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@  RollingWave : (09 December 2013 - 09:42 AM) Well really though Masai's award really just belongs to Dolan's idiocy
@  2016Champions : (09 December 2013 - 09:19 AM) That $15 million over 5 years contract Toronto gave Masai Ujiri was well worth it.
@  2016Champions : (09 December 2013 - 09:18 AM) Then Masai leaves Denver for Toronto and immediately ships Bargnani for Knicks 2016 1st round pick. I'm surprised he got more than a 2nd round pick let alone another potential lottery pick. What a genius! Dumping Rudy Gay's contract ($17.3 million this season, $19.5 million next season)completes the hat trick.
@  RollingWave : (09 December 2013 - 09:17 AM) on top of picks, one of which now look like a top 10 for sure in a great draft, maybe even top 5.
@  RollingWave : (09 December 2013 - 09:16 AM) Well no they couldn't have signed Melo due to cap , but really they literally gave them their entire team's asset, it's like us trading Lin / Parsons / Jones for Melo.
@  2016Champions : (09 December 2013 - 09:10 AM) I think this Masai Ujiri guy could be the first GM to win back to back Executive of the Year awards, and for two different teams. That Melo to New York trade was incredible because Melo was on his contract year, so New York could have just signed him for free in free agency. Nuggets really striked gold with that Knicks 2014 1st round pick.
@  RollingWave : (09 December 2013 - 08:47 AM) If the Knicks end up with the #1 pick (to Denver) they HAVE to stage the draft somewhere else for safety concerns right? :P
@  rocketrick : (09 December 2013 - 08:46 AM) Rudy Gay being traded to Sacramento Kings
@  2016Champions : (09 December 2013 - 04:14 AM) Lol
@  thenit : (09 December 2013 - 12:45 AM) Lol Dolan is so bad that it's plausible
@  2016Champions : (08 December 2013 - 10:11 PM) What if the Knicks are secretly tanking not realizing they don't have a 1st, that's plausible, right?
@  2016Champions : (08 December 2013 - 06:22 PM) I'm reading some hilarious tweets ridiculing the Knicks. Poor Knicks fans lol
@  Dayak : (05 December 2013 - 06:04 AM) J.R. Harden, lol.
@  HazeWinkle : (05 December 2013 - 05:09 AM) @feeling super he had only 15 pts 4-11 shooting which could be put on jh or km he had 5 to and he got blocked about 5 times by guys not known for their defense
@  thenit : (05 December 2013 - 04:35 AM) linsanity, hard yo get that label off, anyone with that king of usage rate has high turnovers including harden, Kobe etc
@  thenit : (05 December 2013 - 04:34 AM) Jeremy got that label in
@  thenit : (05 December 2013 - 04:33 AM) FSS agree to some extent but when hardens shot aren't falling, he has no Impact on the defensive floor and becomes a huge liability, doesn't happen every day when he has a goose egg
@  thenit : (05 December 2013 - 04:32 AM) Fuss
@  RollingWave : (05 December 2013 - 04:32 AM) Remember when folks said our turnover thing was all on Jeremy? yeah I don't either
@  feelingsuper... : (05 December 2013 - 04:24 AM) Dwight did not get stopped, are you joking? They should have ran through him more but hindsight is 20/20. How many more games wil Harden go 0% from three point land?

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15 Game Breakdown

rockets Breakdown On Course

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#1 Kiss_of_Death_Clutch_City

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    Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:56 AM

    The 2013-2014 Houston Rockets have played 18% of their schedule and currently sit at 10-5 heading into Wednesday's game against the Atlanta Hawks. As I look at their record, and recall watching the games, and then read the articles and blogs I keep wondering: Whats Wrong! Houston does not have a problem. If you extrapolate the squads win total over an 82 game schedule the Rockets will end up with 54.6 (so 55) wins. In the last five full seasons in the tough Western Conference 55 wins gets you a second seed twice, a fifth seed twice, and a sixth seed once. Meaning: being on the road to 55 wins is not something to lament about. While I understand that higher expectations bring about the nit-picking I have seen, see below for an example, I still believe the commentary should be more positive. While the Rockets have blown big leads( 76ers, Mavericks), they have also come back from down big against Memphis, so we are only minus one in that category. So maybe the Rockets should be 11-4, and maybe you could even make the case that they should not have lost to the depleted Lakers but even great teams have let downs. Don't get me wrong: I would have loved to have at least split with the Clips, beat the Kobe-less(soul-less) Lakers, and not blown those other two games while still keeping the comeback and be undefeated, but let's be reasonable.

     

    Now on to the nit-picking. I read a topic up for discussion earlier questioning the Rockets team IQ. Everyone of those guys have a high basketball IQ: Period. Even if they don't have a high overall IQ, they have a high basketball IQ. They wouldn't be playing in the NBA if they didn't. Those aptitudes that were pointed out;Lin's passing, Harden and Jones instincts, Parsons ability to get open on cuts; are all examples of high basketball IQ. They have practiced so much that they know how to do those things. There are not many players who are great at everything. Not doing everything at an elite level does not equate to low basketball IQ. It just means that you play with a whole league of players with a high basketball IQ trying to achieve the same thing. Howard defends and rebounds like a beast, Harden scores at will, Lin throws lasers around and attacks, Asik does the same things as Howard minus the scoring, Parsons never stops moving(which is a skill), who knows where Jones potential lies but I'm interested. This team just needs time together to jell. It's really a shame Asik is so unhappy because having him, to me, is more valuable than a potential competitor having him. 

     

    Also, Jeremy Lin went to Harvard, and while it's not MIT, you have to be pretty bright to go to school there and I'm pretty sure that intelligence transfers to the court. 

     

    Great teams need time to get into a great rhythm, another reason I want to stand pat with Asik as the defensive force of the second team, and there are 67 games to achieve great chemistry and even higher team IQ. I see the early blown leads as necessary to building the killer edge needed to compete for championships. Nothing hurts worse than losing a game you had in the bag, and with experience comes the knowledge to keep these things from repeating. There will be growing pains going forward, but I think this team is ahead of schedule and if they end up with 55 wins then it is a 10 game improvement from last year. I look forward to watching a fun, young, good squad go from middle of the pack into a dominant team. What do you think?


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    #2 thejohnnygold

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    Posted 27 November 2013 - 05:00 PM

    Welcome to the forum!  Thanks for the breakdown and the optimism.  I'm with you and am also excited about our guys this season.

     

    Since you took the time to single me out for nit-picking I'll go ahead and give a response.  Yes, it is nit-picking--I can't argue that.  However, I believe it is a valid question and I would disagree with your counterpoints.  Of course every player in the NBA has some level of basketball IQ higher than the Average Joe.  That is not the relativity I am looking at.  It is the relativity amongst their peers (the only one that matters) that I am making comparisons for.  According to you, it seems like anyone who can run, jump, or throw the ball has bball IQ.  Are we going to accuse De'Andre Jordan of having a high basketball IQ?  He blocks shots like a genius ergo he must be, right?  Shoot, let's throw JaVale McGee in there too.  :lol:  I mean, come on...there are some dummies in the NBA ( in a general sense as well as basketball)

     

    I will just go ahead and put this out there.  I personally believe anyone who can't shoot over 60% on free throws must have below average intelligence (at least in relation to basketball).  So, let's grab that list and see if it holds up or if I'm just a judgmental jerk...

     

     

    Looks like ESPN doesn't list everyone yet as they don't have enough attempts to qualify.  Anyways, this is the bottom of the list.  I don't know much about Tony Wroten, but all the others meet my qualifications (or don't, as the case may be).

     

    The bottom line is in every profession there are people smarter and dumber than their peers.  It's the old George Carlin joke--somewhere, one of us has the worst doctor in  the world.  That guy does exist.  The same is true everywhere.  Just because you are in the NBA does not immediately qualify you as having high basketball IQ amongst your peers.

     

    It is a question that surfaced out of a conversation about coaching which led me to wonder about how many guys we have who would fall in that upper echelon of NBA intelligence.  Everyone points to the future while ignoring the point of the question which is asking about now.  Everyone says experience which ignores the emphasis on aptitude.  I can't help this discrepancy.  I don't feel bad for asking the question.  I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong.  I disagree that ability automatically equates to intelligence, but I seem to be in the minority on this one.

     

    I do think that in time some of our players can rise up to an above average level of bball IQ, but I don't think anyone (outside of possibly Lin--and he keeps making me second guess that) has an innate aptitude for the game which not only elevates their own play, but the play of those around them.  (Asik might qualify on the defensive end, but his offensive skills sink him for an overall score)

     

    Anyway, we are a small, tight-knit group of Houston Rockets fans (more like lunatics) and above all else we want the Rockets to win.  Part of our passion leads to a no-holds-barred, all-is-fair-in-love-and-war forum that praises/questions just about everything from the owner down to the players' shoelaces.  I'm glad you chimed in and hope you stick around for more. :)


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    #3 ale11

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    Posted 27 November 2013 - 06:47 PM

    In my opinion, having a high bball IQ implies that a player can adjust to any system because he is smart enough and capable of doing whatever is needed in any given gameplan. Of course there are players that are more skilled than other, so usually the gameplan revolves around them (even CP3 has great bball IQ, it would be fool not to adapt your system to his strengths, just like Nash once used to be before age caught up). But for the rest of the players, it's all about recognizing and adapting. Battier is a great example of high bball IQ, because he takes efficient shots, plays good team defense and do what the team needs him to do. Another one I really like in that regard is Nick Collison....limited player who knows his place and what he needs to do to help his team who rarely makes mental mistakes.


    Edited by ale11, 27 November 2013 - 06:48 PM.

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    #4 2016Champions

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    Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:42 PM

    Having a high IQ is making the right decisions, whether it be to go over our under a screen on defense, or to make the right decision in taking what the defense gives you, making the right pass, running the play correctly, clock management, being at the right place at the right time, reading the play. Our players aren't dumb, just inexperienced, and while we're great in certain areas we're still learning and increasing our collective IQ every game. The collective bball IQ might not be good enough to win a championship right now, but we're definitely progressing towards that.


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    "We're not satisfied with where we're at, but we're optimistic on where things will go from here" - Daryl Morey


    #5 Kiss_of_Death_Clutch_City

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      Posted 27 November 2013 - 09:46 PM

      I agree that in every profession there is someone is who is the worst at their profession. I just believe that unless your talent level is so oh my god out of this world that it can cover up low basketball IQ then the competition for a roster spot in the NBA keeps morons out. I will say that I was not personally attacking thejohnnygold, I was merely using the post as an example of the nit-picking because it was the last one I read before writing my post. I'm not with you on the free throw shooting. I don't believe Howard has a low basketball IQ. He may be immature at times, but he knows basketball.


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      #6 rockets best fan

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      Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:05 PM

      I agree that in every profession there is someone is who is the worst at their profession. I just believe that unless your talent level is so oh my god out of this world that it can cover up low basketball IQ then the competition for a roster spot in the NBA keeps morons out. I will say that I was not personally attacking thejohnnygold, I was merely using the post as an example of the nit-picking because it was the last one I read before writing my post. I'm not with you on the free throw shooting. I don't believe Howard has a low basketball IQ. He may be immature at times, but he knows basketball.

      WELCOME to the forum :) I agree Howard doesn't have a low BB IQ. more than any other position the center position usually requires competent players around him to blossom. therefore a player can look less competent because the players around him have not figured out how to use his strengths. I would say that is more at play than some level of incompetence. however the question is a worthy one. how much can be taught, how much is instinct, how much is athletic ability. the finer points of that question can be debated all day

       

      JG your point on D-Jordan is an excellent example..........you say he has a low BB IQ.......I disagree. he is limited offensively because of limited ability. basketball requires a level of body coordination that he simply doesn't have a lot of. Yes he can get the pretty slams...grab some rebounds, but he will never be a superior offensive player because he has limits. now it would be an interesting observation to watch him this year under a proven teacher in Doc Rivers. if he continues to struggle I will concede he has low BB IQ because I expect Doc to show him how to play to his strengths. if he is unable to grasp that he has low BB IQ. however if he blossoms then all he lacked was a teacher


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      you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


      #7 timetodienow1234567

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      Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:09 PM

      If we are comparing Howard to Marc Gasol, he's dumb as bricks. If we are comparing him to Javale, he's a neurosurgeon. I think he's an average bball IQ guy.
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      Why so Serious? :D


      #8 2016Champions

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      Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:27 PM

      If we are comparing Howard to Marc Gasol, he's dumb as bricks. If we are comparing him to Javale, he's a neurosurgeon. I think he's an average bball IQ guy.

      Agreed. Marc is a good post player but he understands that he makes his team better if he shares the ball. Dwight is a capable passer, just not the most willing passer. He's also a fantastic pick an  roll player, but not th  most willing pick and roll guy which I hope changes.


      Edited by 2016Champions, 27 November 2013 - 11:29 PM.

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      "We're not satisfied with where we're at, but we're optimistic on where things will go from here" - Daryl Morey


      #9 thejohnnygold

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      Posted 28 November 2013 - 01:17 AM

      Well, I'm going to stay out of this IQ talk from here on out.  I think Dwight is one of the lowest BB IQ guys in the league (and that's not just based on his free throws :P ).  Sorry, but he is the epitome of athletic talent trumping all else--I could write volumes on Dwight's failure to understand simple basketball concepts.

       

      I seem to be on my own island and it doesn't look like you guys are getting in your boats and coming over. :lol:   I know our guys will develop chemistry and will look better over time--that's going to have to be good enough.  :)


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      #10 thenit

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        Posted 28 November 2013 - 01:29 AM

        Well, I'm going to stay out of this IQ talk from here on out.  I think Dwight is one of the lowest BB IQ guys in the league (and that's not just based on his free throws :P ).  Sorry, but he is the epitome of athletic talent trumping all else--I could write volumes on Dwight's failure to understand simple basketball concepts.
         
        I seem to be on my own island and it doesn't look like you guys are getting in your boats and coming over. :lol:   I know our guys will develop chemistry and will look better over time--that's going to have to be good enough.  :)


        I agree Howard is just out of world athlete and the reason he is a great player. Once his athleticism betrays him he will not hang around the league like Tim Duncan has.
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        #11 Kiss_of_Death_Clutch_City

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          Posted 28 November 2013 - 01:37 AM

          I just don't see Howard as a low basketball IQ guy. If we think back to the year he took the Magic to the finals he was able to elevate his whole team to play at a level that they were not able to replicate without him. You yourself used this as an example of high basketball IQ. I want to use an example: Shaq was a horrible free throw shooter, but would you consider him a low basketball IQ guy. He was able to elevate the play of others around him and win multiple championships. Now I would buy Shaq having a lower basketball IQ than basketball IQ than Howard, however, he was a physically dominant force. Howard is not as big as Shaq was, and while he doesn't score as prolifically as Shaq, his defense and hustle(as well as his basketball IQ, in my opinion), is far superior to Shaq's. I say this because I watched both play in their primes and Howard has to do the little things to be sucessful, whereas Shaq could basically post up and bully his way to the basket. It takes more mental aptitude to do the little things as opposed to being just physically dominant. But Shaq is one of the greatest players in history and I would probably be hard pressed to find someone who thought Shaq has a lower basketball IQ than Howard. 

           

          Anyways lets enjoy this game tonight.


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          #12 thenit

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            Posted 28 November 2013 - 01:53 AM

            An example of Howard is he thrives in a system where the plays are set but is not as good when he has to think. When he makes his post moves it's so predictive and mechanical that he has to think before he executes instead of doing it in a flow. Spending the whole summe you should be able to learn that and being an veteran should be able to evaluate situations better at the most by making quick decisions hence the turnovers in the post.
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            #13 timetodienow1234567

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            Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:02 AM

            Most centers are low bball IQ. But most have learned to play within themselves in order to see PT.
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            Why so Serious? :D


            #14 thejohnnygold

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            Posted 28 November 2013 - 04:05 AM

            I just don't see Howard as a low basketball IQ guy. If we think back to the year he took the Magic to the finals he was able to elevate his whole team to play at a level that they were not able to replicate without him. You yourself used this as an example of high basketball IQ. I want to use an example: Shaq was a horrible free throw shooter, but would you consider him a low basketball IQ guy. He was able to elevate the play of others around him and win multiple championships. Now I would buy Shaq having a lower basketball IQ than basketball IQ than Howard, however, he was a physically dominant force. Howard is not as big as Shaq was, and while he doesn't score as prolifically as Shaq, his defense and hustle(as well as his basketball IQ, in my opinion), is far superior to Shaq's. I say this because I watched both play in their primes and Howard has to do the little things to be sucessful, whereas Shaq could basically post up and bully his way to the basket. It takes more mental aptitude to do the little things as opposed to being just physically dominant. But Shaq is one of the greatest players in history and I would probably be hard pressed to find someone who thought Shaq has a lower basketball IQ than Howard. 

             

            Anyways lets enjoy this game tonight.

             

            Pretty sure you've got me mixed up here--I don't think I used Howard as an example of high IQ basketball....ever.  In fact, if you dig around the archives you will find that time and again I diminish his role in that Orlando finals trip.  I think Hedo played out of his mind (and it was Hedo making those clutch fourth quarter buckets--not Dwight--to seal victories), they shot threes at a crazy clip, and Van Gundy coached really well (including exploiting Howard's physical dominance and putting the right guys around him).  Now, did Howard help?  Of course.  Did his presence help make those things happen?  Of course.  Was he at his physical peak and commanding double teams every time he got the ball within 8 feet of the basket?  Yes.  His defense was excellent.  Does that make him smart?  Not in my book.

             

            Shaq's bball IQ is debatable, but it definitely is nothing to brag about.

             

            Dang it, I said I was done and here I am :lol: .  OK, now I'm done.  I am content to agree to disagree.  Rockets got a nice win tonight against the Hawks...life is good!


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            #15 jorgeaam

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              Posted 28 November 2013 - 04:23 AM

              Well JG, I am with you on the Howard being a low-IQ player, his offensive understanding of the game is poor to none (trying to post-up almost every trip down the floor even though he isn't nearly as good as with P&R or just looking for the offensive rebound), and his defense has a lot of big flaws (he gives positioning on the floor, and the reason he was a 3 time DPOY is because he knew how to use his athletic abilities to cover up his flaws)

               

              What I defer from is the FT% argument, I don't see Rondo or Al Horford being low-IQ guys, but they both tend to shoot 60% or less from the lane, I think the FT are more a confidence thing that anything else because Horford lives from the elbow shot so it's not a lack of range. 


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              #16 thejohnnygold

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              Posted 28 November 2013 - 04:45 PM

              Yeah, there are quite a few guys hovering just above 60% that I wouldn't immediately think don't have a decent understanding of the game.  Perhaps I should reconsider...


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              #17 timetodienow1234567

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              Posted 28 November 2013 - 05:32 PM

              I think I get your thought process though JG. You think that if you don't improve your FT shooting, then you don't understand enough bball to realize why it's important. 

               

              But you seem to forget, most people on this board think missing tons of free throws are GOOD, so I think Dwight has a genius bball iq.


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              Why so Serious? :D


              #18 2016Champions

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              Posted 28 November 2013 - 09:14 PM

              I don't think it's possible to be a 3 time Defensive POY, and lead the league in rebounding, without having a high IQ in those areas. If athleticism and size was all it required then Javalle McGee would be doing it.


              Edited by 2016Champions, 28 November 2013 - 09:15 PM.

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              "We're not satisfied with where we're at, but we're optimistic on where things will go from here" - Daryl Morey


              #19 thenit

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                Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:36 PM

                Difference is Howard understand instructions well, but not when he has to use his instincts and start thinking.


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                #20 thejohnnygold

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                Posted 29 November 2013 - 10:18 PM

                I think I get your thought process though JG. You think that if you don't improve your FT shooting, then you don't understand enough bball to realize why it's important. 

                 

                But you seem to forget, most people on this board think missing tons of free throws are GOOD, so I think Dwight has a genius bball iq.

                 

                That is definitely part of it--but even the intricacies of feeling the movements in your hand, wrist, elbow, legs, feet and being able to adjust them to get the shot right--that's really not all that difficult to do.  If you find yourself shooting free throws, missing lots of them, and have no idea what you're doing wrong and just keep doing it....well....to me that says something.  Especially when you've got access to great coaching.  (I know the word is it's mental and he is psyched out, but that still falls under the same umbrella to me)

                 

                As for DPoY Awards given out by the media, they do not impress me because most of the media does not impress me.  That award, while I'm sure lovely on someone's mantle, carries little weight in my book.  Let's be honest, Dwight wins those awards because of all the SUPER blocks he sends 5 rows up into the stands, and,  "WOW, what a play!", he gets so many rebounds, etc. (Remember, he won those before any of this "Dwight Effect" stuff came about)  Dwight could have and should have been sending those blocks to teammates--but you're right, giving the ball back to the other team is very smart.  Part of his rebounding comes from being alone under the basket and not having to compete with teammates for the ball.  When everyone else is on the perimeter you're going to get more balls.  It's not intelligence--it's opportunity.  Oh, and being able to jump higher than anyone else doesn't hurt either.  Do you know what you don't see?  Dwight moving to a spot before the ball hits the iron.  Smart rebounders watch the shot and anticipate its trajectory.  They get in position, box out, and go get it.  Dwight stands pat and grabs the ones that come his way or land nearby where nobody is.  He also nicks a few from his teammates here and there, but that's ok...that happens.

                 

                JaVale McGee....JaVale McGee is so dumb he makes Dwight look like a savant--that comparison lacks validity.  McGee is so dumb even the Wizards were like, "Sorry JaVale, but you're going to muck up our locker room with all that stupid you're oozing."  The Wizards! :lol:  I bet if we looked closely we'd see that McGee is wearing velcro shoes...with a big "L" drawn on one and an "R" on the other.  No, Dwight isn't like JaVale, but that doesn't really say much.

                 

                Thenit's post above is spot on.  He can be taught routines and he can execute them with his excellent athleticism.  As soon as he has to think bad things happen.  It's the yin and yang of Dwight.  You take the good with the bad.  I'm ok with it.

                 

                By the way, your response about not being able to win 3 DPoY's and be stupid...that's exactly what Dwight said...but I'm guessing you knew that.  Nobody thinks they are stupid.

                 

                Say something like this to a group: "90% of the posters on this forum believe they are smarter than most but in reality are not even close".  You'll probably find that the vast majority of people who read that immediately thought, "I'm in the 10%" (Stolen from Reddit, but appropriate here).

                 

                We can disagree on this--I'm not even supposed to be discussing it anymore :lol: --I simply don't see it in him--I see the opposite.  I don't find myself watching him play and thinking, "That was a smart play, Dwight.  Good job."  Usually, I find myself leaning more this way...

                 


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