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@  slick shoes : (12 December 2017 - 01:21 PM) Seems like we had enough trouble sending him anywhere this past summer lol
@  redfaithful : (12 December 2017 - 01:03 PM) According to the article send Anderson somewhere without taking money back
@  slick shoes : (11 December 2017 - 09:58 PM) What do we have to give up to make it work financially though?
@  redfaithful : (11 December 2017 - 05:22 PM) Wow, this: https://www.theringe...ets-free-agency
@  DenverRocket : (10 December 2017 - 05:36 PM) Yep, did you see that 4th quarter/stretch small ball line-up that stifled the Blazers and allowed Harden and CP3 to do their thing? Awesome defense!!
@  thejohnnygold : (09 December 2017 - 03:21 AM) It makes me so happy :)
@  DenverRocket : (07 December 2017 - 09:39 PM) Don't whisper too loud, but All Of A Sudden, The Rockets Are Dominant On Defense, Too
@  slick shoes : (28 November 2017 - 07:33 PM) Looks like JB will get another swing at interim head coach. Hope things fare better for him there than here.....
@  slick shoes : (27 November 2017 - 09:39 PM) Wow! What is going on in Memphis?!
@  thejohnnygold : (23 November 2017 - 05:56 PM) Also, Chris Paul is a wizard
@  DenverRocket : (23 November 2017 - 05:15 PM) Great defense, great depth. Loving it.
@  redfaithful : (23 November 2017 - 09:19 AM) No Anderson, no Gordon, no problem demolishing the Nuggets... this team is good
@  thejohnnygold : (13 November 2017 - 11:35 PM) That's good news for us and for you!
@  slick shoes : (13 November 2017 - 08:09 PM) CP3 is rumored to be back Thursday...
@  redfaithful : (06 November 2017 - 09:45 AM) Seems that Harden's FG% are no longer something to worry about
@  thejohnnygold : (30 October 2017 - 08:43 PM) That was definitely one of the most up and down games ever.
@  DenverRocket : (30 October 2017 - 03:48 PM) Is anyone even interested in basketball right now? That Astros game last night almost killed me! Exhausted! ;-)
@  thejohnnygold : (24 October 2017 - 07:47 PM) woo-hoo! We should try and get Troy Daniels while we're at it.
@  slick shoes : (24 October 2017 - 05:36 PM) We are bringing back the Canaan-ball!
@  rocketrick : (23 October 2017 - 03:34 PM) Rockets 3-0. Golden State 1-2.

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The Never-Ending Trade Talk Thread


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#1 thejohnnygold

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 06:54 PM

69a2f6974c20eae43f17a225c731f8be.jpg

 

Here it is.  As always, let's try to keep things reasonable and maybe even consider that the other teams in the NBA aren't going to take $.10 on the dollar in every single trade.

 

ESPN TRADE MACHINE


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#2 Jatman20

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 01:07 AM

@johnnygold. Moving Brewer may take giving up our 17/18 first round pick. Like the time the Rockets pleaded for
the Lakers to take Lin and his poison pill contract. I believe the rule still stands that you can't trade first round picks
2 consecutive years (the Knicks saving them from themselves rule for McGrady, Bargnani and others). Last summer
the Rockets gave up their first round pick to the Nuggets. I'm not sure about pennies on the dollars....if not bettering
the team immediately, there is the taking on an expiring contract for cap space this summer. I want the Rockets to
go after Ibaka this summer (as one of their targets). Ibaka would fit in perfect with the D'Antoni system of big setting
picks, rolling to rim, popping, shooting three's, blocks, rebounds. Instead of the rotation of Nene/Capela/Ryno; it
could be Capela/Ryno/Ibaka. Nene becoming a FA this upcoming summer.

Edited by Jatman20, 18 November 2016 - 01:15 AM.

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#3 Jatman20

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 01:33 AM

Capela is starting to get more blocks now (11/17/16)....but another shot blocker would help the Rockets get over the top.
Nene is good defensively; but his defense tends to be below the rim nowadays in the form of charges. He can't always move his
feet fast enough to get in position. I would prefer WCS over Nerlens Noel. I question why reports were leaked and then stymied
by the Kings right away. Because they claim they want to keep him publicly; doesn't necessarily mean they are not fielding
offers. Joeger may value KJ as a diamond in the rough and see Ennis as a player he can coach up in PnR and other facets
of basketball. Brewer may be that veteran mentor on and off the court that can help the Kings organization. Brewer could
provide a fast breaking aspect that they might treasure with Affalo, Collison, McLemore as the Kings have been near the top in pace
last year and in the early part of this season.....one teams trash may be another teams treasure. Ennis can't be traded until after Nov 22nd due to earlier trade involving Tyler. Adding a future first and a second may get the job going.
Referring to a WCS/Rudy Gay trade for Brewer/KJ/Ennis. Rent Gay short term (decreasing stress on Harden to
carry team while WCS brings a pick setting, rim protector, rebounder run the court demon long term. Kings are
using Willie Cayley-Stein incorrectly at the moment.

Edited by Jatman20, 18 November 2016 - 01:43 AM.

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#4 Jatman20

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 01:46 AM

Willie Cauley-Stein ......auto correct got me
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#5 thejohnnygold

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 06:29 PM

You are entitled to your opinion.  I do not share it.  The Kings aren't giving up 2 studs for 2 duds and a question mark (KJ) plus 1 or 2 low end draft picks.  You think Boston wouldn't stick their nose in there if SAC was dangling that package?  They could throw a combo of Crowder, a young guard, A guy like Olynyk, and Amir Johnson's expiring deal (to make numbers work) plus they have way better picks to offer.

 

Suddenly, Boston is rolling out Thomas, Bradley, Gay, Horford, and Cauley-Stein (the defensive big they have been seeking for some time now).  That's a very good, very balanced line-up.

 

On the flip side, Sacramento could come out with Marcus Smart, Jae Crowder, Amir Johnson's expiring deal, and a solid first round pick.  They now roll out Darren Collison, Marcus Smart, Matt Barnes/Casspi, Crowder (who makes for a great stretch 4), and Cousins.  That's 2 creators, good supporting shooters, and enough defense to compete even when the shots aren't falling.  Plus, they get a draft pick and cap space for next Summer.

 

About the only reason not to do this deal is because Jaylen Brown might be ready sooner than later; however, Gay can play some small ball PF with Horford at C which should leave plenty of minutes for everyone.


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#6 Jatman20

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 08:17 PM

You don't know Danny Ainge. He is the shrewdest GM in the business. Too many times I see deals go on and I scratch my
head and say....the Rockets could have topped that! None come to mind; but if I spend a little time I could probably think of
one. Maybe the Batum deal Portland got. Rockets (or i) could/would throw in another second rounder and Zhou Qi (Kings like collecting centers-this one they don't have to pay right now). The Rockets
could be in contention mode right now while the Kings are not. They have time for developing KJ and Ennis. I would even
throw in the rights to Sergio Llull.

Ty Lawson (non-guaranteed contract $1.3 mil) 28.1 mins......5.4 Pts.....2.9 Rbs.......5 Ast.......32% FG.......33% 3P.......61% FT...
Tyler Ennis ($1.7 mil).....................................9.4 mins.....3.3 Pts ... 0.9 Rbs......1.5 Ast....43% FG.......36% 3P...50% FT (1/2) 72% career FT shooter. Kings could cut Ty tomorrow.

Philly and Kings have been hoarding all the centers for the purpose of trading one or more. Kings will still have Cousins,
Skai Labissiere, Koufos, Papagiannis.

WCS is getting about 13 mins...5 Pts...2 Rbs....Kings need to make time for the other young centers. Gay has already told them
he is opting out. All of this will be hypothetical of course.....with any trade.

Edited by Jatman20, 18 November 2016 - 08:22 PM.

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#7 Jatman20

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 08:54 PM

I would be shocked if Danny Ainge gave up Crowder. Maybe Tyler Zeller, Jebebko, Rozier. Rosier has better numbers than
Ennis. Boston doesn't want to break up their team for the possible rental of Rudy Gay. Too much of a chance on WCS with his
numbers for a Boston team as currently constructed. Houston is in more of a position to rent Rudy and give WCS a chance
in a wide open scheme. Willie Cauley-Stein would need to be part of the deal. I don't Houston giving up draft picks
for just a Rudy Gay rental. Boston doesn't either.

Edited by Jatman20, 18 November 2016 - 08:56 PM.

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#8 thejohnnygold

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 09:19 PM

Sergio Llull  :lol:

 

You are correct---I do not know Danny Ainge...as in I have never met him.  To imply that I haven't been paying attention to what he has been doing since he took over in Boston is a bit hasty.  I don't feel compelled to prove otherwise--you can think what you want.

 

It's cool.  I disagree with your estimation of player values.  I think it's great that you would acquire Tyler Ennis just so you could cut Ty Lawson.

 

I agree that Crowder is tough to give up.  He is one of the elite 3&D players in the league.  You have to give up something to get something and Ainge just might do it.  He is still looking to upgrade that team and he has to consider that there is a small window.  He's got this season and next with Bradley and Thomas under contract and then those guys are getting paid.  He still wants an elite defensive center.  Something's got to give.  He may have to trade a player or two that he would like to keep in order to upgrade.

 

I have no doubt they love Crowder in Boston, but Ainge only has so much to work with.  They aren't trading Thomas nor Horford.  There isn't exactly a huge upgrade to be found at SG so Bradley should be safe.  SF and C are the places they can improve and Crowder/Smart are the best trade chips they have.  Any team that asks for less is selling themselves short.

 

As far as Houston goes, I really don't see us making a move.  The talk in Houston is all about how great the chemistry is right now.  The only thing we need to do is get D-Mo signed. (and play some freakin' defense  ;) )


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#9 Jatman20

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 09:54 PM

Yes we disagree, Ainge gives up talented players for only stars. Not rental players (non-stars) or guys with potential such as WCS.
He would give up Crowder for A Davis or Cousins or Durant or CP3 or Blake..but not Rudy rental. Yes I'm not classifying R Gay
as a star. A better than average player; but not a star. Boston wants Crowder to back up Rudy Gay as does Houston wants
Ariza to back up Rudy Gay. Houston should deal future picks and Brewer to get it done!! Lawson is like the only non-guaranteed
contract available to make room and he is not exactly tearing up the league with that shooting percentage and at 5'11"
is a huge liability defensively.

Houston would have a 10 guy rotation that could run with any team. Harden/Bev/Gordon in the PG/SG positions........................
Rudy/Ariza/Dekker in the SG/SF positions.....and Capela/Nene/Ryno/Willie C-S in the Center/PF positions. Harrell & Bobby Brown
are still there in case of Rockets injuries. Chinanu to me is a Mark Bryant type.....expendable.

Willie's production would increase eventually to about: 21 mins...11 points.....8 rebounds......1.4 blocks a game or more. Willie fits
in perfect for the Rockets needs....and Gay would help lessen the load for Harden. I would like the chances vs any team at that point. I will keep looking for a better deal. Noel at his weight may not cut it.

Edited by Jatman20, 18 November 2016 - 09:58 PM.

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#10 Jatman20

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 10:27 PM

The Rockets versatility would be noted: Gordon/Beverley/Harden playing either PG or SG, Ariza playing SG/SF/some PF,
Dekker playing SF/some PF, Harrell/Nene/Ryno playing PF and center. Capela and WCS playing center.
D-Mo is like Nene in the sense that he plays defense below the rim. The Spurs recognized that fact and attacked the rim in the
second meeting and had no fear attacking the basket. The Spurs, Cavs and Golden State Warriors have the same defensive
philosophy of running the 3-point shooters off the 3 point line where there is a shot blocker at the rim.....forcing the worst shot
in basketball, the mid-range shot. Well now the Warriors lost Bogut and the Cavs lost Mozgov so they are like the Rockets in
the sense that they lack an above the rim defender. I know D-Mo is a fan favorite, but people shouldn't hold their breath on him.
He is more apt to playing for another team on a one year contract than Houston (via trade). Something about human nature
to feel jaded by the team you are with, and have a sense of not being appreciated......when all teams felt the same way.
Houston beat writer noted after 10 games the Rockets were dead last in DRtg for the first 6 games and were 8th in DRtg
in games 6-10 (4 games). I said several times the Rockets were up there in contested shots from game one. In time NBA shooters come back down to earth and start missing shots. Every year 3-point shooters have an outrageous % during the first 2 weeks of the season.....like 80% from three. Everyone knows that comes down to about 35% on the average. DRtg is always worse on the road than at home...as is ORtg road vs home. The Rockets have played many roads games.

Edited by Jatman20, 18 November 2016 - 10:35 PM.

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#11 thejohnnygold

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 01:32 AM

I am operating under the assumption that Gay would be re-signing with Boston and Ainge would have some sort of handshake agreement on that.  Of course he's not giving up that much for a rental.  Rudy Gay may not get "star" credit, but he puts up "star" numbers and can do "star" things.

 

There is a difference between being one of the best at your position and the NBA marketing you to make money.  Ask Avery Bradley, Khris Middleton, Mike Conley, JJ Redick, Paul Millsap, et al.


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#12 Jatman20

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 04:16 PM

True johnnygold: Ennis was a first round pick (18th in 2014) while WC-S was a first round pick (8th in 2015); one gets 9 mins
and 3 points while the other gets 5 points in 13 mins.....so they kind of cancel each other out. So it may come down to how
much one values Rudy Gay and how one sees KJ. Heavy rumors are Rudy has indicated he wants to play for Miami or Lakers
next season. So the team that goes after Rudy better come to terms with that. As the Kings get closer to the trading deadline,
the deals will become poorer. It would be a win-win situation for the Rockets in my opinion. If he stays then that means it worked
out with the Rockets team....a D'Antoni scheme that tends to make good players money. If he walks, then $14 mil (player option)
is free'd up going into the summer free agency. Now I wouldn't give a first for "just" Rudy Gay and I wouldn't give a first for "just"
Willie Cauley-Stein...but I would use a first for a combo deal for both.

So I may be a homer that is over-valuing Rockets players and under-valuing Rudy and WCS. You may be over-valuing Rudy/WCS
and under-valuing KJ/Ennis (potential) & Brewer veteran presence. The Rockets have Ariza, Nene, Gordon, Ryno for mentoring
the young guys. Kings have Barnes....Cousins may choke him out before taking his advice. Affalo is probably too quite. Brewer
might be exactly what Cousins/Kings need to help Cousins mature. I was watching the Kings vs Clips last night. Cousins was
going crazy every play. Affalo had to separate Cousins from the refs and other players on one occasion. Affalo needs help if they
are going to make the Cousins experiment work. And yes, WCS is being used all wrong by the Kings. They had a heavy dose
of Cousins post ups with WCS on the court. WCS looked like he didn't fit in. He is trying to stay out of the way while wanting
to contribute. With the Rockets his role would be better defined....with space. Every time he rolled to the basket after setting a
pick, none of the offensive players would hit him with a pass. Every time I told myself Harden would have lobbed it perfectly
to him or slid a pass with his momentum going to the rim. WCS could be as productive with the Rockets as Capela is at the moment.

Anyway nice talk johnnygold. Playing GM here is pure speculation without the other team reps present. All we can do is
note what we would put on the table. What the team holding the other players would agree on is a guess. For WCS/Rudy Gay
I would offer Brewer/KJ/Ennis (or Bobby Brown) w/ only one first round pick, and up to two second round picks. Chinanu,
and the rights to Zhou QI and/or Llull are in play as well. Until I hear another rumor....this one is the best I know of. I don't
think Nerlens Noel works for the Rockets. And I don't believe Klay Thompson rumors of being unhappy....not that the Rockets
want him. A Bogut and/or Harrison Barnes may be in play later this year if they keep stinking up the place. Keep that in mind
with every contender......they are holding their assists like Crowder or Ariza for big star dealing. Because the Rockets big man
cupboard is a little bare.....the Rockets may take more chance.....right now. It would secure the center position for years
to come with Capela/WCS.......on the cheap.  It's my belief the deal for Rudy Gay is on the table (Rudy x KJ/Brewer).
Kings are holding out for Ariza instead of Brewer. Time is not on the Kings side.


Edited by thejohnnygold, 19 November 2016 - 05:12 PM.

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#13 thejohnnygold

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 05:09 PM

Slick Shoes noted that the Rockets may be playing Brewer to try and show that he still has some value.  I agree with him.  As Rockets fans, we have seen Brewer's value diminish greatly since he arrived--and it was limited when he got here.  He had already lost a step and it appears he has lost another one.

 

I watched last night's LAC-SAC game as well.  Rudy looked awful.  The Clips have made a lot of guys look bad this year so I'm not worried about that.  He's been very good this year overall.  Sac's coach came out after the game and announced the Kings will be going small a lot more moving forward.  That should mean more minutes at PF for Gay.

 

I really think Cousins gets moved (probably this Summer).  His value is severely capped by two things: his reputation and the fact that he can't drag a team to the playoffs.  He is a stat monster, but has never been on a team with a winning record.  Even factoring in the "Sacramento" factor, that is a very big concern.

 

It seems Sacramento is angling hard for an upgrade at PG in any trade for Gay.  (per the rumor mill)  They are such a mess and should really consider scrapping it all.  The cumulative haul from trading Cousins, Gay, and Collison should net them some quality draft picks/prospects plus secure quality lottery picks of their own for the next couple years.  They clearly can't compete with the elite teams in the West right now.

 

From what I can tell, Gay is opting out to bump his salary up as much as to "get out of Sacramento".  Can't blame him.  He should easily fetch $20M+ per year.  No reason to opt-in to $14M on a perennial loser just to get a year older and risk injury.  Divac has come out and said the Kings are willing to let him walk next Summer--that being competitive this year is more important.  Considering their record, that might have all just been lip service.


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#14 Jatman20

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 07:09 PM

True, if you watched the Sac-Clips game you probably heard Hubie Brown say that Joeger mentioned to
him that Lawson doesn't fit their scheme. I'm sorry for Lawson, but I don't know which players fit their scheme?
It's a hot mess. I saw WCS paired with Cousins and his heavy dosage of post ups. I saw Lawson paired with
Collison. I was wondering where Affalo was for a good stretch of the game. Divac loves Center play.....so I
think he keeps Cousins since he won't get equal or greater value for him. When I goggled Rudy Gay trade
rumors. I saw a Terry Rozier for WCS (Bos/Sac). Rudy Gay to the Thunder or Rockets. The Rockets/Sac
trade rumor consisted of Gay x Ariza/Brewer. Kings have to move some players to give minutes to others.
Removing WCS would remove Cousins biggest threat....even though WCS averages 13 mins to Skal L's 15
minutes a game. It should be interesting; every year I hear people say the Rockets are going to sit still...and
every year Morey does a move or two. If it's true that Leslie Alexander is pulling more of the trigger, then
I expect a greater chance of a risky move being made......like signing injury prone guys to guaranteed 4-yr deals.

Edited by Jatman20, 19 November 2016 - 07:13 PM.

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#15 Jatman20

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 08:06 PM

As for Brewer, I felt that since last year. 1) Show case Brewer to build up his trade value (he doesn't help matters).
2) Morey continues to try to justify the signing of Brewer to his current contract (we can see thru the BS). Red94 is
the only Houston sports forum or any sports forum that I have seen that treat D12 and Brewer kindly. The other sites
crucify both individuals endlessly.
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#16 thejohnnygold

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 03:56 PM

Thinking about the Blazers going after Noel...not sure they can do it.  They aren't giving up Lillard/McCollum.  Allen Crabbe would get the ball rolling, but he can't be traded until next Summer.  Maybe they give up some draft picks plus Aminu?  Maybe...

 

Odds are they sit tight and wait for Ezeli to return, but his recent setback with his knee might force their hand.


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#17 Jatman20

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 12:39 AM

I don't know. I questioned the Evan Turner signing w/Crabbe. It didn't make sense to me. I heard pundits repeat
the same since. Some of the pundits theories is that they were signing Turner as insurance/leverage w/Crabbe;
then signed Crabbe as an asset collection for future trade(s).
Thunder: are looking for another wing (Oladipo of bench)...Maybe drive up cost for Rudy Gay......................................
Warriors: are looking for a shot blocking rim protector/screen setter from center position...............................................
Clips: needed a bench and got it with cap increase..........................................................................................................
Spurs: rumored interested in Rudy Gay..probably to drive up cost; like Houston drove up cost for Rondo w/Mavs.........
Blazers: need a center shot blocking rim protector; another shooting wing.......................................................................
Utah: complete team that just needs to get healthy...........................................................................................................
Grizz: need outside shooting (they can't count on Gasol to keep making them)...............................................................
Houston: shot blocking rim protector/screen setter; Outside shooting wing w/some defense, allowing Ariza to float.......
***i would love Aminu if they would take back Brewer/KJ. I feel the Blazers struggles lately coincide with his injury.
Rockets/Cavs/Warriors should all feel a need for addition rim protector.

Edited by Jatman20, 22 November 2016 - 12:44 AM.

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#18 Jatman20

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 05:14 AM

Read Noel is set to come back to team soon. After looking at his number and the numbers for Hollis T.
I like this trade. Rockets adding sweetener in the form of pick(s). Free up Ariza to cover opposing teams
best wing while Hollis and Dekker can platoon SF on those days.


http://www.espn.com/...tradeId=zgxl8za

Edited by Jatman20, 23 November 2016 - 05:19 AM.

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#19 thejohnnygold

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 03:41 PM

Read Noel is set to come back to team soon. After looking at his number and the numbers for Hollis T.
I like this trade. Rockets adding sweetener in the form of pick(s). Free up Ariza to cover opposing teams
best wing while Hollis and Dekker can platoon SF on those days.


http://www.espn.com/...tradeId=zgxl8za

 

While I would love the incoming part of that deal I just cannot take any trade for a stud player seriously when it features Brewer--even with picks.  Once he gets down to 1 year left on his deal then, yes, he can be dealt.  Until then, I am pretty sure we are stuck with him...or we wind up taking another team's trash and putting them in his place.

 

Trust me.  Noel has other suitors and they are going to make better offers.

 

Also, I'm not sure about whether or not we get Noel's Bird Rights if we trade for him this year... :unsure:  That is very important.  What is also important is that Capela is coming on strong after a shaky start to the season.  He's looking good on both ends of the floor and still has room to get better in every way.

 

Really, all we need to do is put KJ on the floor instead of Brewer and maybe try and find an upgrade to the back up PG spot.  Oh, and sign D-Mo  :D


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#20 Jatman20

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 08:57 PM

I'm fine with getting to the playoffs and then fill in the holes in the offseason. The Rockets as currently constructed
will not beat the elite teams as is. Capela can't provide above the rim protection for 48 minutes...D-Mo doesn't block
shots. True elite teams have a "POOL" of wing players that can play multiple positions. So if the goal is go to the finals.
It needs to be addressed via trade. D-Mo is not the answer.

Cavs:...LeBron/Shumpert/JR Smith/R Jefferson/Kyrie/Frye.....they won the championship & still brought in Dunleavy.......(7)....
Clips:...CP3/Redick/J Crawford//Felton/Rivers/Westley Johnson/Pierce/Luc aMoute............................................................(8)....
Spurs:..Mills/Parker/Ginobili/J Simmons/Danny Green/Kawhi Leonard/Kyle Anderson.........................................................(7)....
Warriors:..Klay/Durant/Iggy/Draymond Green/Curry/Livingston.....Curry & Durant (all world) & Klay/Green (all star level)....(6)..
...........*Kyrie & LeBron are all world as well......but they knew they needed more.

Rockets:..Harden/Gordon/Ariza/Dekker/Beverley(5)...Rockets can't compete with the Truly elite teams. Our coaches don't
trust KJ and I don't trust Brewer come playoff time. Every contending team is going to offer trash and picks. Nobody wants
to give up their core rotational players. Noel will be a restricted FA.

Edited by Jatman20, 23 November 2016 - 08:59 PM.

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