thenit

People like KG are fake tough guys. They like to go at guys who are just nice like bosh and howard. Just because you don't stoop to their level or alter your life to their "norms" makes them weak, but in reality that shows that you are secure in yourself. When push come to shove in regards of fighting and being tough when it matters means so much more. I have never like KG and his antics. 

@rick

So I guess two wrongs make it right? U.S should coast through a world championship and if they didn't win, the "blame" would fall on those who play poorly.

Harden is great but when you are a superstar you get the praise and the blame when the team doesn't succeed.
Example look at most championship winning teams, the stars get the praise and also the criticism if they don't succeed because they will always have the most impact on a teams success. If we ever win, you bet that harden would get most of the accolades and the role players will barely be mentioned.

@rbf there are better choices like Bledsoe which I rather give that kind of money too, but Rahat was talking about in terms of value. You will have to pay Lowry 12x of what you are paying Bev and defensively Bev is the same or slightly better. Offensively if he becomes Lin as a spot up with harden running the show it doesn't make a huge difference. So in terms of value And fit Bev is almost optimal.

I wouldn't touch him. He is very good offensively but also overrated as hell. If you can't lead your team to above 500 record in the east or into the playoffs with the players around him who are all decent something is wrong. Also he is not a good fit next to Harden, I rather take Rondo cheaper and slightly better fit. Rondo would also excel with Howard and his D would be needed next to Harden. Imagine that Kyrie having trouble guarding the paltry stock of PGs in the East what would happen with all the elite PGs in the West we would get killed.

Beverley is expected to defend, hustle, and space the floor.  He's not expected to "outplay" the opposing PG with points and assists.  
 
What more do you want from a guy getting paid the league minimum?

I agree, but what you get paid at the moment has nothing to do with expectations right now of a starter. It is what it is, if you are in the rotation you are suppose to just help the team win especially when you start. Bev has been ok, but he is a pest but when he faces teams who sets good screens he just runs into the big man hence he gets killed on the defensive side which makes him almost useless at those games. Just saying if he can shoot a little bit better and contribute a little more on offensive side he will be more valuable when he struggles at guarding his man

Yes we are making excuses. We pretend that the issue is not that big and sweeps it under the rug by saying he is saving himself or etc. He needs to be accountable for his lack of effort. You saw the difference when he actually engaged in D against GS. I like that the national media has kind of publicly shamed him, and hopefully the GS game is just the beginning. There is no other player except for LBJ that I would trade Harden as of Today, but just because I wouldn't trade him doesn't mean that I have expectations as a fan that he should commit to D. He doesn't have to be an all defensive player, just show that he is willing to do the dirty work and lead the team as the undisputable best player. If people see him play tough D other players would follow. That's what great superstar does, they lead by example. I don't think that's too much to ask for.

The best players in the game realize that their game has to change to stay relevant. Look at Wade and Kobe their are elite athletes who has slowed down, but they developed post games to stay relevant to add to their arsenals when they can't blow by their opponents like they did when they got to the league. Howard need to develop a bankshot or something just to expand his game or even just improving his FT to 66% 2out3 would change so much for him. All I'm saying is that players just rely purely on athletic ability won't last long in this league once their body slows down and its been so long since the surgery I don't see enough improvement to believe he will become Magic D12.

 

Its the same with my critisicm of Harden, that he needs to play two way basketball in order for us to contend while people always try to sweep it under the rug and say oh he will dial it up in the playoffs. I didn't see it last year. Or that its the minutes etc, he is young if LeBron and KD and other superstars can do it, I expect him to do it too.

 

To me my expectations are higher on our 2 max players because they will get most of the praise if we are successful, therefore they should take the responsibility to do whatever it takes to win, sacrificing their min, shots or what have you to win. Make your team better not yourself.

Just to put things in perspective, these are the highest actual salaries for PGs for 2014-2015.

 

1. Chris Paul $20.1 mil

2. Deron Williams $19.8 mil

3. Derek Rose $18.9 mil

4. Russell Westbrook $15.7 mil

5. Jeremy Lin $14.9 mil

6. Tony Parker $12.5 mil

 

One of those names is not like the others.

If you are going to do that then you could but the 5 million he is making this year thus making him one of the best contracts for a PG not in a rookie contract. Its easy to manipulate numbers to prove your point. His cap hit is 8.3 no matter what he gets paid the last year, the only one who should be concern should be the Team writing the paycheck, we should worry about salary cap maximization.

I

to me that's a problem that can be worked out through adjustments, however it's clear T-Jones is the best option at PF right now. I'll tell you want I'm most upset about......................where is the perimeter defense. teams are raining three's on our heads. our defensive schemes are a dumpster fire.

I agree. I always said harden is a poor defender, and that bev would cover some of that. But even when harden isn't playing, it's the same thing. Maybe it's more of a system thing or coaching? It doesn't matter who we have at the wings our perimeter defence is awful.

Fans almost always overvalue their teams own players as is the case with Lin.

 

I would agree with this but I also think we are too in love with Harden, Bev and Parsons. Especially Harden has a lot of weaknesses, turnovers, lack of defence, 40% of the nights he is shooting well below average, maybe ego (TBD with Howard) etc.

 

He is still elite but people are saying that he is better than when T-Mac peaked and he is close to Kobe etc.

 

In terms of Lin, I would rank him in hte bottom half of the starting PGs probably around 20-25.

 

In regars about Rondo, he is one of the top pg if he has the ball but as a fit to Houston he must be the worst possible fit of all players, selfish negeative leader, can't shoot, needs the ball which negates Harden skillset.

 

Best fit would be a Fisher type of PG. A spot up shooter who doesnt need the ball in his hand.

Ok I've been trying to stay off the forum during Houston off-season until FA starts, but I have followed the forum.

 

I agree with JG's assesment of Harden. Most people seems to give Harden too many excuses and quoting stats. While most of his stats are very impressive, and can display a lot of his greatness, the game logs gives a different view of Mr Harden.

 

DATE OPP SCORE MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS Fri 5/3

• vs
•  
• OKC

L 94-103 43 7-22 .318 4-10 .400 8-11 .727 6 7 2 2 1 4 26 Wed 5/1

• @
•  
• OKC

W 107-100 42 10-16 .625 7-9 .778 4-5 .800 8 3 1 1 2 3 31 Mon 4/29

• vs
•  
• OKC

W 105-103 35 4-12 .333 0-4 .000 7-8 .875 1 3 1 5 5 10 15 Sat 4/27

• vs
•  
• OKC

L 101-104 44 9-22 .409 2-8 .250 10-15 .667 8 6 2 2 4 2 30 Wed 4/24

• @
•  
• OKC

L 102-105 45 9-24 .375 1-7 .143 17-20 .850 11 6 0 1 3 6 36 Sun 4/21

• @
•  
• OKC

L 91-120 34 6-19 .316 1-6 .167 7-7 1.000 6 2 0 1 3 2 20 Conference Quarterfinals 40.5 7.5-19.2 .391 2.5-7.3 .341 8.8-11.0 .803 6.7 4.5 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.5 26.3 POSTSEASON STATS MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS Averages 40.5 7.5-19.2 .391 2.5-7.3 .341 8.8-11.0 .803 6.7 4.5 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.5 26.3 Totals 243 45-115 .391 15-44 .341 53-66 .803 40 27 6 12 18 27 158

 

One look at the playoff series. 6-19 , 9-24, 9-22, 10-16, 7-22, 4-12, Those are the fg attempts and made.

 

4 out of 6 games he shot under 40%. While the overall average is decent, there are too many games when he shoots under 33%. He still got his 26 ppg in the series due to his FT which are important but as a shooter and finisher he wasn't that great. And if you take off his hot night when he was 10 for 16 he was during the other games which was 35 for 99 which is 35%.

 

I forgot the stats and too tired to looked at the complete game logs. But on a quick scan he had 13 games where he shot under 30% out of 78 games which is roughly 17% of the games. So your are looking at almost 1 out of 5 games he is shooting under 30 %.

 

Under 40 % the game total is 31 games out of 78 games. = 39.7% round it up to 40 % so basically 2 out 5 games he shoots under 40 %.

 

If harden just shoots under 40% its not terrible because he gets on the line but most of those games he is in the mid 30s or below. But you have to consider that out of a full season schedule this is 32  games when he struggles. And for someone who doesn't contribute to defence its kind of hard to have your go to guy shoot poorly and play no D to win especially when Harden is our best player by far.

 

Sorry for cluttered post, but I just put it up quickly. I would give Harden an A for exceeding our expectations but an overall grade of B+ because when you don't play defence and you struggle about 40% of the games where you shoot below 40% and dont stop your opponent its kind of hard to give an A. It's like giving a student an A when he is a great test taker, but can't put up a decent paper, because you need to do both to earn that illusive A where you almost had a perfect season. His D is just too poor to deserve an A even though he ace it on one side of the court.

 

He is a potential Superstar, but right now he is just a offensive star, not a superstar player.

Burke seems a lot like DJ Augustine to me

 I agree, its hit and miss with Burke, I don't even think he was that dominant in the NCAA playoffs.

 

Not every point guard comes into the league and starts tearing things up--the ones that do tend to have freakish athleticism.

 

What would you guys say to a Chauncey Billups comparison?  In one regard this would be terrible as it took him until his 5th team to really find himself (Detroit in his 7th year).  Still, I can see their play style being similar--not having elite athleticism Billups had to rely on outside shooting to set up the rest of his game.  He developed a solid outside game and we all know about his clutch shooting.  In the Pistons' two championship seasons he averaged roughly 17 pts, 3 rebs, and 6 assists.  Not exactly blowing the roof off the building.  Lin has better quickness, is developing that shot and has shown glimpses of enjoying the pressure of late game shooting. 

 

I am confident that Lin can be a championship caliber PG once he has polished and honed his skills.  I think he has a slower learning curve than many other players, but I would venture a guess that he is attempting to "master" this game--not just "get it".  The process will be a bit slower, but the dividends will be greater.  That being said, I think most of us agree that he has shown improvement over the course of this season so maybe that is a good sign...

 

I can't imagine anything but recognition on his own part every time he jumps to pass and ends up turning it over.  He knows it.  He'll learn.  It's not like he has top notch guys cutting into the passing lanes that know how to get open, catch the pass, and finish.  They're learning too.

 

I think we should definitely keep him until his contract is up (barring CP3 coming to town).  I think 2015 Lin will be considerably better than this version--and this version wasn't bad.

 

I do agree with this, Lin basically had his rookie year and if a rookie came out and did what he did and showing improvement during the season on outside shooting, lessening the turnovers, its a good thing. I'm on the fence though, but I agree we need to give him some time. It would be ironic if he somehow develop into a great PG and we released him twice without giving him enough time. Worst case scenario we have a pg who can take us to the playoffs the next 2 years and everybody gets playoff experience and Houston get loads of exposure and $$$

Found an interesting stat on the last 2 minutes of the game.

 

Harden Clutch time effective:

Harden: 25.7% FG%. 18.2% 3FG% harden is 9 for 35

Lin: 77.8% FG%. 75% 3FG% Lin is 7 for 9 .

 

http://stats.nba.com...ge=100&pageNo=1

I agree that Lin creates havoc like westbrook does, but Lin is a smarter player and doesn't put up a lot of bad shots. His turnovers can be argued that sometimes he takes chances with his passes. A good example is Beverley who doesn't turn the ball over but rarely creates a lot of his assists through his play. Usually his assists are from good ball movement.

 

However Lins ability to keep the dribble alive doesn't fit Mchales philosophy and based on his treatment of Lin when he struggles with turnovers or poor shooting, he gets taken out of the game, even though he would have 6 assists after 1,5 quarters.

 

Lin had 3 good games in a row, and then he had one poor game, and he gets taken out of the game early and suddenly Bev gets the minutes. Mchale has no trust in Lin and doesn't seem to like him as a player, this is just based on the past 6 games including the indiana game tonight.

Obviously you need an elite player to be a contender and we have that, but we are a pretender until that elite player commits to defence, name one elite player who has won purely on scoring? You can't have half a player on defence and expect to be an elite team. Melo is one of the hardest player to defend against, but in the past he never cared about defence, and look where that took him? He was considered to be James equal offensively but the defence is the main difference.

 

Harden is a top 5 scorer, but defensively he takes too many plays off. Other rockets players may have a bad day, because they are limited, but they almost always commit give their best effort. If Harden scores 2 points on one side because of his energy with the ball and then ignores his players on the defensive side and that player scores 2 points, its just doesn't give us an edge right?

 

Harden deserves to be in the MVP discussion, he has had a great season, but it doesn't mean that he has his flaws. I'm looking longterm for us to be a contender and not a pretender. We have seen him play excellent defence on James, he doesn't even have to play excellent, just stand next to the other SG so they can't have an uncontested 3. The issue is that when he struggles offensively, his points doesn't override his defensive deficiencies/effort.

 

The reason no one has shown that they can play the minutes is because harden plays 40 minutes a game, therefore 8 minutes are split between garcia and anderson at the minute. I actually think Anderson has done well when he has been given the oppurturnity.

 

Harden is a future MVP, at least I believe he will be. I just think we should be able to look at his flaws and not be blinded by the great things he do night in and night out. At the moment their is the elite in James, Paul, Durant and used to be Kobe. The former 3 will be around for a long time, and Harden needs to pick up the defence to become in that elite group. Look at Durant, and even Melo seems to realize that you won't win the championship without it. You will just be anohter Iverson, Nash, Reggie Miller etc.