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@  Willk : (19 November 2015 - 02:06 AM) fire McHale! playing like crap again
@  SadLakerFan : (18 November 2015 - 06:21 PM) It's unfair, but it's the right move because it's the only move major move they had available to them. But, it seems just a tad premature - I wonder what was really said in the player meeting.
@  majik19 : (18 November 2015 - 06:03 PM) So much for building off continuity now that the core is in place... It's probably about time for another "Morey's Plan" article from Rahat.
@  txtdo1411 : (18 November 2015 - 05:26 PM) No problem. He definitely made it clear that changes will continue to be made until we are winning again.
@  cointurtlemoose : (18 November 2015 - 05:19 PM) Thanks for the link, txtdo; good words from Morey, I thought
@  cointurtlemoose : (18 November 2015 - 05:14 PM) Wow, I expected this 6 or 7 games from now if things didn't change... This seems a tad early. And they better have a replacement actually in mind and ready to hire, otherwise this seems like a misguided move
@  txtdo1411 : (18 November 2015 - 05:13 PM) Its going on right now.
@  txtdo1411 : (18 November 2015 - 05:13 PM) http://api.viglink.c...9&title=Rockets Press Conference 11am - ClutchFans&txt=http://www.khou.com/videos/news/loca...7/29/12651418/
@  slick shoes : (18 November 2015 - 05:12 PM) Anyone know where to listen in to the DM press conference?
@  DenverRocket : (18 November 2015 - 04:50 PM) Shocked too, but then again not. Something had to give. I can't see JB being given the reins f/t. Surely they have a contingency? Thibs?
@  txtdo1411 : (18 November 2015 - 04:48 PM) I wonder if the plan is to find a replacement fairly quickly, or to give JB a shot. I'm trying to understand how things would change, since JB has been in the locker room all year. The players are going to give him effort now just because McHale is gone?
@  majik19 : (18 November 2015 - 04:22 PM) just shocked. I feel like this is now a lost season. We were struggling under McHale, but do we really think J.B. can lead us to a championship?
@  thenit : (18 November 2015 - 04:19 PM) Its becoming a winner or becoming Melo, great scorer but not coachable
@  Mario Peña : (18 November 2015 - 04:14 PM) I'm disappointed in the players too. Here is Harden's chance, win a championship or get relegated to being considered a guy that can't get on the same page with a coach.
@  txtdo1411 : (18 November 2015 - 04:11 PM) I think it is safe to say that we fired the only person that seemed to actually care about winning some games. I am extremely disappointed in the players. Who knows what was going behind the scenes.
@  slick shoes : (18 November 2015 - 04:05 PM) If we hire Scott Brooks I will stop watching the team all together.
@  Mario Peña : (18 November 2015 - 03:56 PM) Let the Scott Brooks talk commence (championship Rocket, Durant Dream, Westbrook on the horizon).
@  Mario Peña : (18 November 2015 - 03:54 PM) Kind of crazy that Morey went with Harden and Howard over McHale. Someday I'd like to hear the story.
@  thejohnnygold : (18 November 2015 - 03:41 PM) I guess we know what the players talked about at their meeting...
@  slick shoes : (18 November 2015 - 03:21 PM) McHale has tread marks on his poorly fitting suit.

Photo

Players Only Meeting


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#1 slick shoes

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Posted 17 November 2015 - 03:24 PM

I spent some time reading this article this morning and began to wonder if this could possibly help the Rockets make the necessary adjustments. One main concern I have is that I don't know that we have the proper leadership on the team to make this a successful possibility. I do know, however, that the lines of communication are clearly not open and something needs to be done about it. Thoughts?


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trickin' six digits on kicks and still holdin'.

#2 Willk

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    Posted 17 November 2015 - 03:57 PM

    No, we do not have the proper leadership starting with the GM. This organization needs a major shake-up from top to bottom.


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    #3 cointurtlemoose

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      Posted 17 November 2015 - 04:54 PM

      ^Wait, we're calling for Morey's head now??


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      #4 slick shoes

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      Posted 17 November 2015 - 05:46 PM

      ^Wait, we're calling for Morey's head now??

       

      Willk is out for blood.


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      trickin' six digits on kicks and still holdin'.

      #5 txtdo1411

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      Posted 17 November 2015 - 05:59 PM

      No, we do not have the proper leadership starting with the GM. This organization needs a major shake-up from top to bottom.

       

      I think you need a few days away from the boards. Firing Morey is certainly not the answer right now. I don't know what it is, maybe fire Mchale? Shake up the backcourt rotation? Bench Harden? I would try almost anything before letting the guy that has unanimously been a top GM for the last 5+ years. 


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      #6 bboley24

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        Posted 17 November 2015 - 09:52 PM

        Yeah I don't know why people are putting the blame on one of the best GMs in the league.  He put together a stellar lineup.  Drafted well minus freak show royce. 


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        #7 Cooper

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          Posted 17 November 2015 - 10:06 PM

          The players are playing like they don't care about wining not sure whos all to blame but most of it seems to be on them to get back on d and at least attempt to grab a board or two every once and a while.


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          #8 slick shoes

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          Posted 17 November 2015 - 10:18 PM

          LINK

           

          072513-shows-bet-presents-chappelle-show


          Edited by slick shoes, 17 November 2015 - 10:18 PM.

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          #9 Willk

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            Posted 18 November 2015 - 12:22 AM

            I think you need a few days away from the boards. Firing Morey is certainly not the answer right now. I don't know what it is, maybe fire Mchale? Shake up the backcourt rotation? Bench Harden? I would try almost anything before letting the guy that has unanimously been a top GM for the last 5+ years. 

            Why wouldn't firing Morey be an answer? Morey has been the GM since 2007. His teams have lost 4 times in the 1st round, once in the 2nd round, and once in the conference finals. The rest of the time, his teams have not made the playoffs. Not sure if that is top 5. He is really the coach of the team. McHale is just a puppet. McHale runs Morey's philosophy and does not deviate. I have no problem firing McHale and bringing in someone like a Thibs, but I doubt Morey will hire a strong willed coach like a Thibs. It is all about Morey ball. The organization lets Howard & Harden do whatever they want. Whenever things start to go wrong, Howard starts searching for . Harden's complete lack of effort on D the last 2 out of 3 years is an embarrassment. Couple this with the fact that Morey constructed a roster that is too small and 40% (Howard and DMO) of the bigs are going to miss at least 1/2 the season with injuries and rest (do you have faith in the 3rd, TJones to play in 60% of the games). Questions need to be asked. And of course when someone like Marc Stein runs into him last night, Morey refuses to speak with him. Bush league move. Of course, if the Rockets were 9-1, Morey would be everywhere.


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            #10 rockets best fan

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            Posted 18 November 2015 - 06:34 AM

            No, we do not have the proper leadership starting with the GM. This organization needs a major shake-up from top to bottom.

            I disagree. I don't think we need an overhaul. I think we need fine tuning. I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT ON BOARD WITH FIRING MOREY. however McHale? that should be getting closer to coming under consideration 


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            you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


            #11 thejohnnygold

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            Posted 18 November 2015 - 01:41 PM

            Why wouldn't firing Morey be an answer? Morey has been the GM since 2007. His teams have lost 4 times in the 1st round, once in the 2nd round, and once in the conference finals. The rest of the time, his teams have not made the playoffs. Not sure if that is top 5. He is really the coach of the team. McHale is just a puppet. McHale runs Morey's philosophy and does not deviate. I have no problem firing McHale and bringing in someone like a Thibs, but I doubt Morey will hire a strong willed coach like a Thibs. It is all about Morey ball. The organization lets Howard & Harden do whatever they want. Whenever things start to go wrong, Howard starts searching for . Harden's complete lack of effort on D the last 2 out of 3 years is an embarrassment. Couple this with the fact that Morey constructed a roster that is too small and 40% (Howard and DMO) of the bigs are going to miss at least 1/2 the season with injuries and rest (do you have faith in the 3rd, TJones to play in 60% of the games). Questions need to be asked. And of course when someone like Marc Stein runs into him last night, Morey refuses to speak with him. Bush league move. Of course, if the Rockets were 9-1, Morey would be everywhere.

             

            That's one way of looking at it.  Another is that Morey helped build 2 legit title contenders over the course of 8 years all while fielding competitive squads and never posting a losing record.  His draft skills are evident simply by looking at how many of his picks (the vast majority of which are outside the lottery) are still playing a relevant role in the league.  If memory serves, he ranks #1 in that category, but I'd have to re-visit to be certain.

             

            Those first round exits?  You mean the one against an OKC team that had a legit shot to win it all if Westbrook doesn't bang knees with Beverley?  The one where Parsons and Harden forgot to show up and the Blazers got one too many last second shots to fall?  Perhaps the '07 7 game series we lost to the Deron Williams/Carlos Boozer Jazz who happened to have a sweet shooting center (Okur) that Yao couldn't cover...and I don't even want to remember what Boozer did to Yao on the block (If only I could forget  :( ).  The Jazz did it to us again the following year.  It's called a bad match up.  They also had some guy named Paul Millsap, Kirilenko, and others.

             

            Those are your 4 first round exits.  I don't see any fault in Morey there.

             

            The following year, we took the eventual champion Lakers to game 7 in the 2nd round and that was with no T-Mac and losing Yao in game 2.  What did Morey do wrong there?  We had a legit shot at a title with Yao, T-Mac, Artest, Battier, Lowry, Scola, Landry, Brooks, Barry, Mutombo, and the Chuckwagon!  What a terrible roster...who did that?

             

            The WCF loss to Golden State is still quite fresh.  We were underdogs even if we had our starting PG and starting PF (who is our 2nd-3rd best player).  What we did do was outlast 5 other legit title contenders before succumbing to a team that walloped everyone.

             

            I'm sorry, I don't see a problem with Morey anywhere in all this.  You can claim he has blown some draft picks.  You can claim he has made some less than stellar trades.  You can claim he should have given us an extra big to play with this season (I agree there).  I do not agree that his ego is like that of a Jerry Jones/Al Davis.  He simply provides the data to McHale who most likely glances at it, shrugs, mutters something about, "why do you need a team of math-heads to figure that out--I could have told you that if you just asked", tosses it in a pile of papers 3 feet high of other data Morey has crunched, and then heads out to the court and tells the guys not to let the ball get "sticky".

             

            While I would like to see more out of our coaches on both sides of the ball, what can you do when the players aren't even executing the basic aspects of the game?  Box out?  What's that!?!?!  What the heck are they shooting 1000's of three pointers in practice for if it translates to 29% so far this season?

             

            Pretty much everyone agreed we needed another playmaker after last season.  Morey went and got one of the league leaders in assists who also excels at shooting the 3, getting to the rim, and drawing fouls.  Seemed like a no-brainer...and it may still work out.  Right now, it looks like a terrible move.  The good news is it's only for one season if it is.  Lawson's track record indicates he will return to form and be a solid PG for us so I don't think it's time to freak out.

             

            You have every right to your opinion, but I don't think you will find many who will agree with you around here.

             

            BTW, Marc Stein is Mark Cuban's lap dog.  I wouldn't talk to him either.


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            #12 Willk

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              Posted 18 November 2015 - 09:11 PM

              That's one way of looking at it.  Another is that Morey helped build 2 legit title contenders over the course of 8 years all while fielding competitive squads and never posting a losing record.  His draft skills are evident simply by looking at how many of his picks (the vast majority of which are outside the lottery) are still playing a relevant role in the league.  If memory serves, he ranks #1 in that category, but I'd have to re-visit to be certain.

               

              Those first round exits?  You mean the one against an OKC team that had a legit shot to win it all if Westbrook doesn't bang knees with Beverley?  The one where Parsons and Harden forgot to show up and the Blazers got one too many last second shots to fall?  Perhaps the '07 7 game series we lost to the Deron Williams/Carlos Boozer Jazz who happened to have a sweet shooting center (Okur) that Yao couldn't cover...and I don't even want to remember what Boozer did to Yao on the block (If only I could forget  :( ).  The Jazz did it to us again the following year.  It's called a bad match up.  They also had some guy named Paul Millsap, Kirilenko, and others.

               

              Those are your 4 first round exits.  I don't see any fault in Morey there.

               

              The following year, we took the eventual champion Lakers to game 7 in the 2nd round and that was with no T-Mac and losing Yao in game 2.  What did Morey do wrong there?  We had a legit shot at a title with Yao, T-Mac, Artest, Battier, Lowry, Scola, Landry, Brooks, Barry, Mutombo, and the Chuckwagon!  What a terrible roster...who did that?

               

              The WCF loss to Golden State is still quite fresh.  We were underdogs even if we had our starting PG and starting PF (who is our 2nd-3rd best player).  What we did do was outlast 5 other legit title contenders before succumbing to a team that walloped everyone.

               

              I'm sorry, I don't see a problem with Morey anywhere in all this.  You can claim he has blown some draft picks.  You can claim he has made some less than stellar trades.  You can claim he should have given us an extra big to play with this season (I agree there).  I do not agree that his ego is like that of a Jerry Jones/Al Davis.  He simply provides the data to McHale who most likely glances at it, shrugs, mutters something about, "why do you need a team of math-heads to figure that out--I could have told you that if you just asked", tosses it in a pile of papers 3 feet high of other data Morey has crunched, and then heads out to the court and tells the guys not to let the ball get "sticky".

               

              While I would like to see more out of our coaches on both sides of the ball, what can you do when the players aren't even executing the basic aspects of the game?  Box out?  What's that!?!?!  What the heck are they shooting 1000's of three pointers in practice for if it translates to 29% so far this season?

               

              Pretty much everyone agreed we needed another playmaker after last season.  Morey went and got one of the league leaders in assists who also excels at shooting the 3, getting to the rim, and drawing fouls.  Seemed like a no-brainer...and it may still work out.  Right now, it looks like a terrible move.  The good news is it's only for one season if it is.  Lawson's track record indicates he will return to form and be a solid PG for us so I don't think it's time to freak out.

               

              You have every right to your opinion, but I don't think you will find many who will agree with you around here.

               

              BTW, Marc Stein is Mark Cuban's lap dog.  I wouldn't talk to him either.

              I'm ok if there is nobody here agreeing with me about Morey. I may be a bit extreme, but I am trying to point out that Morey does deserve some blame. The players deserve the most blame followed by the coaches and then Morey. It is ok to question his moves. I am not just going to chant "In Morey I Trust."

              Nic Batum would look nice in Rockets uniform. So would Demarre Carroll. We could also argue about trading Lowry and/ or letting Dragic walk so that Dwight Howard could be chased and then ending up with Jeremy Lin  (cold sweat) instead of Howard (luckily Harden fell into our lap so the Howard dream could come true). The Same Dekker pick was a head scratcher especially since a young guard or big was needed at that time, not another SF. I do have concerns that Dork Elvis may be reading his own press and may get full of himself. I am just hoping that we are not in the midst of a Joe Dumars situation. Joe was at the top of the GM universe after winning the championship in 2004. Every move he made prior to the championship worked out well. Joe enjoyed the attention (remember the famous photo of Joe in his office holding a phone to each ear while looking at the computer screen?). Then he drafted Darko and everything went downhill from there. Trading Billups for Iverson, signing Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva to big contracts, signing Josh Smith to play SF, etc... I hope this is not the beginning.

              How well this team does after firing McHale and giving the season to JB will determine how much blame Morey really deserves, if any.


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              #13 slick shoes

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              Posted 18 November 2015 - 09:21 PM

              We could also argue about trading Lowry and/ or letting Dragic walk so that Dwight Howard could be chased and then ending up with Jeremy Lin  (cold sweat) instead of Howard (luckily Harden fell into our lap so the Howard dream could come true). The Same Dekker pick was a head scratcher especially since a young guard or big was needed at that time, not another SF. 

               

              -Lowry was having issues with the coaching staff and was not a good fit for the team at the time. Good move by Morey. 

              -Letting Dragic walk was about long term free agency flexibility and if I have to go back and decide whether I want Dragic or Howard, I go with Howard every. Single. Time. Good move by Morey. 

              -Sam Dekker should not have been available to us in the draft, but was the best player available so we gambled. That's what being a GM is all about. It is still entirely too early to determine whether or not Dekker is a wash. The kid has barely played. I wanted Jerian Grant or Tyus Jones and I believe we would've chosen either one had Dekker not fallen as much as he did. 


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              trickin' six digits on kicks and still holdin'.

              #14 thejohnnygold

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              Posted 18 November 2015 - 09:58 PM

              To add to that--I'm still ok with the Batum trade at the time.

               

              Morey flipped Batum for Donte Green (a 6' 11" guy with SF skills), Joey Dorsey (who played like Kenneth Fareid in college...and then couldn't stop fouling people), and a future 2nd (Sam Young ended up the pick, but we had already used it to ship out Steve Francis).

               

              Further, in '08-'09 we were set at SF with Artest, Battier, and James White.  On the other hand, we had Landry, Scola, and Brian Cook at PF with Yao, Mutombo, and Chuck Hayes at center.  We needed bigs and Morey went and got them--the very thing you are saying he should have done this year.  He picked 25th that year.  There were no sure-fire bigs left on the board.  What did he do?  He took the best available and flipped him for two bigs to double his odds of getting lucky.  It didn't work out.  As Morey often says, don't judge the results, judge the process.

               

              Now, it turns out Pekovic, DeAndre Jordan, and Omer Asik were all still on the board at 25....C'est la vie.  (Dragic and George Hill were available as well)

               

              As for DeMarre Carroll (27th pick in 2009)--he was thrown away by Orlando, Memphis, Houston, Denver, and Utah before finally finding a role as a 3&D guy in Atlanta.  That says more about him than it does the 5 teams who passed on him.  He wasn't ready.  Danny Green is the only player of note that Morey should feel bad for not getting in that draft (we used our picks on Llull and Budinger).

               

              Hindsight is 20/20 and if we don't include the context of what was going on and why things were happening it can be quite damning.


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              #15 majik19

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                Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:10 PM

                The only draft pick that I think Morey really screwed up was picking Marcus Morris over Kawhi Leonard. That was a case where he outsmarted himself.

                 

                Maybe Leonard doesn't develop like he did in San Antonio. And Marcus Morris has turned out to be a solid pro in his own right. Also, I am keeping in mind that Chandler Parsons actually played the 3 for us that year, and maybe he wouldn't have developed if we had picked Leonard. 

                 

                Even with all of that in mind, he definitely should've picked Leonard. I remember thinking it was a head scratcher at the time, and it still is. 

                 

                That being said, I'm still behind Morey. He acquired two stars out of dust and filled out a talented (though possibly ill-fitting) roster around them. You can almost always trade talent for more talent. It's much more difficult to obtain talent, especially if you're drafting at the end of the lottery every year at best. 


                Edited by majik19, 18 November 2015 - 10:11 PM.

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                #16 Willk

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                  Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:25 PM

                  -Lowry was having issues with the coaching staff and was not a good fit for the team at the time. Good move by Morey. 

                  -Letting Dragic walk was about long term free agency flexibility and if I have to go back and decide whether I want Dragic or Howard, I go with Howard every. Single. Time. Good move by Morey. 

                  -Sam Dekker should not have been available to us in the draft, but was the best player available so we gambled. That's what being a GM is all about. It is still entirely too early to determine whether or not Dekker is a wash. The kid has barely played. I wanted Jerian Grant or Tyus Jones and I believe we would've chosen either one had Dekker not fallen as much as he did. 

                  Lowry - he was clearly talented and yes he was immature. do you keep talent or do you keep the coach? Sacramento is in the same situation.

                  Dragic - letting Dragic walk was about clearing enough space to sign Howard. However, Howard had zero interest in signing with the Rockets. That is why he surprisingly opted in to his final year. Yes, if Howard said that he wanted to play for the Rockets, you let Dragic walk immediately. But the opposite was true. There were a lot of factors that allowed Houston to be able to convince Howard to sign with the Rockets a year after Dragic left. The two biggest were Houston luckily landing Harden despite Golden State and Washington offering better packages (imagine what OKC would be like if they had Thompson or Beal now) and Dwight experiencing Kobe. There is no way Howard would come to Houston to play with Lin/Martin/Patterson/Parsons. He would have ended up in Dallas, Golden State, or back with the Lakers.

                  Sam Dekker - I do not agree that Dekker should not have been available to the Rockets. I saw one mock draft with him going in the top 12. I also saw a couple with him going in the 20s. Only time will tell if this was a good pick or not.


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                  #17 Willk

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                    Posted 18 November 2015 - 10:47 PM

                    To add to that--I'm still ok with the Batum trade at the time.

                     

                    Morey flipped Batum for Donte Green (a 6' 11" guy with SF skills), Joey Dorsey (who played like Kenneth Fareid in college...and then couldn't stop fouling people), and a future 2nd (Sam Young ended up the pick, but we had already used it to ship out Steve Francis).

                     

                    Further, in '08-'09 we were set at SF with Artest, Battier, and James White.  On the other hand, we had Landry, Scola, and Brian Cook at PF with Yao, Mutombo, and Chuck Hayes at center.  We needed bigs and Morey went and got them--the very thing you are saying he should have done this year.  He picked 25th that year.  There were no sure-fire bigs left on the board.  What did he do?  He took the best available and flipped him for two bigs to double his odds of getting lucky.  It didn't work out.  As Morey often says, don't judge the results, judge the process.

                     

                    Now, it turns out Pekovic, DeAndre Jordan, and Omer Asik were all still on the board at 25....C'est la vie.  (Dragic and George Hill were available as well)

                     

                    As for DeMarre Carroll (27th pick in 2009)--he was thrown away by Orlando, Memphis, Houston, Denver, and Utah before finally finding a role as a 3&D guy in Atlanta.  That says more about him than it does the 5 teams who passed on him.  He wasn't ready.  Danny Green is the only player of note that Morey should feel bad for not getting in that draft (we used our picks on Llull and Budinger).

                     

                    Hindsight is 20/20 and if we don't include the context of what was going on and why things were happening it can be quite damning.

                    At the end of Morey's term as GM he will be judged by if he won a championship or not. Hopefully before he leaves or is fired he gets at least one and we all can celebrate. That is everybody's dream here even if we disagree about players, coaches, or front office staff.

                    So far this year Morey has made the following mistakes:

                    1. Sign McHale to an extension, only to fire him a few months later

                    2. Trade for Lawson who appears to not fit

                    3. Sign Brewer to an extension

                    4. Not add another Big to cover for Howard and DMO

                    Obviously Lawson can turn it around and be the great PG he has been.

                    Brewer can also turn it around. I have never seen him play with so little urgency/ competiveness as he is this year. If he does not play better, his $8 million contract is not untradeable.

                    Maybe Howard gets cleared to play in back to backs in January along with DMO being cleared to play. This would make #4 moot.

                    Let me reiterate I believe the blame falls in this order:

                    1. The players 90%

                    2. the coaches 7%

                    3. The GM 3&

                    However, I do believe Morey deserves some blame. If JB turns this around and gets the players to care again, firing McHale will be considered a genius move.


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