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@  Mario Peña : (10 October 2015 - 01:12 PM) If your part if the Red94 Fantasy Basketball League check the thread to vote for the date and time for the draft event. Thanks y'all!
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@  slick shoes : (07 October 2015 - 06:50 PM) Kobe ranked one spot higher than Ariza? Is this based on legacy or...??
@  slick shoes : (07 October 2015 - 04:13 PM) It was hard to keep up with both the Astros and Rockets at the same time. Should be interesting on Thursday with the Texans and Astros on simultaneously.
@  Mario Peña : (07 October 2015 - 04:09 PM) It was fun to have the Rockets on last night! Right now I'm watching the Celtics versus Milan and Alessandro Gentile is impressive.
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 07:47 PM) Well, thinking twice about it, I'd rather have him score less and have the team as a whole do better. Lawson should take a lot of his load off
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@  Mario Peña : (06 October 2015 - 02:35 PM) Alright guys, if anyone is interested in joining the Red94 fantasy basketball league we could use one more player to get us to 10 teams (or three to get us to 12 teams). Just check the thread in the Fantasy Basketball forum. Thanks!
@  thejohnnygold : (05 October 2015 - 06:23 PM) I use leaguepass here in Austin with no problems...
@  skip 2 my lou : (05 October 2015 - 03:14 PM) Hey fellas, I'm a rocket fan but I live in the heart of Dallas. Does anybody know if I buy NBA Leaguepass if it's too close to be subject to blackouts?
@  Losthief : (02 October 2015 - 02:24 AM) tks jg
@  thejohnnygold : (29 September 2015 - 05:16 AM) FYI, it was media day today. Interviews are up at NBA.com
@  slick shoes : (23 September 2015 - 06:37 PM) kind of late in the day but NBATV is broadcasting classis Rockets games all day today.
@  SadLakerFan : (16 September 2015 - 04:37 AM) Man, as a Laker fan, I'm learning how little you care about the off season when your team sucks. Anyway, a quick moment to remember Moses. Still remember watching the 81 team as a kid - losing record, NBA Finals. I would have cried w/joy if they could have beaten the Celtics.
@  jorgeaam : (15 September 2015 - 08:30 PM) http://bleacherrepor...ist-after-crash
@  jorgeaam : (15 September 2015 - 08:30 PM) So to celebrate his new contract, Montrezl Harrell saved someone's life on monday
@  thejohnnygold : (14 September 2015 - 04:36 PM) A good article from Blinebury talking about when Hakeem and Moses used to play in the park. LINK
@  rockets best... : (14 September 2015 - 02:29 AM) I agree totally. I got to watch his Rocket days and the man was a hell of a player. BIG MO R.I.P.

Photo

Woj eviscerates Coach K


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#1 Red94

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    Posted 15 September 2014 - 01:55 PM

    This was probably one of the more shocking Woj articles I've read, ever.  Usually, anyone he goes after has some sort of record in the court of public opinion.  Up to this point, however, I had never heard even a mere criticism of Coach K.

     

    http://sports.yahoo....-044717393.html

     

    My overall thoughts on the piece: they just made me stop and give consideration to a topic that wasn't even on my conscience.  Very provoking.  I disagree, however, with his take on the George injury: players can get injured anywhere, at any time.

     

    The point I agreed with the most was here:

     

     

    The beginning of the end for USA Basketball had come on that August night, when George crumpled to the court and a bone blasted out of his flesh. It was a sick, sobering moment, and the USA players were still talking about it on Sunday night in Madrid.

    The image was startling, and it'll stay with people for a long, long time. It'll be one of the catalysts to get NBA stars out of FIBA basketball. As the hours passed that August night, Krzyzewski changed the conversation about his involvement in the NBA losing a $100 million star in a worthless scrimmage. At the foot of George's hospital bed, someone had been waiting to snap the photo of the U.S. national coach reaching down and embracing his stricken player.

    Suddenly, this most private and personal moment turned out to be anything but that. Within minutes, that image would be flying through Twitter and Instagram for all those moms and dads to see the compassion and caring of Duke's coach.

     

    At the time of the photo, I found it very odd and choreographed, and thus, I'm glad Woj picked up on this and went in.  


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    #2 rocketrick

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      Posted 16 September 2014 - 02:35 PM

      Compared to what? Coach K simply choosing NOT to visit Paul George? Would that have been the best choice?

      Then Coach K would have been blasted in the media for "not caring" and "spineless", etc.

      Why is this even a topic of discussion?
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      #3 thejohnnygold

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      Posted 16 September 2014 - 03:53 PM

      Why is this a topic of discussion?

       

      When one of the most well-respected NBA journalists goes out of his way to knock one of basketball's golden boys off his throne by alleging his role as "national team coach" is nothing more than a front for funneling talent into his own university that is supported by those in high positions it's a big deal.  Implying that he is a phony is a big deal.  Implying that he abuses his role to usurp and steal talent from other schools is a big deal.  He called him a glory-stealing, photo-op whore who manipulates his contact with pro players into recruiting karma. 

       

      Essentially, flinging mud all over the golden visage of Coach K, unprovoked, is a big deal.  Risking one's own career by doing such a thing (knowing Coach K's influence is far and wide) is a big deal.

       

      Personally, I don't know enough about the details to pass judgement.  I don't entirely blame him for using every recruiting tool at his disposal.  Does anyone think it hurts having guys like Durant, Augustin, Ford, and Aldridge (amongst others) coming by during the off-season to hoop here in Austin?  Nope.  They do it for Coach Barnes and the university.

       

      Every school does it.  Every coach would gladly let as many pros help them recruit as they could.  Coach K just so happens to be in the position he is in.  Is there something more sinister going on?  Is it just some odd vendetta bubbling to the surface?

       

      I do agree that taking the pros out of international competition and returning to the truly "amateur" days is a good thing.  It's more fun rooting for an underdog than watching the Globetrotters/Generals every game.  It's embarrassing for both sides, really.

       

      Also, Woj does have a point that Coach K, whether intentionally or not, does get access to the young kids the other coaches don't.  Perhaps there should be an unwritten rule that no college coaches can be in that position to curb any concerns in the future.

       

      Back to the question.  Why discuss this?  Because for years, Coach K has been the pinnacle of integrity, a father figure to many, and the go to guy for "doing things the right way" (I prefer Izzo, myself, but that's another discussion) and Woj just broke the facade of the Great Wizard of Oz by pulling back the curtain potentially exposing not Coach K, but all of us for being bamboozled all this time.  If there is any backlash from this it won't be for what he "did wrong" (which in reality is very little).  Instead, it will be because of the egg on all our faces and the need to punish him for our own shame.

       

      you-were-the-chosen-one.jpg


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      #4 rocketrick

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        Posted 16 September 2014 - 04:09 PM

        Why is this a topic of discussion?
         
        When one of the most well-respected NBA journalists goes out of his way to knock one of basketball's golden boys off his throne by alleging his role as "national team coach" is nothing more than a front for funneling talent into his own university that is supported by those in high positions it's a big deal.  Implying that he is a phony is a big deal.  Implying that he abuses his role to usurp and steal talent from other schools is a big deal.  He called him a glory-stealing, photo-op whore who manipulates his contact with pro players into recruiting karma. 
         
        Essentially, flinging mud all over the golden visage of Coach K, unprovoked, is a big deal.  Risking one's own career by doing such a thing (knowing Coach K's influence is far and wide) is a big deal.




        you-were-the-chosen-one.jpg


        One step away from the pathetic 1950's McCarthy era-- except in college and professional sports --- in my opinion.

        When Coach K is accused of abusing his position, WITH ABSOLUTELY NO PROVABLE EVIDENCE, well, it
        is a sad day in our society and on these boards.

        Edited by rocketrick, 16 September 2014 - 04:10 PM.

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        #5 timetodienow1234567

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        Posted 16 September 2014 - 05:32 PM

        I'm sure he does benefit from this. However, anyone with a brain realizes that it's the truth. Writing this and the extent to which he went makes me wonder why? Did coach K refuse access to Woj? Woj is the premiere name in this business and it seems like he's taking a shot at Coach K just to do it. I've lost quite a bit of respect for him.
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        Why so Serious? :D


        #6 thejohnnygold

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        Posted 16 September 2014 - 07:11 PM

        One step away from the pathetic 1950's McCarthy era-- except in college and professional sports --- in my opinion.

        When Coach K is accused of abusing his position, WITH ABSOLUTELY NO PROVABLE EVIDENCE, well, it
        is a sad day in our society and on these boards.

         

        Is it a sad day on these boards?  Are you sure you read my post correctly--you took the time to edit huge chunks out, so I presume those items did not suit your own brand of McCarthy-ism.  I clearly stated, "Personally, I don't know enough about the details to pass judgement".  I think the whole thing is bizarre and that, while there is truth in Woj's accusations, there is also malice that seems to arise from nowhere.  This is what makes it curious--it seems personal but there is no context for it.

         

        It's crazy.  It was brief, but he threw Jerry Colangelo and Adam Silver under the bus as well.  He clearly implied that they are knowingly involved in this:

         

         

         

        USA Basketball managing director Jerry Colangelo has set it up for Krzyzewski to have a free run, and he's been strategic and shrewd in its use. NBA commissioner Adam Silver gave Krzyzewski a big hug on the floor Sunday night here – another Dukie thrilled about how this partnership has closed the gap on Calipari and Kentucky, and gone a long way toward burying the North Carolina Tar Heels.

         

        I choose to believe that, at least here, cooler heads will prevail and people will not rush to judgment without full understanding.


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        #7 thejohnnygold

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        Posted 16 September 2014 - 08:22 PM

        That didn't take long.  Here are some counter points.

         

        Article talking about Woj being out of line  Yes, it is from Dukebasketballreport.com  :) so it might be biased...

         

        That same author found this little nugget written by Woj himself back in Oct 2005.  Here, he goes into detail about why Coach K is the perfect, the only, guy for the job.  LINK  Apparently, he no longer feels the same.

         

        Here is the University of Kentucky speaking out (as they were directly named in Woj's article)....it seems they could care less about any advantage Coach K gets.  Given their recent success, I can see why.

         

        Going back to 2005, here are side by side lists of players drafted out of Duke and UK.

         

        DUKE:

        Daniel Ewing

        JJ Redick

        Shelden Williams

        Josh McRoberts

        Gerald Henderson

        Elliot Williams

        Kyle Singler

        Nolan Smith

        Kyrie Irving

        Miles Plumlee

        Austin Rivers

        Ryan Kelly

        Mason Plumlee

        Rodney Hood

        Jabari Parker

         

        UK:

        Rajon Rondo

        Joe Crawford

        Jodie Meeks

        John Wall

        DeMarcus Cousins

        Patrick Patterson

        Eric Bledsoe

        Daniel Orton

        Enes Kanter

        Brandon Knight

        Josh Harrellson

        DeAndre Liggins

        Anthony Davis

        Michael-Kidd Gilchrist

        Terrence Jones

        Marquis Teague

        Doron Lamb

        Darius Miller

        Nerlens Noel

        Archie Goodwin

        Julius Randle

        James Young

         

         

        WOW.  So, you've got Kyrie Irving and an unproven Jabari Parker plus a lot of solid role players for Duke.  UK is pumping out franchise players (4-6 depending on how you count) in the same time and still plenty more who may grow into all-star level players and solid role players.

         

        Total count: 15 (DUKE) to 22 (UK)

         

        Duke recently won NCAA titles in 2001 and 2010.  UK recently won in 1998 and 2012.  Calipari is doing just fine.


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        #8 Losthief

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        Posted 16 September 2014 - 10:16 PM

        you really should read this one: http://www.grizzlybe...ing-wojs-latest

         

        also: http://sports.yahoo....-141704100.html

         

        don't forget woj been dissing them college coaches for a bit now...seems like something he's on a soap box about.


        Edited by Losthief, 16 September 2014 - 10:16 PM.

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        LoSTHieF

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        #9 timetodienow1234567

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        Posted 16 September 2014 - 10:19 PM

        Woj has let his ego get to him. It's sad, but sometimes these guys can have bigger egos than the athletes they cover. Woj is supposed to be a journalist(although that might be my mistake). If he is really a personality like Skip and Stephen A have become that's different. I guess I just had higher standards for him.
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        Why so Serious? :D


        #10 rocketrick

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          Posted 19 September 2014 - 06:46 AM

          Compared to what? Coach K simply choosing NOT to visit Paul George? Would that have been the best choice?

          Then Coach K would have been blasted in the media for "not caring" and "spineless", etc.

          Why is this even a topic of discussion?


          JG,

          I believe you misunderstood the intent of my post and it's my fault for not posting a more informative comment.

          The question I was asking, why is this even a topic of discussion, was simply by ire and instant reaction to the quote Rahat posted from the Woj article that in my opinion posits Coach K as only searching out a photo opp with Paul George in the hospital.

          Which was my immediate response---if Coach K had chosen NOT to visit Paul George in the hospital I believe the repercussions would have been quite negative. Why take the photo with Paul George? Sure that can be debateable but obviously Paul George was fine with that. If not, he could have simply asked his privacy not be invaded.

          More importantly it has come out that Calipari clearly is unhappy with Coach K's and Boehim's, etc. being involved with Team USA and it seems quite clear Calipari would like to be the man on the sidelines going forward.

          Woj should have taken both sides of the argument rather than making the scandalous accusations against Coach K in his article.

          Anyone involved with basketball has no doubt Coach K has probably the highest overall ethics in mind. In fact, he normally recruits players that will commit to more than one season. Calipari? That obviously is not a concern. To me that is a topic that continues being buried about how some coaches and colleges look the other away when recruiting one and done players.

          Here is the link to the CBS Sports article that pretty much shows Calipari is the one behind the attack on Coach K (in my opinion):

          http://www.cbssports...unning-team-USA

          I apologize if the link does not work. I don't have the opportunity to edit my posts currently to make any corrections in misspelling.
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          #11 rocketrick

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            Posted 19 September 2014 - 06:55 AM

            One last comment about USA Basketball going forward. It was Colangelo and Coach K that turned it around for Team USA as they were continuously embarrassed prior to Colangelo and Coach K taking over USA Basketball.

            The argument that Team USA should only utilize college basketball (or otherwise amateurs) on future Team USA rosters bothers me a great deal.

            What about Team France? Team Spain? Team Brazil? Team Argentina? Team Canada (a future powerhouse in international basketball)?

            ALL international teams utilize professionals and it is those professionals that allow those teams to compete.

            If Team USA goes back to the old system of utilizing only amateurs, once again Team USA will be roasted in international basketball.

            The Paul George injury was horrendous. However, that is simply part of playing basketball. Anyone can get injured at anytime. If certain professional players choose NOT to join Team USA because of injury concerns, I am fine with that. But to just consider having no NBA players going forward on Team USA is a huge mistake and one that I personally just don't foresee happening.

            International basketball continues to get better and better as proven by the number of international players now on NBA team rosters. Team USA has the clear advantage but I do believe with the one and done FIBA tournament setup, that Team USA is subject to losing. If Spain would have made it to the Finals, that would have been a huge challenge for Team USA. But because of the one and done FIBA tournament setup, Spain had one bad game and lost a game on paper they should have won.
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            #12 thejohnnygold

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            Posted 19 September 2014 - 05:12 PM

            One last comment about USA Basketball going forward. It was Colangelo and Coach K that turned it around for Team USA as they were continuously embarrassed prior to Colangelo and Coach K taking over USA Basketball.

            The argument that Team USA should only utilize college basketball (or otherwise amateurs) on future Team USA rosters bothers me a great deal.

            What about Team France? Team Spain? Team Brazil? Team Argentina? Team Canada (a future powerhouse in international basketball)?

            ALL international teams utilize professionals and it is those professionals that allow those teams to compete.

            If Team USA goes back to the old system of utilizing only amateurs, once again Team USA will be roasted in international basketball.

            The Paul George injury was horrendous. However, that is simply part of playing basketball. Anyone can get injured at anytime. If certain professional players choose NOT to join Team USA because of injury concerns, I am fine with that. But to just consider having no NBA players going forward on Team USA is a huge mistake and one that I personally just don't foresee happening.

            International basketball continues to get better and better as proven by the number of international players now on NBA team rosters. Team USA has the clear advantage but I do believe with the one and done FIBA tournament setup, that Team USA is subject to losing. If Spain would have made it to the Finals, that would have been a huge challenge for Team USA. But because of the one and done FIBA tournament setup, Spain had one bad game and lost a game on paper they should have won.

             

            I can understand the perspective on this; however, it is one I do not share.  I am aware that other countries use their professionals--it is what spawned the original Dream Team.  While that was an amazing, exciting thing to do that first time around it quickly lost its luster for me.

             

            While I would prefer to go back to the amateur status for Olympic play (FIBA is different, but I don't know how that would be reconciled) I do like the compromise put forth in the article by Woj (not sure if it was his idea or someone else's).  That idea was to use 21 and under players--from any level.  That means NBA players like Anthony Davis, Andre Drummond, Jabari Parker, Marcus Smart, Elfrid Payton, Zach LaVine, Glenn Robinson III, and so on would populate the team, gain valuable early career experience and mentorship, and be entertaining as hell while being easy to root for as the underdogs.  What's not to like?

             

            Losing?  Sure, but it's about more than proving we're the best.  We are the best--everyone knows it.  Going to FIBA and bullying our way to the championship is so very, very American.  We just sent our JV squad over there and dominated.  The US team should be Paul, Durant, Melo, James, Love, Howard, Aldridge, Bosh, Griffin, and of course Harden and Anthony stay on the team plus whoever I'm forgetting....it's debatable, but we all know that team doesn't sweat playing Spain--or anyone for that matter.  What's the point?  Where's the challenge?  What glory can one actually garner from such a spectacle?

             

            My preference would be to send that squad of up-and-comers into international play and let them expand themselves as people and players.  It will improve the NBA by jump-starting the careers of its rising stars.

             

            Could you imagine how awesome it would be for the 2004 USA Olympic team to have been made up of Lebron, Carmelo, Wade, Bosh, Dwight Howard (fresh out of high school), Andre Iguodala, Shaun Livingston (fresh out of high school), Josh Smith (fresh out of high school) and so on.....how cool would that have been to watch?  Would they win Gold?  Maybe....that's a lot of talent.

             

            I like my sports to actually be competitive.  I don't watch my Longhorns when they play football against an opponent that barely has a team and is only playing the game for the paycheck that funds their program for the remainder of the season.  That is not "sport"--it's spectacle.  I'm not into that.  That's why the all-star game is such a letdown every year.  Until it gets back to sport it's not interesting.

             

            I'll get off my soapbox now.  :)


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            #13 Steven

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              Posted 20 September 2014 - 09:06 AM

              Whatever happened to USA basketball costing Duke, since Coach K would not be spending all of his time in Durham?
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              #14 rocketrick

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                Posted 01 October 2014 - 02:05 PM

                I can understand the perspective on this; however, it is one I do not share.  I am aware that other countries use their professionals--it is what spawned the original Dream Team.  While that was an amazing, exciting thing to do that first time around it quickly lost its luster for me.
                 
                While I would prefer to go back to the amateur status for Olympic play (FIBA is different, but I don't know how that would be reconciled) I do like the compromise put forth in the article by Woj (not sure if it was his idea or someone else's).  That idea was to use 21 and under players--from any level.  That means NBA players like Anthony Davis, Andre Drummond, Jabari Parker, Marcus Smart, Elfrid Payton, Zach LaVine, Glenn Robinson III, and so on would populate the team, gain valuable early career experience and mentorship, and be entertaining as hell while being easy to root for as the underdogs.  What's not to like?
                 
                Losing?  Sure, but it's about more than proving we're the best.  We are the best--everyone knows it.  Going to FIBA and bullying our way to the championship is so very, very American.  We just sent our JV squad over there and dominated.  The US team should be Paul, Durant, Melo, James, Love, Howard, Aldridge, Bosh, Griffin, and of course Harden and Anthony stay on the team plus whoever I'm forgetting....it's debatable, but we all know that team doesn't sweat playing Spain--or anyone for that matter.  What's the point?  Where's the challenge?  What glory can one actually garner from such a spectacle?
                 
                My preference would be to send that squad of up-and-comers into international play and let them expand themselves as people and players.  It will improve the NBA by jump-starting the careers of its rising stars.
                 
                Could you imagine how awesome it would be for the 2004 USA Olympic team to have been made up of Lebron, Carmelo, Wade, Bosh, Dwight Howard (fresh out of high school), Andre Iguodala, Shaun Livingston (fresh out of high school), Josh Smith (fresh out of high school) and so on.....how cool would that have been to watch?  Would they win Gold?  Maybe....that's a lot of talent.
                 
                I like my sports to actually be competitive.  I don't watch my Longhorns when they play football against an opponent that barely has a team and is only playing the game for the paycheck that funds their program for the remainder of the season.  That is not "sport"--it's spectacle.  I'm not into that.  That's why the all-star game is such a letdown every year.  Until it gets back to sport it's not interesting.
                 
                I'll get off my soapbox now.  :)


                JG, I understand what you are saying. I just don't agree with some of that.

                I remember the times (not that long ago) when Team USA was continually being embarrassed in the Olympics and in FIBA.

                By the way (can any of the international basketball followers on this board please take a moment to confirm or refute this?), World Championships (FIBA) are considered to be much more important internationally than the Olympics.

                Since Colangelo has come on board and righted the ship, Team USA has simply dominated.

                I listened to his interview on Sirius XM NBA Channel yesterday and he mentioned numerous times the word "consistent".

                International teams are pretty consistent with their key players, coaching, etc.

                If Team USA reverted back to that low period we suffered through last decade, well, the number one reason would have to be INCONSISTENCY especially with coaching as well as which players were on the team.

                Finally, I would just simply pose, would it be the same if any of several international teams chose to play their JV during World Cup instead of their best players?

                I wouldn't mind seeing only the younger (non-professional) players be eligible for Olympic and FIBA competition going forward. Unfortunately, that genie is out of the bottle and I don't see how to change that.

                Since Team USA under Colangelo is responsible for both Olympic and FIBA competition going forward, I much prefer CONTINUITY going forward.

                The bottom line is that most people in our country take great pride in The Olympics and would not understand watching an inferior USA team battling with international teams that boast professional players, including a number from the NBA.

                This is far from a perfect solution. However, as basketball continues to grow internationally, I expect the competition level to continue to rise as it clearly has these past couple of decades.
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                #15 Losthief

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                Posted 02 October 2014 - 01:51 AM

                "In 2019 it's the World Cup that will qualify the majority of teams for the Olympics," said Baumann. "So we are also increasing the role and the importance of the World Cup for all the players to be there because they know the prize is to go to the Olympics."

                 

                http://www.insidethe...d-new-beginning

                 

                has more info too, but the basic answers from it for your question is no:

                 

                Olympics is still bigger, especially to the athletes, but FIBA is trying to steal that away by making the World Cup (and its qualifying) basically the qualifiers for the Olympics. Eventually they probably want to make it bigger, but its not yet/now.


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                LoSTHieF

                I'd Rather Be Lucky Than Skilled


                #16 clydesmoustache

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                  Posted 03 October 2014 - 12:58 AM

                  By the way (can any of the international basketball followers on this board please take a moment to confirm or refute this?), World Championships (FIBA) are considered to be much more important internationally than the Olympics.
                   

                   

                   

                   

                  I was born in Houston but have been living in Australia for 22 years. In Australia the World Championships or World Cup is not of great interest. Olympics on the other hand are big news and we usually suit a stronger team. I'm pretty sure Bogut for example has not played a World Championship but always flirts with the idea of playing the Olympics. 


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                  #17 clydesmoustache

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                    Posted 03 October 2014 - 01:02 AM

                    The power of Wikipedia informs me that Bogut did represent Australia in 2006 at the World Champs! Whoops my bad!


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                    #18 Sir Thursday

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                    Posted 10 October 2014 - 11:58 PM

                    I dislike the idea of an age limit - it feels arbitrary. If they're going to place limits on who gets to play for Team USA, then it should be something like  only allowing players to take part in one four year cycle. They get one WCB and one Olympics and that's it. That way if you get a late bloomer who gets to the point that they are worthy of a roster spot late in life they're still get their moment to shine.

                     

                    I do think there is some benefit to the players beyond the basketball that is played. Having a chance to spend large amounts of time hanging out with the best practitioners of your profession in the world is bound to improve your own skills in the field, and we've seen it several times where players come back from an international tournament and play better. So there is something to be said for still giving everyone a chance to take part in these things. I suspect you're more likely to get something out of this sort of experience at 23-24 than you are at 20-21 (although of course, everyone reacts to this sort of thing a bit differently).

                     

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