68 replies to this topic

[rockets best fan]

stephen: I understand all your reservations about cousins. I really do, but the kings have handled this kid wrong from day one. I feel if he were on a team where he wasn't the alpha dog, where he would have to earn his minutes, where he would have a father figure instead of someone trying to be his friend it might change him. cousins is like a kid in that he will get away with as much as you let him. the kings have tried to befriend cousin. that's not what he needs. he needs a military dad. one who does not accept the bullsh^t. does cousins game need work.....YES. will we be taking a chance the light bulb may never come on .....YES. is his talent level still worth the gamble........YES. cousins is like a ship with no rutter. he simply needs guidance, someone that will be a rutter, steer him to the golden path. I think houston can do that. I hear the naysayers saying mc hale and co. haven't had a track history of doing this b4 ie the lowry situation. you can't save every player situation, but hear is where these 2 problems are different. lowry was a mature nba player who got offended because he felt mc hale treated him like a kid (disrespected him). cousins is a kid who has no choice but to accept authority. cousins does not yet know how to be an nba pro. he needs to be taught. now let me be clear in this area also, cousins is not worth losing major pieces in this team. there is a point where doing a deal would be to much. a lot depends on what the kings want in return for cousins. we already have some very promising bigs so it's not like we are desparate, but if we could pull off a deal where we give up frindge pieces and draft picks.......we have to be willing to accept that risk. the reward just might be awesome and awesome is what you need to win championships.

[redfaithful]

Bringing Lowry into this conversation made me think what went wrong for him and how he got to where he is now - watching Calderon doing magic for Toronto. My guess (no real info to back it up) is that he wasn't interested in learning from the coaching stuff. He sure put up the numbers early on, and again this year, but to be a really successful player in the NBA you need to constantly come up with new stuff, otherwise teams will study you and take away what you do. For this process to work the players must get all the help they can from the coaches, and if you don't have the "I'll take all you can coach me" attitude, existing skills will be enough only for short stretches. That's why Rockets current roster seems so promising - everyone seem to embrace this attitude, and that very well could be why Lowry is not here anymore.

Going back to Cousins - one of the most important questions is therefore how eager is he to learn? Obviously it's not working with the Kings, but is it because of the surroundings or is it because he doesn't have the proper attitude? I think that's the nature of the gamble discussed here.

[thejohnnygold]

OK, I have not supported this idea at all; yet, I still went to ESPN's trade machine just now and worked out this beauty:

http://espn.go.com/n...tradeId=cv6zogo

Would it be worth it if we got Taj Gibson (on the cheap no less) as well as Cousins?

Chicago gets better. Atlanta gets better in my opinion. Sacramento gets rid of Cousins while adding size to their roster thus getting better (addition by subtraction really).

I still say if Cousins comes over he should go straight to D-League until he feels a little less entitled. I hate to say it, but if I were Rockets GM I think I make this trade.....I feel dirty.

[thejohnnygold]

I do realize that this deal never happens because Atlanta probably doesn't swap Smith for Deng and T. Jones' potential....but otherwise I think it could happen....

[thejohnnygold]

OK, after playing with the trade machine I have decided that I don't want to acquire taj gibson. I also doubt that Sacramento trades us cousins straight up for aldrich and PPat. I just wasted an hour of my life. I have come full circle....except that after seeing JJ Hickson has blossomed after leaving sactown for portland....it makes me wonder if all this change of scenery talk has some merit.....

[rockets best fan]

thejohnnygold: lol.... am I winning you over? now back to cousins....clearly there are teams who manage well and those who don't have a clue. the kings are one of the teams who don't have a clue. the maloof brothers are competeing with jordan for worse owners in the league. the problem with this team starts at the top. they have not given the team stability or direction. not offering the players excuses, but it's hard to get behind a team with so little vision. its unclear if they really want to win or have more interest in just filling the seats. heck they don't even know where they will be playing in 2 years. when david stern won't support you( the latest arena deal fallout) I think it speaks volumes about what type of garbage is going on

[kjunfood]

I think Cousins is poison with his attitude, but maybe the coaching staff can change him around. Maybe not. If all RBF is saying is that he'd pull the trigger on a Cousins trade where we only gave up fringe players/picks...then wow. Yes, I would do that in a heartbeat. No major pieces gone, just players most would be okay parting with, for DeMarcus Cousins? Yes, yes please again. Even if his attitude doesn't get better after a year or something, his talent should still make him probably just AS valuable a trading chip as the fringe players we traded away.

Now if we're talking about crucial Rockets players for Cousins...then I start wondering...

ps - KLove > DCousins imo

[Ostrow]

Interesting new story on ESPN about trading Cousins today http://insider.espn....mod_nba_xxx_xxx
I'm not going to put the whole article but:
With the holidays in the rearview mirror, it's time to count a new set of shopping days. Thursday marks seven weeks until the Feb. 21 NBA trade deadline, and the most interesting name potentially on the market is Sacramento center DeMarcus Cousins. In his Weekend Dime, our Marc Stein reported that the Kings organization remains divided on the Cousins question, with president Geoff Petrie favoring a trade, while ownership prefers to hang on to the talented but troubled big man despite a recent confrontation with coach Keith Smart.


On Sunday, Kentucky Sports Radio offered a list of potential destinations. Reportedly, Cousins was told that Boston, Charlotte, Dallas and Orlando are the most likely trade partners, with Detroit, Houston and Washington less likely. To evaluate these possibilities, I turned to the long-term projections generated by my SCHOENE Projection System based on similar players at the same age. After coming up with a reasonable trade scenario for each team, I ranked the potential offers based on the expected Wins Above Replacement Player they could offer the Kings over the remainder of this season and the following three
The Rockets ended up having the 2nd best deal in terms of WAR behind DAL w/ Collison, Crowder, Wright
Rockets: Marcus Morris and Greg Smith
(24.0 WARP)

Even after dealing for James Harden, the Rockets could still put together a competitive offer for Cousins thanks to their frontcourt depth. Sacramento could probably take its pick of any two bigs on the Houston roster besides starting center Omer Asik. Statistically, the best duo would be Morris and Smith. In his second season, Morris has blossomed after moving to power forward, stretching the floor from the position by making nearly 40 percent of his 3-point attempts. The Kings could eventually give him another try on the wing if former college teammate Thomas Robinson emerges as a starter at the 4. The undrafted Smith, plucked by the Rockets from the D-League, is locked up for the minimum through 2013-14. He has impressed off the bench this season, using his strength and soft touch around the basket to make up for being undersized. Smith's 65.7 percent 2-point shooting ranks third among regular players, and he's also capable on the glass.

[Rahat Huq]

Smith and Morris for Cousins? You'd probably have to take that risk.

[phaketrash]

I'm on the fence about Cousins, but even I'd throw more than just Smith and Morris to SAC for him haha.

[thejohnnygold]

There is no doubting his talent, but my concern is how well he can set screens for Harden and Lin....It seems that Asik excels at this which is paramount to our offense at this point. In addition, Cousins requires a certain amount of touches to be effective while Asik plays off of what is already happening. In my opinion, The Rockets have constructed a team that suits the talent we have. I am not sure Cousins fits into that scheme....granted, schemes can change.

I would also add this. Morris and Smith are both still on an upswing. I don't think either has hit their ceiling. Smith, in particular, has room to evolve due to the limited minutes he sees.

At this point, I have shelved the idea of trading for Cousins....not because of any red flags, but because I honestly am not sure he fits with this team. The guys we already have certainly do. If this team were to add anything I would want more rebounding and shot blocking from the PF....This is something we lack due to our Stretch 4 approach....either we live with it or get a post-up 4 that will fight for more rebounds. I like Asik for now.

[Ostrow]

I think you would absolutely have to do that deal. In a heartbeat. And if you are looking for a post-up 4 who rebounds... Cousins? I'm not saying Cousins is my favorite player. But, he is a top-10 4/5 talent, and for two guys who I like but will never be stars, that kind of deal seems like a no brainer. A starting line-up of Lin-Harden-Parsons-Cousins-Asik with a bench of Patterson-Delfino-Douglas could do some damage. Meanwhile D-Mo develops and eventually you have a big man rotation of Asik-Cousins-D-Mo where all of them can play some 5 and two can play the 4. Leaves the door open for some smallball Parsons 4.

I'm on the fence about Cousins, but even I'd throw more than just Smith and Morris to SAC for him haha.

I was shocked when I read this because it seemed like very little. Smith has looked nice, and Morris has really improved so far this year, but really? That's all.

And, to connect a third topic why don't we throw White in here too... lol

[thejohnnygold]

And, to connect a third topic why don't we throw White in here too... lol

Haha....he would kill ANY deal right now....couldn't trade him for a sack of cheeseburgers.

I am reluctant to trade Smith or Morris....I like them above any other PF's we currently have. Until Motie produces on the floor his value is only projected--and like the rest of you I am dying to see it.

As for Cousins being the "rebounding defensive 4"...his numbers do not support that. He averages 16 pts., 10 boards, and 1 block on a bad team where he is the best player. Anderson Varejao nets 14 and 14 for the cavs. Cousins' numbers aren't bad but I don't think he is that much better, performance-wise, than who he would be replacing.

[rockets best fan]

smith and morris...........hmmm. I have a problem with smith being in the deal. this kid is talented I prefer hanging on to him. I know you have to give up something to get something, but it's hard to decide which big should go without having seen them all. we have seen smith and I like what I see. morris I can live with, but not smith.

[phaketrash]

@johnny

But isn't Varejao the best player on a bad team as well? And Varejao is having the best season of his career, at age 30. Cousins is 22. That comparison sort of just makes me want him more hahaha.

[rockets best fan]

the more I think about a trade for cousins the more I'm starting to lean against it. I still like cousins talent wise problem is who can we give up in an acceptable trade for the rockets. we have some bigs we can trade, but the ones we want to give up ain't gonna be the ones the kings want. if we can pull off a trade with some combination of morris,aldrich,patterson,white and draft considerations i'm for it, but outside of that I don't know. we have a nice stable of young high ceiling bigs right now. I kinda want to see what we have play out too.

[phaketrash]

We seem to be really risk averse when it comes to being Rockets fans or something lol. I think we over-emphasize the "potential" of our young players, and I'm not sure why. It isn't like we've developed an unknown into an all star any time recently. We've gotten some great gems, but they're role players. It reminds me of the trade for Harden, when people were upset we were giving up the Toronto pick and Lamb for Harden...saying either of those 2 things may one day become what Harden already is. That sort of doesn't make sense to me lol.

I like Greg Smith and DMo, and Cousins is no where near as sure of a thing as Harden is (I personally thought the Harden deal was fantastic for us and loved him from the start)...but Cousins is more of a sure thing than Greg Smith or DMo right now. Both are young. I'd always take the bet with better odds and less risk. A large counter-argument against that though is Cousins comes with a lot of risk, given his uhh...unappealing personality.

[thejohnnygold]

@johnny But isn't Varejao the best player on a bad team as well? And Varejao is having the best season of his career, at age 30. Cousins is 22. That comparison sort of just makes me want him more hahaha.

You have a point; although, I would say kyrie irving is the best player for the Cavs. What I am saying is Cousins doesn't appear, to me, to be as big of an upgrade at the position as we want him to be. On any given night, either Parsons, Patterson, or Morris seems to put up similar, if not better numbers. A bonus is that morris and parsons can play the SF position. Also, they are all young and improving--like Cousins, but without the bad attitude.

Right now, I am leaning back towards Josh Smith....I have grown to like him as an acquisition for the Rockets. I think he fits our offense, personnel, enhances that position, and affords us the ability to create more mismatches on offense and defense.

[sircharles]

cousions will be a top 5 center in the next 3 years, guaranteed. only one untouchable is harden.

[Ostrow]

Parson and Morris can play SF but Cousins can play C. I'd rather have that personally. I'm not sold on Josh Smith being the guy. He is a tweener who can't really shoot. If we're looking for a SF I want someone who can shoot.
As for Cousins, I like have a guy I know if going to get 10 rebounds a game. He is not a shot blocker, but if he can play some position D he doesn't need to be. I'm not saying you give up the farm for him, but for any two of the PFs I think you have to make that move. He is a proven commodity in the league and I'd rather have that than potential. And, he still has a lot of room to grow.