Here it is. As always, let's try to keep things reasonable and maybe even consider that the other teams in the NBA aren't going to take $.10 on the dollar in every single trade.
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Posted 18 November 2016 - 01:07 AM
Edited by Jatman20, 18 November 2016 - 01:15 AM.
Posted 18 November 2016 - 01:33 AM
Edited by Jatman20, 18 November 2016 - 01:43 AM.
Posted 18 November 2016 - 06:29 PM
You are entitled to your opinion. I do not share it. The Kings aren't giving up 2 studs for 2 duds and a question mark (KJ) plus 1 or 2 low end draft picks. You think Boston wouldn't stick their nose in there if SAC was dangling that package? They could throw a combo of Crowder, a young guard, A guy like Olynyk, and Amir Johnson's expiring deal (to make numbers work) plus they have way better picks to offer.
Suddenly, Boston is rolling out Thomas, Bradley, Gay, Horford, and Cauley-Stein (the defensive big they have been seeking for some time now). That's a very good, very balanced line-up.
On the flip side, Sacramento could come out with Marcus Smart, Jae Crowder, Amir Johnson's expiring deal, and a solid first round pick. They now roll out Darren Collison, Marcus Smart, Matt Barnes/Casspi, Crowder (who makes for a great stretch 4), and Cousins. That's 2 creators, good supporting shooters, and enough defense to compete even when the shots aren't falling. Plus, they get a draft pick and cap space for next Summer.
About the only reason not to do this deal is because Jaylen Brown might be ready sooner than later; however, Gay can play some small ball PF with Horford at C which should leave plenty of minutes for everyone.
Posted 18 November 2016 - 08:17 PM
Edited by Jatman20, 18 November 2016 - 08:22 PM.
Posted 18 November 2016 - 08:54 PM
Edited by Jatman20, 18 November 2016 - 08:56 PM.
Posted 18 November 2016 - 09:19 PM
You are correct---I do not know Danny Ainge...as in I have never met him. To imply that I haven't been paying attention to what he has been doing since he took over in Boston is a bit hasty. I don't feel compelled to prove otherwise--you can think what you want.
It's cool. I disagree with your estimation of player values. I think it's great that you would acquire Tyler Ennis just so you could cut Ty Lawson.
I agree that Crowder is tough to give up. He is one of the elite 3&D players in the league. You have to give up something to get something and Ainge just might do it. He is still looking to upgrade that team and he has to consider that there is a small window. He's got this season and next with Bradley and Thomas under contract and then those guys are getting paid. He still wants an elite defensive center. Something's got to give. He may have to trade a player or two that he would like to keep in order to upgrade.
I have no doubt they love Crowder in Boston, but Ainge only has so much to work with. They aren't trading Thomas nor Horford. There isn't exactly a huge upgrade to be found at SG so Bradley should be safe. SF and C are the places they can improve and Crowder/Smart are the best trade chips they have. Any team that asks for less is selling themselves short.
As far as Houston goes, I really don't see us making a move. The talk in Houston is all about how great the chemistry is right now. The only thing we need to do is get D-Mo signed. (and play some freakin' defense )
Posted 18 November 2016 - 09:54 PM
Edited by Jatman20, 18 November 2016 - 09:58 PM.
Posted 18 November 2016 - 10:27 PM
Edited by Jatman20, 18 November 2016 - 10:35 PM.
Posted 19 November 2016 - 01:32 AM
I am operating under the assumption that Gay would be re-signing with Boston and Ainge would have some sort of handshake agreement on that. Of course he's not giving up that much for a rental. Rudy Gay may not get "star" credit, but he puts up "star" numbers and can do "star" things.
There is a difference between being one of the best at your position and the NBA marketing you to make money. Ask Avery Bradley, Khris Middleton, Mike Conley, JJ Redick, Paul Millsap, et al.
Posted 19 November 2016 - 04:16 PM
True johnnygold: Ennis was a first round pick (18th in 2014) while WC-S was a first round pick (8th in 2015); one gets 9 mins
and 3 points while the other gets 5 points in 13 mins.....so they kind of cancel each other out. So it may come down to how
much one values Rudy Gay and how one sees KJ. Heavy rumors are Rudy has indicated he wants to play for Miami or Lakers
next season. So the team that goes after Rudy better come to terms with that. As the Kings get closer to the trading deadline,
the deals will become poorer. It would be a win-win situation for the Rockets in my opinion. If he stays then that means it worked
out with the Rockets team....a D'Antoni scheme that tends to make good players money. If he walks, then $14 mil (player option)
is free'd up going into the summer free agency. Now I wouldn't give a first for "just" Rudy Gay and I wouldn't give a first for "just"
Willie Cauley-Stein...but I would use a first for a combo deal for both.
So I may be a homer that is over-valuing Rockets players and under-valuing Rudy and WCS. You may be over-valuing Rudy/WCS
and under-valuing KJ/Ennis (potential) & Brewer veteran presence. The Rockets have Ariza, Nene, Gordon, Ryno for mentoring
the young guys. Kings have Barnes....Cousins may choke him out before taking his advice. Affalo is probably too quite. Brewer
might be exactly what Cousins/Kings need to help Cousins mature. I was watching the Kings vs Clips last night. Cousins was
going crazy every play. Affalo had to separate Cousins from the refs and other players on one occasion. Affalo needs help if they
are going to make the Cousins experiment work. And yes, WCS is being used all wrong by the Kings. They had a heavy dose
of Cousins post ups with WCS on the court. WCS looked like he didn't fit in. He is trying to stay out of the way while wanting
to contribute. With the Rockets his role would be better defined....with space. Every time he rolled to the basket after setting a
pick, none of the offensive players would hit him with a pass. Every time I told myself Harden would have lobbed it perfectly
to him or slid a pass with his momentum going to the rim. WCS could be as productive with the Rockets as Capela is at the moment.
Anyway nice talk johnnygold. Playing GM here is pure speculation without the other team reps present. All we can do is
note what we would put on the table. What the team holding the other players would agree on is a guess. For WCS/Rudy Gay
I would offer Brewer/KJ/Ennis (or Bobby Brown) w/ only one first round pick, and up to two second round picks. Chinanu,
and the rights to Zhou QI and/or Llull are in play as well. Until I hear another rumor....this one is the best I know of. I don't
think Nerlens Noel works for the Rockets. And I don't believe Klay Thompson rumors of being unhappy....not that the Rockets
want him. A Bogut and/or Harrison Barnes may be in play later this year if they keep stinking up the place. Keep that in mind
with every contender......they are holding their assists like Crowder or Ariza for big star dealing. Because the Rockets big man
cupboard is a little bare.....the Rockets may take more chance.....right now. It would secure the center position for years
to come with Capela/WCS.......on the cheap. It's my belief the deal for Rudy Gay is on the table (Rudy x KJ/Brewer).
Kings are holding out for Ariza instead of Brewer. Time is not on the Kings side.
Edited by thejohnnygold, 19 November 2016 - 05:12 PM.
Posted 19 November 2016 - 05:09 PM
Slick Shoes noted that the Rockets may be playing Brewer to try and show that he still has some value. I agree with him. As Rockets fans, we have seen Brewer's value diminish greatly since he arrived--and it was limited when he got here. He had already lost a step and it appears he has lost another one.
I watched last night's LAC-SAC game as well. Rudy looked awful. The Clips have made a lot of guys look bad this year so I'm not worried about that. He's been very good this year overall. Sac's coach came out after the game and announced the Kings will be going small a lot more moving forward. That should mean more minutes at PF for Gay.
I really think Cousins gets moved (probably this Summer). His value is severely capped by two things: his reputation and the fact that he can't drag a team to the playoffs. He is a stat monster, but has never been on a team with a winning record. Even factoring in the "Sacramento" factor, that is a very big concern.
It seems Sacramento is angling hard for an upgrade at PG in any trade for Gay. (per the rumor mill) They are such a mess and should really consider scrapping it all. The cumulative haul from trading Cousins, Gay, and Collison should net them some quality draft picks/prospects plus secure quality lottery picks of their own for the next couple years. They clearly can't compete with the elite teams in the West right now.
From what I can tell, Gay is opting out to bump his salary up as much as to "get out of Sacramento". Can't blame him. He should easily fetch $20M+ per year. No reason to opt-in to $14M on a perennial loser just to get a year older and risk injury. Divac has come out and said the Kings are willing to let him walk next Summer--that being competitive this year is more important. Considering their record, that might have all just been lip service.
Posted 19 November 2016 - 07:09 PM
Edited by Jatman20, 19 November 2016 - 07:13 PM.
Posted 19 November 2016 - 08:06 PM
Posted 21 November 2016 - 03:56 PM
Thinking about the Blazers going after Noel...not sure they can do it. They aren't giving up Lillard/McCollum. Allen Crabbe would get the ball rolling, but he can't be traded until next Summer. Maybe they give up some draft picks plus Aminu? Maybe...
Odds are they sit tight and wait for Ezeli to return, but his recent setback with his knee might force their hand.
Posted 22 November 2016 - 12:39 AM
Edited by Jatman20, 22 November 2016 - 12:44 AM.
Posted 23 November 2016 - 05:14 AM
Edited by Jatman20, 23 November 2016 - 05:19 AM.
Posted 23 November 2016 - 03:41 PM
Read Noel is set to come back to team soon. After looking at his number and the numbers for Hollis T.
I like this trade. Rockets adding sweetener in the form of pick(s). Free up Ariza to cover opposing teams
best wing while Hollis and Dekker can platoon SF on those days.
While I would love the incoming part of that deal I just cannot take any trade for a stud player seriously when it features Brewer--even with picks. Once he gets down to 1 year left on his deal then, yes, he can be dealt. Until then, I am pretty sure we are stuck with him...or we wind up taking another team's trash and putting them in his place.
Trust me. Noel has other suitors and they are going to make better offers.
Also, I'm not sure about whether or not we get Noel's Bird Rights if we trade for him this year... That is very important. What is also important is that Capela is coming on strong after a shaky start to the season. He's looking good on both ends of the floor and still has room to get better in every way.
Really, all we need to do is put KJ on the floor instead of Brewer and maybe try and find an upgrade to the back up PG spot. Oh, and sign D-Mo
Posted 23 November 2016 - 08:57 PM
Edited by Jatman20, 23 November 2016 - 08:59 PM.
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