29 replies to this topic

[bboley24]

Yeah.  I was blown away by the front page of ESPN.  Can you imagine another 5 years without a superstar???

Does anyone have the insider article?  I am intrigued!

[slick shoes]

@majik19 where you at, man? 

[majik19]

haha, link, : http://espn.go.com/n...s-problems-nba�

 

Not going to post the whole article, but here's most of it. Lots of interesting nuggets in here.

 

per Kevin Pelton:

 

As preposterous as it sounds, trading Harden might be the only way to fix a broken team.

 

Same players, different results

The chemistry issues are confusing because Houston's roster is largely the same as last season's, when the team won 56 games and two playoff series. After Morey reacquired Josh Smith in a January trade, the only Rockets player who saw more than 50 minutes of action in the 2015 postseason and is now elsewhere is backup point guard Pablo Prigioni.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, the calculated gamble Houston made trading for Lawson looks like a mistake. After spending part of his summer in a court-mandated alcohol rehab program after multiple DUIs, Lawson hasn't been the same player he was with the Denver Nuggets. He quickly lost his starting job, and, according to NBA.com/Stats data tracking, the Rockets have been outscored by 6.7 points per 100 possessions with him on the court -- a similar net rating to the imploding Phoenix Suns (minus 7.3 points per 100 possessions).

 

Nonetheless, Houston's issues go far beyond Lawson. With him on the bench, the Rockets are outscoring opponents, but by a middling 1.2 points per 100 possessions -- far worse than last season's plus-3.7 mark.

Lawson also can't be blamed much for Houston's defensive decline. The Rockets have allowed a 106.1 defensive rating with the struggling point guard watching from the sideline, good for a tie for 23rd in the league defensively. (Houston is 28th overall at 106.4 points allowed per 100 possessions, ahead of three teams -- the Brooklyn Nets, L.A. Lakers and Suns -- with a combined 39 wins at the break.)

 

For all Harden's offensive prowess and the Rockets' vaunted emphasis on smart shot selection, last season's team won with stingy defense. Despite playing 41 games without Howard, Houston allowed just 100.5 points per 100 possessions in 2014-15, good for sixth best in the league.

 

Taking a closer look at what's wrong with the Rockets' defense means we have to point the finger at The Beard.

 

Harden's disappearing defensive effort

 

.... His defensive effort improved to acceptable and possibly even good levels, a major reason the Rockets were so effective as a team defensively.

Whatever the reason -- Harden has pointed to an offseason ankle injury, which McHale said this week on TNT's "Inside the NBA" caused Harden to come into camp overweight -- that improvement has not carried over this season.

Houston has allowed 4.4 more points per 100 possessions this season with Harden on the court compared with when he's on the bench, undermining much of his offensive value. The Rockets' defense is even worse when Harden doesn't have Howard protecting the rim behind him. Houston's 108.7 defensive rating in those 909 minutes would be the league's worst, per NBA.com/Stats tracking. The Rockets defend at almost a league average clip when Howard plays but not Harden.

 

Houston Defensive Ratings

PLAYERS DRTG RANK

Just Howard 104.2 18

Both 106.5 27

Just Harden 108.7 30

 

Houston's poor transition defense can also be traced to Harden's presence. Per NBA.com/Stats, the Rockets allow 14.7 fast-break points per 48 minutes with Harden on the court (a rate that would be sixth worst in the NBA) and just 11.9 with him on the bench (13th best in the league).

... SportVU tracking on NBA.com/Stats does match the observation that Harden's lax defense is giving up open shots. Opponents have made 46.7 percent of their attempts with Harden as the primary defender, as compared with 44.7 percent overall on the same type of shots. Last season, players shot 1.6 percentage points worse than their usual average with Harden as a primary defender.

 

Harden argued early this season that he was playing too many minutes, surely a factor in his effort level on defense. But we know that he's capable of carrying a heavy offensive load and still competing on D because he did it last season, when he finished second in MVP voting. And that's precisely what makes the idea of trading Harden so difficult to swallow.

 

Morey's dilemma

Any moves the Rockets make at the deadline -- involving Howard or any of his other teammates -- are likely to be futile if Harden is the real underlying issue.

Regardless, Houston has a good chance of claiming a playoff spot because the Blazers have a more difficult schedule in the second half of the season. Simulations based on ESPN's Basketball Power Index show the Rockets reaching the postseason about two-thirds of the time.

But, as a likely low seed, Houston is no longer a title contender. The Rockets will probably have to go through Golden State, San Antonio or Oklahoma City just to win one round, never mind getting to the conference finals again. Since Morey's goal is to win a title, that leaves him in a tough spot.

Potential Harden trades

There's no single obvious trade fit for Harden, but the star-hungry Boston Celtics could offer All-Star Isaiah Thomas to replace his shot creation, cap relief with David Lee's expiring contract and perhaps one of the coming picks they're due from the Nets to give the Rockets a chance at another star.

If Houston believes The possible Harden trades

 

Trade Machine Trades:

• Boston Celtics

• Los Angeles Lakers

• Denver Nuggets

• Orlando Magic

And there are at least two lottery teams that seem hungry to get better now. The Nuggets could build a package around Danilo Gallinari,Gary Harris and draft picks. Likewise, the Orlando Magic could offer Victor Oladipo, Aaron Gordonand picks.

 

But none of those packages delivers the Rockets a surefire top-10 player... Dealing Harden for anything less than another superstar could leave the Rockets back in a spot similar to the one they were in before they got him.

At the same time, no matter his offensive success, Harden simply isn't performing like a superstar or a top-10 player right now. If his current frustration isn't enough to get Harden to expend effort on defense, who's to say he will be able to summon it up in the future?

If he can't, Houston is better off grabbing value now while other teams might believe they can get last season's version of Harden.

Edited by majik19, 12 February 2016 - 05:12 PM.

[majik19]

My personal opinion - can't give up on Harden yet. But Morey needs to seriously re-tool the roster around Harden and Capela. Harden is young enough to build and develop a new team around. Howard is not. 

 

Morey swung for the fences on the first team (and surely won't quit with Durant being available this offseason) he built around Harden. Now he probably has a better understanding of what limitations his superstar has. 

 

I would like to point to the Carmelo Anthony trade a few years back.

 

Right now, Harden is essentially Carmelo Anthony on the Nuggets.

The Nuggets made what turned out to be a very good trade to the Knicks, and yet, they still don't have a star and it's held them down, and they're in the lottery again, with no way out. 

I feel like that would be us, if we traded Harden. 

 

The scary part is that the Knicks then tried to build a team around Carmelo, and also failed. But I'll chalk that up to the Knicks being the Knicks.

 

Now, I do have one interesting option:

What about a superstar swap? What about Harden for Cousins? 

 

Of course, there is no proof that Cousins is a championship player either (but is that because of being on the Kings?) But at least we wouldn't be trading a dollar for 3 or 4 quarters. 

[majik19]

Now, I do have one interesting option:

What about a superstar swap? What about Harden for Cousins? 

 

 

Or a second one: Blake Griffin for Harden?

 

Griffin would have the same spacing issues with Howard that he has with Jordan (though he has become a much improved long jumper shooter), and it's unclear if he has a true spot in today's NBA (doesn't protect the rim, but can't shoot 3s). But I feel like he could become a super Draymond Green on the right team. 

Edited by majik19, 12 February 2016 - 06:58 PM.

[Willk]

Or a second one: Blake Griffin for Harden?

Griffin would have the same spacing issues with Howard that he has with Jordan (though he has become a much improved long jumper shooter), and it's unclear if he has a true spot in today's NBA (doesn't protect the rim, but can't shoot 3s). But I feel like he could become a super Draymond Green on the right team.

This would be an interesting trade. I believe griffin has 3 point range and could develop it in an offense where he would be forced to shoot them. He is also a good play maker. It's interesting that trade machine has the rockets as 6 games worse with this trade.

[Jatman20]

I'm open minded.....I'm not against trading Harden if the Rockets get a star closer in return. I just want to make it clear that I'm not against offensive systems, "per se". I'm just against the Rockets being boxed and packaged into one style, "Only". Bruce Lee Philosophy:

[Bruce Lee's Philosophy. Posted on Oct, 19, 2002 by Shawn Olson]
The logic of Lee’s philosophy, which he uneasily labeled jeet kune do (he was cautious of giving his philosophy a title for fear of its crystallization into yet another style), is quite simple: "The art of Jeet Kune Do is simply to simplify.” The martial artist must ask two questions. 1) What is it that I want to accomplish? 2) What is the quickest, most efficient and effective means?

Use of parts or any of all styles being an option.

[thejohnnygold]

I'm open minded.....I'm not against trading Harden if the Rockets get a star closer in return. I just want to make it clear that I'm not against offensive systems, "per se". I'm just against the Rockets being boxed and packaged into one style, "Only". Bruce Lee Philosophy:

[Bruce Lee's Philosophy. Posted on Oct, 19, 2002 by Shawn Olson]
The logic of Lee’s philosophy, which he uneasily labeled jeet kune do (he was cautious of giving his philosophy a title for fear of its crystallization into yet another style), is quite simple: "The art of Jeet Kune Do is simply to simplify.” The martial artist must ask two questions. 1) What is it that I want to accomplish? 2) What is the quickest, most efficient and effective means?

Use of parts or any of all styles being an option.

 

"Be water my friend".  Another quote from Bruce.  No one is calling for an "only" on offense.  Quite the contrary, despite the struggle to convey this idea.  Like water, a motion offense can take any form.  It can adapt to whatever it needs to.

 

The "only" is what I am currently railing against.

 

It's simple human nature.  All of these guys are good basketball players and they just want to play ball.  Now, when you play with James Harden on the Rockets the game loses it's fun because you are no longer playing basketball--you are filling a role.  You spend most of the game watching James hot dog on offense and plain dog it on defense.  Honestly, I couldn't do it.

 

Who here would continue to play basketball if 90% of what you were allowed to do on the court was stand in the corner and wait to shoot a 3?  It kills morale.  Morey hasn't found an equation for that yet, but he needs to.

 

I'd like an offense that is team oriented beyond 4 guys who "fit" around 1.  Our role players aren't "good enough" because our offense requires a talent like Harden to be able to score.

 

Moving on, it sickens me every time I hear Harden talk about not being able to exert himself on defense because he's tired.  Seriously, everyone stop right now and really think about what he is saying there.  Think about the validity of that excuse.  A pro athlete.  A physical specimen.  In his prime.  With one job to do every day: exercise...practice...improve whatever part of your game needs improvement.  Hmmmm....

 

James isn't saying, "I can't"....he's saying, "I won't".  In like manner, I'm not saying we can't win a championship with James Harden....I'm saying we won't.

[txtdo1411]

I'd be against it for anyone/thing we could realistically get back. Harden is flawed, but I'd roll the dice and try bringing in a new coach and system before giving up on him. I feel like he is at least owed that given what he has done up to this season. Even this season I still don't know offensively how much blame I put on him. Everyone excluding Harden is fairly offensively challenged, and our offense is still in the top 10 in the league. It's kind of a chicken and egg dilemma for me in regards to the offense. Does everyone stand around because they know Harden is going to ISO, or does Harden ISO because everyone is standing around. How willing is Dwight to run the PnR? It seems like when Capela comes in we run it much more often. Defensively he has been a train wreck, but in my opinion, that is more a sum of all parts rather than one person. I'd say Dwight, Ariza, and Beverely are still above average defenders, but the system seems flawed, and everyone else is below average defensively. Not giving him a pass or anything, but a share of responsibility lays at everyone's feet for the poor defense. 

 

Now maybe his attitude just brings everyone down that much. Maybe after all the money and fame, it just got to his head, and now he is just a cocky prick that nobody wants to play with. I don't know how to measure that. I'm not in or around the locker room, so I can just speculate based on what I do know. I know he was/is still fairly liked by his peers. I know that it never seemed to be an issue in the past. I do believe he intentionally forced McHale out for whatever reason. I just don't know, because I'm not around the team or front office. Morey knows how difficult it is to land an elite player, so he is going to do everything he can to keep Harden. At the same time, I don't believe he is naive, so if he is seeing or hearing Harden single-handedly kill chemistry and morale, I would think he would start trying to make moves to fix the issue. 

 

So basically this whole post just says I don't have near enough information as a fan to say whether I would trade Harden or not. From the outside looking in, I would not. I still see an elite offensive talent, and believe a little more structure and accountability would help hide his flaws. I think we should bring in a coach that could better handle him, and actually put an offensive system in place. I would give him one more year with a new coach and system, and re-evaluate next season. 

[Willk]

"Be water my friend".  Another quote from Bruce.  No one is calling for an "only" on offense.  Quite the contrary, despite the struggle to convey this idea.  Like water, a motion offense can take any form.  It can adapt to whatever it needs to.

 

The "only" is what I am currently railing against.

 

It's simple human nature.  All of these guys are good basketball players and they just want to play ball.  Now, when you play with James Harden on the Rockets the game loses it's fun because you are no longer playing basketball--you are filling a role.  You spend most of the game watching James hot dog on offense and plain dog it on defense.  Honestly, I couldn't do it.

 

Who here would continue to play basketball if 90% of what you were allowed to do on the court was stand in the corner and wait to shoot a 3?  It kills morale.  Morey hasn't found an equation for that yet, but he needs to.

 

I'd like an offense that is team oriented beyond 4 guys who "fit" around 1.  Our role players aren't "good enough" because our offense requires a talent like Harden to be able to score.

 

Moving on, it sickens me every time I hear Harden talk about not being able to exert himself on defense because he's tired.  Seriously, everyone stop right now and really think about what he is saying there.  Think about the validity of that excuse.  A pro athlete.  A physical specimen.  In his prime.  With one job to do every day: exercise...practice...improve whatever part of your game needs improvement.  Hmmmm....

 

James isn't saying, "I can't"....he's saying, "I won't".  In like manner, I'm not saying we can't win a championship with James Harden....I'm saying we won't.

JG -

Who are these good basketball players you are referencing?

Harden - definitely

Howard - definitely

Beverley - average at best

Ariza - average at best

Brewer - below average

Tjones - below average

Smith - below average

Terry - Below average

Capela - average at best

Lawson - is any good anymore? if he does not have any quickness left, he is a way below average player

DMO - we don't know

KJ - below average

Thornton - below average

Dekker - we do not know

 

So when you say "all of these players are good players" it is inaccurate. The majority of the team is average at best. Everybody has a role on the team and a majority of players have decided they are not going to fill their role. Ariza's role is to be the best wing defender on the roster and to make 3s. Ariza has decided he wanted to more on offense and has completely forgotten to play defense. Before Zach Harper published his article about how he watched all of the transition baskets that the rockets have given up, he had a podcast where he blamed the rockets transition d on Ariza. He said Ariza loafs around on D. Your buddy Coach Nick also sent out a tweet during the last Warriors game that said Ariza is the worst defender around. That is Ariza's job, to play D and he is not even given an effort.

 

Brewer is another person whose job is to play D and he has been absolutely horrible.

 

Howard cannot intimidate anybody anymore. He is unable to contest multiple shots on a single possession anymore. He also has poor fundamentals so he constantly out of position. Also after last years playoffs, where the rockets dominated by playing 2/5 pick and roll, you would think Howard would have decided he would be a pick and roll player instead of a post up player, but that has not happened.

 

Beverley cannot finish around the rim. He has not developed too much in his time in Houston.

 

Tjones has not developed much in his time in Houston.

 

Capela is regressing.

 

Lawson is shell of himself when he was brought to play make.

 

After looking at this it seems that Morey does a terrible job of developing players. He has outright failed at developing players.

 

As far as your comments that it is demoralizing playing with Harden, where is the proof? Do you hangout with co-workers that you absolutely cannot stand? Of course not. You constantly see teammates hanging out with Harden. He is well liked by his peers. Like Calvin Watkins says, Harden is a more than willing passer, but the ball does stick when things go wrong. I would rather have a superstar who is going to try to take control of the game when things are going bad than a superstar who is going to disappear and let Brewer and Ariza take wild shots. There is zero evidence of Harden lowering morale on the team. If you want the rockets to play like the warriors or the spurs, maybe Morey should get good players like the Spurs and the Warriors. Please remind who has Morey drafted again? If your best draft pick has been Chandler Parsons, you are not good at your job.

 

Every great team has fit players around their best players. The Bulls signed Ron Harper, who was great scorer, and told him his job was to chase around PGs so that MJ did not have to. He played that role perfectly and without complaint, but I guess it must have been demoralizing to play with MJ because Harper did not get to shoot as much as he wanted to. Don't you think Danny Green would like to play PNR in San Antonio, but his job is to play D and space the floor. It must be demoralizing to coach Pop. I could list countless role players who have accepted their role. Players like Ariza and Brewer need to fill their role. If they want a bigger role then they need to move on.

 

Feel free to demand a Harden trade. I hope you get it see what happens to the rockets. Morey greatest achievement was trading for Harden and he lucked into it. This organization will be 30 win organization for a long time. Morey will continue to draft his Pat Patts and Joey Dorsey, while missing out on Kawhi Leonards and Jimmy Butlers. Hope you enjoy those teams.

[Rahat Huq]

"Be water my friend".  Another quote from Bruce.  No one is calling for an "only" on offense.  Quite the contrary, despite the struggle to convey this idea.  Like water, a motion offense can take any form.  It can adapt to whatever it needs to.

 

The "only" is what I am currently railing against.

 

It's simple human nature.  All of these guys are good basketball players and they just want to play ball.  Now, when you play with James Harden on the Rockets the game loses it's fun because you are no longer playing basketball--you are filling a role.  You spend most of the game watching James hot dog on offense and plain dog it on defense.  Honestly, I couldn't do it.

 

Who here would continue to play basketball if 90% of what you were allowed to do on the court was stand in the corner and wait to shoot a 3?  It kills morale.  Morey hasn't found an equation for that yet, but he needs to.

 

I'd like an offense that is team oriented beyond 4 guys who "fit" around 1.  Our role players aren't "good enough" because our offense requires a talent like Harden to be able to score.

 

Moving on, it sickens me every time I hear Harden talk about not being able to exert himself on defense because he's tired.  Seriously, everyone stop right now and really think about what he is saying there.  Think about the validity of that excuse.  A pro athlete.  A physical specimen.  In his prime.  With one job to do every day: exercise...practice...improve whatever part of your game needs improvement.  Hmmmm....

 

James isn't saying, "I can't"....he's saying, "I won't".  In like manner, I'm not saying we can't win a championship with James Harden....I'm saying we won't.

Everything you said above is 100% correct.  But damn, I can't bring myself to go through that "wait for a star" phase again.  

[thejohnnygold]

@Willk--in short, I disagree with everything you said.    I don't have proof for anything--just my observations.  I know this team will regress if we trade Harden, but I'd rather have tabula rasa then be locked into the future James Harden promises us.

 

 

Everything you said above is 100% correct.  But damn, I can't bring myself to go through that "wait for a star" phase again.  

 

I hear you.  It doesn't bother me the way it does most.  I guess I'm more of an enjoy-the-journey-not-the-destination sort.  At this point, James Harden is ruining this road trip for me.

 

I think there is a very strong chance to avoid the mediocrity everyone fears.  First, free agency over the next 2-3 years is going to be wacky.  So much has changed.  "Small markets" aren't that small anymore which changes the landscape.  This year's top 2 big men went to San Antonio and Milwaukee, respectively.  Meanwhile, LA had to settle on Roy Hibbert and NY went with Robin Lopez.  Does that happen in the '80's or '90's or even '00's?  I can't recall it ever happening...correct me if I'm wrong.  Oh, and Lebron returned to Cleveland the year before!  (I know, special circumstance)

 

My point is the playing field has been leveled in that regard.  Next, it gives us a chance to step into the modern NBA.  A time will come when sports historians will look back at the "star" period as a sort of dark ages of basketball.  Michael Jordan's (and David Stern's) legacy will be as much about building the league as it was about destroying the game.  Not on purpose and not Jordan's fault.  Teams tried to emulate what they perceived Jordan was doing and the league promoted it.  The reality is, he played within a system that focused on movement and relied on all 5 guys being able to make plays within that framework.  They brought in players that fit the system (note the number of foreign players who understand team and system play.  That '90-'91 squad had none...as they built the team guys like Kukoc, Longley, and Wennington played key roles in the offense.  On any other team, Longley and Wennington don't get off the bench if they make the roster at all.  Does this remind us of anyone else?  Yes it does.)  Combine all that with Jordan's passion, intensity, and talent and you get 6 rings.

 

Other GM's failed to see the macro--all they saw was Jordan's star and then it was the quest to find the next Jordan: Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, Jerry Stackhouse, Kobe (who one could argue lived up to it), Vince Carter, T-Mac, LeBron (he is close), Durant, Wiggins, and all the others I'm forgetting (Stevie Francis!!!  Starbury!!!).  Who needs a coach?  Who needs a system?  Who needs a culture?

 

We were all brain-washed from an early age.  Look at the way everything was promoted.  Even the video games eschewed team play for individual talent.  1 on 1 and 2 on 2 were all the rage.  People didn't want to see Jeff Hornacek quietly averaging 20 ppg playing in Sloan's machine.  No kids on the playground pretended to be Detlef Shrempf nor Chris Mullin.  They wanted to see (and be) David vs. Goliath.  One man who can single-handedly defeat an entire team.  Oddly, over time Jordan's David turned into Goliath.   

 

I believe that it is key for us to find the coach first.  True star players are rare.  Most "star" players are fool's gold.  I'd rather see the Rockets get a head start on building a true team culture rather than chasing false idols.

 

Teams that are ahead of us right now in this pursuit: SA, DAL, GSW, BOS, and ATL.  Teams that might be closer than we think: UTA, NOP, IND, TOR, and MIL.  That puts us a ways behind already.  Which is why a Harden trade would be the boost we need.  Bring in the "coach of the future" and let's build this thing.  We can trade Howard too, or just let him walk and use his cap space on something useful.

 

I still think D-Mo is a stud if he can get healthy.  Capela has some potential.  McDaniels...why can't he get on the court?  Then consider that Troy Daniels, Covington, Black, and Christian Wood could all still be here if we weren't ring chasing.  That's a fun team--I don't care who you are.  It's the kind of team that would take to a coach, a system, and a culture.  With D-Mo as an offensive anchor and that kind of 3 point shooting and athleticism that team could be amazing.  Maybe Ish Smith makes that roster last year and is dropping double digit dimes down here instead of up in Philly.

 

With a winning culture in place and a group like that it should be easy to attract, not a star, but the right kind of talent that makes the team better as a whole.  Stars are anointed by the media based off of success--usually individual success.  They are promoted by the league and its sponsors.  Very, very few of them have championship rings.  They are false idols.

 

Sorry for the long-winded, idealistic ranting.  In short, I wouldn't call it a "wait for a star" phase.  I'd call it a "building a foundation" phase.  That is the opportunity we would have...if we choose to take it.  Who knows, perhaps a star will emerge as we grow and develop.  That, or we score big with one of our likely-to-be-good draft picks.

 

Look no further than Boston.  They are one major piece away and have the assets to go get it either in trade or in the draft.  They have a coach, a culture, and a system they are developing.  I would actually love to see them go after DeMarcus Cousins.  I think he would buy into what they're doing and be a great fit.  I think Nerlens Noel would be a good fit too.  Whiteside?  Maybe.  I think Coach Stevens wants more skills in his bigs.  He might make an exception for a defensive talent like Whiteside.

 

Boston went from being star-laden to bottom-feeder and are now at the cusp of greatness again all while making the journey pretty interesting and only posting 2 losing seasons in the process.  Not too shabby.

[MrLobble]

I wish we could trade Harden for Westbrook... It would be like night and day... His insane and consistent intensity level is exactly what our feel sorry-for-themselves Rockets need...

Sn: idk why Morey wouldn't sign Fredette to a 10 day contract... How could he be worse then our brick chucking reserves? 🤔

[isaacjunk]

@Willk--in short, I disagree with everything you said.    I don't have proof for anything--just my observations.  I know this team will regress if we trade Harden, but I'd rather have tabula rasa then be locked into the future James Harden promises us.

 

 

 

I hear you.  It doesn't bother me the way it does most.  I guess I'm more of an enjoy-the-journey-not-the-destination sort.  At this point, James Harden is ruining this road trip for me.

 

I think there is a very strong chance to avoid the mediocrity everyone fears.  First, free agency over the next 2-3 years is going to be wacky.  So much has changed.  "Small markets" aren't that small anymore which changes the landscape.  This year's top 2 big men went to San Antonio and Milwaukee, respectively.  Meanwhile, LA had to settle on Roy Hibbert and NY went with Robin Lopez.  Does that happen in the '80's or '90's or even '00's?  I can't recall it ever happening...correct me if I'm wrong.  Oh, and Lebron returned to Cleveland the year before!  (I know, special circumstance)

 

My point is the playing field has been leveled in that regard.  Next, it gives us a chance to step into the modern NBA.  A time will come when sports historians will look back at the "star" period as a sort of dark ages of basketball.  Michael Jordan's (and David Stern's) legacy will be as much about building the league as it was about destroying the game.  Not on purpose and not Jordan's fault.  Teams tried to emulate what they perceived Jordan was doing and the league promoted it.  The reality is, he played within a system that focused on movement and relied on all 5 guys being able to make plays within that framework.  They brought in players that fit the system (note the number of foreign players who understand team and system play.  That '90-'91 squad had none...as they built the team guys like Kukoc, Longley, and Wennington played key roles in the offense.  On any other team, Longley and Wennington don't get off the bench if they make the roster at all.  Does this remind us of anyone else?  Yes it does.)  Combine all that with Jordan's passion, intensity, and talent and you get 6 rings.

 

Other GM's failed to see the macro--all they saw was Jordan's star and then it was the quest to find the next Jordan: Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, Jerry Stackhouse, Kobe (who one could argue lived up to it), Vince Carter, T-Mac, LeBron (he is close), Durant, Wiggins, and all the others I'm forgetting (Stevie Francis!!!  Starbury!!!).  Who needs a coach?  Who needs a system?  Who needs a culture?

 

We were all brain-washed from an early age.  Look at the way everything was promoted.  Even the video games eschewed team play for individual talent.  1 on 1 and 2 on 2 were all the rage.  People didn't want to see Jeff Hornacek quietly averaging 20 ppg playing in Sloan's machine.  No kids on the playground pretended to be Detlef Shrempf nor Chris Mullin.  They wanted to see (and be) David vs. Goliath.  One man who can single-handedly defeat an entire team.  Oddly, over time Jordan's David turned into Goliath.   

 

I believe that it is key for us to find the coach first.  True star players are rare.  Most "star" players are fool's gold.  I'd rather see the Rockets get a head start on building a true team culture rather than chasing false idols.

 

Teams that are ahead of us right now in this pursuit: SA, DAL, GSW, BOS, and ATL.  Teams that might be closer than we think: UTA, NOP, IND, TOR, and MIL.  That puts us a ways behind already.  Which is why a Harden trade would be the boost we need.  Bring in the "coach of the future" and let's build this thing.  We can trade Howard too, or just let him walk and use his cap space on something useful.

 

I still think D-Mo is a stud if he can get healthy.  Capela has some potential.  McDaniels...why can't he get on the court?  Then consider that Troy Daniels, Covington, Black, and Christian Wood could all still be here if we weren't ring chasing.  That's a fun team--I don't care who you are.  It's the kind of team that would take to a coach, a system, and a culture.  With D-Mo as an offensive anchor and that kind of 3 point shooting and athleticism that team could be amazing.  Maybe Ish Smith makes that roster last year and is dropping double digit dimes down here instead of up in Philly.

 

With a winning culture in place and a group like that it should be easy to attract, not a star, but the right kind of talent that makes the team better as a whole.  Stars are anointed by the media based off of success--usually individual success.  They are promoted by the league and its sponsors.  Very, very few of them have championship rings.  They are false idols.

 

Sorry for the long-winded, idealistic ranting.  In short, I wouldn't call it a "wait for a star" phase.  I'd call it a "building a foundation" phase.  That is the opportunity we would have...if we choose to take it.  Who knows, perhaps a star will emerge as we grow and develop.  That, or we score big with one of our likely-to-be-good draft picks.

 

Look no further than Boston.  They are one major piece away and have the assets to go get it either in trade or in the draft.  They have a coach, a culture, and a system they are developing.  I would actually love to see them go after DeMarcus Cousins.  I think he would buy into what they're doing and be a great fit.  I think Nerlens Noel would be a good fit too.  Whiteside?  Maybe.  I think Coach Stevens wants more skills in his bigs.  He might make an exception for a defensive talent like Whiteside.

 

Boston went from being star-laden to bottom-feeder and are now at the cusp of greatness again all while making the journey pretty interesting and only posting 2 losing seasons in the process.  Not too shabby.

I love this line of thinking.  But before blowing it up, I'd see if we could plant an internet meme that spreads like wildfire a la Harden as the Cowboy's D Coordinator....I could be wrong but that seemed to actually work!  Anyone use photoshop?

[Willk]

@Willk--in short, I disagree with everything you said.    I don't have proof for anything--just my observations.  I know this team will regress if we trade Harden, but I'd rather have tabula rasa then be locked into the future James Harden promises us.

 

 

 

I hear you.  It doesn't bother me the way it does most.  I guess I'm more of an enjoy-the-journey-not-the-destination sort.  At this point, James Harden is ruining this road trip for me.

 

I think there is a very strong chance to avoid the mediocrity everyone fears.  First, free agency over the next 2-3 years is going to be wacky.  So much has changed.  "Small markets" aren't that small anymore which changes the landscape.  This year's top 2 big men went to San Antonio and Milwaukee, respectively.  Meanwhile, LA had to settle on Roy Hibbert and NY went with Robin Lopez.  Does that happen in the '80's or '90's or even '00's?  I can't recall it ever happening...correct me if I'm wrong.  Oh, and Lebron returned to Cleveland the year before!  (I know, special circumstance)

 

My point is the playing field has been leveled in that regard.  Next, it gives us a chance to step into the modern NBA.  A time will come when sports historians will look back at the "star" period as a sort of dark ages of basketball.  Michael Jordan's (and David Stern's) legacy will be as much about building the league as it was about destroying the game.  Not on purpose and not Jordan's fault.  Teams tried to emulate what they perceived Jordan was doing and the league promoted it.  The reality is, he played within a system that focused on movement and relied on all 5 guys being able to make plays within that framework.  They brought in players that fit the system (note the number of foreign players who understand team and system play.  That '90-'91 squad had none...as they built the team guys like Kukoc, Longley, and Wennington played key roles in the offense.  On any other team, Longley and Wennington don't get off the bench if they make the roster at all.  Does this remind us of anyone else?  Yes it does.)  Combine all that with Jordan's passion, intensity, and talent and you get 6 rings.

 

Other GM's failed to see the macro--all they saw was Jordan's star and then it was the quest to find the next Jordan: Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, Jerry Stackhouse, Kobe (who one could argue lived up to it), Vince Carter, T-Mac, LeBron (he is close), Durant, Wiggins, and all the others I'm forgetting (Stevie Francis!!!  Starbury!!!).  Who needs a coach?  Who needs a system?  Who needs a culture?

 

We were all brain-washed from an early age.  Look at the way everything was promoted.  Even the video games eschewed team play for individual talent.  1 on 1 and 2 on 2 were all the rage.  People didn't want to see Jeff Hornacek quietly averaging 20 ppg playing in Sloan's machine.  No kids on the playground pretended to be Detlef Shrempf nor Chris Mullin.  They wanted to see (and be) David vs. Goliath.  One man who can single-handedly defeat an entire team.  Oddly, over time Jordan's David turned into Goliath.   

 

I believe that it is key for us to find the coach first.  True star players are rare.  Most "star" players are fool's gold.  I'd rather see the Rockets get a head start on building a true team culture rather than chasing false idols.

 

Teams that are ahead of us right now in this pursuit: SA, DAL, GSW, BOS, and ATL.  Teams that might be closer than we think: UTA, NOP, IND, TOR, and MIL.  That puts us a ways behind already.  Which is why a Harden trade would be the boost we need.  Bring in the "coach of the future" and let's build this thing.  We can trade Howard too, or just let him walk and use his cap space on something useful.

 

I still think D-Mo is a stud if he can get healthy.  Capela has some potential.  McDaniels...why can't he get on the court?  Then consider that Troy Daniels, Covington, Black, and Christian Wood could all still be here if we weren't ring chasing.  That's a fun team--I don't care who you are.  It's the kind of team that would take to a coach, a system, and a culture.  With D-Mo as an offensive anchor and that kind of 3 point shooting and athleticism that team could be amazing.  Maybe Ish Smith makes that roster last year and is dropping double digit dimes down here instead of up in Philly.

 

With a winning culture in place and a group like that it should be easy to attract, not a star, but the right kind of talent that makes the team better as a whole.  Stars are anointed by the media based off of success--usually individual success.  They are promoted by the league and its sponsors.  Very, very few of them have championship rings.  They are false idols.

 

Sorry for the long-winded, idealistic ranting.  In short, I wouldn't call it a "wait for a star" phase.  I'd call it a "building a foundation" phase.  That is the opportunity we would have...if we choose to take it.  Who knows, perhaps a star will emerge as we grow and develop.  That, or we score big with one of our likely-to-be-good draft picks.

 

Look no further than Boston.  They are one major piece away and have the assets to go get it either in trade or in the draft.  They have a coach, a culture, and a system they are developing.  I would actually love to see them go after DeMarcus Cousins.  I think he would buy into what they're doing and be a great fit.  I think Nerlens Noel would be a good fit too.  Whiteside?  Maybe.  I think Coach Stevens wants more skills in his bigs.  He might make an exception for a defensive talent like Whiteside.

 

Boston went from being star-laden to bottom-feeder and are now at the cusp of greatness again all while making the journey pretty interesting and only posting 2 losing seasons in the process.  Not too shabby.

JG - I do not really care if  you agree with me or not. I am not here looking for approval.

 

There are a few points I agree with you about and the majority of things you stated I cannot agree with.

 

I agree that teams like GSW, SAS, DAL, IND, ATL, and BOS have a much better culture than the Rockets. UTA is getting there. The big difference between the Rockets and these teams is that they got their coach and let him design the system they play. Their style of play is not dictated by their GM. The GMs of these get players that fit their coaches systems. This is not happening in Houston. Morey's next coaching hire will tell if wants cede any control to a coach.

 

NOP and MIL are a mess. They are so far from having a good culture is not even funny. Tom Benson meddles too much because he wants to win now instead of building a team that can actually win in a couple of years. Benson has brought over his football GM, Mickey Loomis, to help his basketball GM, Dell Demps. Zach Lowe recently mentioned how other GMs have no idea who to with on trades. Milwaukee is another mess. They were building a good foundation until Jason Kidd requested MCW. Kidd wanted his PG to be able to guard multiple positions like he could. Brandon Knight could not do this. Milwaukee felt with MCW they were going to be an elite defense, which never happened. Because of the bad MCW trade, the Bucks had to look for more scoring. They then made the mistake of letting Zaza Pachulia go and bringing in Greg Monroe. Monroe is an unbelievably bad defender and does not even try to defend (sound familiar). Now there are reports that when Jason Kidd heals, he may not want to coach this team any more. The foundation in Milwaukee is really bad.

 

I have always said MJ was the best and the worst thing that happened to the NBA. He took the NBA to new heights but his legacy is that he ushered in the era of 1 on 1 ball. I grew up in Chicago and watched every Bulls game from 85-98. You can talk about the Bulls system all you want, but in all reality, the Bulls used the triangle in quarters 1-3. As soon as MJ checked in the 4th quarter, it was MJ ISO time. That is why so many of the stars of the recent past like Iverson, Bryant, Marbury, Stevie Franchise, etc... played so much ISO ball. They grew up watching MJ. Phil Jackson being able to get MJ to share the ball in quarters 1-3 was a major accomplishment. There was a hierarchy on the Bulls. Players like Wennington, Longley, Scott Williams, Stacey King all new their roles and never stepped out of their roles unlike the Rockets today. These players wanted to win and realized that their fame and glory would come after winning. A lot the Bulls role players got serious pay days based on what they did with the Bulls.

 

I disagree with you about free agency. Players are not going to leave their current teams unless they are going to a better situation. LMA left Portland because he would have a chance to win a championship immediately. Greg Monroe chose Milwaukee because he had a better chance to win. New York looked like a mess. Also, Robin Lopez might be a better player. Robin Lopez is good ball mover and decent defender. Monroe is just a scorer. He is on the All-hollow points team. Once you get rid of Harden and replace him with the Troy Daniels, Rob Covingtons, and Ish Smiths of the NBA, your team immediately becomes unattractive to FAs. KD is not coming to Houston to play with those type of players. Westbrook is not either. Once you get rid of Harden, you have to build through the draft. You know why LA and NY got free agents in 90s? It is because they had good teams. There is no way Shaq leaves Orlando to go to LA if they do not have good role players like Eddie Jones. He would never have left Orlando to play with a Laker team like they had last year. LAL and NY are about to become the top destinations once again. LAL have a lot of quality young players that are going to look attractive to FAs. in the near future, Houston is not going to compete with a team that has Russell, Randle, Clarkson, and Nance Jr (another pick Morey traded away). Playing with Porzingis is going to look really attractive as well.

 

The roster of DMO, Capela, Daniels, Covington, Smith is going to lose a lot of games and a majority of the losses are going to be blow outs. You may have fun watching blowouts, but I think a majority of fans are not going to like it. The quickest way to establish a winning culture is to win. That is why SAS has such a culture. In year 1 of Robinson and Duncan, they won a championship. From then on Pop could mentor any way he saw fit. GSW has a winning culture now because they won in year 1 of the Steve Kerr era. You have to win to have a winning culture. Brett Brown has been coaching his players correctly, but Philly does not have a winning culture because they do not win.

 

It is interesting that you conclude with the Celts. The Celts are built exactly like the Rockets last year. They have a ball dominant guard who chucks up a lot shots in Thomas. They have a 3 & D wing in Crowder. They have a non-play making good shooting guard in Bradley. They have a bunch of hard working front court players in KO, Johnson, Zeller, Sullinger, and Jerebko. This looks eerily similar to Harden, Ariza, Bev, DMO, Dorsey, and Black.

 

It is amazing how similar Thomas and Harden are. They both are ball dominant guards who typically look for their shot 1st. Look at Isaiah's game logs. He has shot 40% or less in about half of the Celts games. He has many games where he scored 21 points on 19 shots or something similar. It is amazing how much he dribbles on each possession. Couple that with his incredibly bad defense, it is amazing that his teammates are not demoralized by playing with him. Stevens has done a great job of developing a defensive system where they are able to cover up for Thomas' deficiencies. Imagine if Houston had a coach who could do that. Stevens would never let Crowder act like Ariza is acting this year. Stevens would remind Ariza that he was brought in to play D. He would do the same with Brewer. Imagine how good the Rockets would be if Ariza and Brewer came anywhere close to being the defenders they were last year. I am also sure that Tjones would be a much better player under Stevens then he is now. It is also amazing that when Knight, MCW, Dragic, and Thomas were getting traded, that Morey was not able to get Knight or Thomas to lead the 2nd unit.

 

I agree that the Rockets culture needs to change.the 1st step is to get a good a coach and have Morey get out of the coach's way.

[thejohnnygold]

JG - I do not really care if  you agree with me or not. I am not here looking for approval.

 

There are a few points I agree with you about and the majority of things you stated I cannot agree with.

 

I agree that teams like GSW, SAS, DAL, IND, ATL, and BOS have a much better culture than the Rockets. UTA is getting there. The big difference between the Rockets and these teams is that they got their coach and let him design the system they play. Their style of play is not dictated by their GM. The GMs of these get players that fit their coaches systems. This is not happening in Houston. Morey's next coaching hire will tell if wants cede any control to a coach.

 

NOP and MIL are a mess. They are so far from having a good culture is not even funny. Tom Benson meddles too much because he wants to win now instead of building a team that can actually win in a couple of years. Benson has brought over his football GM, Mickey Loomis, to help his basketball GM, Dell Demps. Zach Lowe recently mentioned how other GMs have no idea who to with on trades. Milwaukee is another mess. They were building a good foundation until Jason Kidd requested MCW. Kidd wanted his PG to be able to guard multiple positions like he could. Brandon Knight could not do this. Milwaukee felt with MCW they were going to be an elite defense, which never happened. Because of the bad MCW trade, the Bucks had to look for more scoring. They then made the mistake of letting Zaza Pachulia go and bringing in Greg Monroe. Monroe is an unbelievably bad defender and does not even try to defend (sound familiar). Now there are reports that when Jason Kidd heals, he may not want to coach this team any more. The foundation in Milwaukee is really bad.

 

I have always said MJ was the best and the worst thing that happened to the NBA. He took the NBA to new heights but his legacy is that he ushered in the era of 1 on 1 ball. I grew up in Chicago and watched every Bulls game from 85-98. You can talk about the Bulls system all you want, but in all reality, the Bulls used the triangle in quarters 1-3. As soon as MJ checked in the 4th quarter, it was MJ ISO time. That is why so many of the stars of the recent past like Iverson, Bryant, Marbury, Stevie Franchise, etc... played so much ISO ball. They grew up watching MJ. Phil Jackson being able to get MJ to share the ball in quarters 1-3 was a major accomplishment. There was a hierarchy on the Bulls. Players like Wennington, Longley, Scott Williams, Stacey King all new their roles and never stepped out of their roles unlike the Rockets today. These players wanted to win and realized that their fame and glory would come after winning. A lot the Bulls role players got serious pay days based on what they did with the Bulls.

 

I disagree with you about free agency. Players are not going to leave their current teams unless they are going to a better situation. LMA left Portland because he would have a chance to win a championship immediately. Greg Monroe chose Milwaukee because he had a better chance to win. New York looked like a mess. Also, Robin Lopez might be a better player. Robin Lopez is good ball mover and decent defender. Monroe is just a scorer. He is on the All-hollow points team. Once you get rid of Harden and replace him with the Troy Daniels, Rob Covingtons, and Ish Smiths of the NBA, your team immediately becomes unattractive to FAs. KD is not coming to Houston to play with those type of players. Westbrook is not either. Once you get rid of Harden, you have to build through the draft. You know why LA and NY got free agents in 90s? It is because they had good teams. There is no way Shaq leaves Orlando to go to LA if they do not have good role players like Eddie Jones. He would never have left Orlando to play with a Laker team like they had last year. LAL and NY are about to become the top destinations once again. LAL have a lot of quality young players that are going to look attractive to FAs. in the near future, Houston is not going to compete with a team that has Russell, Randle, Clarkson, and Nance Jr (another pick Morey traded away). Playing with Porzingis is going to look really attractive as well.

 

The roster of DMO, Capela, Daniels, Covington, Smith is going to lose a lot of games and a majority of the losses are going to be blow outs. You may have fun watching blowouts, but I think a majority of fans are not going to like it. The quickest way to establish a winning culture is to win. That is why SAS has such a culture. In year 1 of Robinson and Duncan, they won a championship. From then on Pop could mentor any way he saw fit. GSW has a winning culture now because they won in year 1 of the Steve Kerr era. You have to win to have a winning culture. Brett Brown has been coaching his players correctly, but Philly does not have a winning culture because they do not win.

 

It is interesting that you conclude with the Celts. The Celts are built exactly like the Rockets last year. They have a ball dominant guard who chucks up a lot shots in Thomas. They have a 3 & D wing in Crowder. They have a non-play making good shooting guard in Bradley. They have a bunch of hard working front court players in KO, Johnson, Zeller, Sullinger, and Jerebko. This looks eerily similar to Harden, Ariza, Bev, DMO, Dorsey, and Black.

 

It is amazing how similar Thomas and Harden are. They both are ball dominant guards who typically look for their shot 1st. Look at Isaiah's game logs. He has shot 40% or less in about half of the Celts games. He has many games where he scored 21 points on 19 shots or something similar. It is amazing how much he dribbles on each possession. Couple that with his incredibly bad defense, it is amazing that his teammates are not demoralized by playing with him. Stevens has done a great job of developing a defensive system where they are able to cover up for Thomas' deficiencies. Imagine if Houston had a coach who could do that. Stevens would never let Crowder act like Ariza is acting this year. Stevens would remind Ariza that he was brought in to play D. He would do the same with Brewer. Imagine how good the Rockets would be if Ariza and Brewer came anywhere close to being the defenders they were last year. I am also sure that Tjones would be a much better player under Stevens then he is now. It is also amazing that when Knight, MCW, Dragic, and Thomas were getting traded, that Morey was not able to get Knight or Thomas to lead the 2nd unit.

 

I agree that the Rockets culture needs to change.the 1st step is to get a good a coach and have Morey get out of the coach's way.

 

First, I replied to you the way I did for brevity's sake--it was not a dismissal and not an indication that you want or need approval.

 

You picked two of the teams I said might be closer than we think to getting ahead of us: NOP and MIL.  Might.  I am aware of their situations, and I agree that MIL has made some serious personnel blunders, but they have some good pieces and I think one shrewd move (or two) could turn them around completely.  I disagree that their foundation is bad.  They have quite a few players I would gladly take off their hands: Antetokounmpo, Middleton, Bayless, and Henson.

 

As for NOP....It is difficult to say what's wrong there.  On paper, they are loaded.  I know that Anthony Davis is taking about 60% of his shots from mid-range (where he shoots a low %) and only 30% near the rim (he shoots 70% there).  Somebody should tell Alvin Gentry he has one of the best bigs in the game. 

 

As for our beloved Rockets, I think we both agree that our system is a mess.  I believe our system makes our players appear to be less than they are.  It requires everyone to have a James Harden-level iso game to score.  Why is that?  Because there is no system besides "read and react"  Well, by standing around the read is easy: no one is open, no lanes are open, no cutters are available, nothing is happening, better pass it to James.  James sees the same thing and says, well, I guess I better get Dwight over here to set a screen that he isn't going to roll hard to the rim from so I can crash into people and shoot some more free throws.  Almost anyone would look bad in this "system"  Morey should have gone out and gotten Monta Ellis and Tyreke Evans.  Then we'd have three players who do, more or less, the same thing and this "system" would at least make some sense.  Few teams have enough good 1 on 1 defenders to cover all 3 of those guys.

 

Of course, that does nothing to solve our defensive problems.

 

Now, I appreciate that you are trying to make a point with your comments about a roster made up of D-mo, covington, daniels, etc and the following Boston commentary.  Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, but it comes across pretty snarky and rather than me respecting your words I find them puerile.

 

It's fine if you disagree with my perception of our situation.  I have no proof.  I merely have my own experiences and observations.  If I was in their shoes, I'd hate it.  That's all.  If you want to mock it go ahead, but it does not benefit your position.

 

When you say no free agents would come to a team with the guys I mentioned I feel you are not picturing things the way I am.  That's fine--we clearly disagree in a fundamental way here.  Losing culture?  That will pass soon enough in Philly.  I think they are also closer to figuring things out then people think.  Don't forget, they've got Joel Embiid in the wings plus Christian Wood.  They need to find a real SG (hello, Bradley Beal) and figure out how to use Noel and Okafor together and then watch out.  They've got a very interesting roster and I still can't believe they gave us McDaniels for Canaan.

 

As for Boston, I might compare them to our 2012-13 roster.  That team was fun and scrappy.  Harden was just reaching "star" level.  The ball was shared, we had other players who could break down the defense and guys who could knock down shots.  I think it is an interesting question if we would be better with Lin and Parsons vs. Lawson and Ariza.  Is it even a question?  Which leads me to Morey...

 

I don't think Morey is without blame nor fault.  It is becoming clear he is after his white whale and nothing else matters.  I don't share your views about his ego and the coaching, etc.  At least not yet...I agree that the next hire will say a lot.  I think Morey's star-chasing has been his demise.  I'd like to see him quit and focus on building our culture and developing talent, but I know he's going to give the hard sell to Durant this Summer and most likely walk away empty-handed.  If he hires Brooks as coach to help lure him I will not be pleased.

 

Not necessarily for the same reasons, but we do agree about that first step.  We need a coach and a front office that share a vision--a vision that moves us forward, not backwards.

[txtdo1411]

JG - I do not really care if  you agree with me or not. I am not here looking for approval.

 

There are a few points I agree with you about and the majority of things you stated I cannot agree with.

 

I agree that teams like GSW, SAS, DAL, IND, ATL, and BOS have a much better culture than the Rockets. UTA is getting there. The big difference between the Rockets and these teams is that they got their coach and let him design the system they play. Their style of play is not dictated by their GM. The GMs of these get players that fit their coaches systems. This is not happening in Houston. Morey's next coaching hire will tell if wants cede any control to a coach.

 

NOP and MIL are a mess. They are so far from having a good culture is not even funny. Tom Benson meddles too much because he wants to win now instead of building a team that can actually win in a couple of years. Benson has brought over his football GM, Mickey Loomis, to help his basketball GM, Dell Demps. Zach Lowe recently mentioned how other GMs have no idea who to with on trades. Milwaukee is another mess. They were building a good foundation until Jason Kidd requested MCW. Kidd wanted his PG to be able to guard multiple positions like he could. Brandon Knight could not do this. Milwaukee felt with MCW they were going to be an elite defense, which never happened. Because of the bad MCW trade, the Bucks had to look for more scoring. They then made the mistake of letting Zaza Pachulia go and bringing in Greg Monroe. Monroe is an unbelievably bad defender and does not even try to defend (sound familiar). Now there are reports that when Jason Kidd heals, he may not want to coach this team any more. The foundation in Milwaukee is really bad.

 

I have always said MJ was the best and the worst thing that happened to the NBA. He took the NBA to new heights but his legacy is that he ushered in the era of 1 on 1 ball. I grew up in Chicago and watched every Bulls game from 85-98. You can talk about the Bulls system all you want, but in all reality, the Bulls used the triangle in quarters 1-3. As soon as MJ checked in the 4th quarter, it was MJ ISO time. That is why so many of the stars of the recent past like Iverson, Bryant, Marbury, Stevie Franchise, etc... played so much ISO ball. They grew up watching MJ. Phil Jackson being able to get MJ to share the ball in quarters 1-3 was a major accomplishment. There was a hierarchy on the Bulls. Players like Wennington, Longley, Scott Williams, Stacey King all new their roles and never stepped out of their roles unlike the Rockets today. These players wanted to win and realized that their fame and glory would come after winning. A lot the Bulls role players got serious pay days based on what they did with the Bulls.

 

I disagree with you about free agency. Players are not going to leave their current teams unless they are going to a better situation. LMA left Portland because he would have a chance to win a championship immediately. Greg Monroe chose Milwaukee because he had a better chance to win. New York looked like a mess. Also, Robin Lopez might be a better player. Robin Lopez is good ball mover and decent defender. Monroe is just a scorer. He is on the All-hollow points team. Once you get rid of Harden and replace him with the Troy Daniels, Rob Covingtons, and Ish Smiths of the NBA, your team immediately becomes unattractive to FAs. KD is not coming to Houston to play with those type of players. Westbrook is not either. Once you get rid of Harden, you have to build through the draft. You know why LA and NY got free agents in 90s? It is because they had good teams. There is no way Shaq leaves Orlando to go to LA if they do not have good role players like Eddie Jones. He would never have left Orlando to play with a Laker team like they had last year. LAL and NY are about to become the top destinations once again. LAL have a lot of quality young players that are going to look attractive to FAs. in the near future, Houston is not going to compete with a team that has Russell, Randle, Clarkson, and Nance Jr (another pick Morey traded away). Playing with Porzingis is going to look really attractive as well.

 

The roster of DMO, Capela, Daniels, Covington, Smith is going to lose a lot of games and a majority of the losses are going to be blow outs. You may have fun watching blowouts, but I think a majority of fans are not going to like it. The quickest way to establish a winning culture is to win. That is why SAS has such a culture. In year 1 of Robinson and Duncan, they won a championship. From then on Pop could mentor any way he saw fit. GSW has a winning culture now because they won in year 1 of the Steve Kerr era. You have to win to have a winning culture. Brett Brown has been coaching his players correctly, but Philly does not have a winning culture because they do not win.

 

It is interesting that you conclude with the Celts. The Celts are built exactly like the Rockets last year. They have a ball dominant guard who chucks up a lot shots in Thomas. They have a 3 & D wing in Crowder. They have a non-play making good shooting guard in Bradley. They have a bunch of hard working front court players in KO, Johnson, Zeller, Sullinger, and Jerebko. This looks eerily similar to Harden, Ariza, Bev, DMO, Dorsey, and Black.

 

It is amazing how similar Thomas and Harden are. They both are ball dominant guards who typically look for their shot 1st. Look at Isaiah's game logs. He has shot 40% or less in about half of the Celts games. He has many games where he scored 21 points on 19 shots or something similar. It is amazing how much he dribbles on each possession. Couple that with his incredibly bad defense, it is amazing that his teammates are not demoralized by playing with him. Stevens has done a great job of developing a defensive system where they are able to cover up for Thomas' deficiencies. Imagine if Houston had a coach who could do that. Stevens would never let Crowder act like Ariza is acting this year. Stevens would remind Ariza that he was brought in to play D. He would do the same with Brewer. Imagine how good the Rockets would be if Ariza and Brewer came anywhere close to being the defenders they were last year. I am also sure that Tjones would be a much better player under Stevens then he is now. It is also amazing that when Knight, MCW, Dragic, and Thomas were getting traded, that Morey was not able to get Knight or Thomas to lead the 2nd unit.

 

I agree that the Rockets culture needs to change.the 1st step is to get a good a coach and have Morey get out of the coach's way.

 

I agree with this. Honestly up until this year, almost every future prediction system had the Rockets in the top 5. We had a good front office, a coaching staff that was in sync with said front office, and a roster that had a great mixture of young potential and veteran leadership. The arrow was definitely trending up. 

 

This year it all came crashing down. I'm not exactly sure what happened, and I would love to be able to bluntly speak to Morey and figure out where it all went wrong, but it is what it is at this point. If Harden being a ball hogging prick is destroying the roster, then wouldn't it make sense to try and bring someone in to actually implement a system. If Harden still isn't getting it, you can always move him later. I'm just having a hard time seeing why we are all ready to bail so quickly. His trade value today theoretically is the same as it will be next season. If there is a difference, it would be negligible, barring some really unforeseen events. Why not try and actually get him a good coach that can develop a system, instead of saying well he failed through 55 games this season, so he must just be a bad player that pads his stats. This is the first year the Rockets have taken a step back under James, and everyone is ready to show him the door. It seems like a very what have you done for me lately take.

[thejohnnygold]

I agree with this. Honestly up until this year, almost every future prediction system had the Rockets in the top 5. We had a good front office, a coaching staff that was in sync with said front office, and a roster that had a great mixture of young potential and veteran leadership. The arrow was definitely trending up. 

 

This year it all came crashing down. I'm not exactly sure what happened, and I would love to be able to bluntly speak to Morey and figure out where it all went wrong, but it is what it is at this point. If Harden being a ball hogging prick is destroying the roster, then wouldn't it make sense to try and bring someone in to actually implement a system. If Harden still isn't getting it, you can always move him later. I'm just having a hard time seeing why we are all ready to bail so quickly. His trade value today theoretically is the same as it will be next season. If there is a difference, it would be negligible, barring some really unforeseen events. Why not try and actually get him a good coach that can develop a system, instead of saying well he failed through 55 games this season, so he must just be a bad player that pads his stats. This is the first year the Rockets have taken a step back under James, and everyone is ready to show him the door. It seems like a very what have you done for me lately take.

 

I suppose this is fair.  My reasoning is simply that I have seen enough to feel confident that the issues are not something anyone can fix except for James Harden.  It is something he has carried with him since his time at ASU when his coach talked about his lack of focus and drive.

 

Harden is without a doubt a very talented player.  The problem is that even with all the good he brings to the table he also takes a lot off the table.  Can a better coach or team mates fix that?  Maybe.  I don't believe so.  Spending any more time to find out for sure does not appeal to me.

 

I would rather have Jimmy Butler, Paul George, Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, Khris Middleton...and those are just SG's.  It's just my opinion.  To me, there is more to consider than one's ability to score--it's how you play the whole game.

[txtdo1411]

I suppose this is fair. My reasoning is simply that I have seen enough to feel confident that the issues are not something anyone can fix except for James Harden. It is something he has carried with him since his time at ASU when his coach talked about his lack of focus and drive.

Harden is without a doubt a very talented player. The problem is that even with all the good he brings to the table he also takes a lot off the table. Can a better coach or team mates fix that? Maybe. I don't believe so. Spending any more time to find out for sure does not appeal to me.

I would rather have Jimmy Butler, Paul George, Klay Thompson, Kawhi Leonard, Khris Middleton...and those are just SG's. It's just my opinion. To me, there is more to consider than one's ability to score--it's how you play the whole game.

We will just have to agree to disagree. I'd probably take Butler, and would certainly take Leonard over Harden, but not the others. I agree that there is more to a game than scoring, but Harden's game has correlated to wins for his entire career up until this season. Even this year our bench has routinely been outscored, our defensive "aces" have been less than stellar on that end, and Ty Lawson has become the worst player in the NBA. All of those things plus others I'm missing add up to a rough year. Yes James deserves a good share of the blame, but there is plenty left to go around.

Going by my own eye test (so clearly not a proper scientific method, but I do watch every game), if a player gets open on a cut, more often than not James will hit them. There is just rarely any movement that gets other players open. That to me is more of a coaching/scheme issue than a player one. Now if James is directly telling the coaches and players that he wants them to stand still so he can do his own thing, than yes it is entirely his fault. I just have a hard time believing that is what is happening.

The defensive end is a whole different issue. He has to invest more energy on that end. He can not afford to be as lazy as he has been most of this season. It is entirely up to James changing his attitude on that end. Even saying that, I know bad individual defenders can be a part of good team defenses. To me, other players have regressed on D, and our schemes are way out of whack. This combined with Harden's awfulness on that end has led us to where we are. I still think he was worse in the 2013-14 season, but Dwight was so good he was able to hide a lot of Harden's mess ups, and we had a cohesive scheme.

[thejohnnygold]

We will just have to agree to disagree. I'd probably take Butler, and would certainly take Leonard over Harden, but not the others. I agree that there is more to a game than scoring, but Harden's game has correlated to wins for his entire career up until this season. Even this year our bench has routinely been outscored, our defensive "aces" have been less than stellar on that end, and Ty Lawson has become the worst player in the NBA. All of those things plus others I'm missing add up to a rough year. Yes James deserves a good share of the blame, but there is plenty left to go around.

Going by my own eye test (so clearly not a proper scientific method, but I do watch every game), if a player gets open on a cut, more often than not James will hit them. There is just rarely any movement that gets other players open. That to me is more of a coaching/scheme issue than a player one. Now if James is directly telling the coaches and players that he wants them to stand still so he can do his own thing, than yes it is entirely his fault. I just have a hard time believing that is what is happening.

The defensive end is a whole different issue. He has to invest more energy on that end. He can not afford to be as lazy as he has been most of this season. It is entirely up to James changing his attitude on that end. Even saying that, I know bad individual defenders can be a part of good team defenses. To me, other players have regressed on D, and our schemes are way out of whack. This combined with Harden's awfulness on that end has led us to where we are. I still think he was worse in the 2013-14 season, but Dwight was so good he was able to hide a lot of Harden's mess ups, and we had a cohesive scheme.

 

I agree with you on these points.  I have been pretty vocal about our need for an overhaul on our offensive game plan.  I don't know where the blame lies.  Some think it goes all the way up to Morey, some the coaches, some the players.  There is a good chance it is all three.

 

The defense is truly horrible; yet, we have seen them produce solid efforts and results at times.  It does not seem to be that they are incapable--it seems more like they are just unwilling.

 

That is what leads me towards my (completely unsubstantiated) conclusion that the guys playing around Harden are quietly becoming mutinous in their play.  Being afterthoughts on offense and then watching their efforts on defense wasted because James is a no-show on that end will take its toll on just about any player.  In short, I'm implying that they have quit on him.  There is more to holding a team together than contracts.  I know everyone knows that.

 

Heck, even Mr. Positivity himself, Jason Terry, has seen enough.

 

 

 

"No chemistry with that group. F****** horrible." LINK

 

They may get along off the court.  It's pretty clear that on the court something is wrong.  I am laying that directly on Harden's head.  Maybe that's not fair.  I'd love to be wrong.  I'd love for us to get a new coach, a new system, and a re-invigorated team that plays their hearts out on both ends of the floor.

 

We did that last year.  So, what's changed?  What happened?  Where did it go and how do they get it back?