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Josh Smith - First Glimpse
#21
Posted 24 December 2014 - 05:33 AM
#22
Posted 24 December 2014 - 12:27 PM
2) he's a volume shooter who sucks at shooting.
3) he probably won't want to play the DMo/Jones role as fifth man who scores opportunistically.
With all that said, his talent is such that you have to take a flyer on him. Especially of we can move either Jones or DMo and get a PG. Our title hopes are actually much higher if he can be reined in. But SVG failed, so can Mchale succeed.
Why so Serious?
#23
Posted 24 December 2014 - 02:02 PM
I don't understand the Josh Smith is a cancer thing. When did this become a fact? I can't find any reports, articles, or anything besides the lunatic rantings of fans in comment sections of articles about him.
I can see how he rubs people the wrong way because he doesn't say the things they want to hear--they don't like him and so presume no one else should either?
I think we can corral him a bit in the shooting. It's about where he gets the ball on the floor. If we force him to the wing for spacing and pass it to him, well, what do you expect? (this is what Detroit did and then blamed him for doing what a SF is supposed to do)
No, I think if we run sets for Smith out of the post/high post he will dazzle people who seem to have forgotten that he is an elite passer, with good handles, strength, speed, and a knack for putting the ball in the hole when he is close in.
If we have to put him on the wing, then make it as a cutter/crash the boards sort of thing. If players want to sag off of him then fine, he can cut to the rim and see how they like that. He is also adept at running the pick n roll--as either member of the tandem--which Dwight might find appealing....and we all want more Dwight pick n roll, don't we?
As far as role goes, I don't think there is a question about that. This is James Harden's team. This is Dwight Howard's team. D-Mo has earned respect for his game this season. Ariza has earned respect for his game. So has Brewer. So has Terry. I don't think Josh Smith is the kind of person to come in here and bully his way into the pecking order--and even if he was it wouldn't work.
If he does, then drop him like a bad habit and move on. The Rockets have more money invested in guys not playing for this team this season already ($9.6M to be precise)....what's another $2M?
Just saw that Houston has promised Smith a starting spot if he comes here (per hoopshype.com). We'll know soon...
#24
Posted 24 December 2014 - 02:17 PM
If Smith comes to Houston it is because he is choosing to buy in to the culture and system.
#25
Posted 24 December 2014 - 03:45 PM
Edited by Jatman20, 24 December 2014 - 03:51 PM.
#26
Posted 24 December 2014 - 04:08 PM
I don't understand the Josh Smith is a cancer thing. When did this become a fact? I can't find any reports, articles, or anything besides the lunatic rantings of fans in comment sections of articles about him.
I can see how he rubs people the wrong way because he doesn't say the things they want to hear--they don't like him and so presume no one else should either?
I think we can corral him a bit in the shooting. It's about where he gets the ball on the floor. If we force him to the wing for spacing and pass it to him, well, what do you expect? (this is what Detroit did and then blamed him for doing what a SF is supposed to do)
No, I think if we run sets for Smith out of the post/high post he will dazzle people who seem to have forgotten that he is an elite passer, with good handles, strength, speed, and a knack for putting the ball in the hole when he is close in.
If we have to put him on the wing, then make it as a cutter/crash the boards sort of thing. If players want to sag off of him then fine, he can cut to the rim and see how they like that. He is also adept at running the pick n roll--as either member of the tandem--which Dwight might find appealing....and we all want more Dwight pick n roll, don't we?
As far as role goes, I don't think there is a question about that. This is James Harden's team. This is Dwight Howard's team. D-Mo has earned respect for his game this season. Ariza has earned respect for his game. So has Brewer. So has Terry. I don't think Josh Smith is the kind of person to come in here and bully his way into the pecking order--and even if he was it wouldn't work.
If he does, then drop him like a bad habit and move on. The Rockets have more money invested in guys not playing for this team this season already ($9.6M to be precise)....what's another $2M?
Just saw that Houston has promised Smith a starting spot if he comes here (per hoopshype.com). We'll know soon...
I think it's perception thing as I kind of bought into it as well. There was his suspension for "conduct detrimental to the team" when he was with the Hawks:
http://espn.go.com/n...pended-one-game
There's also the time when Smith clashed with coach Woodson:
http://dimemag.com/2...h-mike-woodson/
And I think the final straw was the fact that the Pistons let him go while willing to pay the remaining salary (54mil was the full contract) to go to another team makes him appear like a "cancer".
There's no doubt in my mind that he has clashed with coaches before but I'm also sure so do most players (Lowry rings a huge bell). I think the media's general dislike for him has blown it up and as I admitted earlier, I am also guilty of adding to that. But as I have also said, the risk/reward is worth the investment. I think there is a enough veteran leadership on this team to make him understand that he is an important piece to a championship run. If he gives them that commitment and plays solid D and rebounds with slashes to the basket, then there is huge value. The only caveat I would like to add is that if Smith is on board, it doesn't impede the further development of D-Mo. I would like them to keep him and continue to play him 25+ min a game. I believe that all of those things can happen.
#27
Posted 24 December 2014 - 04:54 PM
#28
Posted 24 December 2014 - 04:54 PM
I think it's perception thing as I kind of bought into it as well. There was his suspension for "conduct detrimental to the team" when he was with the Hawks:
http://espn.go.com/n...pended-one-game
There's also the time when Smith clashed with coach Woodson:
http://dimemag.com/2...h-mike-woodson/
And I think the final straw was the fact that the Pistons let him go while willing to pay the remaining salary (54mil was the full contract) to go to another team makes him appear like a "cancer".
There's no doubt in my mind that he has clashed with coaches before but I'm also sure so do most players (Lowry rings a huge bell). I think the media's general dislike for him has blown it up and as I admitted earlier, I am also guilty of adding to that. But as I have also said, the risk/reward is worth the investment. I think there is a enough veteran leadership on this team to make him understand that he is an important piece to a championship run. If he gives them that commitment and plays solid D and rebounds with slashes to the basket, then there is huge value. The only caveat I would like to add is that if Smith is on board, it doesn't impede the further development of D-Mo. I would like them to keep him and continue to play him 25+ min a game. I believe that all of those things can happen.
After reading those articles I am not the least bit concerned. Smith is a very competitive guy and the incident with Larry Drew (a bad coach) came on the heels of a losing streak to bad teams (which came on the heels of management trading away all their players and putting the onus on Smith to carry a bad team). I'd be pissed too.
The second one involved Mike Woodson (back in 2009) and nobody outside of the locker room knows what was said, but the author finishes saying that sources close to the team say many of the players have issue with Woodson for allowing "ISO JOE" so much leeway.
If San Antonio were to get Smith everyone would say it was a coup and he is going to do great, blah, blah Popovich, blah, blah.
The reality is, he doesn't do well with a militant coach. He doesn't do well with a heavy hand. Read between the lines of what he says. He cares about his teammates and he cares about the game. He is a rare talent. He is going to do great here. He has always been a high variance player, but Morey isn't scared of that. Check out his game logs from any season he has played. He vacillates from beast mode to least mode on a game to game basis.
I think that is part of why fans dislike him (similar to Lin)--he is inconsistent. They want him to put up 25+ pts, 10 rebs, 5 assists, 3 blocks and 2 steals every night.....yeah, right. Anthony Davis doesn't even promise that level of production.
Yet, even this season, on the abysmal Pistons, playing out of position he is posting games like that. When he's "the guy" that level of variance is bad. When he is in Terrence Jones' role, well, that's just freaking awesome.
#29
Posted 24 December 2014 - 05:13 PM
I forgot....lots of concern is being expressed about D-Mo's minutes, etc.
I think it is safe to say that Morey and McHale know what they have in D-Mo. Since his arrival in 2012, only 3 players remain from the team he was drafted to: Harden, (Beverley who got here mid-season so it only half counts), and Terrence Jones. I'm pretty sure D-Mo has always had trade value which means Morey kept him for a reason. Those reasons have become much clearer recently.
I think he will find a solid role and some acclaim as 6th man of the year when it is all said and done. Back up center/pf is ideal and he will get some starts for injuries/rest purposes. I don't think he will pout. He knows the score. Play hard. Develop your game. After the 2016 season you are going to be one of the better big men in the league and you are going to get PAID. Meanwhile, work on your game. Enjoy being on a winning team. Enjoy learning from McHale and Dream. Enjoy that championship trophy we're going to get.
If there is a trade it will not include D-Mo. Not even for Dragic. No way. Think about it. Dallas is trying to re-animate Jermaine O'Neal one more time so that Greg Smith isn't on the court. The Clips and Blazers are dealing with Hawes and Kaman at back up. OKC is rolling with Perk and Adams. San Antonio has Splitter and Baynes. Memphis has Gasol and Leuer (is that the 2nd best duo in the West?) Alexis Ajinca? Rudy Gobert? The list of back up big men is a who's who of one way guys--offense or defense, but not both. No, Morey is not going to handcuff us with no secondary rim protection. D-Mo is the ace in the hole....and he will continue to get better.
The Cavs just lost Varejao (surprise!) and that means Okafor is a lock to sign there. Seriously, look at the list of free agent centers. Morey doesn't give up D-Mo unless Kevin Durant/Anthony Davis is on the other end of that trade.
#30
Posted 24 December 2014 - 05:59 PM
Josh Smith with Atl: 2011/12:....StL% 2.1.....TRB% 15.9........Ast% 20.6......Blk% 3.8................PER 21.1.................
................................2012/13:....StL% 1.8......TRB%13.6........Ast% 20.9.......Blk% 3.9................PER 17.7................
Career.......................................StL% 2.0.......................................................Blk% 4.6..............................................
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
D-Mo.......................2014/15:....StL% 1.0......TRB%12.6........Ast% 8.9.........Blk% 1.7.................PER 12.7..................
The stats that jump out at you are Ast% and Blk%.....I know different years different teams. D-Mo will continue to learn and develop.
Edited by Jatman20, 24 December 2014 - 06:05 PM.
#31
Posted 24 December 2014 - 06:56 PM
Cancer is probably not the right word but when a team pays you to go away like that there are significant issues (gunslinging gilbert comes to mind as a recent example), and before that atlanta wasn't upset to see him leave. Thats not to say he comes in and just wrecks the team but its something you have to be aware of.
Dmo won't lose minutes, Black and/or dorsey whichever isn't cut won't see the court much anymore which is generally a good thing.
#32
Posted 24 December 2014 - 07:41 PM
I like this signing. They get Smith without losing anything. I am really hoping that the Rockets do not try to trade Jones. I see Jones as a long term solution to a temporary problem. They guy is going to be a stud. As far as the current situation. I am excited to see what happens. To imagine Harden running a pick and roll with Dwight and having Smith coming in for support is crazy scary. I hope Smith doesn't start trying to be a primary option. If it happens, it is too easy for the Rockets to bench him and continue doing what they have been all year with the same players. This is a win-win situation.
Smith also seems like a pretty good passer which should be good for Beverly and Ariza. Here's hoping things work out the way I hope. It is a good time to be a Rockets fan.
#33
Posted 24 December 2014 - 07:45 PM
Cancer is probably not the right word but when a team pays you to go away like that there are significant issues (gunslinging gilbert comes to mind as a recent example), and before that atlanta wasn't upset to see him leave. Thats not to say he comes in and just wrecks the team but its something you have to be aware of.
Dmo won't lose minutes, Black and/or dorsey whichever isn't cut won't see the court much anymore which is generally a good thing.
I agree and I am aware, but I am looking at who let him go and why in addition to the Smith side of it. Danny Ferry wants to build the Spurs East. He wants players who fit a system and are disciplined--Smith isn't that guy. Van Gundy is the same way. Smith will be more comfortable here because things are viewed differently here.
#34
Posted 24 December 2014 - 07:49 PM
But he had to have been pretty cancerous to be cut like that. Apparently the Pistons would have had to give up a 1st for him to trade him. They decided to take the cap hit instead.
(1) Keep in mind the Pistons are now able to take advantage of the Stretch Provision in the CBA which is a significant Cap Hit reduction and allows the Pistons much more Cap space going forward. I have a hunch they want to re-sign Greg Monroe and likely will now.
(2) Also, if the Pistons had traded Josh Smith, they would have had to take back players that add up close to his salary (I believe within 80%). So if the primary reason to cut Josh Smith was (1) above, taking back significant salaries vis-à-vis a trade would have been detrimental.
#35
Posted 24 December 2014 - 07:55 PM
Pretty exciting. I don't know how much can be attributed to Morey, but he really should get some credit toward GM of the year. He was smart enough to let Parsons walk, snagged Ariza who has helped give this team a positive defensive identity, and strengthened our team overall with 2nd round/undrafted players. Throw in that he looks to have grabbed another talent in JSmith that should solidify our defensive prowess even further while letting the Pistons pick up the majority of the bill.
Now if the reports are right and Smith has been assured a starting spot his touches should be controlled enough to keep the long 2s and missed 3s in check. I'm sure McHale will continue to get DMo quality time, and he will likely be considered for 6th MotY, especially if he continues to improve. I'd imagine Dorsey to be the unlucky one waived, which is the right decision at this point as Black was pretty decent in Howard's absence. As for being a cancer...if we all listened to disgruntled fans we'd have to believe that Jeremy Lin was the best player on the planet and that McHale ruined him.
I agree with Johnny that DMo is as safe as can be from being traded at this point, he's got the abilities to be dominant for a long time, even if he's not quite there yet.
#36
Posted 24 December 2014 - 07:58 PM
(1) Keep in mind the Pistons are now able to take advantage of the Stretch Provision in the CBA which is a significant Cap Hit reduction and allows the Pistons much more Cap space going forward. I have a hunch they want to re-sign Greg Monroe and likely will now.
(2) Also, if the Pistons had traded Josh Smith, they would have had to take back players that add up close to his salary (I believe within 80%). So if the primary reason to cut Josh Smith was (1) above, taking back significant salaries vis-à-vis a trade would have been detrimental.
I, too, agree that they will re-sign Monroe soon. As well as throwing every dime possible at Drummond before next season.
#37
Posted 25 December 2014 - 12:17 AM
You guys do realize this will make us the most hated team the league has had for some time. Harden, Howard, Beverley, and Smith. That's Mr. Flop-Ugly-Game, Mr. Soft Loser P***y, Mr. Over-Rated Dirty Player, and Mr. Cancer Can't Shoot.
All being led by the worst coach in the league and managed by a heartless GM.
Let's not forget Corey "Cherry Picker" Brewer and Jason "Everybody Hates Me For Hitting Big Shots Against Your Team" Terry.
I LOVE IT!!! I think I smell a movie comparison....
#38
Posted 25 December 2014 - 12:28 AM
#39
Posted 25 December 2014 - 12:42 AM
Who is Groot?
I'd say Howard....what do you think? McHale???
#40
Posted 25 December 2014 - 01:38 AM
Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Josh Smith, Rockets, Pistons
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