won't cut it. while the decision is not mine to fire mchale I believe morey is only using mchale to groom this young team. when it comes time to jump to contender mchale may be left on the launching pad.

    In a prior post, I asked for suggestions, recommendations, etc. for a replacement to Coach McHale. Obviously, Phil Jackson is done coaching, Jerry Sloan doesn't fit this teams style, Pop and Doc certainly aren't going to jump ship, same can be said of Thibs, Spoelstra doesn't fit in my opinion as a "great" coach, who else is out there? Most of the negative comments about Coach McHale is "we don't have time to train a newby" so don't give me that crap about this or that Assistant either.

    My point being I don't see a "great" coach that is just sitting there waiting for that phone call from Daryl Morey and Leslie Alexander.

    If you disagree with my premise, by all means share the names of the "great" coaches that are ready and available to take the reins immediately, or even at the start of the next season.

  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    Somewhat relevant, a quote from Udrih complaining about being under Scott Skiles while at Milwaukee:

    Frst, Udrih’s frustrations,as documented by Josh Robbins at the Orlando Sentinel:

    "I've been here three days, and I've already felt more at home than I did in Milwaukee for a year and a half," Udrih said Monday.

    "It was just a bad situation there. I'm a professional and I'm a man, so I like to be told straight-up what they expect from me. So, in Milwaukee, that never happened. They were saying, 'Yeah, yeah, we know. We've got to play you a little bit more.' But it never happened. So when I did get into the game I didn't know what they actually wanted to do, so I was just trying to find it myself, and I never did."

    Why is this relevant? Well, one of my two big knocks on McHale is myperception that he does not communicate his decisions/thought process well with the players. Maybe he does, I can only guess from context and clues. Maybe it is my psychology background or the fact that I work in the service industry, like Rahat will haha, but communication is imperative. Players are people too, and even if they are paid a lot of money, the emotional/mental aspect of the game/profession in general is important.

    I also think this is indirect evidence that the Kings as an organization could make players like TRob worse, as I imagine they make the Bucks organization look like a gallon of fresh water to a thirsty man.

    I have heard 0, nada complaints from any of the current Rocket players regarding Coach McHale. In fact, all the quotes I have read in a variety of articles written about the Rockets have players thrilled that Coach McHale is our Coach.

    When key players and their Coach lose their ability to communicate, it's time for a change. No doubt about that. That is simply not the case in Houston!

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    Yeah, that is a massive chunk of change to put on 3 players...while I don't think a 10+ deep team is needed in the playoffs, where stars get more minutes and everyone gets more rest (LAC, there goes part of your deep bench advantage! lol), and the pace is slowed (bad for us)...putting a lot of our money on 3 players is kinda scary, though if DMo is REALLY good then :P and Lin is playing even better, well, that's as complete a team as you could imagine. But whatever happens,In Morey We Trust indeed.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    @JG

    I thought the argument was a bit less nuanced yet more specific at the same time -- that it was comparing a team with 3 stars + role players vs. a team with 2 stars + role players, with the added assumption that the latter has somewhat stronger role players. I think there is a fair argument for both models, and it'll depend really on the composition of players. With Lin and DMo and maybe Delfino supporting a cast of Harden + Howard + Love, even with Bev and Anderson and whoever else on the bench that Morey can get, I feel very, very good about that team. Is it better or worse than a hypothetical team where we keep almost all our pieces but just add a Dwight or (impossibly) only a Lamarcus Aldridge? No idea, though the former would scare me more if I had to play them in the playoffs haha.

    Yeah, I don't think I was very clear in conveying what I was thinking....in my mind we were talking about a team that had traded in all it's chips for 3 stud players and were, at best, 8 deep on the roster. To me, that team will struggle to get through the playoffs vs. teams that run 10+ deep. Granted, the playoffs are stretched out more which limits the fatigue factor these days. I think I just have an aversion to this method of team-building. It steals away a lot of the attachment I could form towards the team vs. having a largely home-grown group. Yes, I recognize the glaring hypocrisy of Harden, Lin, and Asik (now T-rob too) not being home-grown. I guess I can't explain it as well as I'd like....they all somehow still had underdog status when we got them and are rising above it...I don't know. I am sure I could, and would, learn to love any new collection of players...Honestly, I don't think there is anything to worry about...Morey's in charge so there is no concern that we'll wind up in that situation.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    @JG Smith, Kenny Smith was the PG.

    And I do understand that the stars need role players, but role players show up to play with stars. Just look at the Heat's offseason. You worry about getting stars first, then you build around them.

    Ha, Can't believe I wrote Anderson...I meant Smith, obviously.

    You're right. Once we had Love, Howard, and Harden it would be easy to fill the gaps. I think, like the Heat, it might take a season or two to get the right players and let them gel....but after that they would be a force. I think that with the new CBA I am concerned about being able to successfully have three stars and a quality bench around them....Miami's bench is still suspect and they are close to $ probs if I'm not mistaken.

    3 players making roughly $45-$50 million when you have a $60 million cap....that's scary.

  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago @JG Smith, Kenny Smith was the PG.

    And I do understand that the stars need role players, but role players show up to play with stars. Just look at the Heat's offseason. You worry about getting stars first, then you build around them.
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    @JG

    I thought the argument was a bit less nuanced yet more specific at the same time -- that it was comparing a team with 3 stars + role players vs. a team with 2 stars + role players, with the added assumption that the latter has somewhat stronger role players. I think there is a fair argument for both models, and it'll depend really on the composition of players. With Lin and DMo and maybe Delfino supporting a cast of Harden + Howard + Love, even with Bev and Anderson and whoever else on the bench that Morey can get, I feel very, very good about that team. Is it better or worse than a hypothetical team where we keep almost all our pieces but just add a Dwight or (impossibly) only a Lamarcus Aldridge? No idea, though the former would scare me more if I had to play them in the playoffs haha.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    @Steven, I feel like maybe you missed part of my post--the important part. I will expound on it now. I am acknowledging the need for stars...I have never said otherwise....I am saying stars are not enough and that each of those teams you listed was actually a full, complete team built around a star or more. They had depth. They had players who went on to become stars.....

    Here is a link to every champion...just click on the team to see the roster.

    Here, this article mostly supports your stance that stars are all that matters and the other players are just along for the ride

    Again, I support the notion set forth in the above article. I think they under-estimate and largely ignore the supporting casts that made them all champions.

    We all know Hakeem carried the Rockets...for those of us that watched those series we also know that those titles don't happen wihout Kenny Smith [fixed>, Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, Mario Ellie, Vernon Maxwell, Otis Thorpe, and some unheralded others. They made each other better....stars and supporting cast....like a team. Weird.

    It's cool, we're just debating different points of view. I believe team (star included) trumps star alone. Are the current Rockets not evidence of the whole-is-greater-than-the-sum-of-its-parts argument?

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    Somewhat relevant, a quote from Udrih complaining about being under Scott Skiles while at Milwaukee:

    Frst, Udrih’s frustrations,as documented by Josh Robbins at the Orlando Sentinel:

    "I've been here three days, and I've already felt more at home than I did in Milwaukee for a year and a half," Udrih said Monday.

    "It was just a bad situation there. I'm a professional and I'm a man, so I like to be told straight-up what they expect from me. So, in Milwaukee, that never happened. They were saying, 'Yeah, yeah, we know. We've got to play you a little bit more.' But it never happened. So when I did get into the game I didn't know what they actually wanted to do, so I was just trying to find it myself, and I never did."

    Why is this relevant? Well, one of my two big knocks on McHale is myperception that he does not communicate his decisions/thought process well with the players. Maybe he does, I can only guess from context and clues. Maybe it is my psychology background or the fact that I work in the service industry, like Rahat will haha, but communication is imperative. Players are people too, and even if they are paid a lot of money, the emotional/mental aspect of the game/profession in general is important.

    I also think this is indirect evidence that the Kings as an organization could make players like TRob worse, as I imagine they make the Bucks organization look like a gallon of fresh water to a thirsty man.

  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago Before heat.
    Mavs had Dirk a top 10 PF of all time, Kidd top 10 PG, Jet Terry arguably the greatest 6th man of all time
    Lakers Kobe Pau
    Celtics Big 3
    Spurs Duncan Parker, Manu
    Heat Shaq D-Wade
    Spurs
    Pistons explained before
    Spurs
    Lakers X3 Shaq Kobe
    Spurs Duncan Robinson
    Bulls X3 Rodman Pippen Jordan
    Rockets Hakeem and Drexler
    Rockets Hakeem only team without 2 stars
    Bulls X3 Jordan Pippen Grant
    Pistons x2 Thomas Dumars Rodman
    Lakers X2 Kareem Magic Worthy
    Celtics Bird McHale
    Lakers
    Celtics
    76ers Malone Dr. J
    Lakers
    Celtics
    Lakers

    That takes us to 1980. You need stars to win.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    Well Lin would still be at the point and Anderson/ Delfino at the 3.

    And there has only been one "team" that has won the NBA championship in the last 30 years. All the others had a star. And that Pistons team had Billips Wallace Wallace Hamilton and Prince. Rasheed and Billips are HOFers.

    I completely disagree....look at the list of past NBA champions. Aside from the Heat last year, I would claim that each champion fielded a deep, complete squad going back to the early 80's. My concern is that once we trade away our blue chips for Love and over-pay Dwight there won't be much left to fill out the team....Lin, Delfino, and Anderson......and......I just don't know. Maybe we get a solid rotation around them....

    I'm not saying no stars--that is ridiculous--I'm saying a complete team. This is why Lakers have no shot this year. This is why Chris Paul got fed up with New Orleans...if all you needed was a star he could go anywhere and win a championship (and he did have David West in his prime to partner with--still not enough).....

    As for Billups and Sheed being HOF'ers....Wow....Maybe Billups gets in for being a good guy and feel-good story......but no.

    Moving on....This McHale thing is hilarious. You nay-sayers ignore all relevant context and only point to the end results that support your stance without discerning what led up to it. (Joe Smith debacle, Stephon Marbury meltdown, rebuilding roster-mode, playing in a bottom 5 market, doing a solid for Garnett and letting him go....) As for the yay-sayers, well....I'm not sure there are any....I think there are a lot of people that recognize that he has some good qualities and want to see how that evolves....Some of us remember that Popovich was 17-47 his first year and all but blatantly sand-bagged that season to land Duncan which he has had ever since--one of the best players ever. There isn't much to point to regarding McHale being a good, or great, coach. Until he gets to the playoffs a couple of years in a row...nobody will know because that is how it is all measured. Ultimately, I think McHale will go down as a "good" coach....This may not be popular, but Rudy T. was merely a "good coach"....I'll take another Rudy T., thank you very much.

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    @rocketrick

    I don't want to move Asik or Parsons either except for that "perfect trade" -- we just disagree with what that deal would be. For you, it sounds like it is Lebron or that caliber lol, since D12 and KLove and JSmoove are clearly inferior (I agree on the last one). I'm not as finicky. And when should the revolving door stop? I think Morey will 'settle down' when we get that second star. Until we do, almost everyone is game, and I'm okay with that. Chemistry is nice, but talent comes first. As Steven mentioned, winning teams need stars, and in today's league, prob 2 stars. I'm all for developing chemistry after we get the 2nd star.

    And your comment about the coach, I mean, aren't you just combating opinion with opinion? People not liking McHale's late game choices and rotations sound as much fact to me as saying the Rockets are overachieving nowbecause of McHale. I could easily argue it is because of Harden being better than anyone initially thought. And what are we overachieving exactly? Which projection? What people thought before we got Harden? Right after?

    I think our current success does largely fall on Morey's shoulders. His moves set this all up, and beautiful moves they were. McHale, I guess it is myopinion that he isn't the reason. I don't think he's holding them back either though.

    And I think RBF means the same thing when he said conflict between Adelman and Morey...that's just arguing now for argument's sake, to say there was no conflict, just a difference in opinion.

  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago

    fact mchale has stunk at coaching in he previous stop. fact mchale stunk at GM in his last stop. fact mchale stunk last year coaching this team which showed itself when he took a team that should have made the playoffs last year and crashed and burned trying to close out the season. we are who we are this season because we have better talent, not because of his coaching. while he does deserve a little credit the lions share should go to morey. you think its an opinion that he is a bad coach..........I think it's a fact



    The teams he was coaching were terrible (albeit McHale put them together, but he is not the GM). He would take that terrible team and have a better winning percentage then the coach he fired. Them are facts. It's like saying Bo Porter is a terrible coach because he managing the Astros. You won't know until he actually has talent to coach. This being the first year he has had real talent, he has his team OVERACHIEVING!!!! 28 Wins, that's the most anyone had the Rockets winning this year, 28. They got that before the All-Star Break. No free passes from me, just logical rational thought using all the facts, not ones I choose and the others, that don't fit my predetermined position, ignored.
  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago

    I would take a "complete" team, like chicago, indiana, or denver against that trio in a 7 game series. I just don't think their individual talents trump a full team.


    Well Lin would still be at the point and Anderson/ Delfino at the 3.

    And there has only been one "team" that has won the NBA championship in the last 30 years. All the others had a star. And that Pistons team had Billips Wallace Wallace Hamilton and Prince. Rasheed and Billips are HOFers.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    it amazes me how many posters want to give mchale a free ride. I hear the excuses now. last year was his 1st and a strike shorten season at that. this year he had no training camp with harden. the team is young.how long does it take to be a great coach. on this level you either got it or you don't. we have no time to teach.just like we want to upgrade our players we should want to upgrade coaching too. I really don't like slamming mchale, but you are what your track record says you are and his track record in all of his coaching time up to now stinks.while I will agree he has gotten marginally better he is still trying to figure things out. if you want to see what a good coach looks like look at the spurs, okc, chicagoor boston. do you think doc could have gotten better results from this team?.........yeah.....how about popwith the spurs?.........how about tibs from the bulls? fact is on a scale of 1-10 mchale is a 4 trying to be a 5 :lol:and for me that just won't cut it. while the decision is not mine to fire mchale I believe morey is only using mchale to groom this young team. when it comes time to jump to contender mchale may be left on the launching pad.

  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with you when you say Coach McHale "is not yet good at late game situations or controlling matchups in the game" That is purely opinion, not fact.

    It's easy to make up reasons against a certain player or Coach when it's only opinions and not facts.

    The fact is the Rockets are absolutely overachieving and with the youngest roster in the NBA this season (in terms of NBA experience) and yet are knocking at the door of the playoffs. So who should get credit for this? Shouldn't the Head Coach and GM receive their due credit for overachieving?

    I'm glad that this board allows for intelligent conversation about our favorite team, players, etc. Iwould justprefer more facts than just opinions when it comes to the important things like trading for a certain player or hiring/firing a Head Coach.

    fact mchale has stunk at coaching in he previous stop. fact mchale stunk at GM in his last stop. fact mchale stunk last year coaching this team which showed itself when he took a team that should have made the playoffs last year and crashed and burned trying to close out the season. we are who we are this season because we have better talent, not because of his coaching. while he does deserve a little credit the lions share should go to morey. you think its an opinion that he is a bad coach..........I think it's a fact

  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    if hollins doesn't take menphis on a deep playoff run he is toast. going public against the GM is like biting the hand that feeds you. I agree conflct with morey got rick a ticket out of town, but that is not a reason to keep mchale. we don't need a renegade, but we don't need a yes man either.

    If I recall correctly, it was more of a difference in opinion than a conflict that resulted in one of my all time favorite NBA Coaches, RIck Adelman, leaving the Rockets.

    It came down to Coach Adelman wanting more of a say on player movement and no doubt he wanted more time with his roster rather than the revolving door the Rockets have been on the past 2-3 seasons. I can't say I blame him either.I is very difficult to develop a system, some sort of reasonable substitution pattern, consistency on offense and defense, when everytime you look up there is a different player or group of players you are leading.

    Yet things have turned out splendid in Houston with all the player moves and now let's sit back and enjoy the overachieving Rockets and see how far they can take us this year!

  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    DrewinAbilene:

    when I look at mchale I see a coach who started out not having a clue what coaching was about. sure he was great with players, but did not know enough about the in's and out's of coaching. over the year and a half he has been here he has learned quite a bit, but still has a lot of short comings. he is not yet good at late game situations or controlling matchups in the game(even though he has been better lately) he is slowly learning about coaching. we can do better. we don't need the student we need the teacher. mchale is great at helping our bigs. i'm down with that, but we need much more than that from that position. I understand he can benifit us by bringing out the best in these bigs, but he is not the one to lead us to the promise land. as for the rockets overacheving.........while I will give mchale some credit........I believe more credit goes to morey for some of the high end talent he has brought in. he has been able to see and find talent where no one else was looking. so in answer to your question "are there many coaches who could have gotten these results".....YES. who we are is more about talent than great coaching.

    I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with you when you say Coach McHale "is not yet good at late game situations or controlling matchups in the game" That is purely opinion, not fact.

    It's easy to make up reasons against a certain player or Coach when it's only opinions and not facts.

    The fact is the Rockets are absolutely overachieving and with the youngest roster in the NBA this season (in terms of NBA experience) and yet are knocking at the door of the playoffs. So who should get credit for this? Shouldn't the Head Coach and GM receive their due credit for overachieving?

    I'm glad that this board allows for intelligent conversation about our favorite team, players, etc. Iwould justprefer more facts than just opinions when it comes to the important things like trading for a certain player or hiring/firing a Head Coach.

  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    Heck, couldn't we in theory sign D12 this summer then trade for Love? I doubt Minny would want to deal Love to us after we get Dwight haha, but it'd make sense on some level. Parsons, Asik, TRob (assuming TRob's value has not changed). We'd even have our own 2014 1st available (hopefully) to sweeten the pot. Salaries match. I can see why we would do it (field a starting group of Lin/Harden/Delfino? or anyone/KLove/Dwight, with Bev, Anderson, White, DMo, TJones, anyone else Morey can scrounge up off the bench. Bit weak on the wings, but that is an nba 2k13 team.

    Why would Minny do it? Like JG said, they know Love is opting out of his K in 2 yrs, and you really don't want to be in a Melo/Dwight/etc. situation where the star has a lot of leverage going into his final year (possibly leaving you with nothing and everyone KNOWING you got nothing up your sleeves, i.e., seeJosh Smith and ATL). Trading him with another 2 yrs left, even though he just came back from surgery, is selling him HIGH. Parsons is a steal and would have 2 yrs left. Same for Asik. Add in TRob as a high pick with a lot of potential. They can move Derrick Williams if need be, that guy needs a change of scenery to maybe meet his potential.

    Minny patches up a lot of their weak spots, esp. since they can let Pekovic go if they get Asik (Pek's rookie K ends and will demand a much larger salary). None of the deals Houston gives is an expiring, yet all are +value. Win-win if Minny is not too stubborn and sees the writing on the wall.

    More likely they won't though because doing so will make HOU a powerhouse in the west, and they really want to see KLove + Rubio + Adelman have a full run of a season now. They couldn't this yr. Chances would have been better if Love was healthy this yr and Minny still missed playoffs, just barely. Then I'd be salivating haha.

    Why do some of you on this board continue wanting to trade away recentadditions like a Chandler Parsons, Omir Asik, Jeremy Lin. et al? When does a continual revolving door of players come to a stop?

    Of course, if it was the "perfect" trade and that required one of these guys to be moved, that is understandable. But otherwise I just don't see Morey and the Rockets moving any of their current rotation players in the near future.

    The Rockets are the youngest team in the NBA this season in terms of overall NBA experience and we are knocking at the door of the playoffs. That doesn't happen by accident, not in this league!!

    I don't want anything to do with Dwight Howard, he is too much of a prima donna and would kill our lockerroom.

    I'm not convinced Kevin Love is that good of a fit with the Rockets. Sure he has the long distance game we desire from a stretch 4 and the rebounding prowess, but his defense is worse than terrible. When was the last time anyone won the NBA Championship with a purely offensive team? I don't ever recall at anytime in the past a team that won the NBA Championship without a solid defense. Once the playoffs start, the game flow slows down and each possession becomes that much more important.

    Josh Smith? Really, what is his shooting percentage in his career/ Really? I mean we can pay someone a heck of a lot less to get those kind of statistics!

    Locker room chemistry is so underrated and so important to building a Championship team. Please keep that in mind when you come up with the "next great trade".

  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    no personal attacks from my end

    please for the people who are saying McHale is a "good" coach please define that because to date he has hampered the team. That said, I don't even want a "good" coach, I want a great coach. Unless we get the likes of Lebron then we need a great coach to win titles.

    A "good" NBA Coach has the full respect of his players. A "good" NBA Coach does not insert a Rookie player just to give him burn when a more experienced and proven player is on the bench in front of him. A "good" NBA Coach constantly looks for matchup weaknesses on the floor and adjusts on the fly, thus no steady substitution pattern. A "good" NBA Coach continues to encourage his 1st year players to work hard in practice and to stay positive as their opportunity to shine will come unexpectedly and they better be ready when it comes. In my opinion, Coach McHale fits all of these definitions of being a "good" NBA Coach.

    So realistically speaking, which "great" NBA Coach is currently available or would be available by the start of the 2013 off-season for Morey to choose from?

    No matter how much harpingthere is on these boards, the finaldecision on Coach McHale isn't going to come from any of us, rather that decision will come from Leslie Alexander and Daryl Morey.

    The Rockets have very definitely overachieved in every sense of that word and Coach McHale deserves credit for that as well.

  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    I'd also point out that it's also important for the coach to be on the same page as the GM. That's why Adelman isn't here, after all, and Hollins also seems to have a bit of feuding with the Memphis GM after the Gay trade. McHale generally seems to get along with morey, and that's an important quality.

    if hollins doesn't take menphis on a deep playoff run he is toast. going public against the GM is like biting the hand that feeds you. I agree conflct with morey got rick a ticket out of town, but that is not a reason to keep mchale. we don't need a renegade, but we don't need a yes man either.

  • PKM says 1 YEAR ago

    I'd also point out that it's also important for the coach to be on the same page as the GM. That's why Adelman isn't here, after all, and Hollins also seems to have a bit of feuding with the Memphis GM after the Gay trade. McHale generally seems to get along with morey, and that's an important quality.

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    I would take a "complete" team, like chicago, indiana, or denver against that trio in a 7 game series. I just don't think their individual talents trump a full team.

    Eh, I don't know. That is a pretty complete team right there, esp. if you take into account that Lin is also our PG. Morey's ability is finding role players for cheap and on the fly. I'd be extremely confident that he could surround them with a bench that could at least be adequate in the playoffs (with a starting 5 that is one of the best). I'd take that gamble any day of the week and twice on Sunday, over the alternative.

    Then again, the alternative might lead to a lower chance of winning a ring, but more years of high level contention, which could either be heartbreaking...or a dynasty hahaha.

  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    DrewinAbilene:

    when I look at mchale I see a coach who started out not having a clue what coaching was about. sure he was great with players, but did not know enough about the in's and out's of coaching. over the year and a half he has been here he has learned quite a bit, but still has a lot of short comings. he is not yet good at late game situations or controlling matchups in the game(even though he has been better lately) he is slowly learning about coaching. we can do better. we don't need the student we need the teacher. mchale is great at helping our bigs. i'm down with that, but we need much more than that from that position. I understand he can benifit us by bringing out the best in these bigs, but he is not the one to lead us to the promise land. as for the rockets overacheving.........while I will give mchale some credit........I believe more credit goes to morey for some of the high end talent he has brought in. he has been able to see and find talent where no one else was looking. so in answer to your question "are there many coaches who could have gotten these results".....YES. who we are is more about talent than great coaching.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    And with Howard love and Harden playing 40 minutes a night (in the playoffs) you won't need much of a bench either.

    I would take a "complete" team, like chicago, indiana, or denver against that trio in a 7 game series. I just don't think their individual talents trump a full team.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    What about Hollins?

  • Drew in Abilene says 1 YEAR ago

    I respect that others don't think McHale's a good coach. I also admit that I don't know as much about coaching as I would like, which could easily lead to me making a bad judgement call on his or any coach's performance. On top of all that, I'm a chronic optimist, and tend to see the positive in most situations.

    With all that said, I think McHale is a good coach. Not great. Not spectacular. But not bad. Not terrible.

    What was your expectation of the Rockets this year? I looked for predictions from forum members but was only able to find pre-Harden prognostications, but based on what I heard from around the league and from the vibe I've gotten from the forum, most thought that even with our superstar upgrade we were a sub-.500 team with little to no shot at the post-season. As of this posting, the youngest team in the league, our very own Houston Rockets are 31-27. That is significantly better than what was anticipated by just about everyone, myself included.

    McHale does not deserve all the credit for Houston's overachieving. But before we jump to give him zero credit and suggest that he's a bad coach, let's look at who is actually coaching in the NBA today. I think it serves as a good reminder that while the grass always seems greener on the other side, but it isn't always.Out of these coaches, how many are legitimately better coaches who you would prefer to be manning the bench?

    http://www.nba.com/news/transactions/coaches/index.html

    For me, the East only has a few. Sure Thibs and Doc are excellent, and Spoelstra has proved an excellent ability to work with the talent he was given. Woodson and Vogel have also proven themselves pretty well.

    The West have several high quality coaches, too. Pop is obviously right up there at the top. Karl, Scotty Brooks, and Carlisle are all proven winners. We've seen Adelman firsthand, and know how good he can be. Your feelings about him might have changed in the last few years, but D'Antonio has shown the ability to coach at a high level.

    That covers about a third of the coaches in the league. Then again, that list has quite a few coaches who would not be doing nearly as well with this roster. Where would we be if the Rockets were led by Mike Dunlap? How many wins would we have scraped together if Vinny Del Negro was at our helm? Would we have jettisoned an Avery Johnson, a Mike Brown, or an Alvin Gentry by this point of the year? Carlisimo? Frank? Vaughn?

    Sure there are some legends who aren't coaching now, like Phil and Sloan. But they aren't coming to H-Town anytime soon.

    I think there may be 15 "great" NBA coaches that we know of right now. McHale isn't on that list. But firing him this off-season probably won't get us any closer to snagging one of those 15. If we replace McHale, odds are much higher that our new coach will not be better than his predecessor. If we want one of the truly great coaches, I think the best chance is to continue to let this team grow and improve under McHale until we are both talented enough and have a high enough profile to attract a top tier coach.

    In the meantime, there will probably continue to be fans like me who hope McHale can improve his coaching to match the growth of his players. Optimism!

  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago

    You're right, but you're forgetting one thing. Miami has Lebron...they can get away with having a lesser bench


    And with Howard love and Harden playing 40 minutes a night (in the playoffs) you won't need much of a bench either.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    You're right, but you're forgetting one thing. Miami has Lebron...they can get away with having a lesser bench

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    tbf, it's worked well for the Heat, as unappealing as their team structure may be :P I get what you're saying though about all that money tied up, but the beauty of it is, that's only a problem when re-signing comes. Harden is young enough where his max deal is like a "normal" deal haha (13-14M). Dwight will hurt at near 20M, and KLove is around Harden at 14M. All would be on contract for like 3 yrs together. I'm sorry, but this is clearly a "go big now" strategy. If we don't win in those 3 yrs, I don't know lol...

    After those 3 yrs, we get flexibility back as we reload with a ton of cap space. 2 stars w/ good role players though is just as appealing to me, tbh, and that's what I love about our position: the flexibility. Most teams in the NBA would be envious of either situation hahaha.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    I like the way you're thinking, but I wouldn't want dwight and love together. Too much money tied up in three positions. Between Harden, Love, and Dwight we'd be hard-pressed to fill out the roster....You'd be looking at a team like the La lakers....lucky they have earl clark....or the heat with aging veterans looking for titles. I don't think either path appeals to me. We can afford two stars and our role players. I think, when you account for good chemistry and experience, keeping that team together as long as possible will pay dividends.

  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    totally agree...I am pleased as punch to move forward with D-Mo, robinson, and crew. It's really a win-win in this scenario. Love is a top 10 talent in this league. Minny has to consider that trading him sooner than later may be wise....especially after the josh smith trade debacle. Teams don't like to give up assets for a player that may walk at the end of the year. Minny has to know he is not re-signing with them. If they want to get anything for him they will have to consider moving him sooner than later.

    Heck, couldn't we in theory sign D12 this summer then trade for Love? I doubt Minny would want to deal Love to us after we get Dwight haha, but it'd make sense on some level. Parsons, Asik, TRob (assuming TRob's value has not changed). We'd even have our own 2014 1st available (hopefully) to sweeten the pot. Salaries match. I can see why we would do it (field a starting group of Lin/Harden/Delfino? or anyone/KLove/Dwight, with Bev, Anderson, White, DMo, TJones, anyone else Morey can scrounge up off the bench. Bit weak on the wings, but that is an nba 2k13 team.

    Why would Minny do it? Like JG said, they know Love is opting out of his K in 2 yrs, and you really don't want to be in a Melo/Dwight/etc. situation where the star has a lot of leverage going into his final year (possibly leaving you with nothing and everyone KNOWING you got nothing up your sleeves, i.e., seeJosh Smith and ATL). Trading him with another 2 yrs left, even though he just came back from surgery, is selling him HIGH. Parsons is a steal and would have 2 yrs left. Same for Asik. Add in TRob as a high pick with a lot of potential. They can move Derrick Williams if need be, that guy needs a change of scenery to maybe meet his potential.

    Minny patches up a lot of their weak spots, esp. since they can let Pekovic go if they get Asik (Pek's rookie K ends and will demand a much larger salary). None of the deals Houston gives is an expiring, yet all are +value. Win-win if Minny is not too stubborn and sees the writing on the wall.

    More likely they won't though because doing so will make HOU a powerhouse in the west, and they really want to see KLove + Rubio + Adelman have a full run of a season now. They couldn't this yr. Chances would have been better if Love was healthy this yr and Minny still missed playoffs, just barely. Then I'd be salivating haha.

  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    I told myself last week please do not respond, but I just can't help myself. Mchale is far from being good or even average. As Bill Parcells once said you are what you are. I think he is a good guy and sounds good, but man he is inconsistent. In life people have up and downs and even players at the highest levels will be off from time to time. Mchale has played the game, coached the game and manage the game. This team is very inconsistent maybe its youth or maybe its coaching, honestly i'm one of the few people that has always said this team can win. You get high on them then they crash and burn.

    datruth you are indeed datruth. That's what I've been saying and pretty much convinced that the people who are claiming he's anything other than a bad / below average coach are the people who will strictly defend their coach no matter what, history and their eyes be damned.


    I understand pulling for your team, I do all the time but there's zero correlation in being fan with you must defend players/coaches/gm/owners and make them into more than they are.

    It's OK people to just tell the truth, there's nothing wrong with saying "McHale flat out isn't a good coach", it doesn't mean you aren't a fan, in fact you're a true fan if you are honest with your team and WANT your team to start being relevant when everyone talks about who has a legit shot in winning a championship.

  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    Here's a short, fun read for those fantasizing about the Rocket's off-season and pre-emptive love for Mr. Morey.

    Has Kevin Love Been the Target All Along?

    It certainly makes some sense....and I don't think anyone has reservations about bringing in K. Love--even if it costs us 3 of our PF prospects.....Harden, Lin, Parsons, Love and Asik is stout offensively. I know we are all dying for D-Mo to take the next step....but he's not the first 7 ft. euro to titillate a team and its fan base only to decide defense is not for them and never will be. That being said, D-Mo's quote about wanting to be great at everything--including things undreamt of--certainly tickles the imagination with possibility. In a perfect world--we get them both.

    I would LOVE to get Love (bad pun but it works in this case). That is of course if Love isn't made of glass which I'm a little bit worried about.

  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    Take it easy Kade. Let's keep this about basketball and refrain from personal attacks or suggestions about forum members. Of course that is to everyone, we don't make personal attacks, here on Red94 we have a higher standard so lets all adhere to that gents.

    Back to the debate. Look you have a right to your opinion but opinions are not facts so do not overstep your bounds. Morey is looking like a great GM right now and he is definitely one of the best in the league. As far as McHale goes I don't believe anyone said he is a great coach but I do agree with Rocketrick that he is a very good coach, has players that are dedicated to him and is probably the perfect fit for the stage this team is at. Rocketrick and I are not alone, we don't forget too much considering how long we have been fans. Heck I have been a Rockets can since the mid 80's (probably similar to Rocketrick) almost 3 decades and that should speak volumes.

    no personal attacks from my end

    please for the people who are saying McHale is a "good" coach please define that because to date he has hampered the team. That said, I don't even want a "good" coach, I want a great coach. Unless we get the likes of Lebron then we need a great coach to win titles.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    totally agree...I am pleased as punch to move forward with D-Mo, robinson, and crew. It's really a win-win in this scenario. Love is a top 10 talent in this league. Minny has to consider that trading him sooner than later may be wise....especially after the josh smith trade debacle. Teams don't like to give up assets for a player that may walk at the end of the year. Minny has to know he is not re-signing with them. If they want to get anything for him they will have to consider moving him sooner than later.

  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    Here's a short, fun read for those fantasizing about the Rocket's off-season and pre-emptive love for Mr. Morey.

    Has Kevin Love Been the Target All Along?

    It certainly makes some sense....and I don't think anyone has reservations about bringing in K. Love--even if it costs us 3 of our PF prospects.....Harden, Lin, Parsons, Love and Asik is stout offensively. I know we are all dying for D-Mo to take the next step....but he's not the first 7 ft. euro to titillate a team and its fan base only to decide defense is not for them and never will be. That being said, D-Mo's quote about wanting to be great at everything--including things undreamt of--certainly tickles the imagination with possibility. In a perfect world--we get them both.

    I don't think so. 1st minny is not ready to trade him period. 2nd they don't have a cap problem which might otherwise force their hand right now. 3rd depending on how d-mo looks the rest of this year that may be a moot point.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    Here's a short, fun read for those fantasizing about the Rocket's off-season and pre-emptive love for Mr. Morey.

    Has Kevin Love Been the Target All Along?

    It certainly makes some sense....and I don't think anyone has reservations about bringing in K. Love--even if it costs us 3 of our PF prospects.....Harden, Lin, Parsons, Love and Asik is stout offensively. I know we are all dying for D-Mo to take the next step....but he's not the first 7 ft. euro to titillate a team and its fan base only to decide defense is not for them and never will be. That being said, D-Mo's quote about wanting to be great at everything--including things undreamt of--certainly tickles the imagination with possibility. In a perfect world--we get them both.

  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago I hate to sound like sour grapes, but I feel like Asik should just get re-named "door mat" after the way the referees let Washington walk all over him last night. I have never seen a player spend that much time on the floor without getting a single call. I am hoping he gets more respect from officials as time goes by.

    I will say Washington must have watched last night's Nets game because they were not going to let us pick and roll them to death. I would have liked to have seen a better adjustment to that...not sure what that would have been...overall they defended us well and let us live, and die, by the three....and no power forwards.
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago Sad loss. Bench stepped up, but we had a really thin rotation. Think I read Lin was sick tonight as well. McHale didn't trust anyone else to be at the 4 in that last Wiz possession I guess.
  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago We knew this was going to be an up and down season. Lets not forget this is a back end of a back to back with about 7 players that are good to go by the fourth quarter, all signs point to a loss when that's the hand your dealt. Whitman might have made the right coaching decisions but the deck was stacked against McHale. It's the NBA, games will be lost, it's about how you bounce back?
  • datruth says 1 YEAR ago I told myself last week please do not respond, but I just can't help myself. Mchale is far from being good or even average. As Bill Parcells once said you are what you are. I think he is a good guy and sounds good, but man he is inconsistent. In life people have up and downs and even players at the highest levels will be off from time to time. Mchale has played the game, coached the game and manage the game. This team is very inconsistent maybe its youth or maybe its coaching, honestly i'm one of the few people that has always said this team can win. You get high on them then they crash and burn.
  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago I'm not a huge fan of David Berri, whose statistical methodology places too much value on rebounds. Would like to hear more about the methodology behind that study though.

    timetodienow1234567, on 23 February 2013 - 19:27 PM said:


    If one detects skepticism emanating from Colangelo's corner office to Berri’s ivory tower, maybe it's mutual. Berri spent part of an afternoon this week mocking what he perceived to be the absurdity of many an NBA reality, including the coach-run sideline huddle.

    “I saw where Adrian Dantley (coaching the Denver Nuggets) kept saying, ‘We're giving up too many layups.’ And it's like the players were sitting there saying, ‘Yes, we know. We don't want them to get layups, either. Why don’t you tell us how to stop them?’ ” said Berri. “They keep putting the mic on (Boston coach Doc Rivers) and he keeps saying the same thing, ‘We've got to play like a team.’ I mean, I’m getting tired of that. I can't imagine what the players are thinking. . . . You've got to imagine (Celtics forward) Kevin Garnett, when Doc Rivers is talking, is, like, “Are you done yet? Can I go play? Yep. Play like a team. Got it.” That's coaching.”

    I can't believe he said this part - surely he knows that when they mic up the coaches they edit out all the tactical stuff so as not to provide the other team with a tactical advantage?

    ST
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago TTDN:
    your last statement(coaches don't improve players skills, but great coaches improve their efficiency) this is what coaching is all about (IMO). i'm sure no one can turn a sub par player into a megastar, but good coaches will bring out the best in good players. many players are good only if used in a way that plays to their strengths. good coaches will adapt a sytem to bring out those qualities. no I don't like mchale, but making in season changes rarely work. sure the team may go on a spurt. but sooner or later they come back down to earth if the way they are being used is unchanged. the reason I can live with mchale right now is he has some top notch bench coaches next to him(IMO). to me that means he can't get to far off base before somebody notices and corrects him.
  • bballguy says 1 YEAR ago I think McHale is an okay coach. We don't need to get a new coach just so McHale isn't the coach. I don't think there are many great coaches available and the ones that are might be hesitant to coach the Rockets because they are not contenders YET. My biggest problem with McHale is his reluctance to give minutes to rookies.
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago Yes, that article mentions the study I was referencing, and it seems to be a major part of this book. A few things it did not address specifically (that I would have liked to know more about, i.e. Jackson's triangle offense vs. another system for the same player), but it doesn't seem like that stupid of a hypothesis, even prima facie. Its conclusion was essentially saying that great coaches can be a difference, but most coaches are hood ornaments lol. McHale certainly does not fall into the great coach exception, so if the study is accepted as true (an "if" because I haven't seen the raw data and how it was utilized), he's earned a slight reprieve from me because where the team is now, I don't see much benefit in replacing him. That doesn't mean I'm still not critical of a few of the things he does.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago Bryan Colangelo, in his 15 years as an NBA general manager, has employed eight coaches. And the way David Berri sees it, all that firing and hiring has mostly been in vain.

    “Most NBA coaches have no impact on the performance of their players,” said Berri.

    David Berri isn't an NBA GM. He’s a PhD in economics who recently co-authored a book that takes a dim view of the NBA’s coaching carousel. Stumbling on Wins, a wide-ranging work that attempts to stamp some empirical truth on the sporting world’s murky mumbo-jumbo, contains key results of a 2009 academic study that attempted to determine the impact of NBA coaches. And while the study concluded that some coaches make a difference — Phil Jackson, the 10-ringed Zen master currently helm of the L.A. Lakers, is heralded by the numbers as a transformative genius — the overwhelming gist is that an NBA team is only as good as its players.

    “If the Raptors got a new coach, what would he say to (Andrea) Bargnani? ‘We'd like you to get 15 rebounds a game?’ ” Berri said in a recent interview. “Bargnani would probably say, ‘Well, I'd like to get 15 rebounds a game, too. But that's not going to happen unless you make the game 300 minutes long.’ That's the thing about (NBA players): You can't dramatically alter their performance.”

    NBA teams, of course, often attempt to sell an opposing view. A new coach equals new hope, no matter that the players haven't much changed. But a read through Stumbling on Wins, which includes the key conclusions of a study of 62 NBA coaches from 1977-78 to 2007-08, suggests fans should be weary of such pitches.

    While Raptors coach Jay Triano wasn’t included in the study, some of his predecessors were analyzed. The likes of Sam Mitchell and Lenny Wilkens, said Berri, “had no impact at all” on the performance of their players. The study suggests, on the other hand, that a team hiring Jackson could expect 17 additional victories in his first year on the scene.

    Other coaches who ranked highly in the study: San Antonio’s Gregg Popovich (good for nearly 16 additional wins in his first year with your team), Golden State’s Don Nelson (plus-11 victories in his first year), Flip Saunders and Jim O’Brien. Only one of the eight coaches who have worked under Colangelo made the grade. The study suggests that the theoretical arrival of the late Cotton Fitzsimmons, who worked under Colangelo in Phoenix, could improve a team by about 16 wins in year one.

    “Players tend to get better when they come to Phil Jackson,” write Berri and Schmidt. And players, Berri added in an interview, don't get worse after they leave Jackson, which suggests their improvement can't merely explained by their presence on the same floor as, say, Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant, or their role in Jackson's triangle offence. The study found, for instance, that players saw drop-offs in production after leaving the unorthodox system run by Nelson.

    What do NBA GMs think of the work of Berri and his colleagues? Berri said he has spoken to a few NBA executives, and he has done a “little bit” of paid number crunching for NBA teams. But he said working for a franchise isn't his goal, nor is gaining the approval of front-office executives.

    “I think people in the NBA read what I write. They just won't publicly react to it,” Berri said.

    Colangelo, for his part, said he has read only parts of the first book-length project in which Berri was involved, 2006’s The Wages of Wins. The GM has yet to crack Stumbling on Wins. But told of the crux of the NBA coaching study therein, Colangelo took umbrage.

    “There's too many human elements in our game to rely solely on numbers to determine, ‘Oh, one guy's a good coach and one guy's not a good coach,’ ” said Colangelo. “There are all kinds of ways you can cut up data and statistics.”

    If one detects skepticism emanating from Colangelo's corner office to Berri’s ivory tower, maybe it's mutual. Berri spent part of an afternoon this week mocking what he perceived to be the absurdity of many an NBA reality, including the coach-run sideline huddle.

    “I saw where Adrian Dantley (coaching the Denver Nuggets) kept saying, ‘We're giving up too many layups.’ And it's like the players were sitting there saying, ‘Yes, we know. We don't want them to get layups, either. Why don’t you tell us how to stop them?’ ” said Berri. “They keep putting the mic on (Boston coach Doc Rivers) and he keeps saying the same thing, ‘We've got to play like a team.’ I mean, I’m getting tired of that. I can't imagine what the players are thinking. . . . You've got to imagine (Celtics forward) Kevin Garnett, when Doc Rivers is talking, is, like, “Are you done yet? Can I go play? Yep. Play like a team. Got it.” That's coaching.”

    This article raises a few points, but I agree that coaches don't improve players skills, but great coaches improve their efficiency.
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 23 February 2013 - 19:13 PM said:


    I'm fine with keeping Mchale this year, only because there's nobody better for them this season. But if they plan on being title contenders in the near future they might have to get a new coach.


    I feel the same way. The only concern then is the transaction cost of switching from Coach A to Coach B at time C. If that can be minimized (in terms of how it would affect the team's performance), then McHale away for now!
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    thejohnnygold, on 23 February 2013 - 15:26 PM said:


    McHale is not in charge of player development. That would be these guys:

    Jesse Mermuys (College - Arizona)
    Greg Buckner (College - Clemson)

    I can see, somewhat, how his rotations might seem weird. Watching the game last night it is evident that those kids are still figuring out what a foul is and isn't....let alone how to avoid committing them. On offense, they seem to understand their roles pretty well and are able to execute. On defense, they are trying valiantly, but they can't stay on the floor for long once the sharks smell blood.



    Sorry, that was my fault in using the phrase "player development" the way I did. I totally did not mean it that way lol. I meant on a more psychological/mental level. His rotations can sap or build confidence. The minutes he doles out (to who and how) can sap or build confidence. I meant "development" in that sense. What I've seen from the NBA the last few yrs is the players are really finicky lol. I swear I would not be able to get away with the D12 diva moves at my job, and I'm definitely not paid millions of dollars. So player confidence and stability and security -- that is what I don't like about McHale's coaching. It seems to have gotten better as of late, but in the beginning of the season, a lot of his rotations were seemingly inexplicable...to me at least, and from the faces (and sometimes comments) of the players, to them as well lol. Even if he had a GREAT reason to do it, perception is often times > reality. I'd like him to fix up that issue.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago I'm fine with keeping Mchale this year, only because there's nobody better for them this season. But if they plan on being title contenders in the near future they might have to get a new coach.
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 23 February 2013 - 15:35 PM said:


    "A coach is nothing more than a hood ornament?" Lol. That has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. There's no difference between Pop and Mchale since they're both hood ornaments? Head Coaches develop a system and are responsible for coaching that system and adapting it to the current player's strengths. Pop has changed his offense to be run through Parker not Duncan. Phil's triangle in LA was different than in CHI. The assistant coaches are responsible for coaching minute details and improving the skill levels of the players.


    Just what the study said. /shrugs, as much as I believe Benjamin Disraeli's comments that there are only 3 kinds of lies (lies, damned lies and statistics), I generally tend to believe empirical evidence more than the "eye test" or anecdotes. The latter mean virtually nothing to me. Besides, stats and numbers don't lie -- they just get misused. But I'm just summarizing that study; I think it might have also mentioned something like the greatest coaches do have some effect, esp. relative to the worst coaches, but its overall point was that in most situations, in reality, coaches don't really matter. McHale would not fall into a "greatest coaches" category so that caveat hardly disturbs the point.

    Not saying the study is correct, but Bean got plastered when he brought his "math" into baseball as well. Kinda wish I could find that study again and refresh my memory on what it actually said. Big picture takeaways often come back flawed lol.
  • Brookaveli says 1 YEAR ago

    rocketrick, on 21 February 2013 - 05:02 AM said:


    I haven't heard of 1 single player having anything negative to say about Coach McHale.


    Kyle Lowry.That said, I'm fine with keeping McHale.  It's been a rough year personally for him and the timing of the roster changes didn't make things particularly easy, either.  The Rockets have been entertaining and competitive.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago Now if he had said baseball managers....if ever there was a hood ornament :lol:

    Now, in all fairness, Phaketrash did acknowledge that McHale has created an environment that is allowing this team to thrive. It's the difference between pee-wee basketball and college level. You don't spoil the fun for them by telling them how terrribly they do everything and running them into the ground with execution plays. You let them play and figure it out--then point out what they can do better. The time will come when that will not be enough--probably sooner than they would like--but for now let the kids play and learn and enjoy basketball. I'd say McHale understands that and is doing a great job of it.

    These guys are still figuring out how to set legal screens...how are they supposed to run plays like the Spurs do?

    Which reminds me, if anyone saw the closing minute of the Spurs/Warriors game it was the epitome of veteran coaching and veteran players getting it done in the end. The Spurs ended up losing in overtime cuz Jarret Jack forgot he was Jarret Jack and went full assassin on them--it happens.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago "A coach is nothing more than a hood ornament?" Lol. That has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. There's no difference between Pop and Mchale since they're both hood ornaments? Head Coaches develop a system and are responsible for coaching that system and adapting it to the current player's strengths. Pop has changed his offense to be run through Parker not Duncan. Phil's triangle in LA was different than in CHI. The assistant coaches are responsible for coaching minute details and improving the skill levels of the players.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago McHale is not in charge of player development. That would be these guys:

    Jesse Mermuys (College - Arizona)
    Greg Buckner (College - Clemson)

    I can see, somewhat, how his rotations might seem weird. Watching the game last night it is evident that those kids are still figuring out what a foul is and isn't....let alone how to avoid committing them. On offense, they seem to understand their roles pretty well and are able to execute. On defense, they are trying valiantly, but they can't stay on the floor for long once the sharks smell blood.

    Don't believe me? Check out Andray Blatche goin' playground on D-Mo here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoTHqotNQkM
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago I remember that study awhile back that showed no real positive correlation between coach and a team's record. That coaches in the NBA are sort of like hood ornaments; have to be there, but don't really do anything for the car.

    In light of that, I guess I see a coach as bringing a group together, what they teach the team, and also how they develop players. I can't really speak for the first few elements, but imagine McHale is pretty good at those (from what third sources say). My complaint with him has more to do with player development, in a sense. I don't really like how he distributes minutes. I don't like how erratic it seems, and I sometimes don't like the message it sends. Would our record be the same with a different coach? Probably -- but I wonder if players would have developed a bit differently too (for better or worse; imo, better).
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    So let me get this straight. You guys say I have lousy point guards and power forwards, but I'm supposed to be winning more games with these same "lousy" players? Which one is it?

    I'm struggling to hear your reasoning over the sound of my winning record.
  • miketheodio says 1 YEAR ago how well should this team be doing? i dont think any coach could get this team to the 5th spot and into the second round this year. you guys seem to be expecting a lot for the youngest team in the league.

    seriously what should the rockets record be with a better coach?
  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago Kade: assuming that we need winners, I guess you would like Morey to hire someone like Coach Pop, right? Why don't we do that? Right....because we can't! How many coaches who are still in the league or available have rings? Following your logic, Jerry Sloan is/was a bad coach, right? The Van Gundy brothers are bad? Not every guy who has coached less than 5 years can be as good as Thibodeau, just to name an example.

    McHale is not a good coach, at least not yet, but he is improving, just like our players are. Like my dear johnnygold said, "Phil Jackson wouldn't get this team to the finals this year", so....what's the harm in letting McHale end his contract and reevaluate from there? We weren't playoff bound this year, not even with Harden, and now we are bitching about being only 3 games ahead of the Lakers? COME OOOOON! We are definitely overachieving, and even if McHale is or isn't the right coach for us, he is part of this team now, the ones who are overachieving (or "ahead of schedule regarding getting our way into contention in the mid-term future", call it what you like), why mess with what's working?

    Two years from now, Harden will be entering his real prime, Asik will be set as a true starter in this league (and hopefully, offensively improved), Lin will be settled and more consistant, so....when McHale finishes his contract, you evaluate what's more adecuate: re-signing a probably improved McHale or sign a experienced coach that excels in the X's and O's.

    McHale definitely was not the right man for last year's team, but it might be the right one for this roster. Other coaches I'd like to coach this current team are Monty Williams (because I truly believe he is better than McHale inside that mold of lack of experience, he could do so much more with our roster rather than NOLA's) or Pop (for painfully obvious reasons). I repeat, coaches to lead our CURRENT team, maybe in two years the answer is different.

    Really glad to see Morey stick around a bit longer and continue with this project. He is one of the best in my opinion and is nice to have him on our side. Time will tell if we were all right or if we got fooled and Kade was right all along.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago I am of the mind that the Rockets are doing it right--coaching-wise. As was talked about on the previous page, letting the kids develop chemistry and have fun learning the game under McHale is very wise and appropriate. In time, they will bring in an ASSISTANT coach who is all X's and O's to handle that portion of the game--strategy and execution. Maybe they already have him, but are content to let the kids learn...it's just like learning not to touch a hot stove....your parent's told you...but it only sunk in after you got burned.

    And let's be frank, Phil Jackson wouldn't get this team to the finals this year....in fact, in my opinion, barring injury, the title stays in Miami until Lebron comes back to Earth. The guy is just way ahead of the pack every single night....and remember, he is "saving" himself for the playoffs. So, giving ourselves a 2 year target to peak wouldn't be a terrible idea....let Lebron cool off a little first.
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago I will also agree to disagree on McHale. Like I said before, I think he's learning as a coach, which is nice, and he's getting better, which is even nicer, but unlike players, I care less about my coach's personal development -- I'd rather just hire a better one. McHale isn't horribad, esp since he's improving, but I only find him "adequate." I'd keep him till end of the season for sure.

    Players love him, analysts seem to like him, haha, so that does sort of matter. Playing for a coach you like helps a young, growing team. Maybe he's even the right coach for the Rockets right now, which was something Morey alluded to (though that was when he was considering going into tank mode, and not beast mode w/ Harden).

    As for Morey, I'm really happy he got an extension. Often shows me why he's better than most other GMs in the league. Not saying Morey doesn't make mistakes -- in a way, drafting MM was a small mistake -- but I'm always confident he'll fix them. That's how much I like him -- where I feel like he'll turn that PHX 2nd round pick he got for MM into something we're all dazzled by in a yr, or at least into an asset to get another great piece. He's cool like that haha.
  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago I know you disagree and that's fine but I would specifically say McHale is a very good coach for this team right now and that he is an above average coach and in reality the verdict is still out (not that opinions on forums mean anything at all) and he might end up being a very good or great coach by the time it's all said and done. In reality McHale is relatively early into his coaching career. I am sure we have different opinions on this but that one point about McHale is part of a larger view expressed in my post above. Everything should be considered in the context it was conveyed, this is a thread about Morey lest we forget.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago I disagree about Mchale being a "very good" coach. He's more in the vein of average to slightly above averge.
  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago Take it easy Kade. Let's keep this about basketball and refrain from personal attacks or suggestions about forum members. Of course that is to everyone, we don't make personal attacks, here on Red94 we have a higher standard so lets all adhere to that gents.

    Back to the debate. Look you have a right to your opinion but opinions are not facts so do not overstep your bounds. Morey is looking like a great GM right now and he is definitely one of the best in the league. As far as McHale goes I don't believe anyone said he is a great coach but I do agree with Rocketrick that he is a very good coach, has players that are dedicated to him and is probably the perfect fit for the stage this team is at. Rocketrick and I are not alone, we don't forget too much considering how long we have been fans. Heck I have been a Rockets can since the mid 80's (probably similar to Rocketrick) almost 3 decades and that should speak volumes.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    rocketrick, on 21 February 2013 - 05:11 AM said:




    I stated 0/2 because Morey is receiving an extension on his contract and White has rejoined the Rockets and has started playing in the D-League. I don't agree with your position (or many others in this thread) regarding the need to fire Coach McHale. So technically you are 0/3 but until Coach McHale receives his first contract extension I will leave it as being 0/2 for the time being.

    Morey will most likely win GM of the year, by the way. The players love playing for Coach McHale, I just don't see why anyone would expect that Coach McHale is on his way out so soon after joining the Rockets franchise. Wouldn't it be something if Royce White tears it up in the D-League and joins the Rockets before the end of the season and proves that he belongs in the NBA? May not happen, but it is more likely than not now that Royce is back on the court. Morey valued 2 particular players in the 2012 NBA draft as being a top 5---Royce White and Thomas Robinson. How many other teams have 2 of the top 5 valued players from that draft or any of the more recent drafts?

    Great job by Coach McHale and the team by outlasting OKC tonight! Very exciting times to look forward to as our team continues to grow!!!


    I'm certainly not 0/3 . I said two needed to be fired and one player was a throw away pick. There's not a timetable and didn't put a deadline.
    You thinking McHale is a great coach sort of speaks volumes about you. FYI OKC blew the F out of the rockets two times this year. Forgot that?
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    rocketrick, on 21 February 2013 - 05:02 AM said:




    Completely different situation then...........Chaney by the way won Coach of the Year in 1990-91 before being fired halfway through the following season and replaced by Rudy T. So it's not like Chaney was a "dud" of a Coach. Instead, as i recall the situation had much more to do with Olajuwan and his ongoing contract talks with the Rockets ownership which was having quite a debilitating affect on the entire team during Chaney's last season. That and Chaney never related well to his players, completely unlike the current situation with Coach McHale. I haven't heard of 1 single player having anything negative to say about Coach McHale. With all the change that has taken place in the past few months (Parsons and Greg Smith are the only remaining players left on the current roster from last season), the last thing the Rockets needs to do is make a coaching change. The players love playing for Coach McHale and that is good enough for me to say Coach McHale is our guy for the foreseeable future.


    Same thing and you recall incorrectly
  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    feelingsupersonic, on 20 February 2013 - 18:11 PM said:


    In the same way that chemistry is essential to team on court performance I also believe there is something to be said for chemistry among a coaching staff and specifically how the head coach leads the organization. I believe running plays are important but at this stage in the Rockets development other aspects of coaching are more important. I agree with what Phil Jackson said in an interview with Jack McCallum here and I believe it illustrates that you can get some good X's and O's guys on staff when a team core is in place and you are playing big games with big moments but until then it is just prologue.

    SI: A final obvious question: What do you miss about coaching?
    Jackson: What you might expect. Being around the other coaches, being around the guys. It's what I talked about in my book [Eleven Rings>. Coaching is about, "How do I get these people to play at their peak level?" Yeah, the X's and O's mean something, but you can get people to do that. And a lot of those guys have been hired. The Lawrence Franks and the Frank Vogels. Mike Brown was one of those guys. That's not a knock. Those guys know how to coach the game.
    But coaching is much more than that. It is a spiritual quest. And if it's not that, you don't have a challenge, you don't have a mission. Forming a brotherhood and trying to move it forward, that's the part that I miss.
    .


    Thanks FSS, great insight into the mind of one of the all-time great coaches! Let's see if Coach MHale can channel some Phil Jackson..........
  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 20 February 2013 - 18:24 PM said:


    0/2? I said White, Morey and McHale need to be canned. Now, will that happen? Given the history of Houston sports teams usually they can people many years down the road than they should (go back to Oiler years as prime example all the way to present Texans and Rockets).

    White is a bust and won't even last as a Rocket for long. He's in the d-league. Bust.

    Look will Alexander smartly fire Morey and McHale? Most likely not but that doesn't mean by keeping them and extending their contracts = they will be successful. So far the only reason why he should is because he disregards the past and relies on "HOPE" that things will deviate and change.
    Successful teams never employ this approach and you can separate the winners from the losers across all major sports. It's not a coinsidence that Houston isn't a winning city when it comes to sports. From the media to majority of fans, they don't expect and demand for winners. Instead, they look towards the future.
    FYI: In the NBA the worst thing to have is a young across the board team. That's a common mistake from many fans that having one of the youngest teams is actually a bonus. It's actually the complete opposite.

    On another note, I'm a huge Harden fan and wished last year watching him in the postseason that we could get a Harden like player. Make no mistake Morey was given a gift because of the screwups of other teams. This wasn't Morey working his magic. Any one of us could have been the GM and still got Harden.

    Finally, anyone can rip my thread but the facts are smacking you in the face, Morey and McHale haven't been winners once since they have taken office or as a coach (or both). Rebuilding each year is the sign of a organization who are clueless. If you want to turn it around and say they are doing this to get the pieces they want and have to do this year after year then you either haven't followed the NBA or don't want to come to grips with reality.

    Think of this, Lakers are having an epic all time worst season and they are only a handful of games back. Even getting in the postseason we are one and done. Will Houston throw a parade if that happens? Given the history I bet they will.

    I love my teams but I won't stick up for them when they aren't running the teams I pull for the right way or the way you have to in order to win.


    I stated 0/2 because Morey is receiving an extension on his contract and White has rejoined the Rockets and has started playing in the D-League. I don't agree with your position (or many others in this thread) regarding the need to fire Coach McHale. So technically you are 0/3 but until Coach McHale receives his first contract extension I will leave it as being 0/2 for the time being.

    Morey will most likely win GM of the year, by the way. The players love playing for Coach McHale, I just don't see why anyone would expect that Coach McHale is on his way out so soon after joining the Rockets franchise. Wouldn't it be something if Royce White tears it up in the D-League and joins the Rockets before the end of the season and proves that he belongs in the NBA? May not happen, but it is more likely than not now that Royce is back on the court. Morey valued 2 particular players in the 2012 NBA draft as being a top 5---Royce White and Thomas Robinson. How many other teams have 2 of the top 5 valued players from that draft or any of the more recent drafts?

    Great job by Coach McHale and the team by outlasting OKC tonight! Very exciting times to look forward to as our team continues to grow!!!
  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 20 February 2013 - 18:30 PM said:


    sort of like never wanting to fire Cheney and have Rudy T come in during season...oh wait, yea, no reason to ever fire a HC until after the season is over :rolleyes:


    Completely different situation then...........Chaney by the way won Coach of the Year in 1990-91 before being fired halfway through the following season and replaced by Rudy T. So it's not like Chaney was a "dud" of a Coach. Instead, as i recall the situation had much more to do with Olajuwan and his ongoing contract talks with the Rockets ownership which was having quite a debilitating affect on the entire team during Chaney's last season. That and Chaney never related well to his players, completely unlike the current situation with Coach McHale. I haven't heard of 1 single player having anything negative to say about Coach McHale. With all the change that has taken place in the past few months (Parsons and Greg Smith are the only remaining players left on the current roster from last season), the last thing the Rockets needs to do is make a coaching change. The players love playing for Coach McHale and that is good enough for me to say Coach McHale is our guy for the foreseeable future.
  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago

    rockets best fan, on 20 February 2013 - 16:51 PM said:


    the only thing we have in common with denver is the pace at which we play. denver has no star they are built around players who are boederline stars. we on the other hand are built around a star(harden). as for coaches who could coach a ring around mc hale? either van gundy jeff or stan(even though getting stan would not be good for a howard run) nate mc millian and brian shaw just to name a few. fact is mc hale couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag with one end open and a knife in hand. this is the main reason the rockets can not close out close games. if you look at the wins we have very few are in close games because when the game slows in the last few minutes he is unable to get the team in position to execute set plays. we simply fall on harden to iso more often than not. he has no plays we can execute at the end of a quater, half or end of games. trust me their are plenty of options when it comes to coaches. i'm not saying we should make an in season move, but end of this year........yes. it's time to stop babysitting mc hale and get a real coach.


    What has Brian Shaw ever done in the league as a coach except hold Phil's seat cushion and special high chair? He runs the triangle which requires a big man with ball skills.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    rockets best fan, on 20 February 2013 - 18:39 PM said:


    Kade:
    welcome back...........I thought that morey contract extension news had chase you off :lol: while we don't always agree I look forward to some spirited discussions B)


    ;)

    Yea, can't live on the boards, got to work. That said, this reminds me of the Texans (don't even get me started with them), why start extending contracts?
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 20 February 2013 - 19:58 PM said:


    Who thinks the Spurs assistant coach would be a good fit(Budenholzer). He's coached well in Pop's absence and the Spurs are a GOOD offensive team that plays defense. That's the kind of guy we need to go after. Pop's proteges succed in the NBA, unlike Phil's. Say what you like about Mike Brown, but he can coach some defense. Vinnie Del Negro has coached the Clips to a good record(albeit CP3 has a lot to do with that). Avery Johnson took a team to a finals(got run off by coach killer D-Will and Lopez being injured). Coach Williams with the Hornets looks good so far. So I think getting the assistant coach for the Spurs would be good. He's learned under Pop, but he's also been there during the transition from defense to offense oriented teams and so knows how to be flexible to fit his personnel.
    I was with all the way up to that vinny del negro part :lol: vinny is lost plain and simple. if it wasn't for cp3 vinny would be gone already. avery rode dirk's cape. so studying under a good coach isn't a sure bet you will learn anything. i'm sure their are good examples both ways, but it come down to personality.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 20 February 2013 - 19:59 PM said:


    He's a great coach. I think he's the premiere ego massager. But I rank him second all-time behind Pop.


    That's cool. I wasn't comparing them. I was only referring to him regarding Houston's current situation and the Parson's interview.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    thejohnnygold, on 20 February 2013 - 19:55 PM said:


    Funny stuff. Kade, it's not your opinion on the matter I mind--it is the "solid" reasoning you support your stance with. Nearly everything you say in defense of your point is contrived or flat-out wrong. We are passionate about the Rockets too, but most of us need evidence beyond, "I told you so", to be convinced of something....this is my challenge to you, sir.

    I watched the Chandler Parsons video interview that was posted a few days ago. It was ok. What was interesting, and relevant, is he talked about the Rockets' offense and, specifically, how it is being coached. He went on to say that they intentionally do not employ a "system" or many set plays because that way the defense has no idea what they are going to do at any moment and cannot "set up for it"....of course, when it falls apart it can look terrible, but that is the logic being employed by McHale and the Rockets--like it or not. Parsons, for one, seems to genuinely like it.

    I can see how, as a player, working in a system like this would be way more fun than executing set plays over and over and over. Basketball is at it's best when it flows like jazz music--improvised and created out of years of experience and practice where the synergy of the players makes magic.

    Referring to the Phil Jackson quote ST posted earlier, I think he nailed it. Hire those X-O guys when your team is ready. Losing a few games this season due to ineffective late game play is not the end of the world. After reading that snippet I like Jackson a lot more as a coach.


    He's a great coach. I think he's the premiere ego massager. But I rank him second all-time behind Pop.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago Who thinks the Spurs assistant coach would be a good fit(Budenholzer). He's coached well in Pop's absence and the Spurs are a GOOD offensive team that plays defense. That's the kind of guy we need to go after. Pop's proteges succed in the NBA, unlike Phil's. Say what you like about Mike Brown, but he can coach some defense. Vinnie Del Negro has coached the Clips to a good record(albeit CP3 has a lot to do with that). Avery Johnson took a team to a finals(got run off by coach killer D-Will and Lopez being injured). Coach Williams with the Hornets looks good so far. So I think getting the assistant coach for the Spurs would be good. He's learned under Pop, but he's also been there during the transition from defense to offense oriented teams and so knows how to be flexible to fit his personnel.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago Funny stuff. Kade, it's not your opinion on the matter I mind--it is the "solid" reasoning you support your stance with. Nearly everything you say in defense of your point is contrived or flat-out wrong. We are passionate about the Rockets too, but most of us need evidence beyond, "I told you so", to be convinced of something....this is my challenge to you, sir.

    I watched the Chandler Parsons video interview that was posted a few days ago. It was ok. What was interesting, and relevant, is he talked about the Rockets' offense and, specifically, how it is being coached. He went on to say that they intentionally do not employ a "system" or many set plays because that way the defense has no idea what they are going to do at any moment and cannot "set up for it"....of course, when it falls apart it can look terrible, but that is the logic being employed by McHale and the Rockets--like it or not. Parsons, for one, seems to genuinely like it.

    I can see how, as a player, working in a system like this would be way more fun than executing set plays over and over and over. Basketball is at it's best when it flows like jazz music--improvised and created out of years of experience and practice where the synergy of the players makes magic.

    Referring to the Phil Jackson quote ST posted earlier, I think he nailed it. Hire those X-O guys when your team is ready. Losing a few games this season due to ineffective late game play is not the end of the world. After reading that snippet I like Jackson a lot more as a coach.
  • Tyler1411 says 1 YEAR ago Kade I have read many times on this forum about your praise of Sam Presti, and how good of a GM he is. For two years OKC had the youngest team in the NBA when they were building around their young stars. Now you knock Morey for doing the exact same thing? I agree having a young team is not great for a championship run, albeit OKC did go to the finals with an average age of 25 years, but when you are trying to develop a championship caliber team you want to start with young talent and fill the needs around them.
  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago PKM, don't mind Kade. He thinks all of us normal Rockets fans, the informed majority that is, are "nuts" and that we will "jump on his bandwagon" someday, pretty delusional. You can't debate with him. He is a Rockets fan so I give him credit for that.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago Kade:
    welcome back...........I thought that morey contract extension news had chase you off :lol: while we don't always agree I look forward to some spirited discussions B)
  • PKM says 1 YEAR ago @Kade: At this point, I'm not even sure what your complaint is. I mean, Morey's bad because he's not a "winner?" You state that having a young team is a bad thing...while your earlier posts were advocating that the Rockets should tank year after year until the next Lebron or Olajuwon falls into our lap. You state that Morey didn't do anything great by getting Harden because other teams screwed up, while say praising the Lakers, a team who basically did the same thing to get Pau Gasol.

    And let me also clarify one more thing: are you suggesting that a New York style media is a good thing? To have Stephen A. Smith or the New York Post doing their...stuff?
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    PKM, on 20 February 2013 - 18:25 PM said:


    I'm...fairly confused about that statistic. It sounds like you're saying "If you ignore all the games where we blow out opponents, which we do a lot, then this team's record isn't very good." That's well, common sense, and doesn't McHale get credit for those games where we do blow out the opponent?
    i'm not saying that mc hale doesn't have good days because he does every now and then. overall he is not the right man for the job. it's a pattern I see in him. he doesn't make good decisions in clutch situations. that's my point why he should be fired end of season unlike what Kade is calling for.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    rockets best fan, on 20 February 2013 - 17:45 PM said:


    PKM:
    if you like mc hale just say it :lol: I don't. I am not the average fan just gripping about a coach. I have been watching basketball for over forty years and I know a good coach when I see one. sorry to say mc hale is no coach, but a fact is a fact. he may be ok for player developement, but in game coaching? he stinks. fact is if he didn't have some pretty good coaches next to him on the bench he would probably already be gone. mc hale is simply a bridge to our next coach. it's time to upgrade that position at the end of the year(IMO) as for our loses on the year...............houston is one of the few teams with a winning record overall and loosing record in games decided by 5 points or less. this means we can not execute in the clutch. that falls on a coach more than any other stat (IMO). it's his job to figure out how to get his team in position to close a game. sure there will be nights the other teams star gets hot, but more often than not it's about who is better able to execute, run a play, and play tough defense. iso ball will win some games, but live by the sword die by the sword. iso ball limits a team and makes things easy for the defense. any real coach knows that, but it appears that's all mc hale knows. we probably have less structured plays than any other team in basketball. the pick and roll is very nice, but we need to be more than a 1 trick pony. that is why denver beats the sock off us every time they see us. at the end of a game they have several plays they can go to for the win. we only have harden on iso and the pick and roll. they know what we are doing and have us guessing what they are doing at the same time. we will never beat the top teams on a regular bases until we expand our game closing offense. sure part of that is adding another star player, but not all of it.


    Come to Houston where people who should never be head coaches can and as a bonus the delusional/clueless fans will defend to the end. Kubiak and McHale we welcome you to run our teams and wonder why nobody else wants them. Oh well there's always next year where we are going to kick the SOB in, right Bum? Nope!
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 20 February 2013 - 15:54 PM said:


    I don't think any of us want him fired in the middle of the season(with the exception of Kade). But you're right that there aren't many big name guys available. Phil's retired. Sloan is kind of old to relate to players(although we saw how much BETTER his system made D-Will and Boozer). Mike Brown would get our defense in order, but has severe offensive liabilities(I wouldn't mind them hiring him to be a d-coordinator, he's a great defensive mind). So, we would have to put our trust in Morey to find a better coach.


    sort of like never wanting to fire Cheney and have Rudy T come in during season...oh wait, yea, no reason to ever fire a HC until after the season is over :rolleyes:
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago Anyone who defends McHale should immediately hand in their NBA card or go check yourself into your nearest hospital. You are either nuts, delusional or stopped watching the NBA after her retired as a player and was a die hard McHale fan.
  • PKM says 1 YEAR ago

    rockets best fan, on 20 February 2013 - 18:18 PM said:


    well let me expand that thought. maybe decided by 5 or fewer is the wrong phase. when we are in the forth period in a game within 5 points either way, because we lose many of these games by more than 5 due to execution.

    I'm...fairly confused about that statistic. It sounds like you're saying "If you ignore all the games where we blow out opponents, which we do a lot, then this team's record isn't very good." That's well, common sense, and doesn't McHale get credit for those games where we do blow out the opponent?
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    rocketrick, on 20 February 2013 - 01:35 AM said:


    Damn, Kade is 0/2 with only Coach McHale left in this thread. I seriously doubt Leslie Alexander and Daryl Morey are going to "fire" Coach McHale after just 1 strike shortened season and the second season with practically a completely new roster and oh yeah, some guy named Harden joininge Rockets AFTER the pre-season. My prediction thus is Kade will end up 0/3. Does anyone know how many practices the Rockets actually have during the regular season? Very, very few and the ones they have are important. Kind of hard to put in a complete new system once Harden joined the Rockets without much practice time. I think Coach McHale and his staff have done an outstanding job so far with the new roster et al.


    0/2? I said White, Morey and McHale need to be canned. Now, will that happen? Given the history of Houston sports teams usually they can people many years down the road than they should (go back to Oiler years as prime example all the way to present Texans and Rockets).

    White is a bust and won't even last as a Rocket for long. He's in the d-league. Bust.

    Look will Alexander smartly fire Morey and McHale? Most likely not but that doesn't mean by keeping them and extending their contracts = they will be successful. So far the only reason why he should is because he disregards the past and relies on "HOPE" that things will deviate and change.
    Successful teams never employ this approach and you can separate the winners from the losers across all major sports. It's not a coinsidence that Houston isn't a winning city when it comes to sports. From the media to majority of fans, they don't expect and demand for winners. Instead, they look towards the future.
    FYI: In the NBA the worst thing to have is a young across the board team. That's a common mistake from many fans that having one of the youngest teams is actually a bonus. It's actually the complete opposite.

    On another note, I'm a huge Harden fan and wished last year watching him in the postseason that we could get a Harden like player. Make no mistake Morey was given a gift because of the screwups of other teams. This wasn't Morey working his magic. Any one of us could have been the GM and still got Harden.

    Finally, anyone can rip my thread but the facts are smacking you in the face, Morey and McHale haven't been winners once since they have taken office or as a coach (or both). Rebuilding each year is the sign of a organization who are clueless. If you want to turn it around and say they are doing this to get the pieces they want and have to do this year after year then you either haven't followed the NBA or don't want to come to grips with reality.

    Think of this, Lakers are having an epic all time worst season and they are only a handful of games back. Even getting in the postseason we are one and done. Will Houston throw a parade if that happens? Given the history I bet they will.

    I love my teams but I won't stick up for them when they aren't running the teams I pull for the right way or the way you have to in order to win.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago well let me expand that thought. maybe decided by 5 or fewer is the wrong phase. when we are in the forth period in a game within 5 points either way, because we lose many of these games by more than 5 due to execution.
  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago In the same way that chemistry is essential to team on court performance I also believe there is something to be said for chemistry among a coaching staff and specifically how the head coach leads the organization. I believe running plays are important but at this stage in the Rockets development other aspects of coaching are more important. I agree with what Phil Jackson said in an interview with Jack McCallum here and I believe it illustrates that you can get some good X's and O's guys on staff when a team core is in place and you are playing big games with big moments but until then it is just prologue.

    SI: A final obvious question: What do you miss about coaching?
    Jackson: What you might expect. Being around the other coaches, being around the guys. It's what I talked about in my book [Eleven Rings>. Coaching is about, "How do I get these people to play at their peak level?" Yeah, the X's and O's mean something, but you can get people to do that. And a lot of those guys have been hired. The Lawrence Franks and the Frank Vogels. Mike Brown was one of those guys. That's not a knock. Those guys know how to coach the game.
    But coaching is much more than that. It is a spiritual quest. And if it's not that, you don't have a challenge, you don't have a mission. Forming a brotherhood and trying to move it forward, that's the part that I miss.




    And to address losing close games well that is to be expected of young teams who are unfamiliar playing with each other.
  • PKM says 1 YEAR ago

    Ostrow, on 20 February 2013 - 17:29 PM said:


    You know which coach might be great for this team? Rick Adleman....

    It would have been nice if he could have stuck around and I definitely like him more than McHale, but I think it's fairly apparent from his Minnesota tenure that he basically wanted to run a team, and that wasn't happening. Oh well.

    @Rockets:
    I'm just fairly "meh" on McHale. Not good, not bad, but okay. I don't think firing him and hiring say, another average coach like Mike Brown is going to make that huge difference towards the season. That aside...

    Quote:

    houston is one of the few teams with a winning record overall and loosing record in games decided by 5 points or less.

    This is simply not true. We have had six games this season decided by 5 points or less. We beat New Orleans, Chicago, the Lakers, and Minnesota, and lost to Portland and Dallas. 4-2 record. Furthermore, even if we were say, 4-5, 9 games would be far too small of a sample size to determine something like late-game execution, much less 6. Combine that with the fact that late-game execution just frequently comes down to just making tough shots anyways, and I think it's irrelevant. Portland, for example, has had way too many games where they just come from behind and pull off another victory out of their rear ends. I don't attribute that to superior coaching from Terry Stotts, I attribute that to luck. Which can be demonstrated by the fact that they haven't been doing it as much recently, as demonstrated by another comeback which fell short against Phoenix.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago PKM:
    if you like mc hale just say it :lol: I don't. I am not the average fan just gripping about a coach. I have been watching basketball for over forty years and I know a good coach when I see one. sorry to say mc hale is no coach, but a fact is a fact. he may be ok for player developement, but in game coaching? he stinks. fact is if he didn't have some pretty good coaches next to him on the bench he would probably already be gone. mc hale is simply a bridge to our next coach. it's time to upgrade that position at the end of the year(IMO) as for our loses on the year...............houston is one of the few teams with a winning record overall and loosing record in games decided by 5 points or less. this means we can not execute in the clutch. that falls on a coach more than any other stat (IMO). it's his job to figure out how to get his team in position to close a game. sure there will be nights the other teams star gets hot, but more often than not it's about who is better able to execute, run a play, and play tough defense. iso ball will win some games, but live by the sword die by the sword. iso ball limits a team and makes things easy for the defense. any real coach knows that, but it appears that's all mc hale knows. we probably have less structured plays than any other team in basketball. the pick and roll is very nice, but we need to be more than a 1 trick pony. that is why denver beats the sock off us every time they see us. at the end of a game they have several plays they can go to for the win. we only have harden on iso and the pick and roll. they know what we are doing and have us guessing what they are doing at the same time. we will never beat the top teams on a regular bases until we expand our game closing offense. sure part of that is adding another star player, but not all of it.
  • Ostrow says 1 YEAR ago You know which coach might be great for this team? Rick Adleman....
  • PKM says 1 YEAR ago

    rockets best fan, on 20 February 2013 - 16:51 PM said:


    the only thing we have in common with denver is the pace at which we play. denver has no star they are built around players who are boederline stars. we on the other hand are built around a star(harden). as for coaches who could coach a ring around mc hale? either van gundy jeff or stan(even though getting stan would not be good for a howard run) nate mc millian and brian shaw just to name a few. fact is mc hale couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag with one end open and a knife in hand. this is the main reason the rockets can not close out close games. if you look at the wins we have very few are in close games because when the game slows in the last few minutes he is unable to get the team in position to execute set plays. we simply fall on harden to iso more often than not. he has no plays we can execute at the end of a quater, half or end of games. trust me their are plenty of options when it comes to coaches. i'm not saying we should make an in season move, but end of this year........yes. it's time to stop babysitting mc hale and get a real coach.

    Jeff and Stan clearly aren't interested in coaching for now, McMillan as a slow it down, grind it out guy is about the worst possible choice for this team, and while it necessarily isn't Shaw's fault persay, I don't trust Phil's proteges and the triangle at all after living in Minnesota and watching the utter disaster that was Kurt Rambis.

    And going over my recaps and what I've seen, even if you ignore the fact that every team that isn't coached by Pop has this gripe about "the team doesn't execute down the stretch", Houston's losses generally haven't come from some failure to execute. More often than not, the team falls behind in the first quarter and tries to play catchup for the rest of the game. It happened against the Clippers, during the losing streak, and against Denver. From my perspective, a lot of what you're complaining about McHale is sound and fury, which pretty much every annoyed fan will gripe about their coach.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    PKM, on 20 February 2013 - 14:05 PM said:


    Denver kills us because they're a better version of us with a lot less upside. That's what it comes down to.

    Care to give us some specific examples? And the fact is that I don't believe in any coach out there being THAT much better than McHale that it's worth the hassle of firing him and going through the irritation of learning a new system in the middle of the season.
    the only thing we have in common with denver is the pace at which we play. denver has no star they are built around players who are boederline stars. we on the other hand are built around a star(harden). as for coaches who could coach a ring around mc hale? either van gundy jeff or stan(even though getting stan would not be good for a howard run) nate mc millian and brian shaw just to name a few. fact is mc hale couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag with one end open and a knife in hand. this is the main reason the rockets can not close out close games. if you look at the wins we have very few are in close games because when the game slows in the last few minutes he is unable to get the team in position to execute set plays. we simply fall on harden to iso more often than not. he has no plays we can execute at the end of a quater, half or end of games. trust me their are plenty of options when it comes to coaches. i'm not saying we should make an in season move, but end of this year........yes. it's time to stop babysitting mc hale and get a real coach.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    PKM, on 20 February 2013 - 14:05 PM said:


    Denver kills us because they're a better version of us with a lot less upside. That's what it comes down to.

    Care to give us some specific examples? And the fact is that I don't believe in any coach out there being THAT much better than McHale that it's worth the hassle of firing him and going through the irritation of learning a new system in the middle of the season.


    I don't think any of us want him fired in the middle of the season(with the exception of Kade). But you're right that there aren't many big name guys available. Phil's retired. Sloan is kind of old to relate to players(although we saw how much BETTER his system made D-Will and Boozer). Mike Brown would get our defense in order, but has severe offensive liabilities(I wouldn't mind them hiring him to be a d-coordinator, he's a great defensive mind). So, we would have to put our trust in Morey to find a better coach.
  • PKM says 1 YEAR ago

    rockets best fan, on 20 February 2013 - 03:50 AM said:


    not so my good friend......my beef with him is he does not know how to take advantage of mismatches during a game. that's why denver kills us everytime they play us. george karl uses mismatches in his favor and mc hale doesn't know how to counter. that far and away is my biggest beef. some hope he will learn on the fly, but I am of the mindset to bring in someone who already knows what he's doing not trying to learn. while I agree morey is the right man for his job, mc hale should be fired and a new better coach brought in.

    Denver kills us because they're a better version of us with a lot less upside. That's what it comes down to.

    Care to give us some specific examples? And the fact is that I don't believe in any coach out there being THAT much better than McHale that it's worth the hassle of firing him and going through the irritation of learning a new system in the middle of the season.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 20 February 2013 - 01:47 AM said:


    I think the biggest problem most people have with him is that it seems like he's so inconsistent with his rotations. He's not at Coach Smart's level, but he's not that far off. That's the biggest reason people have issues with him.
    not so my good friend......my beef with him is he does not know how to take advantage of mismatches during a game. that's why denver kills us everytime they play us. george karl uses mismatches in his favor and mc hale doesn't know how to counter. that far and away is my biggest beef. some hope he will learn on the fly, but I am of the mindset to bring in someone who already knows what he's doing not trying to learn. while I agree morey is the right man for his job, mc hale should be fired and a new better coach brought in.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago I think the biggest problem most people have with him is that it seems like he's so inconsistent with his rotations. He's not at Coach Smart's level, but he's not that far off. That's the biggest reason people have issues with him.
  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago Damn, Kade is 0/2 with only Coach McHale left in this thread. I seriously doubt Leslie Alexander and Daryl Morey are going to "fire" Coach McHale after just 1 strike shortened season and the second season with practically a completely new roster and oh yeah, some guy named Harden joininge Rockets AFTER the pre-season. My prediction thus is Kade will end up 0/3. Does anyone know how many practices the Rockets actually have during the regular season? Very, very few and the ones they have are important. Kind of hard to put in a complete new system once Harden joined the Rockets without much practice time. I think Coach McHale and his staff have done an outstanding job so far with the new roster et al.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago "Guess I can't make everybody happy....."
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    thejohnnygold, on 17 February 2013 - 16:42 PM said:


    Don't tell Kade :P Just kidding, buddy....hopefully Morey can win you over soon.


    <_<
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 19 February 2013 - 01:31 AM said:


    5 mil / 6mil / 6.5 mil over 3 years is not a bad contract. It wasn't great for a rebuilding team, but for his production, it was about par. It was not a horrendous contract.
    one question..............what are scola stats for this year? in case you haven't noticed there has been a large dropoff in caliber of play. phoenix is looking to dump scola right now as we speak, but can't find anybody willing to take his contract. scola was a nice filler while rebuilding, but no longer fits with the direction we want to go. remember we tried to trade him ourselfs and found no takers. which means either waive him or allow him to eat cap room. remember we would not be having dicussions about cap flexibility if scola was still on our books.
  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 19 February 2013 - 01:31 AM said:




    5 mil / 6mil / 6.5 mil over 3 years is not a bad contract. It wasn't great for a rebuilding team, but for his production, it was about par. It was not a horrendous contract.


    It is when that would put us equal to the cap at the moment, meaning Morey would have zero moves to make at the deadline. With the 6M in cap he might be able to pick up a second round pick while taking on a $6 million player from someone wanting to get under the luxury tax. Scola is an overachiever who is more liked by the fans then the talent evaluators. So to pay him to be on a western conference team that is rebuilding, and eating minutes that should be going to a younger player is money well spent.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    blakecouey, on 19 February 2013 - 00:18 AM said:


    We did get something from Scola. We got out of his horrendous contract with no cap penalty.


    5 mil / 6mil / 6.5 mil over 3 years is not a bad contract. It wasn't great for a rebuilding team, but for his production, it was about par. It was not a horrendous contract.
  • blakecouey says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 18 February 2013 - 21:49 PM said:


    I think Morey's done a good job the last 2 years. Before that, I don't know. But you win some, you lose some. But if he hadn't gotten Harden and lost out on Lin and Asik, I probably would be calling for his head. Results are what matter, and he has been on a hot streak lately and I hope he stays on one. The only criticism I had was the fact that we didn't get anything from Scola.

    We did get something from Scola. We got out of his horrendous contract with no cap penalty.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago I think Morey's done a good job the last 2 years. Before that, I don't know. But you win some, you lose some. But if he hadn't gotten Harden and lost out on Lin and Asik, I probably would be calling for his head. Results are what matter, and he has been on a hot streak lately and I hope he stays on one. The only criticism I had was the fact that we didn't get anything from Scola.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    phaketrash, on 17 February 2013 - 20:10 PM said:


    I'm very happy with this move. Morey is one of the better GMs in the league, and I think most Houston fans appreciate his work. Can't wait to see what else is up his sleeve! lol
    I know..........I would hate to be in a poker game with this guy. his greatest asset.... he has long term vision....something most GMs struggle with. it;s one thing to have a good plan, but the ability to carry it out even with the other GMs working against you can not be underestimated. if les truely did demand he continued winning while rebuilding he has done something very few GMs could pull off. especially considering the other GMs know exactly what he's trying to do. that alone (IMO) is worth a new deal.
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago I'm very happy with this move. Morey is one of the better GMs in the league, and I think most Houston fans appreciate his work. Can't wait to see what else is up his sleeve! lol
  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago Great news that Morey is getting an extension.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    thejohnnygold, on 17 February 2013 - 16:42 PM said:


    Don't tell Kade :P Just kidding, buddy....hopefully Morey can win you over soon.
    Kade may move out of town on that note as bad as he hates morey :lol: this just proves that les is no dummy. he knows a good GM when he sees one. as important as any players we get (leadership at the top) is also part of the championship puzzle. we have a very good GM and too see him get extended means he has been given the keys to finish the rebuild project.............that's good news :)
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago Don't tell Kade :P Just kidding, buddy....hopefully Morey can win you over soon.
  • Steven says 1 YEAR ago This is the best news since the announcement of the Drexler trade.

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