Assessing Jeremy Lin: Part 1

With the Dwight Howard courting period still some time away from commencement, we’ll turn our direction towards the most polarizing topic in Rockets basketball – Jeremy Lin.

To begin, a recitation of prior thoughts: My stance all year long was one of opposition to Kevin McHale’s handling of Lin.  I believed that McHale did not properly manage Lin’s playing time and confidence, maintaining a short leash when, in my opinion, the circumstances dictated trust and nurturing.  As the only player on the team other than James Harden able to create his own shot, I believed that Lin should have been given more opportunities to succeed; instead, he was routinely benched in the fourth quarters of close games, after short spurts of poor play, and rarely allowed to attack as the primary point of offense.  I believed that early lenience would bear later fruit through renewed confidence and repetition.

[While McHale’s approach can only be characterized as myopic, I can’t particularly find fault.  Void of job security, McHale doesn’t have the luxury of coaching for the future, unlike Gregg Popovich of the Spurs.]

What transpired for Mr. Lin during the postseason was perhaps, with the benefit of hindsight, all too predictable.  In the few games in which he appeared, Lin provided little of anything productive, appearing, if not timid, wildly out of sorts.  However, it would not be accurate nor truthful to conclude that Lin would have fared better had he been given a chance to take his lumps earlier on or that the poor showing was direct result of McHale’s mismanagement.  It could very well be that Lin simply doesn’t have it to compete against physical defense.  Yet I contest that the only way to have truly known would have been to have given him a chance.  Without those in-season reps, Lin didn’t stand a chance in the postseason.

Lin, the player, is a fascinating paradox.  He shatters racial stereotypes in that his dominant trait is his athleticism.  He’s big, sturdy and possesses elite level quickness.  It’s his skill level that comes up short.  Lin’s main ability is in blowing past defenders with a lethal first step, either one on one, or off the pick and roll.  It’s in facing complex schemes or menacing defenders where he comes undone.  I’ve posited that Lin possibly has the lowest overall skill level of any starting point guard in basketball.  After having watched him closely for an entire season, I still feel comfortable with that assertion.

Unlike his peers, among deception/change-of-direction moves, Lin only has a standard right-to-left/left-to-right crossover, and a weak one at best.  (Other moves frequently seen in the repertoires of Lin’s peers include the in&out, between the legs, behind the back, and spin.)  Lin also does not have hesitation/head-fake moves.  For these reasons, if Lin is unable to simply blow by his man with sheer quickness, he is left unable to get past his man at all.

Towards year’s end, I spoke at length with a well-placed individual within the Rockets’ basketball ops specifically about Lin’s development.  When asked, in contrast, about which traits made the very best point guard—Chris Paul—truly great, he responded, “the ability to dribble the ball at different heights.”

While simple, this is rather profound.  What makes Paul, and formerly Steve Nash, so lethal, is that they can keep a live dribble within cramped spaces by using a tight, close dribble.  Paul can dip his way around picks, inside the paint, stop, stay low, and reassess the opposing defensive coverage prior to making his decisions.  Lin, in contrast, can only blow by initial coverage, maintaining a waist-high handle; he can’t stay low and protect the ball.  For Lin, there is no stop-assess, read-react.  There is only the first initial burst.

This inability on the part of Lin is a subset of the overall inability to play at different speeds.  Lin can only play fast which is why, to date, he is an average point guard at best.  Point guards are taught from a young age that they can and should always be able to control their man, simply by keeping him at his hip.  They can play slow, they can play fast, or they can even stand their ground in one spot, just by protecting the ball with their bodies.  Lin, on the other hand, lets his man control him, as he simply tries to get past him; Lin can’t keep a live dribble in one spot against a pressing defender.  To any trained eye, it’s apparent that Lin did not play point guard in college.

Among Lin’s other flaws are poor fundamentals and overall lack of variance in his arsenal.  He has an awkward hitch to his shot and most egregiously, he simply cannot drive left.  If you watch, Lin just isn’t comfortable going in that direction.  There is no burst and if he even does go that way, it will just be a few soft dribbles before a pass off.  Even worse, if taking a layup from the left, Lin jumps off the wrong leg and just resorts to a reverse right-handed layup.  Lin doesn’t have a floater or any unique finishing move.

For these reasons, Lin will never be a pure floor general even at the level of former Pacer Mark Jackson.  It’s possible that Kevin McHale, a man who’s seen a few games of basketball in his time, noticed this immediately and decided it wasn’t even worth the time and reps.  I contest, however, that even if not serving as a full-fledged pure point, Lin at the least, with more confidence, could have better used his elite quickness in the playoffs to create opportunities as a hybrid guard.  Alas, it didn’t happen and we won’t know.  With that said, if McHale’s thinking truly was in line with my theorization, it at least holds ground against the test of rational basis.

In the next installment, I’ll discuss Lin’s dramatic shooting improvement over the course of the year with a look ahead to his role in what could possibly be a Dwight-centric offense.

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Total comments: 276
  • BrentYen says 6 months ago It is also depends on what do u mean by best, it is just too early to say anything for sure. He is not the piece that ROX need to address right now.
  • thenit says 6 months ago Rbf agree with you. Although I believe that he can eventually develop into a top 10 pg, but best would be a huge shock to me.
  • rockets best fan says 6 months ago

    If Lin can compete that well with such a limited skill level, how much more lethal if he improves on these areas. This kid learns real fast. You can see his improvements year after year. Nobody can say he's not smart and he can't learn. His upsides are absolutely awesome. Just hire someone to teach him, he must be the candidate of the best point guard in the future.

    slow down there............ you're doing 75 mph in a school zone :lol:I thought you were going to say Lin for president if you kept going :lol:best PG in the future? that would surely blow my mind.

  • myjohnlai says 6 months ago

    If Lin can compete that well with such a limited skill level, how much more lethal if he improves on these areas. This kid learns real fast. You can see his improvements year after year. Nobody can say he's not smart and he can't learn. His upsides are absolutely awesome. Just hire someone to teach him, he must be the candidate of the best point guard in the future.

  • Richards says 7 months ago

    Thread on Jeremy Lin is pretty much like Jeremy Lin. Won't go away easily.

  • BrentYen says 7 months ago

    Well in LOF's eye (meant mine at least :P), if you are just interpreting someone else's comments fairly, you will not be called as a hater IMO. Most ppl been called hater of any player is because either they bait others for a unnecessary debate or trolls with nonsense.

    I, too, think McHale does not rate Lin very highly, and it is not really a surprise since he is like that for a whole season of 2012-13. He obliviously is a doubter of Lin.

  • rockets best fan says 7 months ago

    After reading Mchale say, "He's going to get pushed for time with AB, and Pat, and Isiah Canaan."

    I'm not bullish on Lin's role with the team. If a guy that clearly looked washed up last year can push Lin(in McHales mind) then that speaks volumes on what he thinks of Lin. And his dismissal of Asiks rumblings were not those you would normally hear a coach say.

    I agree........I didn't want to say it because LOF's will think I'm just hating :lol:but that's not the kind of endorsement that sounds like McHale has confidence in Lin's ability to fulfill what he believes is thenecessary role for PG on this team. we haven't even started the season and he is already talking about Lin losing minutes to other players.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 7 months ago After reading Mchale say, "He's going to get pushed for time with AB, and Pat, and Isiah Canaan."

    I'm not bullish on Lin's role with the team. If a guy that clearly looked washed up last year can push Lin(in McHales mind) then that speaks volumes on what he thinks of Lin. And his dismissal of Asiks rumblings were not those you would normally hear a coach say.
  • BrentYen says 7 months ago

    I see your points now, thanks

  • bboley24 says 7 months ago

    You're looking for a leader that is "capable" of handling the role of general. Skills are great but Eric Snow and Dfish aren't exactly allstars. If its clutch you're looking for, that will come with experience. Just don't throw a Jamall Tinsley or Damon Stoudamire in the lineup because they have more talent. Let the scoring be had by our allstars and let his distribution and defense speak for itself. If he can hone in his 3 point shot and less turnovers, he is capable of that role; minus 5 million.

  • BrentYen says 7 months ago

    It has proven to work throughout the years that a capable point guard can lead a team to the championship. Dfish, Rondo '08, eric snow, bj armstrong, mario chalmers. I think if it weren't for his heavy contract, this wouldn't be an issue at all. We have more than capable back ups.

    I am just curious, while you cite those players, what is the connections or points that you are making out of it?

  • bboley24 says 7 months ago

    It has proven to work throughout the years that a capable point guard can lead a team to the championship. Dfish, Rondo '08, eric snow, bj armstrong, mario chalmers. I think if it weren't for his heavy contract, this wouldn't be an issue at all. We have more than capable back ups.

  • rockets best fan says 7 months ago

    Jeremy Lin is a hot debate here. One thing that I think most will overlook is that he isn't a punk and he's a hard worker. Hard to find these days. He won't go in the stands and punch people, he won't start fights, he won't have a drug problem, he won't get a coach fired. He is a leader and a mentor. If anything he's an asset like derek fisher and the talent level of a championship starter Mario Chalmers.

    I don't think any other part of Lin is being questioned here outside of his game. it's common knowledge we all agree he is a good locker room influence and all around good guy. the debate here is over his skill level nothing more nothing less. his workethic isexcellent. that's not the problem. his ability to become the player we feel can man the PG position on this team is what's being called into question. no matter what side of the debate there are certain attributes we all agree he has.

  • bboley24 says 7 months ago

    Jeremy Lin is a hot debate here. One thing that I think most will overlook is that he isn't a punk and he's a hard worker. Hard to find these days. He won't go in the stands and punch people, he won't start fights, he won't have a drug problem, he won't get a coach fired. He is a leader and a mentor. If anything he's an asset like derek fisher and the talent level of a championship starter Mario Chalmers.

  • Hockey the Harden Way says 8 months ago

    Saw some video of pickup games in Taiwan....... I'm still skeptical about that left hand. He still finishes right, right, right.............

  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    I agree the benefit has to out weigh the risk of change. however Lin's shooting motion doesn't appear to be broken to me. his shot looks fine to me, but it's more the repetition of shooting enough that will make him better if he is to get better to me.

    Ture, I was simply pointing out the flaw I see and I suspect that it affects his consistency. As for change or not, I really do not know if the change will hurt or benefit him for the next season or not. I just lean more on he should change, I think it will benefit him in the long run.

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    I think that's why a player should change this in the summer during the practices and workouts. If successful, he does not have to think about it anymore during the game. So...to your point, that is basically depends on the situations, e.g. your shooting% b4 change. Indeed the gains has to out weigh the risk for a player to actually make the change.

    I agree the benefit has to out weigh the risk of change. however Lin's shooting motion doesn't appear to be broken to me. his shot looks fine to me, but it's more the repetition of shooting enough that will make him better if he is to get better to me.

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    @Sir Thursday

    I agree if your goingto mess with a players mechanics now is the time to do it. I also agree this would be a good question for Rahat to ask. I would be interested in his answer.

  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    I see your point, however to me if a player must think about his shooting motion and hitting the shot he's thinking to much. shooting has to be a natural motion. most of these players in the league today have been playing basketball all their lives and have developed their own styles. YES sometimes it's possible to change styles and be successful this late, but sometimes messing with a players mechanics can do more harm than good. that's why teams envyplayers who are already mechanically sound. it gives the player a higher chance of reaching full potential.

    I think that's why a player should change this in the summer during the practices and workouts. If successful, he does not have to think about it anymore during the game. So...to your point, that is basically depends on the situations, e.g. your shooting% b4 change. Indeed the gains has to out weigh the risk for a player to actually make the change.

  • Sir Thursday says 8 months ago

    I see your point, however to me if a player must think about his shooting motion and hitting the shot he's thinking to much. shooting has to be a natural motion. most of these players in the league today have been playing basketball all their lives and have developed their own styles. YES sometimes it's possible to change styles and be successful this late, but sometimes messing with a players mechanics can do more harm than good. that's why teams envyplayers who are already mechanically sound. it gives the player a higher chance of reaching full potential.

    This is the time of year where if you're going to modify your technique you'd do it. I agree that it can sometimes be risky but if the rewards of improved shooting form and the associated higher ceiling of shooting performance are big enough, it can be worth doing. Take Chuck Hayes' free-throw shooting, for example. He was able to work that kink in his shot out over time and his FT% improved significantly as a result (in the '08-'09 season it was down to 36.8%, but he got it back up to 66.2% in his final season in Houston).

    Now, Lin doesn't have anywhere near the same mechanical problems as someone like Hayes, so the rewards for a rework obviously won't be as substantial. I don't have time to watch the video now and see if I can spot any differences (and I am not great at evaluating shot mechanics so I suspect I wouldn't be able to tell if something had changed anyway), but I suppose it's possible. The only way to find out would probably be to ask him if there's been some emphasis from the coaching staff about it - maybe something for Rahat to ask once training camp opens and he gets some access?

    ST

  • thejohnnygold says 8 months ago

    I will say this (trying not to endorse either side of this)--Plenty of athletes continue to tweak and improve their mechanics--even great ones. I will cite Tiger Woods (to mixed reviews) and Lebron James (he allowed Ray Allen to make adjustments to his shooting stroke amongst other things) as a couple of high profile examples. Baseball pitchers do it all the time as do the hitters. The results vary, but that is the nature of the beast. They all set out with the same goal of improving, but nothing is guaranteed. If Jeremy is getting coached to keep the elbow in then it is probably for the best as it can be meddlesome in regards to consistency. Whether or not it produces results is a separate matter, but it can't hurt. In time, this motion will become as natural as the one it is replacing. In reality, the news of this and its subsequent dissection just shows the chasm of bias between fans.

    They should make a follow-up documentary to "Linsanity" called "Life under a Microscope". In it, they can just have Jeremy read some of the best messages posted about him on fan boards--from the ridiculously positive to the most scathingly negative. I would have Chandler Parsons sit in on this and the two of them can just laugh, and read, and laugh, and read some more. At the end, they turn the tables and recite a well-written, and well-deserved rebuke to everyone who forgot that Jeremy is just a man playing a game the best he can--an opportunity every single one of us would take without hesitation.

    This is not directed at anyone in particular--it is for all of us who take the time to say anything about Jeremy Lin. It's interesting to combine the "role model" ideal into this. Jeremy is a great role model. Yet, he inspires argument more than anything else--that must be very frustrating.

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    You got a point, however, I think given a particular player, if he shoot more mechanically sound, he will shoot better.

    Parsons is an good example, his mechanic are good to me, that's why he rarely misses a shot left or right. Indeed he shot pretty flat (I think this will hurt him in the long run), however, in terms of mechanics, I think he is doing ok.

    Back to Lin, his elbow flare often times cause his shot misses left or right (worse kind of misses) IMO.

    So....I think it is relevant.

    I see your point, however to me if a player must think about his shooting motion and hitting the shot he's thinking to much. shooting has to be a natural motion. most of these players in the league today have been playing basketball all their lives and have developed their own styles. YES sometimes it's possible to change styles and be successful this late, but sometimes messing with a players mechanics can do more harm than good. that's why teams envyplayers who are already mechanically sound. it gives the player a higher chance of reaching full potential.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    And the cycle continues... I'm going to officially try and avoid anything Lin related. Its repetitive, redundant, and I as a person would much rather discuss the improvement of demo and jones.

  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    you may see it as relevant but I don't. in some cases shooting motion helps, however I have seen players with beautiful shooting motions who couldn't hit the side of a barn with........the side of a barn :lol:I have also seen some players who have ugly motions but still able to knock them down. it's not so much what a players motion looks like as much as his ability to knock them down. case in point.....look at Parsons.....have you seen how flat he shot is? but he is still able to knock it down........that's all that really matters

    You got a point, however, I think given a particular player, if he shoot more mechanically sound, he will shoot better.

    Parsons is an good example, his mechanic are good to me, that's why he rarely misses a shot left or right. Indeed he shot pretty flat (I think this will hurt him in the long run), however, in terms of mechanics, I think he is doing ok.

    Back to Lin, his elbow flare often times cause his shot misses left or right (worse kind of misses) IMO.

    So....I think it is relevant.

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    Why? it is relevant to his shooting percentage. I think it is legit observation.

    you may see it as relevant but I don't. in some cases shooting motion helps, however I have seen players with beautiful shooting motions who couldn't hit the side of a barn with........the side of a barn :lol:I have also seen some players who have ugly motions but still able to knock them down. it's not so much what a players motion looks like as much as his ability to knock them down. case in point.....look at Parsons.....have you seen how flat he shot is? but he is still able to knock it down........that's all that really matters

  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    http://youtu.be/D2DlLHDjRtA

    is it me or did Jeremy straighten out that flair with his elbow, if he did, that leads to a more consistent shot. Which is a great thing for him.

    I think his elbow still sticks out too much, however I think his release time has been shortened.

  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    you're kidding right :lol: next you'll be telling me to watch the way he holds his spoon when eating cereal in the morning....it helps his jump shot :lol:

    Why? it is relevant to his shooting percentage. I think it is legit observation.

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    I was talking about the flair he had with his elbow when he shot last year compared to now. If anyone sees a difference

    you're kidding right :lol: next you'll be telling me to watch the way he holds his spoon when eating cereal in the morning....it helps his jump shot :lol:

  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    I don't find anything about that video particularly relevant, but if he can shoot better then more power to him.


    I was talking about the flair he had with his elbow when he shot last year compared to now. If anyone sees a difference
  • Cooper says 8 months ago I don't find anything about that video particularly relevant, but if he can shoot better then more power to him.
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    http://youtu.be/D2DlLHDjRtA

    is it me or did Jeremy straighten out that flair with his elbow, if he did, that leads to a more consistent shot. Which is a great thing for him.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Pretty much sums it up.

  • thejohnnygold says 8 months ago

    calvin_arguing.png

  • Steven says 8 months ago

    Lin is not a superstar but he is a good starter and a great fourth option.

    For the Bobcats.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago Lin is not a superstar but he is a good starter and a great fourth option.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Believe what you want. Lin has a spot in this league as a team's third PG. No team will ever win the championship with him as the starting PG.

    Well the you must not really support the rockets then.
  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    Believe what you want. Lin has a spot in this league as a team's third PG. No team will ever win the championship with him as the starting PG.

    Nah....Team will need him to start to win the championship.

  • Steven says 8 months ago Believe what you want. Lin has a spot in this league as a team's third PG. No team will ever win the championship with him as the starting PG.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago Steven showed his true colors.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Third option as the PG, third string.

    Too late, cats out of the bag friend. I will never let you live this down.
  • Steven says 8 months ago Third option as the PG, third string.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Id say third.

    How cute, you admitted to lin being a quality PG, but I say fourth because lin is learning to become a pass first PG, (You have to admit he can make some nice passes) and Parsons will be our sharpshooting third option. If you can imagine parsons filling a bit of a Ray Allen role like in the Celtics Big 3. However with what his improvement is going he should be a deadly fourth option and keep defense very honest. I would say he averages 12-15pts and 8 assists along with a very consistent jumper, effective going left, much more confidence which does wonders in all aspects of your game and a bit smarter defender when he was ranked the 10th best defensive PG last season.

  • Steven says 8 months ago

    No, logical people know he can be a great quality PG as a fourth option.

    Id say third.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    People still do.

    No, logical people know he can be a great quality PG as a fourth option.

  • Steven says 8 months ago

    I honestly don't think that he was full of himself, people just expected things from, he couldn't do.

    People still do.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago I honestly don't think that he was full of himself, people just expected things from, he couldn't do.
  • Hockey the Harden Way says 8 months ago

    I saw a great comment a couple days ago on CF. It stated that the Harden trade was God telling Lin to not get too full of himself.........

  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    We don't know if it's a bad contract yet - we've only seen the production generated by 1/3 of it. While I know that your position is that Lin has not been worth the salary cap hit on the team this season, I don't think it follows that he will be unable to live up to the standards that $8m figure next to his name demands for the rest of his tenure in a Rockets jersey.

    Like I said on the other thread - everyone was bashing Mike Conley's contract after he signed with Memphis for 5 years at $40 million. They're not laughing now. Compare Conley's numbers from 09/10 and they look pretty similar to Lin's from last season - remembering the Conley had far more experience helming a team than Lin did at that point. I'm not arguing that Lin will definitely show a similar trajectory, just that it's possible for that to happen, and that possibility means that it's worth sticking with him a little bit longer.

    In any case, this is not an argument that can be resolved on the basis of last year's numbers. It is the performance Lin puts in over the entirety of his contract that will either prove Morey right or justify his detractors.

    ST

    People who does not follow every game in the regular season tends to use a player's play-off performance to judge him. Lin still haven't got a good chance to "showcase" I think. Will be known 2 yrs later for sure.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    We don't know if it's a bad contract yet - we've only seen the production generated by 1/3 of it. While I know that your position is that Lin has not been worth the salary cap hit on the team this season, I don't think it follows that he will be unable to live up to the standards that $8m figure next to his name demands for the rest of his tenure in a Rockets jersey.

    Like I said on the other thread - everyone was bashing Mike Conley's contract after he signed with Memphis for 5 years at $40 million. They're not laughing now. Compare Conley's numbers from 09/10 and they look pretty similar to Lin's from last season - remembering the Conley had far more experience helming a team than Lin did at that point. I'm not arguing that Lin will definitely show a similar trajectory, just that it's possible for that to happen, and that possibility means that it's worth sticking with him a little bit longer.

    In any case, this is not an argument that can be resolved on the basis of last year's numbers. It is the performance Lin puts in over the entirety of his contract that will either prove Morey right or justify his detractors.

    ST

    Agreed.

  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    A bad contract is a bad contract. Just because teams give stupid contracts to players, doesn't mean the Rockets should do the same. And yes the Rockets could be one of the five to ten teams with a worse PG situation, but paying $20M over the next two years to a below average PG is a bad contract.

    Nah...25mil is obiviously not enough....indeed this contract is a bad contract...

  • Sir Thursday says 8 months ago

    We don't know if it's a bad contract yet - we've only seen the production generated by 1/3 of it. While I know that your position is that Lin has not been worth the salary cap hit on the team this season, I don't think it follows that he will be unable to live up to the standards that $8m figure next to his name demands for the rest of his tenure in a Rockets jersey.

    Like I said on the other thread - everyone was bashing Mike Conley's contract after he signed with Memphis for 5 years at $40 million. They're not laughing now. Compare Conley's numbers from 09/10 and they look pretty similar to Lin's from last season - remembering the Conley had far more experience helming a team than Lin did at that point. I'm not arguing that Lin will definitely show a similar trajectory, just that it's possible for that to happen, and that possibility means that it's worth sticking with him a little bit longer.

    In any case, this is not an argument that can be resolved on the basis of last year's numbers. It is the performance Lin puts in over the entirety of his contract that will either prove Morey right or justify his detractors.

    ST

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago

    A bad contract is a bad contract. Just because teams give stupid contracts to players, doesn't mean the Rockets should do the same. And yes the Rockets could be one of the five to ten teams with a worse PG situation, but paying $20M over the next two years to a below average PG is a bad contract.


    But what makes a bad contract? Doesn't the fact that there are multiple teams giving those contracts mean that it's the market price? And like we said before Steven, most of us think Lin is an average starting PG. From 15th to 18th best in the league. That's what the price is. You disagree, but that doesn't change the fact that Morey disagrees with you.
  • Steven says 8 months ago

    For whatever it's worth, there are a lot of inferior guards making a similar amount.

    A bad contract is a bad contract. Just because teams give stupid contracts to players, doesn't mean the Rockets should do the same. And yes the Rockets could be one of the five to ten teams with a worse PG situation, but paying $20M over the next two years to a below average PG is a bad contract.
  • ale11 says 8 months ago

    For whatever it's worth, there are a lot of inferior guards making a similar amount.

    100% agreed, but are any of them good contracts?

  • ale11 says 8 months ago

    How much does he worth then, to those detractors?...

    You should ask them

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago Lol. Who cares?
  • Cooper says 8 months ago

    He even told you why Lin is good and why he can't stand Lin haters who make stupid accusations. He wasn't just saying nice things about him, he was saying why he is very valuable to his team and why he supports him but you refuse to acknowledge because you're in denial that he supports Lin.

    do you not read? I said he was right but any gm would support his players play on the court which shouldn't be something that is so offensive to you
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    I was not saying he wasnt right but if you're going to sit there and tell me any player is a great player because their own gm says he's good that's just ridiculous. They have a vested interest for all their players to be seen as good.

    He even told you why Lin is good and why he can't stand Lin haters who make stupid accusations. He wasn't just saying nice things about him, he was saying why he is very valuable to his team and why he supports him but you refuse to acknowledge because you're in denial that he supports Lin.
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    Some people truly hate Lin, but most of Lin's detractors point that you are basically paying him 25 M through three years as if it were a rookie deal. If you we are truly believing that his NY play was some sort of ceilling and not the norm, is it worth 25 M?

    Don't get me wrong, I do like Lin and I do like him to be our point guarde because he is smart enough (he went to Harvard!) to adapt his game and thrive, what I'm trying to say is that at some point I do understand the detractors (NOT the haters) who feel that he is overpaid and we could somehow relocate that salary in two or three players that could also adapt or even fit better in our roster, giving us a more complete roster.

    Right now, I'm all in with him (I'm not a lover either) until he proves he won't be able to excel in his role given the time and effort.

    For whatever it's worth, there are a lot of inferior guards making a similar amount.
  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    Some people truly hate Lin, but most of Lin's detractors point that you are basically paying him 25 M through three years as if it were a rookie deal. If you we are truly believing that his NY play was some sort of ceilling and not the norm, is it worth 25 M?

    Don't get me wrong, I do like Lin and I do like him to be our point guarde because he is smart enough (he went to Harvard!) to adapt his game and thrive, what I'm trying to say is that at some point I do understand the detractors (NOT the haters) who feel that he is overpaid and we could somehow relocate that salary in two or three players that could also adapt or even fit better in our roster, giving us a more complete roster.

    Right now, I'm all in with him (I'm not a lover either) until he proves he won't be able to excel in his role given the time and effort.

    How much does he worth then, to those detractors?...

  • Cooper says 8 months ago

    I was waiting for someone to say that. Morey is making stuff up to support his player! Lol.

    I was not saying he wasnt right but if you're going to sit there and tell me any player is a great player because their own gm says he's good that's just ridiculous. They have a vested interest for all their players to be seen as good.
  • Cooper says 8 months ago

    Can't face the facts friend? It is true, denial is always easier.

    What was unfactual about my post?
  • ale11 says 8 months ago

    Some people truly hate Lin, but most of Lin's detractors point that you are basically paying him 25 M through three years as if it were a rookie deal. If you we are truly believing that his NY play was some sort of ceilling and not the norm, is it worth 25 M?

    Don't get me wrong, I do like Lin and I do like him to be our point guarde because he is smart enough (he went to Harvard!) to adapt his game and thrive, what I'm trying to say is that at some point I do understand the detractors (NOT the haters) who feel that he is overpaid and we could somehow relocate that salary in two or three players that could also adapt or even fit better in our roster, giving us a more complete roster.

    Right now, I'm all in with him (I'm not a lover either) until he proves he won't be able to excel in his role given the time and effort.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago Morey is filthy lying scum. We all know that.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    it's not like the gm of any team is going to bag on any of his players no matter how poorly they play.

    Can't face the facts friend? It is true, denial is always easier.

  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    it's not like the gm of any team is going to bag on any of his players no matter how poorly they play.


    I was waiting for someone to say that. Morey is making stuff up to support his player! Lol.
  • Cooper says 8 months ago it's not like the gm of any team is going to bag on any of his players no matter how poorly they play.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Well I guess that ends that. Morey's on our side.

  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago By the way, Sports Illustrated already picked up on this AMA conversation with Daryl Morey defending Jeremy Lin. http://nba.si.com/2013/08/16/daryl-morey-jeremy-lin-reddit-ama-houston-rockets-andrew-bynum-kevin-garnett/
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    Morey_says_Lin_can_ball.jpg
    http://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1ki6w2/iam_the_houston_rockets_gm_ama_offseason_addition/


    It's like listening to a broken record. Fans don't want to hear Lin had a real good year. See what all you Lin haters did, you pist off your own General Manager in Daryl Morey!
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    Morey_says_Lin_can_ball.jpghttp://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1ki6w2/iam_the_houston_rockets_gm_ama_offseason_addition/

  • Buckko says 8 months ago


    You didn't say no one in basketball has ever come back from 0-3, you said NO ONE has come back from 0-3. I clearly gave an example in which a professional team went on to win four in a row after falling behind 0-3. Now due to proving my point, you holler semantics to try to the ignore the other fact about how it built momentum causing a easy victory in the next series. Which I then use to form my opinion that the Rockets would have beaten the Memphis Tans given Lin stayed on the bench and let the Rockets win the series with the Thunder.

    Is that how your 2k13 campaign went?
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    I didnt put out alot of stats, I put the ones that are most talked about


    I conveniently ignored free throws to manipulate the truth.
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago


    But you didn't put ts%


    I didnt put out alot of stats, I put the ones that are most talked about
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    That's why I put fg% and eFG%


    But you didn't put ts%
  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago I apologize for taking the bait. I'll try to refrain from getting sucked into nonproductive lines of conversation. So back to the topic.

    Lin will have until the trade deadline to prove his worth. The only way he stays is if he plays good enough to keep. Until then it's speculation.
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    Fg% can be a very misleading measure of efficiency, and you demonstrated that to perfection.


    That's why I put fg% and eFG%
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    I tried to explain this on twitter but its even worse then just the playoffs, his last 2 months in the regular season he didnt shoot over 40% and averaged about 5 turnovers. Thats why I laugh when I hear SUPERSTAR status for James Harden and I try to emphasize this...

    "Just because you take the most shots and your chucking up 20+ shots a game to average 25 ppg, does not make you a SUPERSTAR, defense, and FGE% matter too"

    Jeremy Lin stats for March:
    FG% 48.2%
    3pt% 40.0%
    EFG% 53.9%
    Assists 5.0 per game
    Turnovers 2.9 per game

    IJames Harden: stats for March:
    FG% 38.9
    3pt% 42.2
    EFG% 48.9%
    Assists 6.6 per game
    Turnovers 3.0 per game

    Jeremy Lin stats for April:
    FG% 44%
    3pt% 36.4%
    EFG% 50.4%
    Assists 6.1 per game
    Turnovers 2.6 per game

    James Harden stats for April:
    FG% 39.0%
    3pt% 30.0%
    EFG% 45.8%
    Assists 5.8% per game
    Turnovers 5.1 per game

    Stats say Lin was actually the more efficient player the Harden was the last 2 months of the regular season, and EVERYONE ignored it. Is that to say Lin is the better player, NO, its just stating the past 2 months.

    Lin wasn't more efficient. You're ignoring free throws.
  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    You didn't say no one in basketball has ever come back from 0-3, you said NO ONE has come back from 0-3. I clearly gave an example in which a professional team went on to win four in a row after falling behind 0-3. Now due to proving my point, you holler semantics to try to the ignore the other fact about how it built momentum causing a easy victory in the next series. Which I then use to form my opinion that the Rockets would have beaten the Memphis Tans given Lin stayed on the bench and let the Rockets win the series with the Thunder.

    Why are we discussing baseball?

  • Steven says 8 months ago

    Facts? Assumptions are not facts. Here are some facts for you that you might not know

    1) Basketball is different than baseball
    2) Nobody knows what would have happened. It's your opinion.
    3) Opinions are NOT facts.

    God, you sucked me in again. I may disagree with your chosen role on this board, but you are a highly effective troll. There's no denying that.

    You didn't say no one in basketball has ever come back from 0-3, you said NO ONE has come back from 0-3. I clearly gave an example in which a professional team went on to win four in a row after falling behind 0-3. Now due to proving my point, you holler semantics to try to the ignore the other fact about how it built momentum causing a easy victory in the next series. Which I then use to form my opinion that the Rockets would have beaten the Memphis Tans given Lin stayed on the bench and let the Rockets win the series with the Thunder.
  • Cooper says 8 months ago In reality the thunder were just a better team overall, even if Lin was healthy and Greg smith played less the best we get is to game 7.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago


    The Boston Red Sox were down 0-3 and were down a run in the ninth against the greatest closer of all time. 2 weeks later "The Idiots" finished off their sweep of the St. Louis Cardinals. Not only has it been done, it would have propelled the Rockets over the Tans into the WCF. But because of Jeremy Lin (with help from Greg Smith) we didn't get to see the I-10 WCF series.

    FYI never done in basketball, we would had never beat the thunder in the series and everyone agrees.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago Facts? Assumptions are not facts. Here are some facts for you that you might not know

    1) Basketball is different than baseball
    2) Nobody knows what would have happened. It's your opinion.
    3) Opinions are NOT facts.

    God, you sucked me in again. I may disagree with your chosen role on this board, but you are a highly effective troll. There's no denying that.
  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    Sorry facts bother you.

    It more of the nonsense bothers people. :rolleyes:

  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    Duh! As is 10 other Rockets and 300 NBA players.

    Duh....

  • Steven says 8 months ago

    Irrelevant comparison
    Irrelevant assumptions
    Irrelevant post

    Sorry facts bother you.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago

    The Boston Red Sox were down 0-3 and were down a run in the ninth against the greatest closer of all time. 2 weeks later "The Idiots" finished off their sweep of the St. Louis Cardinals. Not only has it been done, it would have propelled the Rockets over the Tans into the WCF. But because of Jeremy Lin (with help from Greg Smith) we didn't get to see the I-10 WCF series.


    Irrelevant comparison
    Irrelevant assumptions
    Irrelevant post
  • Steven says 8 months ago


    HARDEN IS BETTER THEN LIN.


    Duh! As is 10 other Rockets and 300 NBA players.
  • Steven says 8 months ago


    It didn't make a difference if he had played or not. Sure we got momentum for a couple games but nobody has comeback from 0-3 and we were outclassed by the thunder.


    The Boston Red Sox were down 0-3 and were down a run in the ninth against the greatest closer of all time. 2 weeks later "The Idiots" finished off their sweep of the St. Louis Cardinals. Not only has it been done, it would have propelled the Rockets over the Tans into the WCF. But because of Jeremy Lin (with help from Greg Smith) we didn't get to see the I-10 WCF series.
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    *note to self., just ignore them...even though I just said "Is that to say Lin is the better player, NO, its just stating the past 2 months."

    I think when Harden grows and Lin grows as a team with D12, with Parsons, with Asik,.. as a TEAM, all players become more efficient.

    I pointed out 2 months, so what? Lin outplayed Harden for 2 months, its no big deal, Harden was the better player the other months. Harden is THE better player, there's no disputing that. You need me to say it again? HARDEN IS BETTER THEN LIN. We clear now?

    What I AM saying is that you cant just put players together look at number and that's how they will play. Names on paper is all it is. Thats what this past season was all about. Building a core and teamwork. In all reality, Lin will be more efficient along with Harden and vice versa in their 2nd yr. Adding Dwight is going to make it easier for BOTH of them and Parsons will continue to be even more efficient.

  • thenit says 8 months ago Ei lins first 5 games were better than any player since the merger, and now I can compare him to Jordan lbj etc. let Lin play speak for itself instead of putting up pro Lin stats. The same can be said to anit Lin proponents. It's easy to cherry pick stats. Just saying
  • Cooper says 8 months ago


    My thoughts on Mchale are known. There are no more excuses. He either performs or gets canned.


    Lot of pressure on him to get Howard to fit with the team.
  • thenit says 8 months ago I'm a big proponent of Lin but you are taking things out of context. You have to factor in fts in effiency and who you are guarded by.
    Lin IMO is a good player who can create shots, but in evey argument you keep bringing up superstars to compare with Lin. That's just loses my confidence in your arguments. Especially when you keep reverting to in no means do I mean x player is worse or on par with Lin.
    People are set in their opinions and you won't convince anyone. Sorry bro

    Ps I'm on your side just trying calm this debate.
  • Cooper says 8 months ago You can single out 2months of any players career that are poor and make them look like not a star.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago Lin improved while Harden got worse. There's no denying that.
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    Dang harden wasn't even shooting 40% FG and he averaged almost 5 TO per game. Those stats aren't pretty.

    I tried to explain this on twitter but its even worse then just the playoffs, his last 2 months in the regular season he didnt shoot over 40% and averaged about 5 turnovers. Thats why I laugh when I hear SUPERSTAR status for James Harden and I try to emphasize this...

    "Just because you take the most shots and your chucking up 20+ shots a game to average 25 ppg, does not make you a SUPERSTAR, defense, and FGE% matter too"

    Jeremy Lin stats for March:

    FG% 48.2%

    3pt% 40.0%

    EFG% 53.9%

    Assists 5.0 per game

    Turnovers 2.9 per game

    James Harden: stats for March:

    FG% 38.9

    3pt% 42.2

    EFG% 48.9%

    Assists 6.6 per game

    Turnovers 3.0 per game

    Jeremy Lin stats for April:

    FG% 44%

    3pt% 36.4%

    EFG% 50.4%

    Assists 6.1 per game

    Turnovers 2.6 per game

    James Harden stats for April:

    FG% 39.0%

    3pt% 30.0%

    EFG% 45.8%

    Assists 5.8% per game

    Turnovers 5.1 per game

    Stats say Lin was actually the more efficient player the Harden was the last 2 months of the regular season, and EVERYONE ignored it. Is that to say Lin is the better player, NO, its just stating the past 2 months.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago My thoughts on Mchale are known. There are no more excuses. He either performs or gets canned.
  • Losthief says 8 months ago

    Dang harden wasn't even shooting 40% FG and he averaged almost 5 TO per game. Those stats aren't pretty.

    its predictability...which i think...is a coaching failure...but thats another thread :P (p.s. i like mchale...he helped us get dwight...and Asik's Improvement last year in comfortability and scoring on offense is any sign....im excited for that aspect...but he wasn't a impressive tactician).

  • Buckko says 8 months ago


    i think if you re-read what i wrote...that was the whole point.

    Also, I agree with Bukko on the series, Lin was not the difference. The games we won harden shot (fga) the least he did in the series (had the lowest assists too)...but bascially the ball was flowing around the team offensively. (his free throws were there lowest too before you say anything about that making up for it). Every game we lost he shot 20+ attempts except that first one when he shot 19 times still.

    I believe that we lost that series when we lost our scoring balance and they were able to key in on our periphal players. And, frankly we didn't have enough reliable offense sets/options/players to compete with a defense the caliber of OKC. The lost of westbrook seemed to me to hurt them way way more on that end than on offense where durant and reggie did a good job making up for his loss, and we won 2 games and came close to 2 more cause of it. But, we lost the series because we were predicatable offensively...and good teams with good defenses figure out how to stop predictable offenses.

    here's hardens game log: http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3992/james-harden

    Dang harden wasn't even shooting 40% FG and he averaged almost 5 TO per game. Those stats aren't pretty.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Two incompletes = F.

    And yes I'm a fortune teller. I learned from Miss Cleo.

    What I did see was that the Rockets had found their stride in games 4&5. They had found the proper rotation and the PGs were attacking. Then Lin stuck his nose in the team's business and messed it all up.

    It didn't make a difference if he had played or not. Sure we got momentum for a couple games but nobody has comeback from 0-3 and we were outclassed by the thunder.

  • Losthief says 8 months ago

    I understand your point but how can you "produce" if your INELIGIBLE to produce because your injured?


    i think if you re-read what i wrote...that was the whole point.

    Also, I agree with Bukko on the series, Lin was not the difference. The games we won harden shot (fga) the least he did in the series (had the lowest assists too)...but bascially the ball was flowing around the team offensively. (his free throws were there lowest too before you say anything about that making up for it). Every game we lost he shot 20+ attempts except that first one when he shot 19 times still.

    I believe that we lost that series when we lost our scoring balance and they were able to key in on our periphal players. And, frankly we didn't have enough reliable offense sets/options/players to compete with a defense the caliber of OKC. The lost of westbrook seemed to me to hurt them way way more on that end than on offense where durant and reggie did a good job making up for his loss, and we won 2 games and came close to 2 more cause of it. But, we lost the series because we were predicatable offensively...and good teams with good defenses figure out how to stop predictable offenses.

    here's hardens game log: http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3992/james-harden

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago

    Imma take your advice, just ignore people


    Sometimes it's hard to do.
  • Steven says 8 months ago Two incompletes = F.

    And yes I'm a fortune teller. I learned from Miss Cleo.

    What I did see was that the Rockets had found their stride in games 4&5. They had found the proper rotation and the PGs were attacking. Then Lin stuck his nose in the team's business and messed it all up.
  • thejohnnygold says 8 months ago

    OK, just finished reading through all of these posts. I suddenly feel compelled to don my "moderator's cap".

    (...puts on cap...)

    First, let's try to keep the swearing out of it--it only escalates the emotionality of the discussion. Thank you Buckko for trying to stifle it as well.

    Second, this is not the "Shout at Each Other About Jeremy Lin Because I'm Right and You're Wrong" thread. I would like to remind everyone that here at Red94 we are dedicated to trying to maintain a higher standard of Forum. We try to keep civil and informed discourse as the norm.

    Fair or not, if somebody wants to judge Jeremy Lin on his playoff performance they are entitled to. Feel free to offer a well-thought out expression of why that may or may not be a valid, or useful, perspective. If another poster still disagrees shouting at them will not effectively change their mind--trust me.

    On a positive note, I am enjoying the energy and spirit everyone is bringing to the forum. Let's all try to remember to keep to the higher standard both in the quality of our posts and in the respect we keep towards each other.

    Thanks, and carry on.

    (...removes cap...)

    As a Rockets fan, Lin's playoff performance was disappointing. Like TTDN said, I think he deserves an incomplete.

  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    Lol. There's no excuse for him playing poorly. However, I would give him an incomplete rather than a failing grade.

    On another note why are people arguing about it? If there's one thing we've learned is that blind hate and blind homerism can never see eye to eye. It's why I no longer debate with some on this board.


    Imma take your advice, just ignore people
  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago Lol. There's no excuse for him playing poorly. However, I would give him an incomplete rather than a failing grade.

    On another note why are people arguing about it? If there's one thing we've learned is that blind hate and blind homerism can never see eye to eye. It's why I no longer debate with some on this board.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago


    Ain't that a problem. His team has made the post season both years an he has played an entire series how many times? 0 for 2. He is batting 1.000 when it comes to missing games when the team needs him most. And then the team is winning and has momentum and he decides that he is "healthy" enough to play and guess what happens, they lose. If he would have stayed on the bench, the Rockets would have won the series. But Nooooo, we all got to watch him lead the Rockets to defeat in the Toyota Center.

    We would've lost that series if Jeremy played or not.
  • Cooper says 8 months ago


    Ok so Lins total assessment is based on one playoff game correct? Is the topic about Assessing Jeremy Lins 1 playoff game" or is it "Assessing Jeremy Lin" meaning as a whole? Your ignorance is killing me here, which is it?


    Your blind homerism is killing yourself. I've never said and no one else on here ever said Jeremy Lin overall was bad soley because he sucked in the playoffs. But grading his PLAYOFF performance alone is just off that one game and when he tried to come back too early and was bad in both cases that's all we have of him in the playoffs besides sitting on the sidelines in a suit so what the hell else do you want anyone to assess his playoffs off of? He did a great job cheerleadjng in a suit?
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago Ok so Lins total assessment is based on one playoff game correct? Is the topic about Assessing Jeremy Lins 1 playoff game" or is it "Assessing Jeremy Lin" meaning as a whole? Your ignorance is killing me here, which is it?
  • Cooper says 8 months ago The rest of the team went on to have good games though, lins entire playoff record is that one game so what eslse are we supposed to assess lins playoff ability/prowess by?
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    Oh in sorry I thought this was the Assesing jermey Lin part 1 thread my mistake. And oh my everyone played bad so give jeremy lin an excuse and dont talk about him playing bad in the Assesing jermey Lin part 1 thread and instead talk about the whole team. oh and When you only play one full game in a series it's his series playing bad is playing bad.


    Like you said, this is Assessing Jeremy Lin. Not "let's judge Jeremy Lin by one game/series"
    And FYI, I brought up everyone else's stats to counter what Lin gets bashed for the most which is his one playoff game. I said he was pathetic that game. JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE ONE HIS TEAM
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    Ain't that a problem. His team has made the post season both years an he has played an entire series how many times? 0 for 2. He is batting 1.000 when it comes to missing games when the team needs him most. And then the team is winning and has momentum and he decides that he is "healthy" enough to play and guess what happens, they lose. If he would have stayed on the bench, the Rockets would have won the series. But Nooooo, we all got to watch him lead the Rockets to defeat in the Toyota Center.


    It's a problem but its not necessary his fault. Again, when Westbrook went down, who on OKC BLAMED Westbrook? NO
    When Derrick Rose tore his ACL in the playoffs, do you think the BULLS Fans BLAMED DERRICK ROSE? NO
    "If Jeremy Lin would have stayed on the bench, the Rockets would have won the series" so your a fortune teller now? YOUR 1000% sure that would have happened right?

    You seem to glance over my previous post about how EVERYONE ELSE did that 1st game, go read it
  • Cooper says 8 months ago

    EVERYONE PLAYED BAD IN THAT 1st GAME!!!
    Jeremy Lin: 1-7, 4pts, 4 assists, 4 turnovers! He was pathetic!
    James Harden: 6-19, 20 pts (on less then 30% shooting) 2 assists, 2 turnovers Even MORE pathetic cause no SUPERSTAR Should shoot under 30%!
    Chandler Parsons: 4-11, 0 assists, 9 pts! He was pathetic too!
    Patrick Beverley: 4-10, 4 assists, 11 pts, Not bad AGAINST A BACKUP POINTGUARD In Reggie Jackson!

    Defense gave up 120 points! But EVERYONE POINTS OUT JEREMY LIN HAD A BAD GAME RIGHT?

    1 game DOESN'T MAKE A SERIES!

    Make no damn sense!

    Oh in sorry I thought this was the Assesing jermey Lin part 1 thread my mistake. And oh my everyone played bad so give jeremy lin an excuse and dont talk about him playing bad in the Assesing jermey Lin part 1 thread and instead talk about the whole team. oh and When you only play one full game in a series it's his series playing bad is playing bad.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago Hey guys calm down and chill out on the cursing.
  • Steven says 8 months ago


    I understand your point but how can you "produce" if your INELIGIBLE to produce because your injured?


    Ain't that a problem. His team has made the post season both years an he has played an entire series how many times? 0 for 2. He is batting 1.000 when it comes to missing games when the team needs him most. And then the team is winning and has momentum and he decides that he is "healthy" enough to play and guess what happens, they lose. If he would have stayed on the bench, the Rockets would have won the series. But Nooooo, we all got to watch him lead the Rockets to defeat in the Toyota Center.
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    I think no matter good or bad they said about Lin. Like the discussion earilier, those general NBA OPNION might not referece worthy at all.


    True
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    lin's production was bad because of the injury, thats true and logical, however saying hes a bad player overall because of how he played that playoff series is illogical and patently false. (He could still be good ir bad in your opinion, but using the playoffs as the measuring stick isnt fair)
    Its just like after tony parker messed his leg up and wasnt the same after game 3 of the finals everyone stopped talking about him as one of/the best pg in the league (i think he is 3rd but he was getting deserved mentions). He didnt get worse talent wise overall all of a suddeb, just production went down cause if injury and he had an (relatively for him) bad end to the series, but people let that change there overall perception of tony as a player.


    I understand your point but how can you "produce" if your INELIGIBLE to produce because your injured?
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    Holy shit guys I never said he was a bad player. But when you play bad and get hurt in a series it's a bad series. WESTBROOK PLAYED WELL BEFORE HE GOT HURT.. LIN PLAYED BAD IN THE GAMES HE DID PLAY SO ITS A BAD SERIES THAT'S NOT A DIFFICULT CONCEPT.


    EVERYONE PLAYED BAD IN THAT 1st GAME!!!
    Jeremy Lin: 1-7, 4pts, 4 assists, 4 turnovers! He was pathetic!
    James Harden: 6-19, 20 pts (on less then 30% shooting) 2 assists, 2 turnovers Even MORE pathetic cause no SUPERSTAR Should shoot under 30%!
    Chandler Parsons: 4-11, 0 assists, 9 pts! He was pathetic too!
    Patrick Beverley: 4-10, 4 assists, 11 pts, Not bad AGAINST A BACKUP POINTGUARD In Reggie Jackson!

    Defense gave up 120 points! But EVERYONE POINTS OUT JEREMY LIN HAD A BAD GAME RIGHT?

    1 game DOESN'T MAKE A SERIES!

    Make no damn sense!
  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    On an off topic note:
    Lol so I posted on twitter today, "if your gonna tweet, tweet with some sense if your making an argument, otherwise your just f'n annoying"

    Anyways back to the topic, "Assessing Jeremy Lin" I think from the Reloaded video, he's dedicated on working that left hand, getting stronger, faster. When that day comes, his left is just as strong as his right? He's going to be a PROBLEM. His outside shot is pretty consistent, 3 pt shot is legit according to the last 3 months. If his name wasn't Jeremy Lin, if it wasn't the first Asian American in the NBA, the perception would be, HE'S GONNA BE REALLLL GOOD!


    Here's Ian O'Conner last yr about his perception of Lin, talking o Stephen A Smith in NY.
    http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8660698

    Then after the Knick game at MSG on First Take, Dtephen A Smith talking about Lin and what he can be in the future.
    http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8758872

    I think no matter good or bad they said about Lin. Like the discussion earilier, those general NBA OPNION might not referece worthy at all.

  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    Holy shit guys I never said he was a bad player. But when you play bad and get hurt in a series it's a bad series. WESTBROOK PLAYED WELL BEFORE HE GOT HURT.. LIN PLAYED BAD IN THE GAMES HE DID PLAY SO ITS A BAD SERIES THAT'S NOT A DIFFICULT CONCEPT.

    Lin did not play bad for his 5th and 6th Qs in his FIRST playoff.

  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    You're not making a logical point.

    On an off topic note:
    Lol so I posted on twitter today, "if your gonna tweet, tweet with some sense if your making an argument, otherwise your just f'n annoying"

    Anyways back to the topic, "Assessing Jeremy Lin" I think from the Reloaded video, he's dedicated on working that left hand, getting stronger, faster. When that day comes, his left is just as strong as his right? He's going to be a PROBLEM. His outside shot is pretty consistent, 3 pt shot is legit according to the last 3 months. If his name wasn't Jeremy Lin, if it wasn't the first Asian American in the NBA, the perception would be, HE'S GONNA BE REALLLL GOOD!


    Here's Ian O'Conner last yr about his perception of Lin, talking o Stephen A Smith in NY.
    http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8660698

    Then after the Knick game at MSG on First Take, Dtephen A Smith talking about Lin and what he can be in the future.
    http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8758872
  • Cooper says 8 months ago Holy shit guys I never said he was a bad player. But when you play bad and get hurt in a series it's a bad series. WESTBROOK PLAYED WELL BEFORE HE GOT HURT.. LIN PLAYED BAD IN THE GAMES HE DID PLAY SO ITS A BAD SERIES THAT'S NOT A DIFFICULT CONCEPT.
  • Losthief says 8 months ago lin's production was bad because of the injury, thats true and logical, however saying hes a bad player overall because of how he played that playoff series is illogical and patently false. (He could still be good ir bad in your opinion, but using the playoffs as the measuring stick isnt fair)

    Its just like after tony parker messed his leg up and wasnt the same after game 3 of the finals everyone stopped talking about him as one of/the best pg in the league (i think he is 3rd but he was getting deserved mentions). He didnt get worse talent wise overall all of a suddeb, just production went down cause if injury and he had an (relatively for him) bad end to the series, but people let that change there overall perception of tony as a player.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago


    You're missing the point! What isn't bad about a playoff series that involves a bad game and getting injured?

    You're not making a logical point.
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago


    You're missing the point! What isn't bad about a playoff series that involves a bad game and getting injured?

    Well that's a dumb point, cause its a coincidental issue that occurred. You can't control when your gonna get injured. Plus he didn't play a "series" he played about a game and a 1/2. Ok so by your point, Westbrook had a BAD SERIES right?

    Ask ANY OKC fan, "DID Westbrook have a bad series?! "

    DERRICK ROSE! You SUCK! You had a BAD YEAR CAUSE YOU WERE RECOVERING FROM INJURY.
  • Cooper says 8 months ago

    You can get hurt in ANY game, your point?


    You're missing the point! What isn't bad about a playoff series that involves a bad game and getting injured?
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    Playing one bad game then getting hurt is bad.


    You can get hurt in ANY game, your point?
  • Cooper says 8 months ago Playing one bad game then getting hurt is bad.
  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    Lots of things in the sports articles are now especially in this era of social networking in media are SOLD to the general opinion. SOLD as in, if the general population is feeding into a certain story, im going to make a story just like it because its what the General population BELIEVES. The more people you have following what your story tells, the better off the reporter is. I.e. hits on Bleacher Report ( which 99% of the stories on there are generally biased anyway, YES EVEN THE GOOD JEREMY LIN STORIES THAT FAVOR HIM)

    Example: Rahat's tweet this morning

    "contract-wise he's (Parsons) far and away the way the best (contract) in the league. I'm talking recent reception by fans/media as some ascending star"

    "I love Parsons, (so do I) but by advanced metrics, the media's new popular narrative of him being some 3rd star is absurd. great glue guy though"

    And Rahat is right, that's the MEDIA'S PERCEPTION, not going by statistical evidence, but more on what he did RECENTLY in the playoffs which sticks to the PUBLIC EYE meaning US, that he CAN be this 3rd star. Even though by RAPM metrics, it tells you different.

    It's the same thing as the MEDIA'S PERCEPTION, Lin had a bad playoffs. He had a bad GAME, he got INJURED. He didn't PLAY. Bt that's not the catchy thing to believe, when you can just say LIN HAD A BAD PLAYOFFS. to me I'm like how can you have a bad playoffs when you weren't even really in it?

    Thats my point.

    Well said, exactly what I meant. :lol:

  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    I doubt those writers will actually bet their money on what they say about players. We just simply do not know a lot of things that we thought we know.


    Lots of things in the sports articles are now especially in this era of social networking in media are SOLD to the general opinion. SOLD as in, if the general population is feeding into a certain story, im going to make a story just like it because its what the General population BELIEVES. The more people you have following what your story tells, the better off the reporter is. I.e. hits on Bleacher Report ( which 99% of the stories on there are generally biased anyway, YES EVEN THE GOOD JEREMY LIN STORIES THAT FAVOR HIM)

    Example: Rahat's tweet this morning

    "contract-wise he's (Parsons) far and away the way the best (contract) in the league. I'm talking recent reception by fans/media as some ascending star"

    "I love Parsons, (so do I) but by advanced metrics, the media's new popular narrative of him being some 3rd star is absurd. great glue guy though"

    And Rahat is right, that's the MEDIA'S PERCEPTION, not going by statistical evidence, but more on what he did RECENTLY in the playoffs which sticks to the PUBLIC EYE meaning US, that he CAN be this 3rd star. Even though by RAPM metrics, it tells you different.

    It's the same thing as the MEDIA'S PERCEPTION, Lin had a bad playoffs. He had a bad GAME, he got INJURED. He didn't PLAY. Bt that's not the catchy thing to believe, when you can just say LIN HAD A BAD PLAYOFFS. to me I'm like how can you have a bad playoffs when you weren't even really in it?

    Thats my point.
  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    Lol OMG see this is why I never join forums, so you have one "writer" that says Canaan is better, if you were a writer, there would be 2 writers, woopty f'n doo da! And how much credibility does this writer have? OMG I got a headache now

    I doubt those writers will actually bet their money on what they say about players. We just simply do not know a lot of things that we thought we know.

  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    @Huq, both Part 1 and 2 were very well written and analyzed. I wish more sports "analysts" actually gave insightful analysis stuff instead of just regurgitating what they read or heard from elsewhere.

    "In example, now, you’re taking an $8million cap hit on a player whom you hope can shoot 40% on 3's for the year. Does that really make sense when you can most likely have someone who definitely can shoot at that accuracy but at a fraction of the cost? (e.g: Aaron Brooks or one of many other options)."

    I definitely agree with your overall conclusion that it doesn't make sense to pay $8 cap if you're not going to utilize Lin's skills and just have him shoot 3s. Just like to point out that 40% is not that easy to achieve. Brooks only shot 37% and 30% the past 2 years.


    I said this during the first 25 games of the season last yr. why pay 25 mill to a guy your gonna have stand there and be a spot up shooter when you know that's not his game. You put everyone else on the team in a position to succeed EXCEPT for the one guy you promoted when you signed him, had huge press conferences for, and had a coach that did NOTHING to utilize him to his skillset.
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    I've never heard of that site. That's like quoting wikipedia in a college research paper.


    EXACTLY
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    Even national writers agree with me. Canaan is a better PG then Lin.

    http://www.straighthoops.com/dwight_howard_to_rockets.html


    Lol OMG see this is why I never join forums, so you have one "writer" that says Canaan is better, if you were a writer, there would be 2 writers, woopty f'n doo da! And how much credibility does this writer have? OMG I got a headache now
  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago Also Brooks has not looked very good at all the last few years. I won't say he's washed up but he's definitely in the washing machine.
  • rocketswin says 8 months ago

    @Huq, both Part 1 and 2 were very well written and analyzed. I wish more sports "analysts" actually gave insightful analysis stuff instead of just regurgitating what they read or heard from elsewhere.

    "In example, now, you’re taking an $8million cap hit on a player whom you hope can shoot 40% on 3's for the year. Does that really make sense when you can most likely have someone who definitely can shoot at that accuracy but at a fraction of the cost? (e.g: Aaron Brooks or one of many other options)."

    I definitely agree with your overall conclusion that it doesn't make sense to pay $8 cap if you're not going to utilize Lin's skills and just have him shoot 3s. Just like to point out that 40% is not that easy to achieve. Brooks only shot 37% and 30% the past 2 years.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    I've never heard of that site. That's like quoting wikipedia in a college research paper.

    Agreed.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago

    Even national writers agree with me. Canaan is a better PG then Lin.

    http://www.straighthoops.com/dwight_howard_to_rockets.html

    I've never heard of that site. That's like quoting wikipedia in a college research paper.

  • Losthief says 8 months ago

    Even national writers agree with me. Canaan is a better PG then Lin.

    http://www.straighthoops.com/dwight_howard_to_rockets.html

    it'd be pretty sweet if your right, though i think we might have different definitons of what 'better than Lin' means, if he is than thats good for both of us however we feel about Lin. So let's hope your right buddy.

  • Steven says 8 months ago Even national writers agree with me. Canaan is a better PG then Lin.

    http://www.straighthoops.com/dwight_howard_to_rockets.html
  • NorEastern says 8 months ago

    Parsons is the best defender besides our centers in the lineup, his performance is very underrated and he's a much better defender than lin.

    I would agree with you if this discussion was after the 2011-2012 season. But I cannot find any metrics that support your position for the 2012-2013 season except for the time he spent at the PF position. And that was mismatch heaven for the Rockets.

    And I am terrible at spelling. Where is the spell checker here?

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    I think that maybe Howard's offensive acumen will free up some energy in
    the wing players next season. I would love to see Harden's ppg drop 4
    points and his defensive effort improve by 30%. The same with Parsons.
    Lin's defensive effort is always 100% IMHO, but perhaps the addition of
    Howard's offense will free up the other wings to expend more energy on
    defense.

    I actually think they are in good hands with McHale and his coaching
    staff. With Morey in the background of course. With a training camp to
    prepare (the last one was completely blown up 2 days before the season
    started) and Howard I am very optimistic about the Rockets defense next
    season.

    Parsons is the best defender besides our centers in the lineup, his performance is very underrated and he's a much better defender than lin.

  • NorEastern says 8 months ago

    He's one of top scorers and the best SG in the league but he's still terrible on defense.

    I think that maybe Howard's offensive acumen will free up some energy in
    the wing players next season. I would love to see Harden's ppg drop 4
    points and his defensive effort improve by 30%. The same with Parsons.
    Lin's defensive effort is always 100% IMHO, but perhaps the addition of
    Howard's offense will free up the other wings to expend more energy on
    defense.

    I actually think they are in good hands with McHale and his coaching
    staff. With Morey in the background of course. With a training camp to
    prepare (the last one was completely blown up 2 days before the season
    started) and Howard I am very optimistic about the Rockets defense next
    season.

  • Losthief says 8 months ago

    Deron used to be good laterally but he's gained a good bit of weight and slowed down the past year or so

    the ankles injuries zapped him too, i used to play odp level soccer as a marking back (which is all lateral quickness and agility) and after my knee went the first time i developed recurring ankle injuries trying to compensate. The knee i could handle...i was slower but I could still turn and cut just as fast...the ankles...that was the end of me playing good marking defense.

  • Cooper says 8 months ago


    I think Deron Williams has great lateral movement but pgs get past him with ease, so I wonder if lateral movement is really the issue. Honestly I think Lind defense is fine.


    Deron used to be good laterally but he's gained a good bit of weight and slowed down the past year or so
  • Cooper says 8 months ago When it comes to defending guys like Westbrook it is more about the team D as a whole than individual Westbrook will beat anyone one on one off the dribble he's more athletic than anyone in the league besides lebron or maybe wall.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago


    I was trying to be nice.

    He's one of top scorers and the best SG in the league but he's still terrible on defense.
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    Harden is terrible on defense so it's not hard to be twice as good as him


    I was trying to be nice.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    I would say Lin isn't great laterally, he needs to improve on that and no matter how much I support Lin, I won't say he's twice as good as Harden on defense. What I CAN say is that Lin gives MAXIMUM effort whether it be enough or not. But he NEVER slacks off when it comes to hustling.

    I'll add on that what I see Lin working on this summer will be his explosiveness going left. He gets that down? You can't stay in front of him. His outside shot will be better. You don't really need a killer crossover when you have initial burst. He has one of the deadliest first steps in the game and any basketball analyst will tell you that. If he gets that left hand down to a tee, as good as his right? He WILL be UN-GUARDABLE. THAT'S what I'm looking forward to. But we'll see.

    Harden is terrible on defense so it's not hard to be twice as good as him
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    That is extremely valuable to this team due to them being the top team in pace and fast break points so its not overrated.


    Great point
  • Buckko says 8 months ago


    Fast is overrated in basketball unless on a fast break. Quickness and horizontal movement are more important.

    That is extremely valuable to this team due to them being the top team in pace and fast break points so its not overrated.
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    Deron is not a great defender by any stretch of the imagination, plus he slacks off on D. I know cause I'm in ny and I watch almost every knick/nets game


    Agreed, my point exactly.
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago Deron is not a great defender by any stretch of the imagination, plus he slacks off on D. I know cause I'm in ny and I watch almost every knick/nets game
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago I think Deron Williams has great lateral movement but pgs get past him with ease, so I wonder if lateral movement is really the issue. Honestly I think Lind defense is fine.
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    I think you misinterpreted what I said. I was referring to Westbrook blowing past defenders with the ball and getting a shot off. Westbrook will leave every guard in the league in the dust at times. Just some more than others.

    To be honest, no PG could actually "shut down" another pg 1v1. It's such a spread PnR league, you have to have great team defense, instead of 1 individual defender. Lin can't stop Westbrook, Parker, Curry, D.Rose 1v1, but then again, neither of them can shut down Lin 1v1. Plus with the hand checking rules diff. then the old days, It's extremely hard for any pg to totally shut down another pg. Lin put up 29 against Westbrook, 38 and 21 against Parker, 28 and 21 against Curry but its not cause they can't defend, it's because of the way the NBA is played now. It's all PnR and TEAM defense.

    I remember when Lin was with the Knicks, and they played the Bulls. Hubie Brown and Mike Breen were calling the game (for those that don't know Hubies a Hall of Fame coach) and Mike Breen said "everyone is talking about lin getting outplayed but such and such pg, is it him getting outplayed, or is it the team? Hubie said "its TEAM, it's a PnR league and all about TEAM defense. He can't defend by himself I'd he's getting picked all the time."
  • NorEastern says 8 months ago

    Actually no Westbrook would not leave Lin in the dust. Lin actually has faster "acceleration" then Usain Bolt
    Full link... http://thebamboxscore.com/2012/02/29/more-linsights/

    I think you misinterpreted what I said. I was referring to Westbrook blowing past defenders with the ball and getting a shot off. Westbrook will leave every guard in the league in the dust at times. Just some more than others.

  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    Fast is overrated in basketball unless on a fast break. Quickness and horizontal movement are more important.


    lin has the quickness, it's his lateral movement he needs to work on a bit.
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    But his agility is not as great. Turning on a dime to follow your man is hard and that's where Lin struggles, but he's still twice the defender Harden is.

    I would say Lin isn't great laterally, he needs to improve on that and no matter how much I support Lin, I won't say he's twice as good as Harden on defense. What I CAN say is that Lin gives MAXIMUM effort whether it be enough or not. But he NEVER slacks off when it comes to hustling.

    I'll add on that what I see Lin working on this summer will be his explosiveness going left. He gets that down? You can't stay in front of him. His outside shot will be better. You don't really need a killer crossover when you have initial burst. He has one of the deadliest first steps in the game and any basketball analyst will tell you that. If he gets that left hand down to a tee, as good as his right? He WILL be UN-GUARDABLE. THAT'S what I'm looking forward to. But we'll see.
  • Steven says 8 months ago Fast is overrated in basketball unless on a fast break. Quickness and horizontal movement are more important.
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    Its true, if he had attended the 2010 combine, he would've had the fastest 3/4 court sprint. He's faster than Kyrie at top speed too.


    Not to mention, Morey said on 60 minutes...
    "Daryl Morey says Lin has the fastest acceleration they've ever measured and is by far the fastest on the team."
  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago But his agility is not as great. Turning on a dime to follow your man is hard and that's where Lin struggles, but he's still twice the defender Harden is.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Actually no Westbrook would not leave Lin in the dust. Lin actually has faster "acceleration" then Usain Bolt
    Full link... http://thebamboxscore.com/2012/02/29/more-linsights/

    Its true, if he had attended the 2010 combine, he would've had the fastest 3/4 court sprint. He's faster than Kyrie at top speed too.

  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    Repeat after me: "Slow short point guard who can't finish in traffic. Slow short ...".

    But thinking about it I would be elated if your projection comes true. If the Rockets snagged a point guard who fits like a glove with Harden in the second round all of the Rockets fans will be cheering him on. I just really don't think it is likely. How could he guard the better point guards in the league. They are going to be taller and much faster. Lin is really fast and 6'4", but a Westbrook will leave him in the dust at times.


    Actually no Westbrook would not leave Lin in the dust. Lin actually has faster "acceleration" then Usain Bolt
    Full link... http://thebamboxscore.com/2012/02/29/more-linsights/
  • NorEastern says 8 months ago

    Did you watch a single game that Canaan played in college? I did. By the end of the year, after he destroys the D-League and Lin is traded at the deadline, Canaan as the starter will be the best acquisition during the season. He won't be "running the point" for Hardin will have the ball in his hands the majority of the time. What he will do is stand at the top of the key and knock down the open 3. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But the last two people I went out on a limb for (before Jones) was Asik and Hardin. I'm sure you can find where I said Hardin would average 25:5:5 right after the trade.

    Repeat after me: "Slow short point guard who can't finish in traffic. Slow short ...".

    But thinking about it I would be elated if your projection comes true. If the Rockets snagged a point guard who fits like a glove with Harden in the second round all of the Rockets fans will be cheering him on. I just really don't think it is likely. How could he guard the better point guards in the league. They are going to be taller and much faster. Lin is really fast and 6'4", but a Westbrook will leave him in the dust at times.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Did you watch a single game that Canaan played in college? I did. By the end of the year, after he destroys the D-League and Lin is traded at the deadline, Canaan as the starter will be the best acquisition during the season. He won't be "running the point" for Hardin will have the ball in his hands the majority of the time. What he will do is stand at the top of the key and knock down the open 3. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But the last two people I went out on a limb for (before Jones) was Asik and Hardin. I'm sure you can find where I said Hardin would average 25:5:5 right after the trade.

    Trust me man we will be seeing a lot more of Brooks before Canaan ever steps on the court. Also Canaan is just a pure shooter with nothing else, he has no other assets.

  • Steven says 8 months ago


    Saying you are comfortable with Canaan playing point guard is saying you know absolutely nothing about basketball. A short, relatively slow second round pick in a bad draft class running the point guard on a Rockets team featuring 2 superstars. Sounds like a fabulous idea if you are a Lakers fan. I personally will be surprised if Canaan is not cut before the end of the season to free up a roster spot for a veteran who can contribute.


    Did you watch a single game that Canaan played in college? I did. By the end of the year, after he destroys the D-League and Lin is traded at the deadline, Canaan as the starter will be the best acquisition during the season. He won't be "running the point" for Hardin will have the ball in his hands the majority of the time. What he will do is stand at the top of the key and knock down the open 3. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But the last two people I went out on a limb for (before Jones) was Asik and Hardin. I'm sure you can find where I said Hardin would average 25:5:5 right after the trade.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    When Lin is traded I will be fully confident in Canaan as the backup PG behind Bev to start the season before taking it over by the end of the year.

    Still need to work on those jokes man. Its like you're throwing bricks out your mouth.

  • NorEastern says 8 months ago

    Saying you are comfortable with Canaan playing point guard is saying you know absolutely nothing about basketball. A short, relatively slow second round pick in a bad draft class running the point guard on a Rockets team featuring 2 superstars. Sounds like a fabulous idea if you are a Lakers fan. I personally will be surprised if Canaan is not cut before the end of the season to free up a roster spot for a veteran who can contribute.

  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago Saying your comfortable with Canaan is like driving blind. You have no idea what he can do on an NBA level.
  • BrentYen says 8 months ago

    When Lin is traded I will be fully confident in Canaan as the backup PG behind Bev to start the season before taking it over by the end of the year.

    I disagree.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago Lol.
  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    When Lin is traded I will be fully confident in Canaan as the backup PG behind Bev to start the season before taking it over by the end of the year.

    I agree

  • Steven says 8 months ago When Lin is traded I will be fully confident in Canaan as the backup PG behind Bev to start the season before taking it over by the end of the year.
  • RYLIU says 8 months ago

    @NorthEaster

    Very valid points. If we had to trade Lin, it's hard to feel comfortable with Bev(can't create office) or Brooks (no defence) at the helm. Steve Nash is another one who had to adjust to playing with a dominate SG. In this interview with Grantland, Nash commented on having to adjust to more of a catch-and-shoot guy (see section spot-up jumpers). Seem like it took toward end of season for Nash to be better at it also. For team-first professionals like Nash and Jeremy who puts in the effort, it's totally feasible; it just takes time.

  • RYLIU says 8 months ago

    @NorthEaster

    Very valid points

  • NorEastern says 8 months ago

    I have a different take on the Lin subject. Guards are called point guards when they have control of both the ball and the offense. When Harden was aquired Lin's contributions had to change because you never take the ball out of the hands of an elite guard like Harden. Playing next to Harden is going to deflate any point guard not named Chris Paul. Maybe even Chris Paul.

    However, Harden is not a point guard. Neither is Kobe nor Wade. The Lakers and the Heat have traditionally skimped in the point guard area, populating their backcourt with sub-par players. The Heat are fine because of LBJ and the Lakers are now fine as long as Nash remains healthy. The Rockets are fine because they heve two potentially above average point guards on the roster.

    But back to Lin. He suddenly needed to remake his game after the acquisition of Harden. Not an easy thing to do. However he handled the situation like a pro and went out and worked on becoming a different basketball player. Lin did not need to be taller, quicker or more intelligent. Those things cannot be changed. He needed to improve certain basketball skills which is certainly achievable. And he did show excellent progress during last season. He is a smart and hardworking pro and there is absolutely no reason to believe that he will not continue to progress. After the all star break he performed as an above average point guard.

    And if the Rockets did trade Lin would you be comfortable with a depth chart of Bev, Brooks and Canaan? I certainly would not. And if you were to look for a point guard what would you look for? I would look for someone just like Lin with a better 3 point shot and fewer turnovers. A slightly improved Lin. A driving guard is such a threat because it incredibly stresses the opponents interior defense. The reason for the interior defensive stress is because many point guards have a big man with good hands that also can take a soft ally-oop pass and stuff it. I may love Asik as a player, but no one would attribute those skills to him. Howard however is the best in the league in those areas. Much better than Chandler who worked well with Lin in New York. Next season I do not see Lin having a problem during penetration of the defense.

    I do take umbrage at the insinuations that McHale is somehow "using" Lin wrong. McHale is the polar opposite of dictatorial head coaches like D'Antonio and JVG. He is known for working with both players and staff. Last season McHale had probably the best assistant coaches in the league. He also had in the background a 900 pound gorilla named Morey. To even suggest that McHale misused Lin is ludicrous because you can be sure that both his staff and Morey were also on board. And that amount of basketball IQ is rarely wrong when they have a starters season to work with.

    And finally to perhaps the worst critisism of them all. Lin's playoff performance. As a mathematician I can assure you that the sample size is to small to even draw a faint notion from it. Much less a conclusion.

  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    I'm going to reflect my comment about opportunity to another thread which is specifically just proving what Lin can do given that opportunity.

    Jeremy Lin's stats given the Opportunity

    Thanks Rahat, Alituro

  • Alituro says 8 months ago

    @Alituro

    :lol:I don't hate the man....I just don't like him in a Rockets jersey.....BIG difference. I agree with most of your assessment. some seem to think that because I am critic of his that I think he is without some level of talent.....not true. where the problem comes in is I think his faults out weigh his positives.

    Knew you were lurking around somewhere :P. I'm probably one of the only ones here that's more aligned with your opinion of Lin than others. I'm with you Bro. I'm just still holding out hope that he can transform into something he hasn't been yet..

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    @Alituro

    :lol:I don't hate the man....I just don't like him in a Rockets jersey.....BIG difference. I agree with most of your assessment. some seem to think that because I am critic of his that I think he is without some level of talent.....not true. where the problem comes in is I think his faults out weigh his positives.

  • Alituro says 8 months ago



    On another note...People wanna talk about how he had a bad playoffs, well who did have a good playoffs other then Chandler? If you want to say Harden avg'd 26ppg in the playoffs, well lets analyze that FG% 1st GM 31.6%, 2nd 37.5%, 3rd 40.9%, 4th 33.3%, 5th 62.5%, 6th 31.8%, by the way, averaged 4.5TO a game for 6 games. If chucking up a crazy amount of shots cause you have the green light to do so makes you a superstar. I strongly disagree. Beverley had a 1/2 decent playoffs against a BACKUP pg in Reggie Jackson. Lin aint perfect, we all know this but I only ask that if your gonna criticize, let's not over criticize ONE person. People say Lin can't go left but he's improving, how many times you see Harden go right?

    Yes, Welcome to the forum, like our beloved founder said, we all keep it respectful around here. We are criticizing one person, today, because that is what this thread is dedicated to. You will find we all here have our opinions on Lin and they vary from one extreme to another (RBF).

    Lin has a tremendous skill set, but I don't think it's geared to playing PG. What most of us have agreed on, is that Harden and Lin are basically the same style player with similar skills. It's undeniable that Harden's skills are more refined though. Lin looks for his shot first (as 2 guards are wont to do) and looks for open men 2nd (sometimes often in mid-air). These are traits, now that we have offensive power in the post, that we cannot afford to have in our PG. Look at Bev last year in the playoffs for example, he never looked for his own shot, and was even reluctant to take it when he was wide open. He was always looking to make plays and get the other 4 involved before being forced to settle on a shot. Yes, Lin did go off for 38 points in a losing effort in SA. 38 points of me-first ball hogging, not PG play, therefore the loss. We need a playmaker at the point, Lin could be that guy, he's got the brains and physical attributes to be that, but it will need to be taught this summer with immediate results once the season starts (Give him the opportunity). Otherwise we can still use his skills in our 3-guard, small ball sets and as a tremendously formidable back-up to Harden.

  • Rahat Huq says 8 months ago

    Knickabokkaz: welcome to the forum. You'll find that most here are intelligent and respectful.

    As far as your comments on Harden, that has been echoed by myself and many others. The ISOing was one of the biggest problems of last year's team.

    with regards to your last point, that's my central premise. he needs to get an opportunity.

  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    RollingWave: I think you missed my point. I'm not saying Lin should/can be traded directly for someone of better ability. I'm looking at it from an overall, big picture view of the team's finances i.e: if you trade him, you can make other trades taking back more money (with the inherent assumption that the team has a set cap level it does not want to exceed.), or maybe you trade him for smaller parts which in the aggregate, fit better and provide better production. My argument is that his $8million pricetag has value only in the scheme of his actual abilities (driving)...if that ability is shackled, it's not good value and smaller parts composing $8million are better use.

    Secondly, I'm not arguing that this is the preferred route. The optimal route is having McHale properly use Lin. My argument is that trading Lin should be the course in the event this does not happen.


    One thing about Lin in his $8mill a yr price tag is that McHale has to give Lin the "opportunity" to do what he does. To earn that $8mill. I see it this way.

    Harden to me in many ways reminds me of Carmelo Anthony from this perspective. Very good scorer, weak on D, can get the points regardless if a system is built around him or not. My fixture to this whole offense is to let 1 thing happen. Let Jeremy Lin run the team, plain and simple.

    Lin runs the offense while at the same time take the pressure off Harden having to do everything. Harden can then do his job by CLOSING the game with the sufficient amount of energy he needs. Alot of times when Harden does run the team he goes iso dribble dribble and the "offense" stays stagnant watching. Alot of times he can get his own without having to be the option to get his own. At the same time, Lin can prove that he can run a team which I think he can (3 games Harden missed Lin was the primary focus averaging 24/7, so you know he has the ability). D12 will benefit even more because Lin had success with a PnR big man in Tyson Chandler.

    I see alot of things Lin can't do, but there are intangibles that tell different WHEN he runs the show such going back to the 3 games Harden missed, and Linsanity in NY.

    On another note...People wanna talk about how he had a bad playoffs, well who did have a good playoffs other then Chandler? If you want to say Harden avg'd 26ppg in the playoffs, well lets analyze that FG% 1st GM 31.6%, 2nd 37.5%, 3rd 40.9%, 4th 33.3%, 5th 62.5%, 6th 31.8%, by the way, averaged 4.5TO a game for 6 games. If chucking up a crazy amount of shots cause you have the green light to do so makes you a superstar. I strongly disagree. Beverley had a 1/2 decent playoffs against a BACKUP pg in Reggie Jackson. Lin aint perfect, we all know this but I only ask that if your gonna criticize, let's not over criticize ONE person. People say Lin can't go left but he's improving, how many times you see Harden go right?

    The ONLY way to see if Lin is worth 8mill is to utilize him to his strengths and give him the OPPORTUNITY to earn it. NOT by playing him at a position he isn't used to. A GREAT coach puts their players in positions to succeed and use THEIR strengths. I want to see one person on this forum deny that.
  • Rockets fan newton says 8 months ago

    RollingWave: I think you missed my point. I'm not saying Lin should/can be traded directly for someone of better ability. I'm looking at it from an overall, big picture view of the team's finances i.e: if you trade him, you can make other trades taking back more money (with the inherent assumption that the team has a set cap level it does not want to exceed.), or maybe you trade him for smaller parts which in the aggregate, fit better and provide better production. My argument is that his $8million pricetag has value only in the scheme of his actual abilities (driving)...if that ability is shackled, it's not good value and smaller parts composing $8million are better use.

    Secondly, I'm not arguing that this is the preferred route. The optimal route is having McHale properly use Lin. My argument is that trading Lin should be the course in the event this does not happen.

    I completely agree..with more of a assumption that Lin will get his chance to prove he can play with Stars..I really felt like Mchale simply only cared about winning each game and handed the ball to Harden..Bev/Douglas was simply the better fit for Hardens game..a def minded better shooter..now that we have a great second option on off Lin's assist are going to go up(I still feel he is underrated as a passer)..and he will have more space to get to the basket.
    I also believe that trading him for a major up grade or filling holes(still think we need a scorer off the bench) wouldn't be a bad idea..it was clear for most of last year that Mchale is not interested in going through growing pains with Lin..if he didnt produce on a high Lvl he was benched..if that mistake continues then it is a waste of 8.3 salary and Lin should be moved.
    However no one has talked about what happens if God forbid Harden misses time..we won't have a ball handler on the team and rather Dwight admits it or not he is best in the PnR and we wouldn't have one guard on the team that's great at it
    Simply put Lin needs to be on this team and used correctly..he has proven to be a dynamic player in this league if given the right chance..I personally believe that if Lin is on the team when the season starts he will have to many Assists to be taking out of the game..he will be the biggest benefactor of getting Howard..he will average atleast 9 assist this year..protecting Harden should be the main reason for giving Lin his chance..True Dwight will help Harden alot..he still needs a good ball handler to get most of his shots..and if we continue to rely on harden to do 80% of that he will break down again..Lin should and hopefully will get his chance to do more ball handling this year for the teams sake..we will win more games if Lin is allowed to do what he is best at
  • Alituro says 8 months ago

    1st Unit:

    PG: Bev

    SG: Harden

    SF: Parsons

    PF: Jones

    C: Howard

    2nd Unit

    PG: Brooks/Canaan

    SG: Lin

    SF: Garcia

    PF: D-mo/Smith

    C: Asik

    I don't see anything wrong with these lineups especially considering that 2nd unit would be able to beat the bottom of the league's starters. Would also give Lin and Asik an opportunity to work towards 6th man titles and build on their current values (see James Harden). It's also formidable enough to give Harden and Howard sufficient rest, and not force Lin and Asik to step out of their comfort zones to have to learn to play with Them. Of course there will be times where we want to go very small or very big, but those will be fewer and further between. Last year, due to challenges presented by our roster structure, we were constantly being forced to react to match-up problems other teams created for us, this year there will be no such problem and we will become the aggressors, forcing opponents to react to what we put on the floor instead.

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    I have seen some here mention that we should use Lin even at the cost of a few wins so we can better include him......totally disagree. Lin (IMO) either learn how to play with this team or needs to be moved. I don't agree that he is the answer if Hardin gets bottled up.......that's what Howard is for. that's why Morey wanted 2 superstars. when teams focused on Harden last year we had no other place to go......with Howard in tow we now have another place to go preventing a team from putting it's entire focus on Harden.

  • Richards says 8 months ago

    $8million is not too much to spend on a high quality back-up center that enables you to preserve a superstar center throughout the year. $8million is not too much to spend on a high quality back-up SG that enables you to preserve your superstar SG throughout the year.

    Bring Lin in off the bench to log 20+ minutes per game and help preserve Harden. Bring Asik in off the bench for 20+ minutes a game to preserve Howard.

    If we're not able to preserve our superstars by lightening their load a bit until the playoffs, we will be in the same boat as we were with T-mac and Yao. I DO NOT WANT TO BE THERE AGAIN! The $16million spent in helping to prevent such a disaster is well worth it.

    With Asik and Lin heading our second unit, we will be virtually unstoppable for 48 minutes every game.

    The demise of either of our two stars at some point in the year due to injury (maybe due to exhaustion (we play a tiring brand of Bball)) will surely knock us out of any contention conversations.

    Sound reasonable as we are in win-now-mode. But I doubt McHale has gut to do it.

  • Alituro says 8 months ago

    $8million is not too much to spend on a high quality back-up center that enables you to preserve a superstar center throughout the year. $8million is not too much to spend on a high quality back-up SG that enables you to preserve your superstar SG throughout the year.

    Bring Lin in off the bench to log 20+ minutes per game and help preserve Harden. Bring Asik in off the bench for 20+ minutes a game to preserve Howard.

    If we're not able to preserve our superstars by lightening their load a bit until the playoffs, we will be in the same boat as we were with T-mac and Yao. I DO NOT WANT TO BE THERE AGAIN! The $16million spent in helping to prevent such a disaster is well worth it.

    With Asik and Lin heading our second unit, we will be virtually unstoppable for 48 minutes every game.

    The demise of either of our two stars at some point in the year due to injury (maybe due to exhaustion (we play a tiring brand of Bball)) will surely knock us out of any contention conversations.

  • Rahat Huq says 8 months ago

    RollingWave: I think you missed my point. I'm not saying Lin should/can be traded directly for someone of better ability. I'm looking at it from an overall, big picture view of the team's finances i.e: if you trade him, you can make other trades taking back more money (with the inherent assumption that the team has a set cap level it does not want to exceed.), or maybe you trade him for smaller parts which in the aggregate, fit better and provide better production. My argument is that his $8million pricetag has value only in the scheme of his actual abilities (driving)...if that ability is shackled, it's not good value and smaller parts composing $8million are better use.

    Secondly, I'm not arguing that this is the preferred route. The optimal route is having McHale properly use Lin. My argument is that trading Lin should be the course in the event this does not happen.

  • Richards says 8 months ago

    Rahat, your post is spot on. One thing I like to add is, in a very strange way, Lin played very well with TD and Bev while Harden was on bench. The ball movement, team plays, attacks, etc were improved greatly. I hope you may remember this. I can't explain why and haven't seen the stats. This isn't a knock on Harden. Just to point out that Lin plays better with other guards.

  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    Lin's per 36 pre All-Star:
    13.9pts
    6.8ast
    43%fg
    32%3pt
    3.2TO

    Lin’s per 36 post All-Star:

    17.2pts
    6.8ast
    46%fg
    37%3pt
    2.3TO

  • Losthief says 8 months ago

    I like how rahat's conclusion as I read it was that either a) the rockets need to utilize lin more properly, or B) if they refuse to do so (read mchale) morey could move him for a cheaper spot-up point guard. But I think his point was that Lin has the talent to play, but needs to learn more by game action, and so far Mchale and thus the rockets haven't afforded him that oppurtunity, both hurting the rockets and lin respectively, which by the way i agree with rahat on that.

    And then whichever side of the arguement you fall on pro-trading lin, or pro-keeping lin, guys are picking out of his article merely the parts that support there pre-concieved stance. His actual conclusion as quoted "The Rockets need to make Lin more a part of the offense or trade him" says to me more that its a failure of the staff (gm, coach etc etc) to utilize talent rather than an indictment of Lin as a pg talent.

    For a Lin/Harden duo example, I'd love to see some harden setting picks for lin. No way guys leave harden to shoot an open shot, and the potential of either harden getting the ball on the move to the basket against a rotating big or Lin getting a open lane to the hoop because the defenders won't leave harden is salvating to me. And yet, no one says anything about the staff in there arguements in any Lin thread. (other than RW +rep)

    Regardless of last seasons assessment, me personally, I think Lin will have a much more efficent and better year. And it has nothing to do with the staff or harden or even Lin really. It has everything to do with Howard providing such a similar option for Lin that Tyson Chandler did in New York. Howard will catch the ball much much better than Omer (and clean up any miss shots by lin in the paint) and I think Lin will have more alley-ops with Howard via drawing the defenders (which he did well) and then just throwing it up really high near the basket (doesn't have to be a great passer with Howard, he really does get everything near the basket if you draw his defender). This will cut his turnovers because he will have an successful option when he gets to the paint unlike last year with Omer. Success with this will lead to Mchale giving him more burn. The 3pt shooting thing will be a bonus. He shot 62.4% at the rim last year, imagine that of the ~40% missed Howard gets a quarter of them. That effectively makes a Lin paint attack covert at 70+% rate. Thats how having Howard can make a big difference for LIn, and if Howards man is pulled off him by Lin (or Harden if he is the one attacking) I think he gets more than a quarter of the misses too.

  • RollingWave says 8 months ago

    Argument: Jeremy Lin sucks

    Conclusion: let's trade this terrible piece for something SUPER VALUABLE,

    LOGIC!

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    RAPM last year, and salary next year.

    Jeremy Lin : +0.4 8.3M

    Jeff Teague: -0.1 8M

    Jose Calderon -0.4 7M

    Brandon Jennings : -2.5 8M

    so strangely, all these "better options to spend 8m on" actually do cost just as much and did less.

    Huq, I think the general problem with your argument is that your saying that the team is better if they know how to use Jeremy Lin, but maybe they should trade him because they don't know how to use him. that seems like a logical error, wouldn't the answer be "they might wanna figure out how to use him" ? it's like saying I bought this smart phone for 500 bucks, but I don't know this whole 3G thing so I should just sell it right away at a used phone store for 200 bucks and use that money to buy a old 2G phone... that doesn't seem to make much sense to me unless your implying the person is either too old or too stupid to learn things.

    Your argument spin itself a bit when you note that the playoffs showed that the team must have another guard to start plays as well because other wise teams just clamp down on Harden and the team offense dies, and then conclude Lin's the best chance of anyone being able to do that that, but then maybe they shouldn't even bother.... huh?

    Here's some food for thoughts, Jeremy Lin last year was about +2.7 in +/- per 100 possession overall, but he was +2.2 when in a 2 man combination with Harden meanwhile, was a +2.8 overall player per 100 possession, so it's not just that they were not helping Lin with that sort of configuration, they were not helping the team either, given that this 2 man combo was by FAR the most used 2 man combo of the team last year.

    There is some usage issue here that I'm not really sure what McHale is getting at, I raise this example, in Harden's last year on the thunder, he played about 63% of the time with Westbrook, aka 37% without., meanwhile, Lin played 84% of the time with Harden last year,

    So it seemed pretty darn obvious that McHale probably had some other concerns in terms of development that we're not aware of, or he's doing something wrong, I'm going to say it's the former because that's how things usually are. even if you play Lin off Harden a lot, at the end of the day he still need to play with Harden a ton of time... so they need to figure out some things there.

    I won't make this excessively long (which would be if I actually go into detail breaking down his season and play.) but suffice to say that I find.

    1. the logic of his naysayer is truly hilarious. forget about if you properly judge value or not, your judging something of no value yet your assuming they could easily flip said no value things for something that have considerable value. let's trade Lin and Asik for Lebron while we're at it, the money's even!

    2. I find your argument a bit self conflicting Rahat, your conclusion is not the logical conclusion of your argument.

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    Rahat is brilliant. Trade him for a top 55 protected pick. Just have him LEAVE! The Rockets will be a better team. He requires the ball in his hand to actually produce, and the Rockets have 3 better options on the court. That or play him the 12 minutes Harden is not on the court. Don't play him with Harden ever.

    I would like to get more than a top 55 protected, but can't argue the fact that IMO it would be addition by subtraction. I have been arguing all along that the 8.3 mil cap hit can be better spent.

  • Jeby says 8 months ago

    McHale's failure to see the value of having two PnR creators on the floor together (Lin and Harden) is the greatest indictment against him as a coach. Chicago or Miami-style defenses thrive on forcing the ball to a secondary ball-handler on the weak side and forcing him to create. We saw this in the Finals when the ball was forced out of Parker's hands and Leonard had to step up his playmaking. He still came up short.

    Morey could move Lin for another shooter at any time. He hasn't done it. He's smart. Hopefully McHale can get on board.

    I also have to wonder if Harden didn't play just a little selfishly last year, knowing that he needed to cement himself as a superstar to justify his contract, but also knowing the team didn't have a prayer of making noise in the playoffs. Now he (and Howard) are in a situation where stats don't validate them--only wins.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Rahat is brilliant. Trade him for a top 55 protected pick. Just have him LEAVE! The Rockets will be a better team. He requires the ball in his hand to actually produce, and the Rockets have 3 better options on the court. That or play him the 12 minutes Harden is not on the court. Don't play him with Harden ever.

    I think you're missing the point but ok.

  • Steven says 8 months ago Rahat is brilliant. Trade him for a top 55 protected pick. Just have him LEAVE! The Rockets will be a better team. He requires the ball in his hand to actually produce, and the Rockets have 3 better options on the court. That or play him the 12 minutes Harden is not on the court. Don't play him with Harden ever.
  • Red94 says 8 months ago New post: Assessing Jeremy Lin: Part 2
    By: rahat huq

    This post is Part 2 of this series.  You can read Part 1 here, written back on June 25, where I discussed some of Jeremy Lin's weaknesses.  

    The following facts have been stipulated:

    1. Jeremy Lin will effectuate an $8.37million cap hit next season.
    2. Lin shot 34% overall from '3' last season.
    3. In the month of February, Lin shot 42%; for March, he shot 40%.
    4. The ideal guard next to Harden would possess some adequate long-range shooting proficiency. 

    The above points are almost universally undisputed.  From there, things become a bit more unclear.

    Lin's greatest quality is his ability to attack the defense off the dribble, especially in utilizing the pick and roll.  Here in Houston, next to Harden, he's been harnessed, not getting as many opportunities as he did in New York, often relegated to the role of a spot-up shooter.  Lin showed late last year that there's hope for sustained shooting accuracy.  But the circumstances beg the question: if an accurate shooter could be acquired at a cheaper price tag, would it not be smarter salary allocation to simply trade Lin?

    In example, now, you're taking an $8million cap hit on a player whom you hope can shoot 40% on 3's for the year.  Does that really make sense when you can most likely have someone who definitely can shoot at that accuracy but at a fraction of the cost?  (e.g: Aaron Brooks or one of many other options).

    Now the obvious response to that question is that Lin brings many other skills to the table.  Unlike any sweet shooting alternative, he can get to the rim and in fact is among the best in the league in the pick-and-roll.  But does this really matter if he isn't being allowed to attack?

    The critics of Lin often brush the immediately aforementioned reality under the rug, rolling their eyes and hoping that denying its veracity will make it less true.  But to any neutral observer, the situation last year was indisputably clear: out of all of the team's regulars, Jeremy Lin was the one player in whom Kevin McHale had the least faith.  Lin routinely sat on the bench at the end of games, regardless of whether it was Tony Douglas or Beverley playing in his 'stead.  He was routinely the quickest to be pulled when the team got off to slow starts.  He was rarely ever the focal point of attack and in fourth quarters, he rarely handled the ball.*

    (*One interesting thing I noted last season was that after crossing half-court, late in games, if Lin was on the court, he rarely ever set up the play.  This was in contrast to Beverley who, when in the fourth quarter, if not initiating the play, at least was allowed to handle the ball until Harden got free.  I'm not suggesting that this observation is probative of any greater implication, but at the least, it's an interesting nuance of interteammate dynamics.)

    It's been beaten to death whether this shackling was for good cause.  But it happened.  Yet unlike Beverley, Lin is a player who, if given reps in isolation, is capable of production.  If that's the case, shouldn't he be getting them?  After his December 10th explosion against the Spurs where he scored 38 points--a game in which James Harden did not play--I mused:

    Quote:

    In scoring 38 points in his first outing without James Harden, Lin put to rest any doubts regarding his overall ability.  It just simply is not possible that that performance (against the league’s best team) and last year’s Linsanity stretch were flukes.  It just cannot be.  One cannot achieve such heights in such a manner, in that many instances, by mere luck or random chance.  These games are indisputably probative of actual ability.  Jeremy Lin is not elite, but he can be a very good, game-changing player in this league.

    It makes perfectly practical sense to want to keep the ball in Harden's hands as much as possible.  But inevitably, at some point, he's going to get bottled up by a long wing defender.  We saw it against Andre Iguodala and again against Paul George.  It'll happen in the playoffs.  When that time comes, the Rockets need the one other guy on this roster that can create a shot to be ready; they need Lin to already have been fully acclimated as a second option; they need Lin to have already gotten enough reps to be comfortable in the role.  That definitely was not the case last year in the playoffs.

    Aside from staggering Harden and Lin's minutes to the full extent possible, Harden's touches should be reduced with Lin's increased.  Not only will it wet Lin's feet but it will keep Harden fresh for the stretch run (he badly wore down late last year, as we all saw.)  Such tinkering might come at the cost of a few wins early on but it's for the best in the long run.  It's an adjustment that has to be made.

    The Rockets need to make Lin more a part of the offense or trade him.  This isn't some novel suggestion - you'll see it parroted all across the 'web.  But much of those who posit the call do it with just Lin's interests in mind.  I'm saying it in the interests of the Rockets.  It simply does not make sense to keep a player at an $8million cap hit and play him out of role.  You either play him to his strengths or you make better use of that money.  But there are far cheaper alternatives to an $8million spot-up shooting Jeremy Lin.

  • manmythlegend says 9 months ago Adam Morrison shot 43% from 3 pt range as a junior in college. Shot a lot of 30-footers with ease too. Sometimes these stats don't translate in the pros.

    Let's see Canaan play a few pro games first.
  • Steven says 9 months ago


    That's what Lin shot post allstar break. And also if you are gonna throw that type of stat you should know that the college line is closer as well.


    Watch his college highlights before saying stuff. Watch him pull up from 30 feet and drain it like a free throw. He shoots fluidity. He shot 41.9% over his career. So I said he'd drop off 5% points, might be no drop off, then your talking about a league leader type.
  • thenit says 9 months ago

    The PG drafted is better then Jeremy Lin. He can do everything Lin can, plus hit the outside jumper at 37%.


    That's what Lin shot post allstar break. And also if you are gonna throw that type of stat you should know that the college line is closer as well.
  • manmythlegend says 9 months ago Judging from your evaluation of Lin's shooting form that you must have some history of playing or coaching the game at a high level. I'm just a fan so I can't comment on it. I can comment on the hard numbers, and from what I can see he shot 44% overall and 34% overall last season, which included a November when he started the season shooting at 37/25% clips. Guys with purer forms, like Monta Ellis and Brandon Jennings, are teetering on the 40% range for the entirety of their careers.

    I'm not saying he shouldn't continue to tweak his form and make it more mechanically reliable and more aesthetically pleasing. But as the saying goes, You gotta dance with the one who brung ya. It would be more efficient if he worked on his shot selection & his ability to create space for his mid-range game.

    Sometimes changing a shooting stroke can be a detriment to a player. Landry Fields changed his stroke after his rookie season, & he's been horrible ever since.
  • huitlacoche says 9 months ago

    As long as he can get his shot off and can repeat it under pressure, whatever "hitch" or "loop" Lin has can be overcome. Let's be real here, if Lin improves 5 total percentage points in 3's in the next couple of seasons (mind you, this means making an additional 5-6 threes for every hundred attempts), he'll be in the upper class in that regard among pg's.

    Lots of good shooters have some quirky motion that does not hinder them. I seem to remember an espn segment that covered the side spin that Ray Allen had on his 3-ball. Jamaal Wilkes had the loopiest of shooting motions and became of a HoFer.

    OTOH, there are guys that have textbook shooting motions and can't seem to put the biscuit in the basket. This just goes to show that while the shooting motion is important, other factors such as rhythm, distance (straight away 3's vs corner 3's) and confidence are as equally important.

    As for the Tiger Woods reference, part of why I think he tried so many different coaches and swing changes is that he's constantly seeking perfection and is also a little bored. He won majors with each different swing he's incorporated except for the most recent one he's worked on the last two years with Foley.

    But guys with quirky shooting motions like Ray Allen, Kevin Martin, etc., have been dead eye shooters most of their lives. They had already worked out how to be effective shooters, even with their quirks, before they got to the NBA, while they were still developing. They weren't trying to fix a broken shot. If their jumpshots would have hypothetically been ineffective, the first thing their respective NBA shooting coaches would have done is try to fix their form. But their shots were effective despite the quirks, so if it ain't broke....

    In contrast, Lin, who will turn 25 before going into next season, into his 4th season already, is trying to fix a broken shot, and that starts with form. I think it's safe to say he hasn't worked out how to work around his shooting quirks to be an effective shooter. Time to get rid of those quirks.

    There are several things wrong with his form, but the most glaring thing is that his stroke takes too long because it's too loopy. He starts his shot with the ball near his knees, arms nearly straight, when the ball should be close to his body near his belly, or higher, with arms bent. Then as a result, on the backstroke he swings the ball in an arc too far away from his body, instead of holding it close in a tighter, quicker arc. He also takes a pronounced knee dip right before starting to bring the ball up from his knees, which just adds more moving parts (i.e. room for error) to the shot.

    Kawhi Leonard changed his form to shorten up his stroke. Lin should, too.

    That's just Lin's shooting stroke. As for his handles, I think they are what they are, unfortunately.

  • Steven says 9 months ago


    All I know about Canaan comes solely from his draftexpress video, nothing else. But based on that vid, he is a good shooter, but likes to shoot a lot, has poor shot selection, poor court vision, is turnover prone, and doesn't play defense. And he's small. So no, he's no threat to Lin or Bev, imo.


    Canaan had the same problem as Parsons did coming out of college. He had to be the man, instead of just a cog in the machine. If he didn't score, Murray State didn't win. He might be short, but he stout and quick enough to guard the PGs. Come playoff time he will play more minutes then Lin.
  • huitlacoche says 9 months ago

    The PG drafted is better then Jeremy Lin. He can do everything Lin can, plus hit the outside jumper at 37%.

    All I know about Canaan comes solely from his draftexpress video, nothing else. But based on that vid, he is a good shooter, but likes to shoot a lot, has poor shot selection, poor court vision, is turnover prone, and doesn't play defense. And he's small. So no, he's no threat to Lin or Bev, imo.

  • Steven says 9 months ago The PG drafted is better then Jeremy Lin. He can do everything Lin can, plus hit the outside jumper at 37%.
  • RollingWave says 9 months ago

    There is nothing left to be said that has not been said,if someone's going to scream trade trade trade suck suck suck a gazillion times (we'll they're half way there anyway) with no regards to any arguments or actually take time to look into objective comparisons then what's the points.

    The final words is essentialy

    1. Lin has his flaws but also has a pretty dramatic strength, if you believe he can overcome his flaw then he's good if you believe he can't then he's not. simply as that. most NBA players are like that, including most hall of famers not named Lebron of MJ. those guys become great because they overcome their flaws.

    2. Believing that Patrick Beverley is some sort of Answer whilst believing that Jeremy Lin is not shows a worrisome lack of understanding on the NBA.

    3. The Odds of Lin getting traded isn't zero, but if he was so useless as the folks who assume him to be, he couldn't be traded anyway.

  • manmythlegend says 9 months ago

    It's pretty late in the game to expect Lin, at his age, to suddenly develop the handles of a legitimate NBA starting point guard. Ball handling is developed from the time you're young. Instincitve, fluid handles are the basis for iso moves, so it's no wonder he's currently lacking in the iso move department as well.

    Shooting, on the other hand, as we've seen with many examples, can still be improved at this stage, provided that your form allows for it. If Lin doesn't redo his quirky, loopy shooting form, I don't see his jumper improving much. His best bet is to pull a Tiger Woods and overhaul his whole swing from the ground up, but it doesn't seem like he nor his shooting coach are going this route.

    Getting both areas up to par seems like a daunting, unlikely task.


    As long as he can get his shot off and can repeat it under pressure, whatever "hitch" or "loop" Lin has can be overcome. Let's be real here, if Lin improves 5 total percentage points in 3's in the next couple of seasons (mind you, this means making an additional 5-6 threes for every hundred attempts), he'll be in the upper class in that regard among pg's.

    Lots of good shooters have some quirky motion that does not hinder them. I seem to remember an espn segment that covered the side spin that Ray Allen had on his 3-ball. Jamaal Wilkes had the loopiest of shooting motions and became of a HoFer.

    OTOH, there are guys that have textbook shooting motions and can't seem to put the biscuit in the basket. This just goes to show that while the shooting motion is important, other factors such as rhythm, distance (straight away 3's vs corner 3's) and confidence are as equally important.

    As for the Tiger Woods reference, part of why I think he tried so many different coaches and swing changes is that he's constantly seeking perfection and is also a little bored. He won majors with each different swing he's incorporated except for the most recent one he's worked on the last two years with Foley.
  • huitlacoche says 10 months ago

    It's pretty late in the game to expect Lin, at his age, to suddenly develop the handles of a legitimate NBA starting point guard. Ball handling is developed from the time you're young. Instincitve, fluid handles are the basis for iso moves, so it's no wonder he's currently lacking in the iso move department as well.

    Shooting, on the other hand, as we've seen with many examples, can still be improved at this stage, provided that your form allows for it. If Lin doesn't redo his quirky, loopy shooting form, I don't see his jumper improving much. His best bet is to pull a Tiger Woods and overhaul his whole swing from the ground up, but it doesn't seem like he nor his shooting coach are going this route.

    Getting both areas up to par seems like a daunting, unlikely task.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 10 months ago

    I don't see a problem here. Morey is just doing his job. There were obviously teams looking for PGs (Utah, NO, etc.) If Morey thought he might be able to pry Ryan Anderson, or the #6 pick, or whatever from NO then he's going to pick up the phone--I would too. Would you offer Lin + T-Rob for Jrue Holiday (plus some expiring salary)?

    You're thinking about it...that's the point....you have to at least kick the tires on that...

    Exactly. The only thing I dislike about this scenario is it brings out the fanatical lovers of JLIN(not any on this site that I know of) and the fanatical haters(there are a few). If we could have gotten Jrue Holiday I think you make that trade. I don't think Jrue has a higher ceiling than Lin but he's better right now and can shoot better than Lin at this point so would work better as an offguard.

  • thejohnnygold says 10 months ago

    I don't see a problem here. Morey is just doing his job. There were obviously teams looking for PGs (Utah, NO, etc.) If Morey thought he might be able to pry Ryan Anderson, or the #6 pick, or whatever from NO then he's going to pick up the phone--I would too. Would you offer Lin + T-Rob for Jrue Holiday (plus some expiring salary)?

    You're thinking about it...that's the point....you have to at least kick the tires on that...

  • manmythlegend says 10 months ago

    ClutchFans.

    Thanks.

    Apparently the Jeremy Lin trade scenarios have been bouncing around since March:

    http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_130311.html

  • Steven says 10 months ago


    CF?


    ClutchFans.
  • manmythlegend says 10 months ago

    There's a frenzy on CF over these Tweets..... FWIW.................


    CF?
  • rocketrick says 10 months ago

    I hope we hear Czar Stern say this tomorrow. "And we have a trade. Jeremy Lin is going to .... For the rights to (name your second round pick here.)

    Too bad. Morey is no idiot.

    Lin detractors live for more days to complain on this board.

  • rockets best fan says 10 months ago

    @pharmag

    actually I like it. miller will be good at getting howard the ball and running the team. the combo of him bev and canaan might be just what we need

  • pharmag says 10 months ago

    Nevermind...went to all that work and it looks like Denver traded their drafterd C to Utah and grabbed a PG in late 2nd. Still could be a possibility, but not as likely.

  • pharmag says 10 months ago

    Bear in mind, this is assuming Lin and Asik not used in sign & trade for Dwight, and the team is looking for a way to clear cap

  • pharmag says 10 months ago

    Twitter rumor....... Rockets want to dump Lin's salary..............

    https://twitter.com/MarkDeeksNBA/statuses/350394420044103680

    Intriguing thought...I came up with this interesting trade scenariohttp://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ntw4aht

    I know it seems a little odd, but bear with me. I think its relatively obvious why this deal is good for Rockets, so lets start with Denver.

    Denver is shaking up their roster a little bit. Iguodala has opted out, they traded Koufas for Darrell Arthur, etc. Denver has shown they are a team that likes to push the tempo, but their back up PG is 37. JLin pushes the tempo as well and I think would be a good pairing with the guard combo of Lawson and Chandler. Robinson is a top #5 draft pick who hasn't had a chance. The resulting line-up would look like this for Denver

    PG Lawson/Lin

    SG Chandler/Lin/Fournier

    SF Gallinari/Faried/Q. Miller

    PF Randolph/Arthur/Robinson

    C McGee/Randolph/Gobert

    That is 11 players and they are right around the salary cap (have two RFAs that they could resign to get to 12).

    As for the Rockets, this trade lets them shed 5.5 million in cap opening up room for Howard signing. Sure the Rockets like to run to and Andre Miller doesn't exactly fit our system any better, but his money is only guaranteed for the upcoming season and we are going to want a PG in return in any trade. The result is 6.5 million coming off the books after 2013-2014 season (Miller and Royce) which can be used for whatever necessary. Also, Jordan Hamilton fills our need for a back-up small forward. With this we can trot out a squad as follows:

    PG Bev/Miller

    SG Harden/Anderson

    SF Parsons/Hamilton

    PF Jones/DMO/Smith

    C Howard/Asik/Ohlbrecht

    Not the most ideal trade, but if we decide to move Asik at trade deadline to free up more cap space, we could have 14.5 million to play with in 2014 FA. I spent a long time looking for option, and Utah is what I thought of first and it could still be a possibility, but with Burks & Burke (confusion anyone?) at PG who knows...

    Anyway, thoughts? Remember it is all hypothetical.

  • Hockey the Harden Way says 10 months ago

    Interesting if it's true. May be a win-win if it happens. Never heard of the source of the tweet though...

    There's a frenzy on CF over these Tweets..... FWIW.................

  • Rahat Huq says 10 months ago

    ^Yeah, I hear you. Not sure if he has any inside connections....but was just pointing out it wasn't just some random dude.

  • manmythlegend says 10 months ago

    ^That's the writer of shamsports.com, the authoritative source on salary cap projections etc.


    Okay. But does this writer have a history of accurately breaking player news? Not sure if being the authoritative source for salary cap projections means anything other than being the authoritative source for salary cap projections.
  • thenit says 10 months ago

    Rahat so how serious can you take that tweet?

  • thenit says 10 months ago

    I can't see any takers this season because Utah was the only team I could envision Lin go to because they needed a pg but now they got burke.


    However who knows how legit this dude who posted the tweet. It will easier to dump lins contract next year because its an expiring.

  • Rahat Huq says 10 months ago

    ^That's the writer of shamsports.com, the authoritative source on salary cap projections etc.

  • manmythlegend says 10 months ago

    Twitter rumor....... Rockets want to dump Lin's salary..............

    https://twitter.com/MarkDeeksNBA/statuses/350394420044103680


    Interesting if it's true. May be a win-win if it happens. Never heard of the source of the tweet though...
  • Hockey the Harden Way says 10 months ago

    Twitter rumor....... Rockets want to dump Lin's salary..............

    https://twitter.com/MarkDeeksNBA/statuses/350394420044103680

  • Alituro says 10 months ago

    I think this is correct (baring a CP3 acquiring). I still think he has strong potential as a sixth man in the sense that Manu Ginobili and James Harden are/were sixth men. His contract may be a little big, but look at what the Spurs have done with their trio of Parker, Ginobili, & Duncan. If we get Howard, I can see that type of potential. Also, in two years you can decide what to do with him based on what he has become.

    With JLin, if he continues to improve his 3 point shooting, is a guard with a skillset that lets him complement both Harden and Bev. He is not great PG or SG but can play a little of both. When on the floor with Harden, he can spot up, can drive and dish on occassion and can play defense on the better guard. When on the floor with Bev, he can take on more of Harden's role as the main ball handler playing pick-&-roll basketball with the bigs. Minutes can all be based on match-ups/play and you can have your guards average around 32 minutes a piece.

    As has been said JLin has a been a polarizing player, but for all the people worried about TRob coming back to bite us in the ass, I would be more concerned of JLin doing it. He has shown potential, has been successful at times, and has the work ethic and attitude to only get better. As of right now, you can't really say any of that about TRob (not sure on his work ethic/attitude though)

    This pretty much sums up my feelings too. 6th man or primary scorer in the 2nd unit, IMO is the best fit for him, and totally worth the money. For you stats collectors out there, here's a challenge, what are the +/- of our second unit lineups, compared to the starter heavy lineups, what kind of impact would Lin have made on the bench lineups if his numbers are inserted into the formula (Asik too)? If I remember correctly, last season, we suffered our biggest negative point discrepancies during the time spans of Late-1st/early-2nd and late-3rd/early-4th quarters. Suffered to the point of completely negating the positive production from the starters. What that means is that unless the second unit is blessed with a 20+ point cushion, absolutely EVERY team we face has a chance to catch up, and ultimately build their momentum and give them a chance to win EVERY game. If Lin and possibly Asik(?) are anchoring the second unit surrounded by sophomores with high upsides and a summer under their belt, maybe James Andersen too, I think we would be able to weather the storm of bench time much better than past season, maybe even able to add positive production against the majority of benches in the league, and IMO justifies the money paid to the key players in the 2nd unit, especially because they will be able to be utilized at other points in the game as well (Lin, Asik). Let's face it, even if we build our super best friends starting unit around Parsons, Harden, and Howard, if we field a high school unit when they are on the bench, we won't be any better off than last season.

  • autoprt says 10 months ago

    this is a very astute assessment of jlin and i really enjoyed reading it as it was spot on. the thing i have always believed is jlin for now did very well and would do well on a team that there are not many expectations with an opportunity to be a primary scorer or come off the bench and run the 2nd team. a good example is a team like orlando or a lower tier team that offers a very good 3 point shooter he could work with.

    the thing is the rockets tried to compensate for an earlier error in letting jlin go to the knicks and did in my opinion overpay him in terms of salary cap but they are making up the difference in marketing dollars especially from their connections in asia.

    jlin was never a pg but was made to learn to be one on the fly based on situation and is a quick study. he had at one point a good outside shot and then last summer added weight to his upper body which i believe effected his outside shot. over time he is improving this and if he can become more efficient in outside shot in particular 3 pt it will open up other parts of his game.

    in the right situation he has something extra that does not always show in the stats. i say give him a little more time and he will be fine whether it's with the rox or not.

  • rockets best fan says 10 months ago

    I hope we hear Czar Stern say this tomorrow. "And we have a trade. Jeremy Lin is going to .... For the rights to (name your second round pick here.)

    that would be good news

  • pharmag says 10 months ago

    RBF--regarding the $8.3M that Lin eats up....I don't know--we just see this one veeeeeeeery differently :) . I do agree that he isn't a make or break player for the Rockets. I'm confident he will be here for the next 1.5-2 years so we'll have a good idea by then which direction his career is headed.

    I think this is correct (baring a CP3 acquiring). I still think he has strong potential as a sixth man in the sense that Manu Ginobili and James Harden are/were sixth men. His contract may be a little big, but look at what the Spurs have done with their trio of Parker, Ginobili, & Duncan. If we get Howard, I can see that type of potential. Also, in two years you can decide what to do with him based on what he has become.

    With JLin, if he continues to improve his 3 point shooting, is a guard with a skillset that lets him complement both Harden and Bev. He is not great PG or SG but can play a little of both. When on the floor with Harden, he can spot up, can drive and dish on occassion and can play defense on the better guard. When on the floor with Bev, he can take on more of Harden's role as the main ball handler playing pick-&-roll basketball with the bigs. Minutes can all be based on match-ups/play and you can have your guards average around 32 minutes a piece.

    As has been said JLin has a been a polarizing player, but for all the people worried about TRob coming back to bite us in the ass, I would be more concerned of JLin doing it. He has shown potential, has been successful at times, and has the work ethic and attitude to only get better. As of right now, you can't really say any of that about TRob (not sure on his work ethic/attitude though)

  • Hockey the Harden Way says 10 months ago

    Hockey the Harden Way-- you do realize that Lin shot .375% from 3 after the all-star break, right? That is actually a much higher percentage than league average. I think thejohnnygold is on to something in discussing Lin's polarizing effect. When you have a player that can have great games and bad games (with very little in between), proponents on both sides will remember those instances in which he either did well or did poorly, depending on your inclination. I prefer to remember Lin's post all-star performance, when he looked healthier and seemed to have more confidence as the season progressed.

    I realize that.... But during the last month, Lin's defensive play, which I believe had the most impact amongst his contributions to winning games, had faded drastically. His steals were way down, his rebounding was way down, and Pat Beverley during the last month was the better defender. I think the "normal" Lin defensively is better than Beverley. (I suspect he might have been hiding a nagging injury. But if he did, he seems unable to play through it, in contrast to Harden or Parsons.)

    Lin did improve his offensive play later in the season, but it was at the expense of his defensive play.

    In the last Suns game in Phoenix, Goran Dragic absolutely torched him... I was not used to seeing Lin getting torched like that, by ANY player.... I was so disappointed, because we lost to a doormat team, TWICE, late this past season.... Losses that may have cost this club a higher seed for the postseason.

    I happen to be a huge Lin fan, but I'm also a realist. We need a point guard who is comfortable with the "layups and threes" system we utilize. And I'm afraid Lin is not a good fit for this particular system. If Lin ends up being our starter next season, and proves me wrong, I'll be ecstatic to be wrong. But as of now, I'm not optimistic.

  • Steven says 10 months ago I hope we hear Czar Stern say this tomorrow. "And we have a trade. Jeremy Lin is going to .... For the rights to (name your second round pick here.)
  • thejohnnygold says 10 months ago

    JG - I think the fact that he was able to produce so much (15 and 7) despite so many flaws is what's most encouraging. I go into that in Part 2. Mainly why I wish McHale would just give him a chance. He has clear limitations, but I think if he just could have the ball in his hands, we could see what we really have. Otherwise, it's just a waste.

    Alituro - I hope he's doing all of those drills. A great one is dribbling it with one hand while tossing up a tennis ball in the other hand and catching it either underhanded or circling around it with your hand before catching it. This trains the point guard to keep his head up but more importantly, maintain his dribble under duress while concentrating on another task (i.e. a defender.) This is the main thing Jeremy needs to work on, other than his shooting.

    Yes! I totally agree! Watching those two videos I posted above--I see every single criticism against him--they are undeniable--and he is still able to succeed! I am very optimistic about next season for him.

    RBF--regarding the $8.3M that Lin eats up....I don't know--we just see this one veeeeeeeery differently :) . I do agree that he isn't a make or break player for the Rockets. I'm confident he will be here for the next 1.5-2 years so we'll have a good idea by then which direction his career is headed.

    Calvino--you got me all wrong. I've devoted thousands of words in Lin's favor on these forums. In this case, my stance has more to do with the validity of Rahat's critique of Lin. I watched that series and Jeremy Lin, for the most part, looked overwhelmed by the increased speed and pressure of the game. I already acknowledged that I believe he suffered from both the injury and limited playing time which did nothing to help this. That doesn't change the fact that it happened--Rahat focused more on his lack of preparation during the regular season due to McHale's handling of Lin's minutes and role. Your assumptions about me in your post above are unfounded. I already said, if he couldn't go then he shouldn't have been in the game. You seem to have glossed over this point and instead claim that "if he didn't give it a shot, I'm pretty sure you would rip him apart for not showing the appropriate level of confidence and composure". I don't know what else to say. I'm actually on your side of the fence if you read carefully--I am just here to say that I think Rahat's evaluation is valid as he was getting ripped by more than one reader for the article he posted. I wouldn't call myself a Lin-Lover (although I bet some around here would :P ), but I like him and think he is going to succeed in this league--hopefully with the Rockets!

  • calvino says 10 months ago

    thejohnnygold -- I think it's incredible that you would penalize a guy who had a serious injury that limited his mobility for not showing the level of composure you expected form him. Again, his injury was bad enough where he couldn't raise his arms above his head -- how confidently did you expect him to play? I give him credit for showing the fortitude to try to help his team.. if he didn't give it a shot, I'm pretty sure you would rip him apart for not showing the appropriate level of confidence and composure.

  • Rahat Huq says 10 months ago

    JG - I think the fact that he was able to produce so much (15 and 7) despite so many flaws is what's most encouraging. I go into that in Part 2. Mainly why I wish McHale would just give him a chance. He has clear limitations, but I think if he just could have the ball in his hands, we could see what we really have. Otherwise, it's just a waste.

    Alituro - I hope he's doing all of those drills. A great one is dribbling it with one hand while tossing up a tennis ball in the other hand and catching it either underhanded or circling around it with your hand before catching it. This trains the point guard to keep his head up but more importantly, maintain his dribble under duress while concentrating on another task (i.e. a defender.) This is the main thing Jeremy needs to work on, other than his shooting.

  • rockets best fan says 10 months ago

    @JG

    I'm not denying anything about Lin. his play stands on it's own to be judged. I simply don't see the player that most of you do. we can agree about certain aspects of his game and disagree on others, but the fact remains the way we view him is different. Lin won't be the downfall of the rockets nor will he be the savior. he is one player on a TEAM. whether we move him or not it's possible to win with him or without himon the roster with Howard here..... that's not the question. the question in my mind is,can the money he uses under the cap be better spent. the answer to that is YES. 8.3 mil isn't all that much to pay for a guard, but to much to pay for what Lin bring to the table. it's that simply to me. I don't dislike him. I just don't think he is a good player. whether that be due to the system he plays in, the injuries he's had, the ups and downs of a young player or he simply lacks the skill set we can debate all day, but think about this ..........there would be no debate if he exceeded expectation like asik did would there?

  • thejohnnygold says 10 months ago

    I would rate his playoff performance as mediocre at best, but I would add THAT HE WAS INJURED.

    Mediocre? I think even Jeremy would disagree with this as it implies his performance was about average for him--which it clearly was not. For the record, you're preaching to the choir--I agree that he was injured and expecting him to execute good shooting performances with a bum shooting shoulder is silly. That was never the point in question though. It was his composure on the court--and I happen to agree that he never really showed the level of composure we needed from him. Again, he did not get as much playing time because he was hurt--but it does not make it less true.

    RBF--your expectations are just too high. You're implying that Lin must be elite to earn his $8.3M...yet elite PG's earn more than that. There is a discrepancy here. Further, as for not seeing any signs of his improvement from hard work (and improved health) you must have missed my post earlier (#29 above) where I detailed the improvements he made in consistently shooting the ball well. You can discount it if you want, but you can't deny its existence.

  • rockets best fan says 10 months ago

    I would rate his playoff performance as mediocre at best, but I would add THAT HE WAS INJURED.

    welcome to the forum :rolleyes:mediocre would be an upgrade (IMO)........pitiful is more like it......hurt or not Lin stunk in the playoffs. my conclusion on Lin comes more from the regular season than his playoff performance. some hold up mc hale's handling of Lin as reason for his short comings. I disagree. mc hale got the most from Lin (IMO). he didn't close out some games because he simply wasn't producing the type of play that would have allowed us to win. Lin's skill set simply is not a good fit for this team. some point to his work ethic and attitude as reasons he will improve........I simply don't see it....he will always be limited by his level of skill.....Yes he may get marginally better, but not on the level that will make him anything close to elite. if he is unable to reach elite he makes to much money for a sixth man,therefore should be traded

  • calvino says 10 months ago

    I would rate his playoff performance as mediocre at best, but I would add THAT HE WAS INJURED.

  • thejohnnygold says 10 months ago

    It's simply not a valid analysis to say "Lin provided little of anything productive, appearing, if not timid, wildly out of sorts" without mentioning that he was injured. I also disagree with the statement that Lin's performance in the playoffs was predictable. Remember, he scored 29 points against the Thunder when Westbrook was playing. Too much is made of his performance in game 1; Beverly had 6 pts and 0 assists in Game 6, does that mean he was a bust during the playoffs? In the finals, Chalmers had some bad games, including one where he didn't score any points, but does anyone want to make the argument that he wasn't a big factor in Miami winning the championship?

    Here are Lin's game logs from the playoffs from basketball-reference.com:

    dSpnTuK.jpg

    Going beyond these numbers, his usg% went down 14% while his turnovers increased 33% from what his regular season numbers were. These figures support Rahat's notion that Lin was not handling the defensive pressure very well. Meanwhile, his ast% fell by 50% and the fg% listed above, while not helped by his injury, are what we have to judge him by. If he couldn't play he should not have been out there. It was valiant of him to play, but perhaps bravery is not what the Rockets needed. Would A. Brooks have fared better in the 18 and 13 minutes Lin played? Who knows...

    My question is this: what would you say about Lin's playoff performance? You mentioned his 29 points vs. OKC in the regular season. How would you rate his playoff performance?

  • LargeMouthBass says 10 months ago

    Hockey the Harden Way-- you do realize that Lin shot .375% from 3 after the all-star break, right? That is actually a much higher percentage than league average. I think thejohnnygold is on to something in discussing Lin's polarizing effect. When you have a player that can have great games and bad games (with very little in between), proponents on both sides will remember those instances in which he either did well or did poorly, depending on your inclination. I prefer to remember Lin's post all-star performance, when he looked healthier and seemed to have more confidence as the season progressed.

  • calvino says 10 months ago

    It's simply not a valid analysis to say "Lin provided little of anything productive, appearing, if not timid, wildly out of sorts" without mentioning that he was injured. I also disagree with the statement that Lin's performance in the playoffs was predictable. Remember, he scored 29 points against the Thunder when Westbrook was playing. Too much is made of his performance in game 1; Beverly had 6 pts and 0 assists in Game 6, does that mean he was a bust during the playoffs? In the finals, Chalmers had some bad games, including one where he didn't score any points, but does anyone want to make the argument that he wasn't a big factor in Miami winning the championship?

  • Hockey the Harden Way says 10 months ago

    Some of the things he needs to work on this summer: Ball Handling, if I were him, I'd be dribbling two balls anytime I walked anywhere, ala Pete Maravich. He desperately needs work here, seeing that the NBA is his first stint as PG, we should see some obvious improvement as time wears on. He also either needs to lose the hitch on his 3s, or develop the deadly floater (preferably with both hands). A PG doesn't need to be deadly at the 3, just respectable, but if he doesn't have a killer 3, then he absolutely MUST develop a deadly floater. At this point, his defenders don't have to work too hard to render him ineffective, they can give him some space beyond the arc and not have to worry too much, and if he drives, you just force him to go left. The space they are able to give him at the arc, allows them to absorb that killer first step every time, and if that first step is the only thing "killer" about his game, then he's got plenty of work to do.

    In regard to "dribbling two balls", Lin actually has videos showing such practice drills.... Lin's problem is real game situations. As the original article correctly stated, Lin is not particularly good at shielding the ball with the defender on him, or in traffic.

    I'm not sure if Lin is even aware of the "hitch" in his three-point stroke. I personally was annoyed by it. His release also seemed a lot slower this past season than the season prior to that.

    Lin once had a deadly floater.... It was abandoned..... I've speculated the "layups an threes" strategy might be the reason for that, but I don't know for sure. I will say whatever point guard the Rockets do end up with next season, the ability to bury the three is a lot more important for this team than for other teams, only because midrange shooting is so discouraged.

    And finally, Lin on Twitter https://twitter.com/JLin7 claimed in a recent practice he made "78 percent" of his three point shots http://instagram.com/p/a-Pg4YuP1T/# .... I am very skeptical this actually happened (he would need to provide continuous video footage of a large sample of actual shooting to convince me).... And even if this did happen, it would mean absolutely nothing if this fails to translate to at least 38 percent 3-pt shooting IN ACTUAL GAMES next season.

  • thejohnnygold says 10 months ago

    Discussion of Jeremy Lin's weaknesses as a player are totally legitimate. After all, there has been no tougher (or more accurate) critic of his game than Lin himself. He knows what he needs to work on this off-season and I have no doubt that he will do so. But this writer loses all credibility when he criticizes Lin's playoff performance without mentioning THAT HE WAS INJURED. To be clear, Lin had a horrible first game (as did all the Rockets not named Beverly). He had a decent first half of game 2, and then he was injured. The injury was severe enough that he couldn't raise his arms above his head; not ideal for playing competitive basketball at the highest level. To his credit, he fought to get back onto the court (is there any doubt that if he didn't, he would have been criticized for being a slacker?). He wasn't effective, but at least he tried. I think if this author had a similar injury and tried to play in a pickup basketball game, he would be running home to his mommy with tears in his eyes.

    Welcome to the forum, calvino! You're right that Rahat, the author, neglected to mention Lin's injury. I don't think it was intentional--sometimes we have gone over a topic so much here at Red94 we forget and assume certain things are understood--I know I do.

    Here is his quote from the OP:

    "What transpired for Mr. Lin during the postseason was perhaps, with the
    benefit of hindsight, all too predictable. In the few games in which he
    appeared, Lin provided little of anything productive, appearing, if not
    timid, wildly out of sorts. However, it would not be accurate nor
    truthful to conclude that Lin would have fared better had he been given a
    chance to take his lumps earlier on or that the poor showing was direct
    result of McHale’s mismanagement. It could very well be that Lin
    simply doesn’t have it to compete against physical defense. Yet I
    contest that the only way to have truly known would have been to have
    given him a chance. Without those in-season reps, Lin didn’t stand a
    chance in the postseason."

    I think another reason it may have been over-looked is Rahat was looking more at McHale's management of Lin as a possible indicator of Lin's playoff performance. While the injury certainly affected his ability to shoot--this is not the part of Lin's game Rahat was looking at. Certainly, the injury deserves mention and Lin deserves some leeway for it; however, Rahat is not wrong that Lin did look a bit lost. In all fairness, he did not get the necessary court time to catch up and get up to speed like the others did. For me, I withheld judgement on Lin's playoff performance for this reason. I think Rahat's observation--given the context he used it in--is valid and does not reflect anything other than an unpopular opinion. The good news is all signs point to a chance for redemption next season.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 10 months ago All writers give facts that support their argument. The truly great ones try to be as objective as possible. Sub par piece by a good writer.
  • calvino says 10 months ago

    Discussion of Jeremy Lin's weaknesses as a player are totally legitimate. After all, there has been no tougher (or more accurate) critic of his game than Lin himself. He knows what he needs to work on this off-season and I have no doubt that he will do so. But this writer loses all credibility when he criticizes Lin's playoff performance without mentioning THAT HE WAS INJURED. To be clear, Lin had a horrible first game (as did all the Rockets not named Beverly). He had a decent first half of game 2, and then he was injured. The injury was severe enough that he couldn't raise his arms above his head; not ideal for playing competitive basketball at the highest level. To his credit, he fought to get back onto the court (is there any doubt that if he didn't, he would have been criticized for being a slacker?). He wasn't effective, but at least he tried. I think if this author had a similar injury and tried to play in a pickup basketball game, he would be running home to his mommy with tears in his eyes.

  • Stephen says 10 months ago

    For the first part of season Lin was still not fully recovered from his knee injury.

    As he got healthier his play improved.

    As to McHale's usage,esp in first half of season,at end of gams Douglas was a vastly better 3pt shooter and much better defender. Since the Rockets were committed to Harden Hero-ball in crunch time,Douglas made more sense.

    In NY during Linsanity he was the offense. In Houston he's the PG,a world of difference.

    I tend to think Lin's-and the Rockets-biggest issues came from the strategic decision McHale made before Camp opened to not have a structured offense,to go w/a free flowing one.

    When defenses tightened Lin didn't have the comfort of running routine plays where everyone knows their spots. Instead he had to think and look for where the players were-and for young players,thinking is bad,it leads to turnovers and stupid mistakes,ones that a couple of yrs experience will eliminate.

    As a further example,remember the chaos as the rookie PFs tried to replace Pat and Morris. Every other play would see them franticly running from one spot to another as they vainly tried to figure out what the heck was going on.

    As to whether Lin can be a very good PG,I don't know.

    He's having to learn the position and I'm not sold on his court vision.

    I think he can be a good one and the Heat and the Lakers have shown you don't need much at PG to win Titles.

  • thejohnnygold says 10 months ago

    Here's a highlight video from his Linsanity days. I recognize it will ignore any bad plays he made, but I think this video showcases all the things he can do. He hits Chandler multiple times for easy looks (because Chandler can catch those), he shoots from 10-15ft. well, and he shows off some nifty moves (a nice spin move around the 3:45 mark).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iWWFk6TX18

    In this next video you can see him keep a dribble going in traffic (around the :55 mark), a lefty reverse lay-up around 3:10 followed by a crossover against John Wall (which is more Wall's bad defense than Lin's good crossover)...that's most of it--good pick n roll play with Chandler.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLkfORBEm-Y

    The thing is, watching these videos confirms Jeremy's weaknesses--they are plain as day. It also confirms his ability to succeed despite them. As scouting reports get better, so will Jeremy have to improve. I believe he can and will.

  • thejohnnygold says 10 months ago

    My turn :D

    I don't disagree too much with Rahat's assessment of Lin. I will point out that despite all of these limitations Jeremy Lin was able to succeed overall as a 2nd option for the Rockets. He accounted for roughly 1/4 of our total points per game (including assisted shots) on average which i find to be pretty reasonable given Harden's ball-dominant style.

    Check out these numbers:

    games fg%>.500 pre all-star break: 21/55 (38%)

    games fg%>.500 post all-star break: 13/27 (48%)

    games 3fg%>.333 pre-all star break: 27/55 (49%)

    games 3fg%>.333 post all-star break:18/27 (67%)

    (this measure was used because it equates to 1 pps (point per shot) which is a good measure of efficiency.)

    For fairness, let's look at the # of games where he shot below acceptable fg%--I put this at 40%.

    games fg%<40% pre all-star break: 26/55 (47%)
    games fg%<40% post all-star break: 11/27 (41%)

    And some free throw attempts....

    fta's/gm pre-all star break: 178/55=3.24
    fta's/gm post all-star break: 97/27=3.59

    Not much to see here--an 11% increase.

    What caught my eye here--aside from the overall increase in consistently good performances post all-star break is the variance of Lin's shooting. Like Harden--who I have panned for this very thing--there are very few games where Lin actually shoots for average. Instead, he is usually well above or well below. Depending on how one views said player (like vs. dislike) I think this could easily perpetuate itself into selective memory and an overall biased opinion of the player's season. (I am probably guilty of this with Harden as I grew tired of a few of his in-game habits last season).

    Again, Rahat is not wrong about Lin's faults; yet, Lin was able to overcome these. I think we all agree that his work ethic is top notch and the athleticism is there to compete on the NBA level. I see no reason that Mr. Lin cannot become an excellent combo guard for the Rockets. The label of PG is misleading and inaccurate at this point--it forces a standard on Lin that he cannot live up to given his role in the offense and obvious deficiencies skill-wise.

    Lin is not the "square peg" that fits into the "square hole" of PG. He is a capable NBA player that I believe is close to finding his niche in the Rockets' offense and I believe will quiet some of the nay-sayers this year. I think by next season's end the calls to replace/trade him will be all but gone and that $8.3M will look like a good value.

  • Rahat Huq says 10 months ago

    BTW - just to add in, I based all of my observations only upon watching him play last year, with the Rockets. I only caught a handful of games from his time with the Knicks, so I can't comment upon any of that. To me, his problems seemed like a lack of ability. But if people who saw him with the Knicks are saying he had those abilities I said he didn't, then it could be a case of lack of confidence constraining an ability and leading to tentativeness. Either way, I didn't see those things in him last season.

  • Alituro says 10 months ago

    Good article, Rahat... I disagree with the assessment that McHale "mismanaged" Lin, facilitating a drop in his confidence. I would say that Kevin managed Lin properly by keeping his best performers on the floor at all times. If Lin isn't on the floor, then it's due to poor performance, and McHale is doing his job right, managing player confidence or preventing hurt feelings is not part of his job description, IMO.. Any tentativeness as a result is a product of Lin's personality, not a coaching flaw on McHale's part. The good, professional, basketball players use these (r)ejections to fuel the competitive fire in their bellies. It's up to Lin, this offseason to make the corrections to his game to further limit these ejections, if not and he continues respond as he has in the past, he may not have the mettle to be good in this league. Personally, I think he will overcome these shortcomings, in time, and be a good point guard in this league. In the meantime, I put my trust in McHale to put the guys on the floor that give the best chance at winning, player salary and expectations be damned.

    Some of the things he needs to work on this summer: Ball Handling, if I were him, I'd be dribbling two balls anytime I walked anywhere, ala Pete Maravich. He desperately needs work here, seeing that the NBA is his first stint as PG, we should see some obvious improvement as time wears on. He also either needs to lose the hitch on his 3s, or develop the deadly floater (preferably with both hands). A PG doesn't need to be deadly at the 3, just respectable, but if he doesn't have a killer 3, then he absolutely MUST develop a deadly floater. At this point, his defenders don't have to work too hard to render him ineffective, they can give him some space beyond the arc and not have to worry too much, and if he drives, you just force him to go left. The space they are able to give him at the arc, allows them to absorb that killer first step every time, and if that first step is the only thing "killer" about his game, then he's got plenty of work to do.

    I wouldn't call myself a Lin detractor, more of a realist, because I strongly believe he will develop the necessary skills to be a truly good PG in this league. Which begs the question, next season, if we land Dwight, assuming we are rocketing :Dto contention, can we afford to spend the next season developing our PG? Pre-Harden/Howard, of course, but now? PFs too, if we land Howard, would it be wise to try to parlay our young talent into, proven, wily veterans for those positions? Those will be the two glaring weaknesses on our roster. I think we would have to do everything we could for the NOW, screw the future.

  • manmythlegend says 10 months ago

    The Knicks-version of Jeremy Lin played with confidence and reckless abandon (obvious since he was on the cusp of being released by the Knicks prior to Linsanity and had nothing to lose). The Rockets-version of Jeremy Lin plays as if he's constantly under the microscope of his critics.

    Either a change in attitude or scenery is in order for JLin.

  • Hockey the Harden Way says 10 months ago

    I also had a problem with McHale's handling of Lin.... And since McHale isn't going anywhere, I'm not sure the Rockets keeping Lin would be beneficial for either the team or player. I also think there is mass resentment over his contract, and it has soured a lot of Rockets fans. I just think it would be better to trade the player than to hope he improves. And if he does stay, he MUST improve his three point shot. Otherwise, fans will be yelling for Beverley or even Brooks.

    Without those in-season reps, Lin didn’t stand a chance in the postseason.

    Totally agree....

    I’ve posited that Lin possibly has the lowest overall skill level of any starting point guard in basketball.

    Strongly disagree... Lin's skills are mostly between 5 and 15 feet, which was missing in action due to the "layups and threes" strategy. Another reason why both Lin and the Rockets would both be better off with Lin moved or traded.

    Unlike his peers, among deception/change-of-direction moves, Lin only has a standard right-to-left/left-to-right crossover, and a weak one at best.

    When Lin was with the Knicks, someone actually posted a video on YouTube comparing Lin's crossover to Allen Iverson's..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE1WzELMZik What a difference a season (and offensive scheme) makes.

    Lin also does not have hesitation/head-fake moves.

    Once again, he did this with the Knicks.... These moves in most part were mothballed last season.

    What makes Paul, and formerly Steve Nash, so lethal, is that they can keep a live dribble within cramped spaces by using a tight, close dribble. Paul can dip his way around picks, inside the paint, stop, stay low, and reassess the opposing defensive coverage prior to making his decisions. Lin, in contrast, can only blow by initial coverage, maintaining a waist-high handle; he can’t stay low and protect the ball.

    Now I'm back to total agreement..... This is Lin's number one problem. And it seems like it didn't improve at all from the previous season.

    Next season, regardless of what team Lin ends up on, it will be interesting to see how much he improved during this offseason. This could make or break his career.

    Lin can’t keep a live dribble in one spot against a pressing defender.

    Interesting observation....... And I'm inclined to agree. He really has a hard time when trapped by a double team.

    Among Lin’s other flaws are poor fundamentalsand overall lack of variance in his arsenal. He has an awkward hitch tohis shot and most egregiously, he simply cannot drive left.

    Lin can drive left.... He cannot finish left.

    Lin doesn’t have a floater or any unique finishing move.

    Lin had a lethal floater and bank shot from 5 to 10 feet when he played for the Knicks. This was another part of his game that was abandoned, since joining the Rockets.

    The criticisms of Lin are partly accurate, partly inaccurate. But it was a nice article nonetheless. (I'd likely agree with you in greater part had I not seen him play with the Knicks.) This will become moot of Lin gets moved. Which I state again would be beneficial to both him and the Rockets.

  • rockets best fan says 10 months ago

    DANG rahat part 2 is going to blow the lid off :lol:polarizing is a fact when it comes to Lin. you know I agree, but of course I would have bash him a little harder.

  • manmythlegend says 10 months ago After reading that breakdown of Lin by Huq, it's remarkable that Jeremy can even chew gum and walk at the same time.
  • Ostrow says 10 months ago

    I think he was saying that the stereotypes say that Lin shouldn't be athletic and should be smart on the court. I think that's the same way a lot of people look at white people in the NBA (and anywhere else for that matter). I don't know if Lin has pure point guard skills based on this past season because the team was run through it's SG. It is tough for PGs to be great when the SG has the ball most of the time. Look at Steve Nash this year. He struggled because he wasn't used to not having the ball. Nash and Lin's stats (outside of shooting %) are pretty similar on the year. Lin needs to learn how to adjust, hopefully he can do that over the summer w/ Harden. Also, Hopefully this Howard saga ends quickly so out team has a full off-season to get to know each other with or without Howard.

  • Rahat Huq says 10 months ago

    LargeMouthBass: I think my article was a bit confusing in that the middle paragraphs weren't intended as a support for the premise regarding his playoff performance. The middle paragraphs were merely intended as an overall evaluation of his skillset, independent of his production.

  • rocketrick says 10 months ago

    If Lin can't win the starting PG spot, then for sure he needs to be moved. I personally don't see anyone on the current roster that will supplant Lin. No way the Rockets can afford Lin's salary slot as a 6th man/rotation player off the bench.

  • pharmag says 10 months ago

    I have said for a while that I think Lin has "Ginobili" type skills and potential. I do not think he will ever be an elite PG, but I think he shows promise as a combo guard, especially coming off the bench. I think there are two reasons that never really happened: contract and no one else to really take the starting role.

    For reference, Ginobili has averaged 15 pts on .450 shooting (.372 from 3pt) w/ 4 reb, 4 ast, 2 TO in 23 minutes for his career. I hope Bev has shown/shows a lot of growth this offseason and can take over starting PG and allow Lin to be both Bev and Harden's primary backup because I think that is the only way to maximize his skill set.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 10 months ago Lol. We can't argue with facts, but you did not point out that Mchale does not have a PG in this system. If anyone is a PG then it's Harden. I thought Lin improved as an off guard throughout the year. True, going left is not a strength, but I don't think it's as big a weakness as you seem to. You said he shatters racial stereotypes.... Then point out that he relies on his athleticism. Was that a crack at Asian athletes? Then you point out against "complex schemes" he struggles. Was that a stereotype that since he's Asian he should be smarter than other 1st/2nd year players? Why you brought up race at all is confusing. I'm white, but your post came across a little strange. From reading your other posts, I'm sure that it probably wasn't meant that way. But overall a good listing of his weaknesses with a lot of hyperbole thrown in.
  • Johnny Rocket says 10 months ago

    I disagree with Rahat's assessment that McHale mismanaged Lin. McHale and the Rockets have had a very consistent policy regarding young players: We are going to insist on doing things the right way or else you won't play. San Antonio has the same policy, by the way--even now, Parker is still pulled from games when he's playing poorly. I think that policy is ultimately the right one.

    I predict that Lin's career will follow the arc of Mike Conley. With experience and hard work, Lin will become a better than average point guard.

  • thenit says 10 months ago

    I agree with a lot of this except for possibly his ceiling.

    In regards of the playoffs I thought after the injury that Michael shouldn't have let him play at all basically trusting Lin whereas in reg season I believed Michael had no trust in Lin. So maybe as Rahat alluded to is that he might have seen something in Lin.


    I thin there is a 50/50 split and I'm on "lins" side if u can put it like that but I'm more objective I hope than some

  • LargeMouthBass says 10 months ago

    Rahat, I'm confused as to how you expect Lin to have made an impact in the playoffs without any sort of dribble moves and a dearth of skill. The crux of your argument isn't consistent with your opening or closing paragraphs.

    Having said that, I believe you are judging Lin a bit too harshly. Of course, people will have opinions, yet you seem to base much of your argument on Lin's performance in the playoffs. Truth be told, he was pretty awful. However, to use those 4 games in which he played (most of them while he was injured) as a "baseline" assessment I think is unfair. It was his first playoff experience. If Lin detractors will cry that his 20-some-odd games during Linsanity were too small of a sample size to judge his talent and potential, how much less stable of a judgment is one that is based on 4 games?

    I don't buy, for one instant, that one his best days Lin is an "average" guard. To be fair, on his bad days, he is one of the worst guards in the NBA. I won't just point to that 38-point game against the Spurs, but also his string of 20 point games toward the end of the season. He averaged 15 pts and 6 assists after the all-star game and, despite his "hitch", shot a very respectable clip from 3. It baffles me that in a field where columnists and "experts" place so much value on potential and athleticism, that Lin, at 24, is not afforded the same allotment of time to mature. In your article you state that "He shatters racial stereotypes in that his dominant trait is his athleticism. He’s big, sturdy and possesses elite level quickness." Players are drafted into the NBA based on their athleticism and potential. Skills can be easily taught-- you want a player with the physical tools and the mental maturity to work on his game. At 24, Lin somehow managed to at least showcase some of his potential in his stint with the Knicks. To insinuate that he's already finished growing and developing as a player seems just wrong.

  • rocketrick says 10 months ago 1st half, game 2? The last game in the playoffs he was healthy?

    For sure Lin was horrible in game 1. He probably shouldn't have played in any games after being injured just prior to halftime of game 2. However, after being called out by all of the NY Knicks fans for missing the post-season in 2012, he probably didn't want to go down that road 2 years in a row. So I give him credit for trying. He definitely wasn't himself after the game 2 performance. Not that game 2 was great, but certainly he was showing positive signs in the time he was on the floor and was much more himself and much more effective in game 2.
  • Rahat Huq says 10 months ago

    rick: for me, its not about his numbers. the injury affected his shooting, but it didn't have any impact on the fact that he basically looked like a chicken with its head cut off for most parts of the series. that is reflective of simply not being a point guard.

  • rockets best fan says 10 months ago

    When is 2016 Champions coming back out of the penalty box? I'm sure he has something useful to add in the more recent conversations on this site.

    soon...........but in the mean time I guess you have to hold down the fort :lol:

  • rocketrick says 10 months ago

    When is 2016 Champions coming back out of the penalty box? I'm sure he has something useful to add in the more recent conversations on this site.

  • rocketrick says 10 months ago One of these days I'll actually go over and count the pro-Lin posts and negative-Lin posts and I assure you the negative-Lin posts will far outnumber the pro-Lin posts.
  • rockets best fan says 10 months ago

    Take off your rose colored glasses RBF. Someone should take a poll to prove that Lin has more detractors on this site. Is Lin the greatest thing since peach cobbler? Of course not, but I for one am looking forward to seeing what he brings to the Rockets in his second season.

    no rose colored glasses for me......just jump over to the Lin thread and check out how many poster I have debated on Lin. now you know how I feel so the Lin thread didn't get to 25 pages with no Lin supporters

  • rocketrick says 10 months ago Take off your rose colored glasses RBF. Someone should take a poll to prove that Lin has more detractors on this site. Is Lin the greatest thing since peach cobbler? Of course not, but I for one am looking forward to seeing what he brings to the Rockets in his second season.
  • rockets best fan says 10 months ago

    Who are you referring to? Most people on this site are Lin detractors.

    not true..... there's about a 50/50 split here

  • rocketrick says 10 months ago

    very good article rahat. few will accept the reality that Lin is average on his best days.

    Who are you referring to? Most people on this site are Lin detractors.

  • rockets best fan says 10 months ago

    very good article rahat. few will accept the reality that Lin is average on his best days.

  • rocketrick says 10 months ago

    And playing for 2 different coaches in 2 completely different systems in his 2 seasons not to mention just a couple days prior to the start of the second season under a different system and a different coach the Rockets trade for James Harden which changed everything the Rockets were working towards during the preseason.

  • Steven says 10 months ago 2 years playing, two years missed playoff games.
  • rocketrick says 10 months ago I believe Rahat does make some valid points in his breakdown of Lin. However, coming down hard on Lin's post season performance without mentioning the fact he was injured towards the end of the first half of game 2 which basically left him unable to play effectively the remainder of the series is totally unfair. In fact, Lin was having a much better game 2 performance up to the time he was injured which very well likely could have resulted in good overall numbers were he to have played the entire second game. I still maintain to this day that the Rockets could have stolen game 2 at OKC were Lin not injured at the end of the first half of that game which resulted in him not returning to game action. No doubt, Lin totally stunk it up in Game 1 but was much more effective the time he played Game 2 (first half only due to his injury).

    Lastly, I recall Tony Parker constantly being pulled in his early years with Popovich which reminds me somewhat of what Coach McHale may have been trying to accomplish with Lin (tough love).