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@  DenverRocket : (18 October 2017 - 05:48 AM) And the talking heads on TNT have already decided that CP3 won't work with the Rockets, lol
@  DenverRocket : (18 October 2017 - 05:46 AM) Oh yes! That wiped the smile off their faces! :)
@  redfaithful : (18 October 2017 - 05:37 AM) That was a fun 4th Q!
@  DenverRocket : (17 October 2017 - 06:53 PM) Good read on CP3 and James: http://www.espn.com/...nded-chris-paul God damn it, I'm excited for tonight! :)
@  thejohnnygold : (16 October 2017 - 09:25 PM) Let's see what kind of improvement he's made since last season...that market value might be pretty high.
@  slick shoes : (16 October 2017 - 07:03 PM) Capela will be an RFA at the end of the season. Will be interesting to see what his market value will be.
@  thejohnnygold : (11 October 2017 - 04:12 PM) LAST CALL FOR FANTASY BASKETBALL!!!!
@  slick shoes : (04 October 2017 - 02:04 PM) Doesn't matter. I still won't watch it.
@  rocketrick : (04 October 2017 - 01:18 PM) The NBA once again is ahead of the Curve........... 2017-18 All Star Game won't be East vs West for obvious reasons
@  redfaithful : (23 September 2017 - 10:54 PM) The OKC experiment just got way more interesting...
@  slick shoes : (22 September 2017 - 12:26 AM) I'm on the fence about Melo coming to Houston, but I would much rather have him here than the Blazers. Hoping we can get something worked out there sooner than later.
@  thejohnnygold : (14 September 2017 - 06:12 PM) Thanks. That was good.
@  slick shoes : (14 September 2017 - 03:18 PM) latest podcast with morey.
@  slick shoes : (14 September 2017 - 03:18 PM) http://bleacherrepor...anking-and-more
@  thejohnnygold : (13 September 2017 - 03:07 PM) Hey, everyone who wants to play fantasy basketball needs to go to the forum below and let us know. The draft will be coming up soon.
@  Losthief : (05 September 2017 - 09:29 PM) Tilman Fertitta....I think I am okay with that.
@  Mario Peña : (30 August 2017 - 04:20 AM) I second that. I hope you Red94 guys in Houston are okay.
@  Losthief : (26 August 2017 - 12:06 AM) Hope everyone stays safe and dry!
@  slick shoes : (23 August 2017 - 12:30 PM) Mostly I'm glad that none of them moved to a West team.
@  redfaithful : (23 August 2017 - 11:39 AM) Basketball reasons aside, it would have been very difficult for the Celtics to sign IT next summer with their cap situation, while Kyrie has 2 years left

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Hakeem vs. Harden


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#1 Red94

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 01:54 AM

New post: Hakeem vs. Harden
By: Rahat Huq

https://twitter.com/RedNinetyFour/status/844253902770003968

 

I've had seven hours to reflect on this blasphemy, and I'm realizing I don't regret making this statement.  Yes, I'm well aware of the challenges in making cross-positional, cross-generational comparisons.  (Sheesh, some of you have to take all of the fun out of life).  And yes, I'm aware of Hakeem's postseason brilliance.  (As one reader noted, I'm not sure what relevance those circumstances have to my claim - we're arguing abilities not historical body of work.)  But what James Harden is doing right now, in carrying an all-time offense, is at the very least on par with anything Olajuwon produced on that end.

 

Where Olajuwon, of course, set himself apart was the defensive end.  In fact, Olajuwon's age 27 season (where Harden currently is), in 1989-1990, was the most prolific of his career on the boards and at the rim as he averaged a whopping 14 rebounds and 4.6 blocks per game.  Imagine what those numbers would look like at the pace of today's game.  In Olajuwon's MVP season, 1993-1994, he averaged 27.3 points (the second highest mark of his career), 11.9 rebounds, and 3.7 blocks per game.  Harden is averaging 29.4 points, 11.2 assists, and 8.1 rebounds.  The Rockets will probably finish close to the 58-24 mark they posted in 1993-1994.  I'm not going to break down the advanced metrics because its almost 9:00 P.M. and I don't have the mental energy for that, and more importantly, those sorts of factors hold no weight in hypothetical banter of this sort.  For now, it will take a good argument to convince me against my claim.


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#2 thejohnnygold

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 02:44 PM

I won't try to convince you otherwise.  That does not mean I agree.

 

I found myself thinking recently that Harden has cemented himself as the second best Rocket of all-time (with the potential to surpass Olajuwon depending on how things go).  Now, even if I omit defense I still cannot give Harden the #1 spot...yet.

 

As much as James Harden has accomplished, he has not proven to be flat out unstoppable.  The greatest have all done this.  This is the problem with relying on the referees for 1/3 of your offense.  Ignoring last year's aberration, let's look at our WC Finals run.

 

In 8 losses, Harden averaged 8.75 FTA's/game.  In 9 wins, he averaged 12 FTA's/game.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think those measly 3 points made the difference (the scores show they did not).  I think, overall, they matter psychologically more so than anything else.

 

Getting back to my point of being unstoppable.  This is something that gets measured in the post-season.  We all know the deal.  The game changes.  Defense gets ratcheted up.  Coaches actually coach.  What then?  I think James has a great chance to change that this year and, if he can, it will be incredibly impressive as he will have to do it against some elite players and teams.

 

The odds are we will have to go through both San Antonio and Golden State.  Before that, we get to warm up against either OKC or Memphis.  That means Harden will be going heads up against the likes of Tony Allen/Mike Conley, Westbrook/Roberson, Leonard/Green, and Klay/Draymond.  Just typing that was daunting.

 

The only good news is GS and SA will be coming off slug-fests of their own (unless Portland somehow manages to sneak past Denver for the final spot).  I'm stoked about the GS/Denver first round match-up.

 

If James can carry us through that gauntlet and, at least, put on a good showing in the Finals (presumably against the Cavs) then I may have to move him up the list.

 

Also, defense matters.  :P


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#3 thejohnnygold

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 05:02 PM

I think this is relevant to the discussion and, conveniently, came out today.

 

 

It's a great breakdown of what we do on offense.

 

I posted it in here because it brings up something I did not consider earlier: coaching.

 

Hakeem, for the most part, ran Iso's in the post.  That was the system.  Give the man some space and watch him work.

 

Harden, under McHale, was in a similar situation.  Despite McHale's constant talk about the ball "getting sticky", he never seemed to do much to coerce the ball out of James' hands.  While James was still amazing under those circumstances it also showcased his faults and limitations.

 

Looking back at Hakeem, it was this very thing which showcased his greatness.  In spite of everything an opposing team could throw at him, and with little help from the sidelines, the man just kept on scoring.  

 

 

It is worth watching every second of this video.  It shows it all.  Hakeem's quickness was a great asset and he abused everyone with it.  Listen with the sound on and take note of the reactions from not just the crowds, but the announcers who watch basketball all the time.  Even they are in awe.

 

This next video is pretty awesome because you can see to what degree teams went to try and stop Olajuwon...and failed.  This is the '95 WC Finals against the Spurs.  Hakeem is primarily defended by Dennis Rodman (considered one of the greatest defenders of all time) and then double and triple teamed constantly.

 

These were Hakeem's averages in that series (we won 4-2):

 

QlDtTMn.jpg

 

Freakin' amazing.

 

My apologies...I will never understand why some videos won't embed here, but click this link to watch Rodman vs. Hakeem.

 

One last note...these videos also show that Hakeem would likely have averaged a triple-double if hockey assists counted.  Whatever that is worth...


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