Jump to content


Toggle shoutbox Shoutbox Open the Shoutbox in a popup

@  thejohnnygold : (23 April 2017 - 10:20 PM) "Pheeeeew!" --(Every Rockets fan today)
@  rocketrick : (20 April 2017 - 04:28 PM) Incredible Atmosphere at Toyota Center last night! Rockets are for Real people.....
@  thejohnnygold : (17 April 2017 - 12:47 PM) The defense was there too. All in all, a good win.
@  Mario Peña : (17 April 2017 - 04:08 AM) I like that effort on the boards tonight and second chance points tonight. I hope they can finish OKC in 5 or less.
@  DenverRocket : (05 April 2017 - 07:15 PM) Give me a shout and if I'm around, I'll be happy to honor my commitment!
@  slick shoes : (05 April 2017 - 06:34 PM) I'll be in Denver Memorial Day weekend and Labor Day weekend ;)
@  DenverRocket : (05 April 2017 - 04:52 PM) Oh and congrats to @SlickShoes on winning the bracket challenge handily :) If I ever meet you, I'll buy you a beer!
@  DenverRocket : (04 April 2017 - 06:23 PM) Worth a read, Who's The Best Bargain in the NBA: http://www.espn.com/...nd-best-bargain
@  thejohnnygold : (31 March 2017 - 04:19 PM) Probably...mine's toast.
@  slick shoes : (31 March 2017 - 02:12 PM) Is it safe to assume I have taken the bracket challenge??
@  thejohnnygold : (15 March 2017 - 12:58 PM) I'm in!
@  DenverRocket : (15 March 2017 - 02:12 AM) You can join my not knowing anything club! :-)
@  slick shoes : (15 March 2017 - 01:34 AM) I filled one out. I don't know anything about college ball so everything was gut feel. wish me luck!
@  DenverRocket : (15 March 2017 - 12:06 AM) If anyone is interested in joining a Red94 bracket challenge, I've set one up here: http://games.espn.co...groupID=1517203
@  slick shoes : (14 March 2017 - 02:48 PM) As much fun as it is to watch the Warriors lose, I'm gonna need them to go ahead and take 1st place again so that we can potentially avoid them until the WCF.
@  SadLakerFan : (13 March 2017 - 02:24 PM) My Lakers coming into town. Hope Bev can cover our SG of the future David Nwaba. He's lighting it up.
@  thejohnnygold : (08 March 2017 - 11:24 PM) I'm not really finding much info on it. We'll see if it persists or was just one of those things that happens in competition sometimes.
@  slick shoes : (07 March 2017 - 06:00 PM) Interesting to see that Dwight is having some of the same issues in Atlanta that he had here.
@  thejohnnygold : (27 February 2017 - 05:43 AM) I don't think this is all or nothing. We've still got some defensive issues to deal with, but this team can give anyone a run for their money.
@  slick shoes : (26 February 2017 - 11:38 PM) i just hope to legitimately compete for the title. winning is only a bonus.

Photo

Hakeem vs. Harden


  • Please log in to reply
2 replies to this topic

#1 Red94

Red94

    Senior Member

  • Administrators
  • 1,547 posts

Posted 22 March 2017 - 01:54 AM

New post: Hakeem vs. Harden
By: Rahat Huq

https://twitter.com/RedNinetyFour/status/844253902770003968

 

I've had seven hours to reflect on this blasphemy, and I'm realizing I don't regret making this statement.  Yes, I'm well aware of the challenges in making cross-positional, cross-generational comparisons.  (Sheesh, some of you have to take all of the fun out of life).  And yes, I'm aware of Hakeem's postseason brilliance.  (As one reader noted, I'm not sure what relevance those circumstances have to my claim - we're arguing abilities not historical body of work.)  But what James Harden is doing right now, in carrying an all-time offense, is at the very least on par with anything Olajuwon produced on that end.

 

Where Olajuwon, of course, set himself apart was the defensive end.  In fact, Olajuwon's age 27 season (where Harden currently is), in 1989-1990, was the most prolific of his career on the boards and at the rim as he averaged a whopping 14 rebounds and 4.6 blocks per game.  Imagine what those numbers would look like at the pace of today's game.  In Olajuwon's MVP season, 1993-1994, he averaged 27.3 points (the second highest mark of his career), 11.9 rebounds, and 3.7 blocks per game.  Harden is averaging 29.4 points, 11.2 assists, and 8.1 rebounds.  The Rockets will probably finish close to the 58-24 mark they posted in 1993-1994.  I'm not going to break down the advanced metrics because its almost 9:00 P.M. and I don't have the mental energy for that, and more importantly, those sorts of factors hold no weight in hypothetical banter of this sort.  For now, it will take a good argument to convince me against my claim.


  • 0

#2 thejohnnygold

thejohnnygold

    Veteran

  • Moderators
  • 4,810 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 22 March 2017 - 02:44 PM

I won't try to convince you otherwise.  That does not mean I agree.

 

I found myself thinking recently that Harden has cemented himself as the second best Rocket of all-time (with the potential to surpass Olajuwon depending on how things go).  Now, even if I omit defense I still cannot give Harden the #1 spot...yet.

 

As much as James Harden has accomplished, he has not proven to be flat out unstoppable.  The greatest have all done this.  This is the problem with relying on the referees for 1/3 of your offense.  Ignoring last year's aberration, let's look at our WC Finals run.

 

In 8 losses, Harden averaged 8.75 FTA's/game.  In 9 wins, he averaged 12 FTA's/game.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think those measly 3 points made the difference (the scores show they did not).  I think, overall, they matter psychologically more so than anything else.

 

Getting back to my point of being unstoppable.  This is something that gets measured in the post-season.  We all know the deal.  The game changes.  Defense gets ratcheted up.  Coaches actually coach.  What then?  I think James has a great chance to change that this year and, if he can, it will be incredibly impressive as he will have to do it against some elite players and teams.

 

The odds are we will have to go through both San Antonio and Golden State.  Before that, we get to warm up against either OKC or Memphis.  That means Harden will be going heads up against the likes of Tony Allen/Mike Conley, Westbrook/Roberson, Leonard/Green, and Klay/Draymond.  Just typing that was daunting.

 

The only good news is GS and SA will be coming off slug-fests of their own (unless Portland somehow manages to sneak past Denver for the final spot).  I'm stoked about the GS/Denver first round match-up.

 

If James can carry us through that gauntlet and, at least, put on a good showing in the Finals (presumably against the Cavs) then I may have to move him up the list.

 

Also, defense matters.  :P


  • 0

#3 thejohnnygold

thejohnnygold

    Veteran

  • Moderators
  • 4,810 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 22 March 2017 - 05:02 PM

I think this is relevant to the discussion and, conveniently, came out today.

 

 

It's a great breakdown of what we do on offense.

 

I posted it in here because it brings up something I did not consider earlier: coaching.

 

Hakeem, for the most part, ran Iso's in the post.  That was the system.  Give the man some space and watch him work.

 

Harden, under McHale, was in a similar situation.  Despite McHale's constant talk about the ball "getting sticky", he never seemed to do much to coerce the ball out of James' hands.  While James was still amazing under those circumstances it also showcased his faults and limitations.

 

Looking back at Hakeem, it was this very thing which showcased his greatness.  In spite of everything an opposing team could throw at him, and with little help from the sidelines, the man just kept on scoring.  

 

 

It is worth watching every second of this video.  It shows it all.  Hakeem's quickness was a great asset and he abused everyone with it.  Listen with the sound on and take note of the reactions from not just the crowds, but the announcers who watch basketball all the time.  Even they are in awe.

 

This next video is pretty awesome because you can see to what degree teams went to try and stop Olajuwon...and failed.  This is the '95 WC Finals against the Spurs.  Hakeem is primarily defended by Dennis Rodman (considered one of the greatest defenders of all time) and then double and triple teamed constantly.

 

These were Hakeem's averages in that series (we won 4-2):

 

QlDtTMn.jpg

 

Freakin' amazing.

 

My apologies...I will never understand why some videos won't embed here, but click this link to watch Rodman vs. Hakeem.

 

One last note...these videos also show that Hakeem would likely have averaged a triple-double if hockey assists counted.  Whatever that is worth...


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users